Is an all touch phone relevant?

I picked up a 9850 last week, after spending a lot of time in the Verizon store going back and forth between that and the Bold 9930. They weren't next to each other, so I had to keep walking back and forth, but anyway...

I used to have a Curve, then wen Android and all touch screen phones. I got used to the larger screen and didn't miss the hardware keyboard at all. Looking at the 9850/60 forum activity, compared to the new Bold, makes me wonder if RIM needs to even make a an all touch screen phone. And my bigger question is will they support it as much as they would a "traditional" looking BB phone?

Just wondering what long time BB users think of the all touch screen Torch, and if it has any place in the BB lineup.

I saw the 9850 in a UK shop last week. I didnt like it. I guess I spent more time playing around with the new 9360. I have a 9900 and guess as its the form for what RIM are known for it will always be of paramount importance in their range.

There must be a market out there for the full touch Blackberry's but will always be tantamount to their flagship model / forms.

RIM should stick to qwerty keyboard phones. Thats what they still have better than everyone else. That Bold 9900 keyboard is the best I ever used.

I mean how do you convince someone to go with a Torch 9850 with no keyboard when it is basically the same build as an iphone, has the same browser weakness in no flash capabilities, but with far less games and apps?

RIM should stick to being RIM, give us the best keyboards a phone can possibly have along with the stronger battery life, and all those little buttons.

they will need an all touch to support the full capabilities of QNX. The goal is to really break into the general consumer market.... most people want a nice full touch screen. RIM needs to keep this form factor and improve it to get in and stay competitive.

We I show someone my phone, and tell them it's a BlackBerry, they are really surprised. Everyone thinks of the BB as the phone with the keyboard. So I think it's good that they are breaking that stereotype. I was so on the fence between this and the Bold because " "thought" I had to have they keyboard if I was getting a BlackBerry.

But I agree with what @StaticFX said. QNX is optimized for touch screens, especially with all the gestures.

That might be true, but we don't have QNX phones yet. I think its tough to convince people to go with an all touch BB running a traditional BB OS over an Android or iOS based all touch smartphone right at this moment. That may change with QNX, but won't with BB7.

I would have to imagine sales for the new Bold are probably the best of the bunch of the new BB's. Why? It just captures all the things that are great about a Blackberry...

The 9850/60 is a really neat phone, if you can handle the virtual keyboard then it shouldn't be a problem. I've used a Storm and it was god awful (mostly because it was super laggy) and I wanted to throw it out a window, but this phone is dramatically improved over the Storm 1/2, if there's a next generation of it next year with QNX I may get it. And the 3.7" screen is the "right" size, I don't really like 3.2" for full touchscreen.

Originally Posted by jthep

RIM should stick to qwerty keyboard phones. Thats what they still have better than everyone else. That Bold 9900 keyboard is the best I ever used.

I mean how do you convince someone to go with a Torch 9850 with no keyboard when it is basically the same build as an iphone, has the same browser weakness in no flash capabilities, but with far less games and apps?

RIM should stick to being RIM, give us the best keyboards a phone can possibly have along with the stronger battery life, and all those little buttons.

Nope. Evolve, change, or die.

Should Detroit have continued to churn out gas guzzling, big block V8s? Should Ma Bell have stuck by landlines and rotary phones? Should Sony have continued to develop Standard Definition Trinitron Wegas?

The traditional BB form factor worked when all that was expected from a phone was to make phone calls and check e-mail.

All-touch screen phones have become the de facto form factor because of the way that smart phones are used today - phone, digital camera, video camera, GPS device, MP3 player, PDA, handheld video game player, and mini computer. The use drives the form factor. This is what BB did waay back when, and it paid off handsomely. Today, they are letting the form factor drive the use.

They need a qwerty phone bold, and an all touch period. I think they should just make a new Bold every year with improvements and an all touch every year with improvements, and last years models is now the low end model for the current year via a price reduction. This would make only two new phones to actively support, and your support for the lower cost ones is just last years model and know. Simplify and streamline both product offering and what developers have to support. They have way too many different models IMHO now which I think hampers the app ecosystem. Maybe some day down the road you can discontinue the qwerty if sales get low enough.

I'm not so sure all-touch phones are the apex of phone evolution. In fact, I'll bet you eventually even Apple will offer one with a qwerty, and when they do, the iPhanatics will freak out and say **** like, "This is the most amazing thing ever! Once again, Apple releases a ground-breaking product!"

The physical keyboard is the ideal solution to a simple human problem.

At least you never hear BlackBerry users say stuff like, "I've just learned to write shorter emails, and I don't text much anymore."

Typing on touch screens is a pain in the ***.

But then it's like aircraft design--it's all a trade-off. If playing games is of utmost importance to you, get an iPhone or an Android phone. If productivity is most important, get a BlackBerry.

I don't think BlackBerry should try to hide from the productivity image. They should embrace it. They should hammer Apple and Android over it. Put out commercials like this,

"Sure, iPhones are fun." Cut to kid sitting in the backseat of a car on a long trip, being quiet, absorbed in his iPhone games.

