04-09-12 02:16 PM
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  1. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar

    BB10 should leapfrog RIM back into the game
    Where have I heard the term 'leapfrogging' before?

    Hmm...
    vrs626, purijagmohan and moiselles like this.
    04-07-12 09:05 PM
  2. BB.David's Avatar
    I think the only reason why BlackBerry is more popular outside the U.S. because it's cheaper to own a BlackBerry, both in initial costs and by your monthly bill due to its low data consumption and many carriers adopt plans specifically for BlackBerry's. Not to mention BBM which is also a major factor.

    In the U.S. - a BlackBerry doesn't save you money. Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint (America's largest carriers) charge the same for owning, for example, a BlackBerry Bold and an iPhone both in initial costs AND your monthly bill depending on your data plan. What phone do you think the average person is going to get? Yup, 90% of the time, an iPhone (or Android).

    If U.S. carriers adopted plans similar to ones outside the U.S., for example Social and/or Messaging Plans for BlackBerry 7 phones (and future BlackBerry 8 or 9??) about $5 to $10 per month, that included about 200MB data usage for Facebook, Twitter, BBM, and BBM Music (with Wi-Fi only downloads) and carriers pushed this - I'd bet BlackBerry can actually become the standard basic or texting phone for users that can't afford or don't want a $20-30/month data plan. This is an area where even Android can't touch since even your basic Android phones consume much more data usage. And MAYBE, this can restrengthen the power of BBM.

    BlackBerry phones (outside of BB 10) should become the carrier's replacement for basic or "dumb phones."
    vrs626 likes this.
    04-07-12 10:11 PM
  3. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    In the U.S. - a BlackBerry doesn't save you money. Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint (America's largest carriers) charge the same for owning, for example, a BlackBerry Bold and an iPhone both in initial costs AND your monthly bill depending on your data plan. What phone do you think the average person is going to get? Yup, 90% of the time, an iPhone (or Android).
    The US carriers also benefit if users choose a different platform other than BlackBerry, since they do not have to pay the costs of BIS if the users choose other platfroms. Therefore, the US carriers would prefer their customers choose something other than BlackBerry.
    04-07-12 10:47 PM
  4. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    I agree with the OP. Not only RIM is doing well in UK, but also in Indonasia and the Middle East. I am Egyptian, since the launch of the Social only plans a year ago the BlackBerry numbers increased rapidly carriers are sellings hundreds a day now!

    Here in Qatar where I live it's a BlackBerry nation, having an iPhone makes you look awkward. Qatar owns over 23% of the Porshe design BB alone!

    Speaking of the Middle East, the iPhone seems to coming on strong in Israel. My wife is in Israel with her parents for Passover and she remarked at the number of iPhones she's seen since they arrived. Where BB and Motorola were once ubiquitous. Even kids are walking around with iPhones.

    iMessage, Skype and FaceTime between our devices is working flawlessly. I'm on Sprint, she and my son are on AT&T.
    04-07-12 10:49 PM
  5. sam_b77's Avatar
    Speaking of the Middle East, the iPhone seems to coming on strong in Israel. My wife is in Israel with her parents for Passover and she remarked at the number of iPhones she's seen since they arrived. Where BB and Motorola were once ubiquitous. Even kids are walking around with iPhones.

    iMessage, Skype and FaceTime between our devices is working flawlessly. I'm on Sprint, she and my son are on AT&T.
    This is subjective. If you have an iPhone, you will notice whenever someone else has it it and form an opinion (flawed however) that everyone has an iPhone. It's like buying a particular car model. Once you buy it you will notice more of the same than before. But that doesn't mean that since you bought it more of the same are being sold.

    Human brain can be surprisingly self deceptive when it comes to observing the world around it.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-07-12 10:57 PM
  6. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    This is subjective. If you have an iPhone, you will notice whenever someone else has it it and form an opinion (flawed however) that everyone has an iPhone. It's like buying a particular car model. Once you buy it you will notice more of the same than before. But that doesn't mean that since you bought it more of the same are being sold.

