04-09-12 02:16 PM
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  1. oz_insatiable's Avatar
    I am fully expecting to get ripped apart here for what is undoubtedly a naive pov, but I have a question thats been bugging me for the past few weeks...

    Alot of the news reports, websites and even forum posts that have been bashing RIM since the quarterly earnings call all seem to declare that everyone us giving up on the Blackberry...that out on the street today, if you're carrying a Blackberry you're a relic, and that everyone is now carrying an iPhone or Android device and soon you will be too (i'm obviously exagerating, but i'm sure you know the kind of statement i mean)

    But here in the UK i really dont see that.

    I'm reguarly at meetings with clients, execs, even friends and family both here and around Europe, and the phones i see most around the table are Blackberrys. Sure, there are alot of iPhones, i'm not dismissing that, but having a Blackberry is not rareity here. Im not here to question all the statistics, i know from reading them that RIM's sales are dropping and the competion are constantly growing, but what i'm reading online does not add up to what i see day to day. RIM's focusing on the 'emerging' markets and (when the occasional news story does cover this) seem to be doing well out of this too. So they are selling, and many many people are carrying around these phones in their pockets everyday. So whats with all the bad press??

    From an outsiders point of view, it just seems that in North America RIM are struggling. Struggling alot infact. And to the forecasters and news reporters that means RIM are struggling EVERYWHERE. But they're not. It's not what i see, and its doesnt seem to be as doom and gloom as everyone is saying. So (to end my rant) just becasue RIM arnt now as successful as they once were in North America, why, in the grand scheme of things, does that really matter, if the rest of the world is still buying? And why does every news story etc etc focus purely on whats happening in NA and not take into account the Blackberry 'story' around the globe, where it seems they still have a pretty decent grip of its consumers.
    CairnsRock likes this.
    04-06-12 11:43 PM
  2. grahamf's Avatar
    It does seem like that. Anti-RIM stories outside of north america are not seen so often.
    04-06-12 11:52 PM
  3. Economist101's Avatar
    So (to end my rant) just becasue RIM arnt now as successful as they once were in North America, why, in the grand scheme of things, does that really matter, if the rest of the world is still buying? And why does every news story etc etc focus purely on whats happening in NA and not take into account the Blackberry 'story' around the globe, where it seems they still have a pretty decent grip of its consumers.
    RIM has been posting high (~70%) year over year profit declines recently. If weakness in "North America" results in a 70% profit decline then they really can't afford to be weak in North America.
    purijagmohan likes this.
    04-07-12 12:09 AM
  4. app_Developer's Avatar
    RIM has significant marketshare in the UK, but they never really acheived significant share in Europe overall, did they? From what I've seen their sales in Germany or France were never high enough to fall very far.

    The reason the US story is significant is because the US was a market that RIM absolutely dominated a few years ago. The US was also a very profitable market, as evidenced by their earnings reports over the past couple of years.

    I ordered a new car recently. Now that I've become excited about that and a "fan" of the model now, everywhere I look I seem to see lots of people driving it. Does that mean it has suddenly become this very popular car? No, it doesn't. It means i'm emotionally invested now to the point that I will notice every single one that I see wherever I travel. The reality is they sell no more than they did last year when I hardly noticed one at all.

    If you completely omit the US market, Blackberry sales are still way behind Samsung and Apple when you look at worldwide totals. The UK is an exception here, where RIM still holds relatively strong sales. Canada is obviously another country where RIM still makes strong sales. But for every UK or Canada or Indonesia, look at Japan or China or Germany or the US.
    04-07-12 12:10 AM
  5. hurds's Avatar
    To me theres a strong American media bias against RIM. Others say its of RIMs own doing. Whos right? I am obviously.
    04-07-12 01:41 AM
  6. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    Nope, you made a very good point and one I often scream about when anything negative on RIM crosses my path. America is driven and essentially based on two things; convenience and trend. I'm not for one second saying every American is such (else that would include me), but trend and majority opinion dominate your average American's view of the rest of the world. As many directions as I could go in to prove the point; i'll stick to the subject of RIM. BlackBerry isn't mega-hip right now, so therefore they have to be equally as unpopular mainstream wise in the rest of the world right? Or better; why acknowledge the rest of the world, for if it isn't great here it doesn't matter right? Such a shame.

    RIM is doing fantastic in the rest of the world, but nobody seems to care. They own some serious technologies (say QNX for example), but none of that matters because "BlackBerry sucks." To say consumer majority is closed minded and purposefully ignorant of the rest of the world around them is the understatement of the year.

    Either i'm overly arrogant, or just a bit too biased as a loyal customer of RIM, or both. Since I was born and raised here, I have a fair amount of data to back up these claims. As I said though, not everybody is so closed off.