"But when you wanna get **** done, you need a BlackBerry." And cut to a mother or father on that same trip, using their BlackBerry handset to do real work. Then, when they're done, patting that cute little kid on the head as he continues to be absorbed in his iPhone game.

Then cut to black screen, white blackberry logo in the center, and under it, "When you want to work. tm"

Or even riff on the Mac/PC commercials:

iPhone (12-year-old kid): "Hi, I'm an iPhone."

BlackBerry (Grown-up): "And I'm a BlackBerry."

iPhone (smugly): "I have access to all kinds of apps and games. I am a genuine entertainment device."

BlackBerry: "That's cool, Kiddo. Games are fun. But check this out: I've got a physical keyboard. I can actually create things. I can write long emails, and text easily. In fact, I just sent your school a long letter explaining how you were skipping school just so you could tell me how cool your iPhone was."

Originally Posted by Burning_Daylight

I'm not so sure all-touch phones are the apex of phone evolution. In fact, I'll bet you eventually even Apple will offer one with a qwerty, and when they do, the iPhanatics will freak out and say **** like, "This is the most amazing thing ever! Once again, Apple releases a ground-breaking product!"

The physical keyboard is the ideal solution to a simple human problem.

At least you never hear BlackBerry users say stuff like, "I've just learned to write shorter emails, and I don't text much anymore."

Typing on touch screens is a pain in the ***.

But then it's like aircraft design--it's all a trade-off. If playing games is of utmost importance to you, get an iPhone or an Android phone. If productivity is most important, get a BlackBerry.

I don't think BlackBerry should try to hide from the productivity image. They should embrace it. They should hammer Apple and Android over it. Put out commercials like this,

"Sure, iPhones are fun." Cut to kid sitting in the backseat of a car on a long trip, being quiet, absorbed in his iPhone games.

"But when you wanna get **** done, you need a BlackBerry." And cut to a mother or father on that same trip, using their BlackBerry handset to do real work. Then, when they're done, patting that cute little kid on the head as he continues to be absorbed in his iPhone game.

Then cut to black screen, white blackberry logo in the center, and under it, "When you want to work. tm"

Typical fanboy arguments that don't hold any actual weight.

Originally Posted by Burning_Daylight

Or even riff on the Mac/PC commercials:

iPhone (12-year-old kid): "Hi, I'm an iPhone."

BlackBerry (Grown-up): "And I'm a BlackBerry."

iPhone (smugly): "I have access to all kinds of apps and games. I am a genuine entertainment device."

BlackBerry: "That's cool, Kiddo. Games are fun. But check this out: I've got a physical keyboard. I can actually create things. I can write long emails, and text easily. In fact, I just sent your school a long letter explaining how you were skipping school just so you could tell me how cool your iPhone was."

LOL, pretty good. Unfortunately, if it were realistic, the kid would say, "uh, old timer, I can text faster than you can, creativity is a given, and my teacher just copied me on your email, but it's truncated, can you tell me exactly what was said?"

Originally Posted by Burning_Daylight

I'm not so sure all-touch phones are the apex of phone evolution. In fact, I'll bet you eventually even Apple will offer one with a qwerty, and when they do, the iPhanatics will freak out and say **** like, "This is the most amazing thing ever! Once again, Apple releases a ground-breaking product!"

The physical keyboard is the ideal solution to a simple human problem.

At least you never hear BlackBerry users say stuff like, "I've just learned to write shorter emails, and I don't text much anymore."

Typing on touch screens is a pain in the ***.

But then it's like aircraft design--it's all a trade-off. If playing games is of utmost importance to you, get an iPhone or an Android phone. If productivity is most important, get a BlackBerry.

I don't think BlackBerry should try to hide from the productivity image. They should embrace it. They should hammer Apple and Android over it. Put out commercials like this,

"Sure, iPhones are fun." Cut to kid sitting in the backseat of a car on a long trip, being quiet, absorbed in his iPhone games.

"But when you wanna get **** done, you need a BlackBerry." And cut to a mother or father on that same trip, using their BlackBerry handset to do real work. Then, when they're done, patting that cute little kid on the head as he continues to be absorbed in his iPhone game.

Then cut to black screen, white blackberry logo in the center, and under it, "When you want to work. tm"

I suppose Blackberry has to offer an all touch screen device to stay competitive.

I'd never get a touch screen BlackBerry. If I want a great all touch I'll stay with Android or go iPhone. They do it best.

I think one of BlackBerry best features are their great keyboards. If I went back to BB from Android ot wouldn't be to a Torch.

I'm hoping the QNX devices are on the Bold Touch form factor. RIM seems a little lost and lacking clear direction right now. They need to focus on what made/makes them great.

Save all touch for PlayBooks!

Originally Posted by lnichols

They need a qwerty phone bold, and an all touch period. I think they should just make a new Bold every year with improvements and an all touch every year with improvements, and last years models is now the low end model for the current year via a price reduction. This would make only two new phones to actively support, and your support for the lower cost ones is just last years model and know. Simplify and streamline both product offering and what developers have to support. They have way too many different models IMHO now which I think hampers the app ecosystem. Maybe some day down the road you can discontinue the qwerty if sales get low enough.

