[idssteve]

Landscape PKB isn't very single handed friendly. Imo. Only smart to mimic configuration of the single most successful PKB handset. I certainly have no special insight but would place a small bet that there are still more 9900s in use than any other individual PKB model...??? If so, or close to it, that represents an established niche, imo. Portrait candybar PKB form is pretty proven.

What too few folks fail to appreciate, including BBRY themselves it seems, is that the handset itself is integral to PKB function. A PKB afforded stability is faster, more precise with less fatigue to use than one that shifts around with each key press. No handset larger than 9900 affords 9900 stability. Imo. The stable grasp afforded by its comfortable size is no small part of the universal praise its exquisite keyboard routinely earns.

That same keyboard fitted to a handset too large to enjoy stability of comfortable grasp isn't as fast nor as precise. Despite over two years of experience with uncomfortably large Classic, for example, my zero error type rate with it is barely half of 9900's !!! I attribute that disparity to inability to hold Classic stable while pressing keys with a thumb in single hand. Its two handed speed approaches my single handed 9900 speed but what's the point? Most pockets in my clothing are sized to fit a single hand. Little surprise that a single handed friendly handset should comfortably fit a single handed friendly pocket! Lol.

If seeking compact useability, iPhone SE seems to be smallest practical slab. Yet, I work with at least two coworkers who routinely switch from their SEs to even smaller 9900 for heavy typing. Trying an SE briefly myself, it's easy to see why. PKB provides a "Z axis" 3rd dimension that optimizes x-y space utilization. Similar to the motive behind sky scrapers in cities where real estate acreage is premium. PKB is best suited to compact handsets, imo. AND compact handsets are best suited to PKB! Imo. Win-win. Imo. Fwiw.

[Bbnivende]

The SE is considerably narrower than a 9900. A better comparator would be a iPhone 6 or 7. I would say then that the 9900 is a short small phone versus a iPhone 7 small phone.

I do think that a taller 9900 would still be pocketable and much more useful as it could run Android. I would start with a 9900 keyboard and toolbelt and build around that.

[nogutsnoglory]

I have had lots of phones but the 9800 and 10 were by far the best phones I ever used they were first and foremost a phone and text device they did smartphone stuff to be fair not that well.

I got the Priv a nice phone but not as good to use and will not fit in my pocket so I'm constantly looking for the shelf I put it down on every time it rings.

The number of people I talk to who want a smaller phone as opposed to the undersize tablet are we all living a bubble?

I think an android 4/5g version of the 9800 would clean up so long as it keeps to the small form factor.

What do others think?

Yes for me it is. My phone is carried in my pocket 95% of the time and having a phone to hat fits comfortably in my pocket is a must. The Priv is a little awkward for my pocket mostly due to the sharp angles on the corners. That is why I have gone back to my iPhone 7, it is just so much more comfortable and operates more easily with one-handed use.

[idssteve]

The SE is considerably narrower than a 9900. A better comparator would be a iPhone 6 or 7. I would say then that the 9900 is a short small phone versus a iPhone 7 small phone.

I do think that a taller 9900 would still be pocketable and much more useful as it could run Android. I would start with a 9900 keyboard and toolbelt and build around that.

Well, too tall is better than too tall and too wide, at least. Lol.

Comparing VKB slabs against PKB 9900 is like comparing D9 Cat against MG Midget. Imo. Both afford some slight overlap in capabilities but each concept commands a form factor optimally suited for its individual mission. My friend could drive his D9, or "compact" D8, to QuickTrip to purchase a six pack but would likely find his old MG Midget more optimally suited to the task. Lol. Fellow patrons likely to appreciate the MG's modest parking footprint, might not find my friend's D8 any less parking space obnoxious than his D9. Lol.

I haven't used an SE much so can only speculate if it is truly adequately sized for its "compact D8" mission. I've gotten reasonably proficient with monster sized D60 and truly prefer its monster size for VKB typing. It's crazy width seems to contribute to more error free VKB typing. Width being less issue for two handed typing. Other than the irritation of tying up both hands for simple communications, anyway. VKB typing needs all the space it can get for my fat thumbs, imo.

The ridiculously obnoxious length of my D60, tho, provides almost zero benefit for my typical use case while making it stick out of pockets and impossible to grasp all four sides while typing. It, and other slabs, get away with the top heavy lack of solid grasp because the virtual keys require zero force to operate.

Forces generated on keys of PKB, on the other hand (pun intended lol), generate "wiggle" when the handset is too tall for solid four sided grasp. Compensating for that wiggle slows down typing, imo. Too wide can be mitigated by using two hands. Like I do on Passport. Too tall simple has no mitigation that I've found. My Classic wiggles while typing single or double handed. My four sided grasp 9900 does not. I'm faster single thumbing my 9900 than double thumbing wiggling Classic. My experience, anyway.

In fact, I'm fastest on my narrower (SE narrow), shorter and THICKER 9650! That thing can be grasped with concrete stability and PKB typing rate benefits. Only my old model M PC keyboard is faster, for me.