    Human brain can be surprisingly self deceptive when it comes to observing the world around it.
    Tell me about it! When I got a Honda Civic coupe in 2008, I noticed every Honda Civic coupe, especially the ones that were the same colour as mine. I actually had to press the unlock button on my keychain remote to find my car, rather than somebody else's car that was the same colour as mine.
    04-07-12 11:04 PM
  7. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    This is subjective. If you have an iPhone, you will notice whenever someone else has it it and form an opinion (flawed however) that everyone has an iPhone. It's like buying a particular car model. Once you buy it you will notice more of the same than before. But that doesn't mean that since you bought it more of the same are being sold.

    Human brain can be surprisingly self deceptive when it comes to observing the world around it.
    Curious. I just reread my post, at which part did I actually state an opinion? I did relay an "impression" that she's noticing more iPhone on this trip that her trip last Summer. At no point did I give an opinion re anything. Unless there's something I missed.

    I'm 8 days into an iPhone. My wife is four years. Previously, she always remarked re the dominance of BB and Motorola and the iPhone was scarce.

    But let's hold this thought...
    Last edited by ADozenEggs@aol.com; 04-07-12 at 11:51 PM.
    04-07-12 11:09 PM
  8. sam_b77's Avatar
    Curious. I just reread my post, at which part did I actually state an opinion? I did relay an "impression" that she's noticing more iPhone on this trip that her trip last Summer. At no point did I give an opinion re anything. Unless there's something I missed.

    I'm 8 days into an iPhone. My wife is four years. Previously, she always remarked re the dominance of BB and Motorola and the iPhone was scarce.

    But let's hold this thought...
    You quoted your wife's opinion .
    However if any stats are available of iPhone's growing popularity in Israel over BB then that would be a better metric.
    04-08-12 02:22 AM
  9. addicted44's Avatar
    Yep, that's the spirit. You sure nailed me.
    If it were your company and your product were more widely used in other countries, you'd probably feel a little differently. Frankly, i'm rather proud of RIM for persisting rather than rolling over and playing dead.

    Sent from BitPusher's BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk
    1) I wasn't out to nail you. You asked a question about why RIM wasn't getting more credit for better sales I explained why. Because those sales are not making up for lost sales in NA. It would be easier to have a discussion if you didn't take everything as a personal attack.

    2) RIM isn't my company. I am not sure why you expect me to respond from a fake "RIM owner" perspective, as opposed to an unbiased (as unbiased as one can be) person interested in mobile technology and RIM's role in it, which is my true perspective.
    Last edited by addicted44; 04-08-12 at 02:28 AM.
    04-08-12 02:24 AM
  10. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    You quoted your wife's opinion .
    However if any stats are available of iPhone's growing popularity in Israel over BB then that would be a better metric.
    No, I repeated that my wife's is noticing many more iPhones than before. At no time did I give an opinion.

    But you are correct re: metric.
    04-08-12 10:25 AM
  11. alby4ever's Avatar
    It's pretty sad seeing all the lame excuses for poor North American BB sales being conjured up on CB and in response to this thread.

    So American culture is to blame? You all really think if a BB, iPhone, Android phone were lined up for comparison in front of American consumers that they would pick a BB the majority of the time? They would pick an inferior device that doesn't fit their lifestyle needs just so RIM won't feel so bad? Ok

    Yes. Let's keep ignoring the fact that a BB today does infinitely less for American consumers than the iPhone and Android. All this bad news has nothing to do with putting out non-competitive and inferior devices (the 9900 without an AF camera at a time when cameras are a big deal to consumers). Right

    What's more sad is there are many here who are pretty much praying for a massive exploit or attack to happen to iPhone and Android users. Keep it classy you self-proclaimed professionals who don't need toys.

    And I'm sure the whole we-can-do-fine-without-the-US thing worked out great for Nokia. Oh wait, it didn't

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
    04-08-12 11:07 AM
  12. sam_b77's Avatar
    It's pretty sad seeing all the lame excuses for poor North American BB sales being conjured up on CB and in response to this thread.

