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07-05-19 09:54 AM
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  1. Platinum_2's Avatar
    I did a search on this and nothing came up. It seems like the Android One concept would be good for BlackBerry Ltd. to adopt. No? If TCL could produce compelling PKB devices in the $400 - $550 range that were guaranteed timely software and security updates for two years it may help sales.

    It seems BlackBerry Ltd., which is responsible for software and updates, has struggled with being consistent with their software updating policy across devices and OS versions. Of course, this is not helping TCL/BBMo.

    To what extent must BlackBerry Ltd. bless a software update before they will release it?

    Just curious, as it seems BlackBerry Ltd. always pursues the most inefficient and difficult method to operating it's business.
    Tsepz_GP likes this.
    06-14-19 03:49 PM
  2. the_boon's Avatar
    Could be a good option for everyone, BB ltd would devote less resources on BBAndroid (since they seem to want to have as little to do with hardware as possible) and lower the BB tax to TCL which could in turn result in cheaper devices.
    06-14-19 03:54 PM
  3. Gene Fells's Avatar
    The question would be how much work is required to implement the PKB into Android One. How quickly can it be done and does it need to be modified / changed for each release of the android one OS.

    Who would do that work - BBMo or Ltd? If Ltd are still involved, what are the delays and the costs?

    Android one is a great idea. It's minimal footprint maximises RAM efficiency. I run a Nokia 6.1 and it is smooth and fast at all times.
    06-15-19 04:04 PM
  4. TgeekB's Avatar
    Android one is a great idea. It's minimal footprint maximises RAM efficiency. I run a Nokia 6.1 and it is smooth and fast at all times.
    I have the 7.1 and it’s the same.
    06-15-19 04:17 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    The question would be how much work is required to implement the PKB into Android One. How quickly can it be done and does it need to be modified / changed for each release of the android one OS.

    Who would do that work - BBMo or Ltd? If Ltd are still involved, what are the delays and the costs?

    Android one is a great idea. It's minimal footprint maximises RAM efficiency. I run a Nokia 6.1 and it is smooth and fast at all times.
    It would be simple to do. BlackBerry Limited would need to provide and support the driver and the keyboard app, unless they choose to spin-off or licence that work too.

    BlackBerry Android is not bloated - it's actually almost completely stock android plus some extra hardening and Integrity Detection - neither of which affect performance in any meaningful way.
    06-15-19 04:21 PM
  6. Platinum_2's Avatar
    It would be simple to do. BlackBerry Limited would need to provide and support the driver and the keyboard app, unless they choose to spin-off or licence that work too.

    BlackBerry Android is not bloated - it's actually almost completely stock android plus some extra hardening and Integrity Detection - neither of which affect performance in any meaningful way.
    Its not that BlackBerry Android is bloated, it's that updates would be delivered more timely and likely longer than with BlackBerry Ltd. at the helm. It seems to me that BlackBerry Ltd. either is unable to update the OS in a timely fashion across BBMo devices, or has little interest in doing so. Either scenario is unacceptable for the consumer.

    BlackBerry Ltd. either needs to embrace their role in all of this, or GTFO and let Google/BBMo manage this.

    No one wants a mid-tier device with a PKB that is expensive to buy and will not be supported to the extent of other, less expensive devices from other OEM's.
    bh7171 likes this.
    06-15-19 05:34 PM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Given all of BB's customizations for the PKB (that don't exist elsewhere), I'm not sure how much it would make a difference, or if it would even qualify for Android One. And there would be much wailing over the loss of BB's upgraded security...
    Tsepz_GP and Jake2826 like this.
    06-15-19 07:44 PM
  8. Platinum_2's Avatar
    Given all of BB's customizations for the PKB (that don't exist elsewhere), I'm not sure how much it would make a difference, or if it would even qualify for Android One. And there would be much wailing over the loss of BB's upgraded security...
    Yeah, not sure what's involved with the keyboard aspect. Sounds like Conite is of the opinion it wouldn't be a big deal?

    As far as security, I'm not convinced it's a valid concern. No one I know has ever had a major security meltdown on their mobile device. As BlackBerry fans, we like to hang on to the security thing, but that's only because there's not much left to hang onto outside of the PKB.