All said, those two coworkers seem happy enough with their SEs so long as they have their 9900s available for typing. Since both fit pockets nicely, they seem to make a pocket friendly combo that provides superior functionality over any single slider. Now, if we'd ever gotten PlayBook bridge for 99 to Z30... !! What a "separated slider" THAT combo could've been! Lol anything like Bridge for Android?

[Bbnivende]

I agree with you on the wiggle problem. A PKB is a phone for typist. The designer has to move around components to achieve a slight balance shift to favour the bottom of the phone. Smaller phones are easier to hold.


I think the wiggle us more of a design error than a size issue.

As an experiment, try putting some lead tape available at a golf store on the lower backside of the Classic. I would be curious if the wiggle issue would be diminished.

[Slash82]

I'm with you OP!
I really love to look back when the Curve 8900 was my daily driver.
At it's time - outstanding display, outstanding multimedia capabilities etc.
(in a world where everyone still used Nokia candy bar devices).

And the Curve was totally pocket friendly.

But unfort. the times have changed a lot - back then "browsing the web" was just a special, special, special thing which you only did when you needed to.
There was no Facebook, there was no Twitter, there was no SnapChat and mobile YouTube was just growing.
Now, in 2017 media consumption is bigger than ANYTHING!
So with that big screen sizes matter...

I don't see a phone maker coming up again with that old "ratio" or sizes...
+5 inch screens have won the race...

[Nguyen1]

Media consumption is only a big thing in 2017 if one lets it be. All a matter of personal preference. I, for one, get by perfectly fine during a regular work day with what the 9900 can offer me in terms of browsing or apps.

Someone else, on the other hand, may need those social media apps or uber or bank apps. I've used big phones before, but in the end, I've always preferred smaller phones with pkbs. The trade-off of apps is one I'm willing to accept.

Sent from my primary phone, a pristine BlackBerry 9900!

[Tsepz_GP]

Smaller cell phones are making a comeback ( iPhone SE, Sony xperia compacts) and will in time become more popular than phablets. This is a certainty, and it will be thanks to Apple. It'll take some time, but once Apple perfects Augmented Reality, the need to carry a huge phone will subside, people will start using their AR devices plus a small smartphone.

I predict about 7-10 years but it'll happen. Maybe BlackBerry pkb phones will make a comeback by then.

Signature: Still typing away on my Passport SE!

No they are not.

Phone makers make higher profit on Phablets, and the larger Display phones continue to sell better.

The S7 Edge sold better than the smaller S7
The S8+ is selling better than S8
And the iPhone Plus models continue to be the ones to go for.

Sonys Xperia compacts are getting more mid end hardware and less high end.

[Tsepz_GP]

It could be a matter of supply as well. No one makes a landscape phone, what we may see are old models. Even in the heydays, landscape phones were uncommon, but there are still fans. One might say the same thing about the keyone, rare with fans.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930!

LOL! What are you on about!?

Landscape sliders were the main type of device Windows Mobile ran on. HTC built their once incredibly profitable business on them and sold them globally to networks and even businesses like iMate who rebranded the handsets.

Nokia also had landscape sliders, the most popular was the Nokia N97 that sold better than most BlackBerry models


Most early Androids were landscape sliders, in fact the FIRST Android was a landscape slider, and the Android that put the OS on the Map in the USA, the Motorola DROID was a landscape slider.

One of the USS networks even made a Landscape sliding Galaxy S model.

My friend, we were in undated with Landscape Sliders, so landscape Sliders were VERY common.

[Nguyen1]

No they are not.

Phone makers make higher profit on Phablets, and the larger Display phones continue to sell better.

The S7 Edge sold better than the smaller S7
The S8+ is selling better than S8
And the iPhone Plus models continue to be the ones to go for.

Sonys Xperia compacts are getting more mid end hardware and less high end.

I said... 7-10 years. Currently, you're absolutely correct. But there's incredible tech just around the corner. Let's talk again in another decade (if crackberry still exists) and we'll see who's right or wrong.

Signature: Still typing away on my Passport SE!

[Nguyen1]

LOL! What are you on about!?

Landscape sliders were the main type of device Windows Mobile ran on. HTC built their once incredibly profitable business on them and sold them globally to networks and even businesses like iMate who rebranded the handsets.

Nokia also had landscape sliders, the most popular was the Nokia N97 that sold better than most BlackBerry models


Most early Androids were landscape sliders, in fact the FIRST Android was a landscape slider, and the Android that put the OS on the Map in the USA, the Motorola DROID was a landscape slider.

One of the USS networks even made a Landscape sliding Galaxy S model.

My friend, we were in undated with Landscape Sliders, so landscape Sliders were VERY common.

Well, in my experience back in the day, lots more people used flip phones than landscape phones. A geographic or regional thing perhaps?

But if landscape phones become popular again, then... GREAT! I'm all for it! I'll take a Nokia Communicator successor running on OLED screen please, thanks.

Signature: Still typing away on my Passport SE!