    So American culture is to blame? You all really think if a BB, iPhone, Android phone were lined up for comparison in front of American consumers that they would pick a BB the majority of the time? They would pick an inferior device that doesn't fit their lifestyle needs just so RIM won't feel so bad? Ok

    Yes. Let's keep ignoring the fact that a BB today does infinitely less for American consumers than the iPhone and Android. All this bad news has nothing to do with putting out non-competitive and inferior devices (the 9900 without an AF camera at a time when cameras are a big deal to consumers). Right

    What's more sad is there are many here who are pretty much praying for a massive exploit or attack to happen to iPhone and Android users. Keep it classy you self-proclaimed professionals who don't need toys.

    And I'm sure the whole we-can-do-fine-without-the-US thing worked out great for Nokia. Oh wait, it didn't

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
    Nicely worded sarcastic post to make the professionals debate peacefully. Your post was certainly a shining light of studied intelligent debate
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-08-12 11:21 AM
  13. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    It's pretty sad seeing all the lame excuses for poor North American BB sales being conjured up on CB and in response to this thread.

    So American culture is to blame? You all really think if a BB, iPhone, Android phone were lined up for comparison in front of American consumers that they would pick a BB the majority of the time? They would pick an inferior device that doesn't fit their lifestyle needs just so RIM won't feel so bad? Ok

    Yes. Let's keep ignoring the fact that a BB today does infinitely less for American consumers than the iPhone and Android. All this bad news has nothing to do with putting out non-competitive and inferior devices (the 9900 without an AF camera at a time when cameras are a big deal to consumers). Right

    What's more sad is there are many here who are pretty much praying for a massive exploit or attack to happen to iPhone and Android users. Keep it classy you self-proclaimed professionals who don't need toys.

    And I'm sure the whole we-can-do-fine-without-the-US thing worked out great for Nokia. Oh wait, it didn't

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
    A scapegoat is needed. Blame the evil US of A and those Americans.

    Anti-American sentiment is nothing new. America, Free Markets, Individualism and Capitalism root of all the world's evils. And let's not forget democracy and actually allowing people to choose at some levels.

    Because all the other societal models, throughout history, have worked perfectly.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-08-12 11:28 AM
  14. grahamf's Avatar
    I think it's mostly because RIM makes lower-end handsets, and in North America we have contracts, which reduce the prices to the point that you can get higher-end phones for free or for only $100 more than the nicest BlackBerrys.

    That, I suppose, is what BB10 is for.
    04-08-12 04:53 PM
  15. shaleem's Avatar
    It's pretty sad seeing all the lame excuses for poor North American BB sales being conjured up on CB and in response to this thread.

    So American culture is to blame? You all really think if a BB, iPhone, Android phone were lined up for comparison in front of American consumers that they would pick a BB the majority of the time? They would pick an inferior device that doesn't fit their lifestyle needs just so RIM won't feel so bad? Ok

    Yes. Let's keep ignoring the fact that a BB today does infinitely less for American consumers than the iPhone and Android. All this bad news has nothing to do with putting out non-competitive and inferior devices (the 9900 without an AF camera at a time when cameras are a big deal to consumers). Right

    What's more sad is there are many here who are pretty much praying for a massive exploit or attack to happen to iPhone and Android users. Keep it classy you self-proclaimed professionals who don't need toys.

    And I'm sure the whole we-can-do-fine-without-the-US thing worked out great for Nokia. Oh wait, it didn't

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
    Yes, I'm certain that the lack of an Auto Focus camera is the reason for BlackBerry's decline in market share. (rolls eyes) And please, tell us what you base that "fact" on. Do you have some sort of study to back that up? Yes, the iPhone and Android devices have most of the market share right now. Key words are:right now. The American buying public is fickle, in my opinion, and things never remain static for too long. Frankly, I could not care less if iPhone and Android devices have more users .... right now. I use a BlackBerry because it does what I want it to do. Period. I'm not knocking iPhone or any other device because, obviously, many people like them because they do what they want them to do. So, try to be less sanctimonious. Please. Because, your post is just as lame as the posts that you are being critical of.
    04-08-12 06:32 PM
  16. SCrid2000's Avatar
    Nah you're right OP.
    04-08-12 07:21 PM
  17. trsbbs's Avatar
    First off are you talking about the United States or America. Their is a difference.