    I would bet that just as many people care about security as those who long for a PKB...

    Truth is, Google is probably committing more resources towards mobile security than BlackBerry Ltd. at this point....

    I vote for Android One.
    Mecca EL and Tsepz_GP like this.
    06-15-19 07:51 PM
  9. Invictus0's Avatar
    Given all of BB's customizations for the PKB (that don't exist elsewhere), I'm not sure how much it would make a difference, or if it would even qualify for Android One. And there would be much wailing over the loss of BB's upgraded security...
    IIRC, Android OEM's are allowed to customize Android One to an extent but it needs to be cleared with Google. That's why Moto One devices support the Moto app, Nokia devices have additional display settings, etc. Android has native support for physical keyboards, I assume BlackBerry's additions come from the Keyboard app?

    That being said, I don't see what incentive there would be for TCL to launch a BlackBerry branded One device when the Palm brand is better suited to it. Nokia and Pixel branded devices seem to be gaining traction in enterprise, I don't see why Palm couldn't either.
    06-15-19 11:18 PM
  10. Platinum_2's Avatar
    That being said, I don't see what incentive there would be for TCL to launch a BlackBerry branded One device when the Palm brand is better suited to it.
    Does Palm have a PKB? No. There's the incentive for TCL.

    Nokia and Pixel branded devices seem to be gaining traction in enterprise, I don't see why Palm couldn't either.
    If Pixel and Nokia are gaining traction in the enterprise space, it would be the result of better pricing, feature set and security/software support (monthly updates, most current OS, etc). I see Google funneling more dollars to security than BlackBerry today in the mobile space.

    As for Palm, let's be serious here. Retail and enterprise customers have been migrating to larger screens, not smaller. And dual carrying is not what most people desire.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    06-16-19 07:41 AM
  11. thurask's Avatar
    The best case scenario is dropping the "hardened Android" (by which we mean flipping kernel switches randomly) facade, switching to Android One, and putting whatever PKB work BlackBerry and TCL have done over the years into upstream Android. That won't happen, because both BlackBerry and TCL are allergic to open source, but that would be nice, since whatever value can be extracted from their PKB efforts can be offered to other manufacturers/the community instead of languishing in a server in China once TCL runs their last cost-benefit analysis of the joint venture.
    06-16-19 08:40 AM
  12. Platinum_2's Avatar
    The best case scenario is dropping the "hardened Android" (by which we mean flipping kernel switches randomly) facade, switching to Android One, and putting whatever PKB work BlackBerry and TCL have done over the years into upstream Android. That won't happen, because both BlackBerry and TCL are allergic to open source, but that would be nice, since whatever value can be extracted from their PKB efforts can be offered to other manufacturers/the community instead of languishing in a server in China once TCL runs their last cost-benefit analysis of the joint venture.
    Hahaha. So true. Nothing like holding onto a perceived gold mine. I get it....they created it, perfected it and it holds a special place in their corporate history.

    Fast forward to reality now...

    Less than 0.005% of mobile phone users are using a PKB. Probably less than 10% of all mobile phone users require (and are actually set up to benefit from) BlackBerry security features. So, it's time to let all of this go now...

    Let Google handle the OS at this point. Most security concerns center around older, unpatched and outdated OS devices, not hardened kernels. Governments have been using non-bb devices for a while now in all but the most highly secure environments.

    I really don't care who remains responsible for PKB software, drivers, etc. BlackBerry Ltd. would be the logical choice since they are handling the BlackBerry software suite.
    06-16-19 12:05 PM
  13. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I really don't care who remains responsible for PKB software, drivers, etc. BlackBerry Ltd. would be the logical choice since they are handling the BlackBerry software suite.
    The problem with that is that BB needs to get paid in order to do any work on that software, and where is that money going to come from? If TCL, what would make TCL want to pay BB - what advantage (meaning: profits) would that gain TCL? And if not TCL, then who?
    elfabio80 likes this.
    06-16-19 12:31 PM
  14. Invictus0's Avatar
    Does Palm have a PKB? No. There's the incentive for TCL.
    Palm as a brand is almost entirely known for PKB devices. TCL has released QWERTY devices via Alcatel so they likely have everything in house to do it.