[Tsepz_GP]

I said... 7-10 years. Currently, you're absolutely correct. But there's incredible tech just around the corner. Let's talk again in another decade (if crackberry still exists) and we'll see who's right or wrong.

Signature: Still typing away on my Passport SE!

If Samsung and LG can get foldable displays sorted then maybe we will see pocket sized. That's a big if though.

But for now? 18:9 QHD and UHD 5.7-6.5inch Displays will be what we get.

[Tsepz_GP]

Well, in my experience back in the day, lots more people used flip phones than landscape phones. A geographic or regional thing perhaps?

But if landscape phones become popular again, then... GREAT! I'm all for it! I'll take a Nokia Communicator successor running on OLED screen please, thanks.

Signature: Still typing away on my Passport SE!

We can only hope we see a greater variety of phone designs again.

In S.Korea Samsung sells touchscreen flip phones, they are still popular there.

Maybe we'll see a return of detachable modules.

Remember the Sony Ericsson P series with their detachable keyboards?

[TgeekB]

iPhone SE.

[ColinsCity]

I think the Priv with a smaller screen possibly 4.5-4.7 inches would be perfect, purely for the sake of being able to have it in my pockets, I know there will be people complaining if they make the screen smaller but there's people complaining about the KeyOne not having a bigger screen. I think if they released a Torch sized phone all these phone reviewers would be complaining and give it such a bad review like they did initially with the Priv even though it's not a bad device, people act like iphones don't overheat or become slow, my iPhone 6 overheats and loses battery if you use Snapchat or listen to music, the Priv doesn't.

[idssteve]

I agree with you on the wiggle problem. A PKB is a phone for typist. The designer has to move around components to achieve a slight balance shift to favour the bottom of the phone. Smaller phones are easier to hold.


I think the wiggle us more of a design error than a size issue.

As an experiment, try putting some lead tape available at a golf store on the lower backside of the Classic. I would be curious if the wiggle issue would be diminished.

I agree that "wiggle" can be at least partly mitigated thru thoughtful tuning of handset COG and/or MOI or MOR. Some in my crew have experimented with various add on strategies for our Classics. One promising attempt included a velcro strip on the back combined with velcro ring on first finger. Actually works by nicely improving zero error typing rate. Downside is that piece of velcro interferes with QI charging... always something... lol. We've even joked about adding gyro-stabilizers... lol.

Tuning can only do so much, tho. Thing about COG is its dependence on Gravity. Too tall handset can work ok if you are willing to "assume the position" demanded to work with gravity. Truly mobile communications involves out-of-position use. Grasping the TOP of a reasonably sized handset with first finger affords optimal all position stability. In my experience, anyway. That assumes the handset is short enough for first finger to grasp the top.

[medic22003]

The screen size would be longer but the PRIV keyboard even narrower. Not a good trade off.

A slider would need a serious redesign of the keyboard to best the KEYone.

I'd be happy with a bit shorter screen so it fits pockets better. Width is fine

[Avenzuno]

If Samsung and LG can get foldable displays sorted then maybe we will see pocket sized. That's a big if though.

But for now? 18:9 QHD and UHD 5.7-6.5inch Displays will be what we get.

Would a bigger 18:9 screen work for the KEYone successor? If so, what would be the screen size? Something close to 5" coupled with a Classic-sized PKB would be just about perfect.

Posted via CB10 from my 100-4 Passport SE

[idssteve]

Does Android still support 4:3?

[Tsepz_GP]

Does Android still support 4:3?

Yes, many Android Tablets use the 4:3 AR, but most apps seem to be written for 16:9 and are getting updates for 18:9. 4:3 is mainly supported on tablet optimised apps.

[idssteve]

Well, if the objective is a pocket friendly handset, size envy and compactness aren't very compatible bedfellows. Nor, "pocket fellows". Lol. Getting a 16:9+ AR acceptably wide inevitably forces a handset to protrude from a "normal" pocket. Adding a keyboard under that portrait 16:9 might force over half of the handset to protrude! And you still can't see the FULL width 'Ben Hur'... lol.
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Life is about compromises AND choices. All guided by individual priorities. Where priorities conflict and suitable compromise can't overcome physical reality, choices between alternatives must be made. ‎
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One size never fits ALL individuals nor all of their pockets. Lol. My 9900 fits my 'Fruit-of-the-Loom' T shirt pocket PERFECTLY. My Classic, does not. Team Chen no doubt hoped a "bigger Bold" form would make Classic even more perfect. Problem is, once "perfection" is achieved, attempts to improve on perfection almost inevitably result in less perfection. Lol.
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The trunk of my father's monster sized 66 Pontiac Bonneville ‎protruded from the 30s vintage garage it was usually parked in. The door could not be closed. Compact 4 cylinder cars were routinely derided as "throwbacks to a Model T age", in 1965. Market experts had proclaimed that "the market had spoken...". BIG was THE market. Everything smaller was just unprofitable niche. Every car dad's owned since 1975 has fit that garage just fine. Lol.
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