    Sent from BitPusher's BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk
    CairnsRock and Dapper37 like this.
    04-07-12 02:41 AM
  7. addicted44's Avatar
    RIM is doing fantastic in the rest of the world, but nobody seems to care.
    When doing "fantastic" in the rest of the world does not mean their profit declines 70% yoy then people will give RIM credit for that.

    As it stands, their losses in North America are many magnitudes greater than any gains in the RoW.
    04-07-12 04:03 AM
  8. CairnsRock's Avatar
    Good post, I like it. In NA we tend to be ethnocentric in a lot things, in this case tech trends. The assumption is that what happens here will play out in time around the globe.
    Not Always true of course, as regional consumer wealth varies substantially as does local marketing and communication. Does the average European or Asian even know or care what is cool in the United States?

    It's refreshing in this forum to see more UK folks posting and to hear their views, as well as the posters from around the world.
    04-07-12 04:07 AM
  9. Ginger Eskimo's Avatar
    The points you made about BB in the UK are accurate, BBs have been popular for a while but have recently been adopted by a younger sort of crowd.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    04-07-12 04:38 AM
  10. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    Actually, in the UK RIM is also losing relevance, though its not as drastic as in the US. A recent survey in the UK shows, that among people with a household income of more than 40.000 Pounds a year Blackberry ranks NINTH behind brands like Apple, Samsung, Android and even Nokia...

    And of course, in the rest of Europe, it's pretty much only Apple and Android you see people use....
    04-07-12 04:41 AM
  11. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    When doing "fantastic" in the rest of the world does not mean their profit declines 70% yoy then people will give RIM credit for that.



    As it stands, their losses in North America are many magnitudes greater than any gains in the RoW.

    Yep, that's the spirit. You sure nailed me.
    If it were your company and your product were more widely used in other countries, you'd probably feel a little differently. Frankly, i'm rather proud of RIM for persisting rather than rolling over and playing dead.

    Sent from BitPusher's BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by BitPusher2600; 04-07-12 at 04:57 AM.
    04-07-12 04:55 AM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Just wait until the new Curve 9220 hits UK, there will be a massive boom in sales as it replaces the old 8520. Watch this space.
    04-07-12 04:59 AM
  13. sam_b77's Avatar
    Actually, in the UK RIM is also losing relevance, though its not as drastic as in the US. While Blackberries are popular among chavs and yobs (young poor people, often from inner cities. Problems with drugs/drinking and authorities, unemployed but still manage to use money on fake gold chains and Blackberries) but a recent survey in the UK shows, that among people with a household income of more than 40.000 Pounds a year Blackberry ranks NINTH behind brands like Apple, Samsung, Android and even Nokia...

    And of course, in the rest of Europe, it's pretty much only Apple and Android you see people use....
    Wait, so let me get this straight. Basically you are saying that in Britain only poor people,drug addicts and unemployed good for nothing people use Blackberrys.
    Now half of UK's population own smartphones. And 22% of the smartphones sold in UK are BBs. So basically you describe 10% of the UK population to be drug addicts, poor wretched and gangsters. Wow UK has bigger problems than thinking about smartphones. Half of UK Population Owns a Smartphone | ITProPortal.com
    04-07-12 06:17 AM
  14. moiselles's Avatar
    Because America sets the trends for the rest of the world, like it or not. And to RIM, America should be their #1 priority, it is the most important market. They may be growing in third world countries, but it's the loss of sales in America, or North America in general, that have affected the company.
    04-07-12 06:39 AM
  15. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Because America sets the trends for the rest of the world, like it or not. And to RIM, America should be their #1 priority, it is the most important market. They may be growing in third world countries, but it's the loss of sales in America, or North America in general, that have affected the company.
    No, they used to, not any more.
    Fatoomah likes this.
    04-07-12 06:43 AM
  16. moiselles's Avatar
    No, they used to, not any more.
    Then who does?

    You can't deny that RIM's failing sales in the US have not drastically hurt them.
    04-07-12 06:46 AM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    No, they used to, not any more.
    Lost of sales in US is influencing or affecting Rim but as a trend that's not influencing the rest of the world, meaning just because Americans don't find BB trendy anymore is not affecting the trend in other countries, as hard as the media might try. In UK fir example Rim is doing very well yet the media still reports them as "struggling". They report on Rim based on US trend.

    Countries used to look up at US and follow their trends, not any more, that's what I was trying to say. I'm talking about fashion, music + other trends.
    Ben1232 and Fatoomah like this.
    04-07-12 06:55 AM
  18. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    But RIM is struggling.