    If they see any value in the BlackBerry Keyboard I don't see why they couldn't license it but I think it's fair to assume the less they license the cheaper it gets.


    If Pixel and Nokia are gaining traction in the enterprise space, it would be the result of better pricing, feature set and security/software support (monthly updates, most current OS, etc). I see Google funneling more dollars to security than BlackBerry today in the mobile space.
    That's the benefit to a PKB based Android One device that isn't using a licensed brand. It could allow TCL to be competitive with other offerings on the market.
    06-16-19 01:00 PM
  15. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The problem with that is that BB needs to get paid in order to do any work on that software, and where is that money going to come from? If TCL, what would make TCL want to pay BB - what advantage (meaning: profits) would that gain TCL? And if not TCL, then who?
    That’s been the simple problem. If BB couldn’t make the money on it’s own, it’s just that more difficult when two parties have to make a profit.
    06-16-19 01:02 PM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Palm as a brand is almost entirely known for PKB devices. TCL has released QWERTY devices via Alcatel so they likely have everything in house to do it.

    If they see any value in the BlackBerry Keyboard I don't see why they couldn't license it but I think it's fair to assume the less they license the cheaper it gets.




    That's the benefit to a PKB based Android One device that isn't using a licensed brand. It could allow TCL to be competitive with other offerings on the market.
    Treo was the Other PKB hardware back in the day. It was the rival hardware and it makes sense to attempt Palm branded PKB device running Android One just from cost perspective if minimum production numbers are feasible. I’d buy one within reason especially if carrier sold and supported.
    Invictus0 likes this.
    06-16-19 01:07 PM
  17. Platinum_2's Avatar
    The problem with that is that BB needs to get paid in order to do any work on that software, and where is that money going to come from? If TCL, what would make TCL want to pay BB - what advantage (meaning: profits) would that gain TCL? And if not TCL, then who?
    TCL will want to pay BlackBerry Ltd. for keyboard software if they feel BlackBerry Ltd. has the best game in town and that is how they are going to distinguish themselves in the marketplace. Only they can make that determination. If they conclude they can do this and be profitable to a satisfactory standard, then they should do it.

    If not, then all bets are off. Stop paying BlackBerry for their name and software (neither of which has any meaningful clout in the consumer space) and just sell "TCL" phones with PKB keyboards (Alcatel can be their slab line of devices) of their own making and continue to pursue this niche. They could do it with less cost and probably be just as successful with an actual shot at growth. I don't feel the name "BlackBerry" helps them accomplish this objective in any meaningful way. In fact, it likely hurts since most consumers scoff at anything BlackBerry.

    Sure, BlackBerry diehards will be upset, but the "BlackBerry" experience pretty much died with the conclusion of BBOS and BB10. In my opinion, BlackBerry Android has offered little to the market as evidenced by dismal sales.

    So if TCL is going to be niche with low sales, they might as well do so without BlackBerry baggage. It would likely enhance profitability and they would absorb most of BlackBerry's legacy customers anyway since many are already using TCL devices. And, quite happily I might add.

    In summary, TCL needs to consider dropping BlackBerry and manufacture TCL- branded devices with their own PKB and Android One. Then they would have a shot at actually selling a compelling device that is reasonably priced and different from other marketplace offerings. They would also rid themselves of the tainted brand image of BlackBerry. This might actually open the door for growth and further innovation without having the BlackBerry anvil chained to their ankle.

    It appears to me that BlackBerry wants to do nothing and TCL wants to do something.

    Maybe this is the best option for everybody?
    Last edited by Platinum_2; 06-16-19 at 02:44 PM.
    06-16-19 02:16 PM
  18. the_boon's Avatar
    TCL will want to pay BlackBerry Ltd. for keyboard software if they feel BlackBerry Ltd. has the best game in town and that is how they are going to distinguish themselves in the marketplace. Only they can make that determination. If they conclude they can do this and be profitable to a satisfactory standard, then they should do it.