So basically, model themselves after Apple.

Originally Posted by chrisy520

I suppose Blackberry has to offer an all touch screen device to stay competitive.

I'd never get a touch screen BlackBerry. If I want a great all touch I'll stay with Android or go iPhone. They do it best.

I think one of BlackBerry best features are their great keyboards. If I went back to BB from Android ot wouldn't be to a Torch.

I'm hoping the QNX devices are on the Bold Touch form factor. RIM seems a little lost and lacking clear direction right now. They need to focus on what made/makes them great.

Save all touch for PlayBooks!

I'm coming from a Droid X2. And my 2 prior phones were all touch screen Androids. So there is a market for an all touch screen BlackBerry. I got the Torch 9850 because I wanted to bridge to me PlayBook. Had there not been an all touch BB device, I probably would have just stuck with my DX2.

There are some people who have never used a phone with a physical keyboard, so going to one would be just as an adjustment as someone going to an all touch phone. I can type better on the touch screen. Even coming from a 4.3" screen with plenty of real estate to spread the keys out.

Originally Posted by NickA44

I'm coming from a Droid X2. And my 2 prior phones were all touch screen Androids. So there is a market for an all touch screen BlackBerry. I got the Torch 9850 because I wanted to bridge to me PlayBook. Had there not been an all touch BB device, I probably would have just stuck with my DX2.

There are some people who have never used a phone with a physical keyboard, so going to one would be just as an adjustment as someone going to an all touch phone. I can type better on the touch screen. Even coming from a 4.3" screen with plenty of real estate to spread the keys out.

I have tried typing on a touch scree, it sux. I need two hands and focus, I feel like I am doing surgery. With QWERTY keyboards I can sip a cup of coffee in one hand type with the other with my thumb grasping the phone with one hand, With two hands I can thumb away and is a joy to use.

I mean some people enjoy eating using chopsticks as utensils, I prefer a fork. Same reason, I don't like tedious things when I am doing anything. Touch typing has corrective messaging too, but even that can be annoying at times. Keys just feel better...

Having a preference for a keyboard on your phone is perfectly valid of course. The trouble (for RIM) is that the vast majority of smartphone users have never used anything other than touch screens.

Touch screen phones have a far higher profit margin than phones with keyboards. The assembly is far easier and there are obviously fewer moving parts and the motherboard and case are simpler too.

Whilst great strides have been made to make touch screen phones work like real keyboards and many are the screen shortcuts to improve usability, I shall always prefer a real keyboard.

RIM has to be in the market with a touch screen only phone but most people who type a lot on their phones must surely view touch screen ony phones with some suspicion.

For me a touch screen only phone will forever be the poor relation of the cell phone breed.

Originally Posted by tchocky77

So basically, model themselves after Apple.

Kinda but they would still have a keyboard and an all touch. And you can't argue with the results that Apple has seen in sales. I bet they sell a ton of iPhone4 still this year because it's half the price and looks the same as the 4s. Look at these 9780/90 messages that RIM is sending to developers telling them they need to modify their apps now to support touch on the 360x480 resolution. Developers have to currently support 3 different touch screen sizes on OS7 , and a non-touch one, and they are adding a 4th touch screen size?!?! Apple only has to support a couple right now (Retina, and pre-Retina). KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid (Stupid being RIM in this case)). I know the Curve line is popular seller, but its more about price than the hardware, so I think a Bold 9900 a year from now at half the price on contract would sell just as well as the Curves do. There is nothing wrong with adopting practices of the competition that work. In fact I think that if QNX all touch phones take off, then RIM should look at a QNX touch that would be like the iPod touch with WiFi. Let it access BBM, app store, movie's, Videoconferencing, etc. And I still believe that they will need a 9 to 10" Playbook at some point as some people/businesses are just focused on screen size. No reason to ignore potential markets that require only product repackaging and minimal R&D.

The simple matter of it is, if RIM wants to have any hope of gaining shares of the consumer market, they need to offer a large-screened touch phone. It's what the consumer market (especially in North America) wants, and they've voted with their cash.

They don't need to discontinue physical keyboards, there will always be users that will prefer that, but to say "Blackberry has always done physical keyboards best and thus should only ever do it that way" is the way to sink the company. Saying "Blackberries are for business, iPhones are for fun" isn't any better. Not if you want to turn a profit in an evolving consumer market. You can't tell the consumer what they want, you have to see what they want and deliver.

Happened with computers. Started out they were for business, then the consumer market grew and now you have them aimed at consumers first. Mobile phones started out as a much smaller business market and then grew into an even larger consumer market. Smartphones started as a business market, and are continuing to grow into a much larger consumer market. So you either change with the market or don't complain when you are last because the average person off the street isn't interested in "just good for business".

How many different phones does Apple have? ONE! Rim needs to cut back on the number of models they have to maybe 3 a 9900, torch and a large touch screen. Perfect these phones(os and hardware) and stop spreading themselves thin. Only do major software upgrades like Apple instead of these half baked leaks! Get it together RIM! BB forever, maybe! :D