    Mobile post via Tapatalk
    Last edited by trelawrence; 04-07-12 at 07:04 AM.
    04-07-12 07:02 AM
  19. glamrlama's Avatar
    Hey OP

    Not everyone is giving up on RIM! However by all metrics the company has less value in the marketplace. People report on trends and stock prices.. The vast majority of people on the planet do not have a phone. Of any kind. If they put out a good phone people will buy it. If they put out a great phone many many people will buy it. The phone is a consumer product and consumers have many options. The phone is becoming a commodity as well, I really hope that in future I can buy that commodity running an OS and hardware from RIM. Currently a 9780 and a PB. I can wait for a While for new hardware and OS.
    04-07-12 08:34 AM
  20. EdY's Avatar
    RIM is struggling because they were first out, dominated early, became complacent and had a legacy OS infrastructure to keep compatible with.

    Meanwhile, Apple, Google and Microsoft are HUGE American companies with way more money, and have been able to design fresh over the last 3-5 years.

    There was nowhere to go but down for RIM and up for the rest.

    Now, not all hope is lost. BB10 should leapfrog RIM back into the game with a platform that should at least STOP THE BLEEDING and keep more Blackberry users from switching on their next phone upgrade cycle.

    I am counting on it. All I ever used was Blackberry and hope the next gen of BB's is compelling. I was almost going to go Android last year but decided on my Torch which is awesome by the way, as is my Playbook.

    Like it or not, we need North America for RIM to survive as a consumer device and not a cheap has-been. They are doing it.... Wait for BB10 and the next gen Blackberry experience!!!

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Crackberry Tapatalk Forum app
    04-07-12 08:44 AM
  21. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    Wait, so let me get this straight. Basically you are saying that in Britain only poor people,drug addicts and unemployed good for nothing people use Blackberrys.
    Nope, that's NOT what I said. But it's certainly true that it's popular in that segment of society, whereas among households with an income OVER 40.000 pounds (64.000 USD) RIM only ranked as the 9th most popular/desirable brand. Behind Samsung, Apple, Nokia and others.
    04-07-12 08:54 AM
  22. shaleem's Avatar
    I wonder what age group drives this particular market. Also, are they professionals, students or none/all of the above? Apple looks to be the trend setter ....at the moment anyway ....we'll see. Personally, I think when many people read stories about RIM's decline, and what a powerhouse Apple is, for example, they jump ship. Frankly, I love my BlackBerry because it does exactly what I want it to do, and need it to do. I guess I'm just not as app driven as some. I'm not knocking the iPhone because I think it is a superb device, as are the Samsung devices. They're just not for me.
    04-07-12 05:20 PM
  23. FlashFlare11's Avatar
    I'm an American college student and, from what I've seen, you wouldn't think RIM was declining either. I see BlackBerry devices everywhere. Granted, I see a lot of iPhones and Android devices as well, but BlackBerries are out there and their numbers aren't bad, from my own experiences.

    Now, while RIM is doing well everywhere else, the US market is incredibly important. Not that the US always sets the trend everywhere else in the world, but the US is RIM's largest market. Also, RIM's competitors are starting to show up in areas where RIM is firmly dominant, challenging the BlackBerry. If RIM doesn't adopt to the US market, at some point, it will have to adopt to the changing global market.
    oldtimeBBaddict likes this.
    04-07-12 05:42 PM
  24. M.Rizk's Avatar
    I agree with the OP. Not only RIM is doing well in UK, but also in Indonasia and the Middle East. I am Egyptian, since the launch of the Social only plans a year ago the BlackBerry numbers increased rapidly carriers are sellings hundreds a day now!

    Here in Qatar where I live it's a BlackBerry nation, having an iPhone makes you look awkward. Qatar owns over 23% of the Porshe design BB alone!
    Fatoomah likes this.
    04-07-12 06:40 PM
  25. lnichols's Avatar
    I think that people are predicting that what is happening in the US, and even now in Canada with more iPhones being sold than Blackberry devices, is a leading indicator of what will happen elsewhere as Android and iOS devices become affordable and data plans get cheaper. RIM is starting to slash prices in India now too and reports of cheap Androids gaining traction there. RIM only added 2 Million net users last quarter when they had been adding at a lot faster pace than that. Very possible that they may stop adding and start declining in next quarter. So not only is NA on the decline, but the rest of the world is almost no longer making up for the declines in NA. While i do the press is overly negative, there is not a lot of possitives coming out of RIM at the moment. There is no guarantee that BB10 will turn things around, and we know that BB10 will only be high end pricing for a while, so how will they stop the losses to cheap Androids? I'm hopeful for BB10 and will be buying one, but it remains to be seen if it will get people to choose it over the competition.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Crackberry App!
    CairnsRock and vrs626 like this.
    04-07-12 06:41 PM
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