[Prem WatsApp]

Having something for everyone would be nice. But given the company's current state I don't think that is possible. At least PKBS play to the company's strengths. And devices like the Passport are unique and standout. The all touch BB10 devices were constantly compared to iPhones and Androids during their reviews and usually always viewed as coming up short. BlackBerry would need something really unique to make an all touch competitive.

I mean the Q10 and Q5 performed poorly but so did the Z10 and the Z30. The issue seems to be more that BlackBerry struggles to move all their devices and not just the PKB ones. Has there been any solid proof that a VKB flagship would sell in high numbers?

Posted via CB10

That's why the Zlider makes so much sense.

You're adding an **optional-use** keyboard that could be a game-changer for 16:9 power users, combined with the rounded screen edges...


�   Passposted while waiting for the Zzzzzlider....   �

[lnichols]

Has there been any solid proof that a VKB flagship would sell in high numbers?

Posted via CB10

Has there been any proof that a PKB flagship would sell in high numbers? Haven't heard much on Passport lately and they seem to be discounting it quite often now.

Posted via CB10

[Couver81]

Has there been any proof that a PKB flagship would sell in high numbers? Haven't heard much on Passport lately and they seem to be discounting it quite often now.

Posted via CB10

No there hasn't. That's my point. BlackBerry is struggling to sell phones period. PKB or VKB it hasn't mattered. I don't think a full tough flagship is going to fly off the shelves considering the other 2 forays into full touch did not sell either. I do wish they'd put one out because like I said choice is good and it would be nice to have something for everyone. But their resources are clearly limited. For better or worse they are known for their keyboards and I think they are trying to hang on to that niche.

Prem I agree with you about the slider. I think trying out unique form factors is the way to go.

[Sulaco757]

Not really surprised by this. I like that they're looking at the "addressable market," positioning themselves to exploit unaddressed hardware niches, and moving cross-platform in software.

As far as all-touch devices go, it's a good strategy to let Samsung, HTC, and LG lose money on the handsets, and focus on supplying software solutions.

^This^

If Samsung is losing out on the Full touch market, what makes you think BlackBerry can succeed? BlackBerry needs to find its own niche, what brings people to them instead of all the others. PKB is part of that strategy. The Zlider brings the best of both worlds, something unique Samsung and HTC can't.

Do I want to see a Z50 fully spec'd and competitive? Yes. But look how long it takes BlackBerry to design phones. Passport, 2-3 years, Classic took a whole year to develop and it's a Q10 with a toolbelt. The Leap is a Z30, stripped down and without the good looks. Who knows how long the slider has been in the works, and even then they had what looks like a prototype on stage. It *might* be ready for release this fall. BlackBerry just isn't in the position to pump out brand new cutting edge headsets every 6 months like Samsung. They have to find their innovation through other means.

With all this collaboration with Samsung and Amazon, I think longtime BlackBerry fans should consider what those kind of agreements entail when you're the weaker party. BlackBerry was probably hamstrung in its Samsung agreement alone to stay out of the consumer all- touch market. If so that's fine, but give us a Galaxy S6 with BB10 dualboot/bootcamp on it already.

That's what I think every time I hear John Chen having to but "enterprise " in front of his target market. Leap for "young professionals" alright. Sounds like someone's lawyers had to censor.

 Q10 

[Sulaco757]

Why in the world would Samsung license an OS with less than 1% market share?

Posted via CB10

It's secure.

 Q10 

[GadgetTravel]

It's secure.

 Q10 

Why would they care if it can't attract market share. Then there is the whole, is it really secure if you aren't on BES problem.

[lnichols]

No there hasn't. That's my point. BlackBerry is struggling to sell phones period. PKB or VKB it hasn't mattered. I don't think a full tough flagship is going to fly off the shelves considering the other 2 forays into full touch did not sell either. I do wish they'd put one out because like I said choice is good and it would be nice to have something for everyone. But their resources are clearly limited. For better or worse they are known for their keyboards and I think they are trying to hang on to that niche.