    If not, then all bets are off. Stop paying BlackBerry for their name and software (neither of which has any meaningful clout in the consumer space) and just sell "TCL" phones with PKB keyboards (Alcatel can be their slab line of devices) of their own making and continue to pursue this niche. They could do it with less cost and probably be just as successful with an actual shot at growth. I don't feel the name "BlackBerry" helps them accomplish this objective in any meaningful way. In fact, it likely hurts since most consumers scoff at anything BlackBerry.

    Sure, BlackBerry diehards will be upset, but the "BlackBerry" experience pretty much died with the conclusion of BBOS and BB10. In my opinion, BlackBerry Android has offered little to the market as evidenced by dismal sales.

    So if TCL is going to be niche with low sales, they might as well do so without BlackBerry baggage. It would likely enhance profitability and they would absorb most of BlackBerry's legacy customers anyway since many are already using TCL devices. And, quite happily I might add.

    In summary, TCL needs to consider dropping BlackBerry and manufacture TCL- branded devices with their own PKB and Android One. Then they would have a shot at actually selling a compelling device that is reasonably priced and different from other marketplace offerings. They would also rid themselves of the tainted brand image of BlackBerry. This might actually open the door for growth and further innovation without having the BlackBerry anvil chained to their ankle.

    It appears to me that BlackBerry wants to do nothing and TCL wants to do something.

    Maybe this is the best option for everybody?
    I definitely agree with this.

    Seems like a win-win for everyone:

    -BB Ltd will have officially have absolutely nothing to do with mobile devices anymore

    -TCL should be able to make at least some profit by selling their own Android One PKB devices

    -PKB/BB fans still get an option rather than being forced to type on glass.
    Some would just load the BB suite on it, even if the apps aren't being updated anymore, as well as slap on a BB10 wallpaper and icon pack and call it a day
    06-16-19 02:56 PM
  19. Platinum_2's Avatar
    I definitely agree with this.

    Seems like a win-win for everyone:

    -BB Ltd will have officially have absolutely nothing to do with mobile devices anymore

    -TCL should be able to make at least some profit by selling their own Android One PKB devices

    -PKB/BB fans still get an option rather than being forced to type on glass.
    Some would just load the BB suite on it, even if the apps aren't being updated anymore, as well as slap on a BB10 wallpaper and icon pack and call it a day
    At that point, TCL would likely handle any PKB software/drivers and Google would handle the OS. Users would simply go to the Playstore and pay for the BlackBerry suite of apps if they wanted them. I would assume since BlackBerry likes to proudly call itself a software company now, it would continue to develop mobile productivity and security apps for Android devices.
    06-16-19 03:08 PM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    TCL will want to pay BlackBerry Ltd. for keyboard software if they feel BlackBerry Ltd. has the best game in town and that is how they are going to distinguish themselves in the marketplace. Only they can make that determination. If they conclude they can do this and be profitable to a satisfactory standard, then they should do it.

    If not, then all bets are off. Stop paying BlackBerry for their name and software (neither of which has any meaningful clout in the consumer space) and just sell "TCL" phones with PKB keyboards (Alcatel can be their slab line of devices) of their own making and continue to pursue this niche. They could do it with less cost and probably be just as successful with an actual shot at growth. I don't feel the name "BlackBerry" helps them accomplish this objective in any meaningful way. In fact, it likely hurts since most consumers scoff at anything BlackBerry.

    Sure, BlackBerry diehards will be upset, but the "BlackBerry" experience pretty much died with the conclusion of BBOS and BB10. In my opinion, BlackBerry Android has offered little to the market as evidenced by dismal sales.

    So if TCL is going to be niche with low sales, they might as well do so without BlackBerry baggage. It would likely enhance profitability and they would absorb most of BlackBerry's legacy customers anyway since many are already using TCL devices. And, quite happily I might add.

    In summary, TCL needs to consider dropping BlackBerry and manufacture TCL- branded devices with their own PKB and Android One. Then they would have a shot at actually selling a compelling device that is reasonably priced and different from other marketplace offerings. They would also rid themselves of the tainted brand image of BlackBerry. This might actually open the door for growth and further innovation without having the BlackBerry anvil chained to their ankle.