    To address the question, what happens in the U.S. trickles out to the rest of the world.

    We are already seeing RIMS market share start to decline elsewhere due to less expensive Droid phones hitting their markets. RIM even has indicated this. Market anylists predicted this (as I posted over 6 months ago) and it is coming to pass.

    It's just a matter of time before the folks in other countries want better and faster toys. As their networks improve the demand for better phones will increase.

    Supply and demand is a world wide ideal.

    Count on it.

    Tim
    04-08-12 07:29 PM
  18. BoldPreza's Avatar
    Tell me about it! When I got a Honda Civic coupe in 2008, I noticed every Honda Civic coupe, especially the ones that were the same colour as mine. I actually had to press the unlock button on my keychain remote to find my car, rather than somebody else's car that was the same colour as mine.
    I hate the Honda Civic. I have a 2004 as my secondary car, damn SOB's are EVERYWHERE!!! At one intersection there were 11! How the can there be 11 of one car at an intersection?!?!?!?!
    04-08-12 09:03 PM
  19. grahamf's Avatar
    I hate the Honda Civic. I have a 2004 as my secondary car, damn SOB's are EVERYWHERE!!! At one intersection there were 11! How the can there be 11 of one car at an intersection?!?!?!?!
    probability states that at one point there were hundreds of Honda Civics in the same place.
    04-08-12 09:11 PM
  20. tmelon's Avatar
    In the part of America where I live BlackBerries are rare. When people see one they immediately think that you're either being forced to use it by your business or you're due for an upgrade.
    04-08-12 09:23 PM
  21. hurds's Avatar
    Speaking of the Middle East, the iPhone seems to coming on strong in Israel. My wife is in Israel with her parents for Passover and she remarked at the number of iPhones she's seen since they arrived. Where BB and Motorola were once ubiquitous. Even kids are walking around with iPhones.

    iMessage, Skype and FaceTime between our devices is working flawlessly. I'm on Sprint, she and my son are on AT&T.
    Hmm. I don't know but I think you might want to check your wife's phone bill once she is back. When I left the US and texted back it wouldn't connect to imessage and was sent as an SMS. Also I had questionable reliability with imessages going through so I just kept using whatsapp instead so I didn't have to worry about getting charged.
    04-08-12 09:35 PM
  22. srsBlackBird's Avatar
    There is a lot of mis-quoting going on inside RIM, in the media, and in forums like this one.

    Context is everything. RIM is seen as performing badly in North American markets including the United States, and it;s native Canada. The key word is "seen." What was reported on the last earnings call was one fiscal quarter in two markets.

    RIM has been having some consecutively under-performing quarters lately. That doesn't mean they are no longer a billion-dollar company with a global presence. They are still cash flow positive. The loss from Q4 is reflective of a change in earnings from the previous quarter.

    They didn't post a loss because no one purchased a phone, they posted a loss because they only put on a couple million subscribers in Q4, compared to what they've done in more competitive quarters.

    The reasons why RIM has been bearish have little to do with one or two devic features. They have to do with perception and communication. RIM is a tech company, through and through. The revenue shortfall was not gross revenue. My understanding is that RIM doesn't even post gross revenue results.

    #BlackBerryTorchBearer
    04-08-12 09:40 PM
  23. Economist101's Avatar
    When I left the US and texted back it wouldn't connect to imessage and was sent as an SMS.
    That's probably why there's an option of disabling the "send as SMS" option.
    04-08-12 10:15 PM
  24. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    Hmm. I don't know but I think you might want to check your wife's phone bill once she is back. When I left the US and texted back it wouldn't connect to imessage and was sent as an SMS. Also I had questionable reliability with imessages going through so I just kept using whatsapp instead so I didn't have to worry about getting charged.
    Will do that. She's in a place were WiFi is abundant, but will remind her to check her bill.
    04-08-12 10:54 PM
  25. Muttypint's Avatar
    No its RIM vs iPhone, really hope the BB10 works out well, cuz if not America is just the first one to switch but slowly many will follow.

    The reason many didn't change yet, is because the blackberry i available on almost all cellular carriers worldwide, but the iPhone only has some select few.
    04-08-12 10:59 PM
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