Prem I agree with you about the slider. I think trying out unique form factors is the way to go.

OK so BlackBerry has sold a lot of all touch BB10 devices out of the total number of BB10 devices that were sold, by all guesses and developer data, more than PKB. We have no proof that the Passport or Classic are selling well which we were told they would because PKB and tool belt is what BlackBerry users want. So they are not making any replacement device for the all touch devices that sold a lot relative to the total BB10 user base.

Seems like a winning strategy to not provide and update path to the people who have bought more of your new devices than the precious "niche" who are not buying them.

Posted via CB10

[cbvinh]

OK so BlackBerry has sold a lot of all touch BB10 devices out of the total number of BB10 devices that were sold, by all guesses and developer data, more than PKB. We have no proof that the Passport or Classic are selling well which we were told they would because PKB and tool belt is what BlackBerry users want. So they are not making any replacement device for the all touch devices that sold a lot relative to the total BB10 user base.

Seems like a winning strategy to not provide and update path to the people who have bought more of your new devices than the precious "niche" who are not buying them.

Were people buying them because of full touch or because BlackBerry was dumping Z10's after the near billion dollar write down? If it's the latter, then there's no profit to be made with full touch. If BlackBerry made money with the Passport and Classic, even at low volumes compared to the Z10's, then that's still profit.

[Rooster99]

John Chen states in this interview that all future BlackBerry devices will have a physical keyboard. He says it around the 0:50 to 1:00 mark:

CEO lays out Blackberry's future - CNN Video

Posted via CB10

You missed the part where he says all the new phones "... for the balance of the year ...". So, no worries.

- R.

[eyesopen1111]

That's why the Zlider makes so much sense.

You're adding an **optional-use** keyboard that could be a game-changer for 16:9 power users, combined with the rounded screen edges...


�   Passposted while waiting for the Zzzzzlider....   �

I'll have whatever Prem is having, because it must be good stuff if he thinks that the power user smartphone segment will consider the BlackBerry Zlider a "game changer." Hah! The smartphone PKB is the buggy whip of the smartphone age, and power users are the first to see this. If anything, power users tend to like landscape sliders, not portrait, but even landscape sliders are dead, dead, dead.

BlackBerry needs to let keyboards go, not all at once, but keyboard phones should be given very little focus. What further pain can the marketplace inflict on BlackBerry, short of burning down their office space, to get the message across that the keyboard phone focus and the "we're the only smartphone company that doesn't need an all-touch flagship" nonsense are terrible ideas? From where I stand, the marketplace has spoken loudly, clearly, and repeatedly to this effect. I'm certain we'll hear this message again next official report, and with little to hide the Passport and Classic sales results, we'll see whether Chen has halted or reversed the slide. Or maybe put the company into a deeper hardware nosedive.

[cbvinh]

BlackBerry needs to let keyboards go, not all at once, but keyboard phones should be given very little focus. What further pain can the marketplace inflict on BlackBerry, short of burning down their office space, to get the message across that the keyboard phone focus and the "we're the only smartphone company that doesn't need an all-touch flagship" nonsense are terrible ideas? From where I stand, the marketplace has spoken loudly, clearly, and repeatedly to this effect. I'm certain we'll hear this message again next official report, and with little to hide the Passport and Classic sales results, we'll see whether Chen has halted or reversed the slide. Or maybe put the company into a deeper hardware nosedive.

Keyboards are where BlackBerry can actually see profitable sales. It's where people who want keyboards will actually switch from Android, iOS, Windows Phone, etc. to BlackBerry. If BlackBerry were to make a high-end full touch device, who would that satisfy? A subset of the current full touch users, mainly because it would be priced high and a lot of people who picked up the Z3's and Z10's did so because of the price. Even if BlackBerry could make the high-spec device equivalent to the flagship devices from Apple, Samsung, LG, HTC, etc., would it attract new users? All things being equal hardware-wise, there's still the issue of ecosystem.