    It appears to me that BlackBerry wants to do nothing and TCL wants to do something.

    Maybe this is the best option for everybody?
    BB had the PKB name brand identity and recognition. BB was smart enough to bundle in with BBAndroid to get the full licensing premium.

    TCL already owns the second biggest name in Palm for PKB style but it’s questionable how big #2 name can do? Using Android One, perhaps TCL can develop more profitable line that carriers will agree to order giving TCL much required volume to keep a PKB endeavor going.
    06-16-19 04:32 PM
  21. Platinum_2's Avatar
    BB had the PKB name brand identity and recognition. BB was smart enough to bundle in with BBAndroid to get the full licensing premium.

    TCL already owns the second biggest name in Palm for PKB style but it’s questionable how big #2 name can do? Using Android One, perhaps TCL can develop more profitable line that carriers will agree to order giving TCL much required volume to keep a PKB endeavor going.
    Hard to say, but the idea here is for TCL to start fresh. They can create their own unique identity in the mobile space using more efficient design, marketing and manufacturing techniques where the others (Palm and BlackBerry) failed to do so.
    06-16-19 06:20 PM
  22. the_boon's Avatar
    Hard to say, but the idea here is for TCL to start fresh. They can create their own unique identity in the mobile space using more efficient design, marketing and manufacturing techniques where the others (Palm and BlackBerry) failed to do so.
    Well, at least saying you use a "TCL" device doesn't echo a "lol, failed brand" unlike when saying "BlackBerry" so they do have that going for them
    06-16-19 06:32 PM
  23. Platinum_2's Avatar
    Well, at least saying you use a "TCL" device doesn't echo a "lol, failed brand" unlike when saying "BlackBerry" so they do have that going for them
    Yeah, that's the idea. Why they partnered with a company that has a tarnished name and has failed to be profitable in the mobile space is a real head scratcher.

    If you want to read about a similar story, go read the life story if RCA Corporation.
    06-16-19 06:35 PM
  24. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Hard to say, but the idea here is for TCL to start fresh. They can create their own unique identity in the mobile space using more efficient design, marketing and manufacturing techniques where the others (Palm and BlackBerry) failed to do so.
    Palm and BB failed simply by having phones with the wrong ecosystem at specific point in time. At this point, finding more of the next chronological PKB defectors from Treo days is possible low hanging fruit. Again, the PKB form isn’t sold because consumers showed a very quick preference to dump the form and move to all touch screens. Users after that 2008-2012 time frame don’t really comprehend a PKB and would be a very improper choice of target demographic with limited resources for a low priced device.

    I was just in the store and priced unlocked Android devices. The 3/32 factory unlocked mid tier slabs are $299-$399 while 4/64 are roughly $100 more. So, I’m just pointing out what a casual prospective customer finds next to carrier locked flagship devices sold on monthly payments.

    Then you find consumers don’t purchase BBMo PKB hardware even though it’s anywhere $50-$100 less and could be found through some carriers. It seems consumers don’t want any PKB if available to buy and cheaper.
    06-16-19 06:44 PM
  25. the_boon's Avatar
    Palm and BB failed simply by having phones with the wrong ecosystem at specific point in time. At this point, finding more of the next chronological PKB defectors from Treo days is possible low hanging fruit. Again, the PKB form isn’t sold because consumers showed a very quick preference to dump the form and move to all touch screens. Users after that 2008-2012 time frame don’t really comprehend a PKB and would be a very improper choice of target demographic with limited resources for a low priced device.

    I was just in the store and priced unlocked Android devices. The 3/32 factory unlocked mid tier slabs are $299-$399 while 4/64 are roughly $100 more. So, I’m just pointing out what a casual prospective customer finds next to carrier locked flagship devices sold on monthly payments.

    Then you find consumers don’t purchase BBMo PKB hardware even though it’s anywhere $50-$100 less and could be found through some carriers. It seems consumers don’t want any PKB if available to buy and cheaper.
    But if the LE outsold the KEY2, wouldn't that just prove that some consumers may go for a PKB, but only if priced right?
    06-16-19 06:46 PM
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