What can we conclude? A high-spec full touch device will have sales less than the number of current full touch users, which is less than the number of BlackBerry keyboard users, BB10 and legacy. It wouldn't attract users from other OS'es to switch over because hardware isn't everything.

[Sulaco757]

BlackBerry needs to let keyboards go, not all at once, but keyboard phones should be given very little focus. What further pain can the marketplace inflict on BlackBerry, short of burning down their office space, to get the message across that the keyboard phone focus and the "we're the only smartphone company that doesn't need an all-touch flagship" nonsense are terrible ideas? From where I stand, the marketplace has spoken loudly, clearly, and repeatedly to this effect. I'm certain we'll hear this message again next official report, and with little to hide the Passport and Classic sales results, we'll see whether Chen has halted or reversed the slide. Or maybe put the company into a deeper hardware nosedive.

Loudly, Clearly, and Repeatedly? For the first year Chen came on board all he could here from BB7 holdouts (his base and paying customers) was that there was no better alternative to the 9900. That coupled with market analysis and reviews of BlackBerry stating they should never have run after fickle consumer wants and instead focus on enterprise needs.

It took BlackBerry a year to roll out the Classic, which we can only hope is enough for the legacy holdouts. Most would say they just wish their 9900s could run BB10. All while the full touch user base is using perfectly good Z10s or Z30s. The Z30 specifically competes with current "mid grade" competitors.

I suppose it's just a matter of perspective. Android users have about a year before their devices lag or get buggy. iPhone users roughly 1.5 years. If BlackBerry followed that business philosophy then they Really would be out of the full touch market, as those Zs would be bricks.

 Q10 

[eyesopen1111]

Keyboards are where BlackBerry can actually see profitable sales. It's where people who want keyboards will actually switch from Android, iOS, Windows Phone, etc. to BlackBerry. If BlackBerry were to make a high-end full touch device, who would that satisfy? A subset of the current full touch users, mainly because it would be priced high and a lot of people who picked up the Z3's and Z10's did so because of the price. Even if BlackBerry could make the high-spec device equivalent to the flagship devices from Apple, Samsung, LG, HTC, etc., would it attract new users? All things being equal hardware-wise, there's still the issue of ecosystem.

What can we conclude? A high-spec full touch device will have sales less than the number of current full touch users, which is less than the number of BlackBerry keyboard users, BB10 and legacy. It wouldn't attract users from other OS'es to switch over because hardware isn't everything.

The all-touch flagship would appeal to all of the Z-series BlackBerry customers who are pleading for an upgrade path all over this forum! It could also be considered by the 99% of smartphone buyers who wouldn't ever consider a PKB device. If BlackBerry could win the same percentage of customers from a larger customer base, the VKB flagship could outsell this year's PKB flagship, the Passport. From what I've seen, it could hardly do worse. And there seems to be more evidence that VKB BlackBerry 10 Z-series users outnumber PKB BB10 users than the opposite, but the issue is at least debatable.

And let's wait until more sales numbers from BlackBerry come out before we declare the Passport or Classic a success. I think that the likelihood is that they will be market failures, so we have to wait for the best numbers come out. And where are you getting information about keyboard BlackBerries bringing customers in from rival OSes? The declining numbers from BlackBerry suggest that BlackBerry customers are defecting to other OSes, not the other way around. At the Apple event, they boasted about the unprecedented 99% customer satisfaction rate of the iPhone 6 and 6+ line. Are those customers defecting to BlackBerry? Hopefully a second device? And maybe BlackBerry can grab a few Windows Phone customers, but I wouldn't hold my breath for much beyond that, and those will be harder to win if MS's Windows 10 is any good. Truth is, net customer flow is probably negative for BlackBerry vs every other OS.

[Supa_Fly1]

$%$#% Chen. I hope he just misspoke. A full touch upgrade would sell more than the Passport and IF the Passport is profitable in current sales than another full touch model would too.

Actually Chen is SPOT ON!

Read this and I DARE you to prove me wrong. In what market or target market has ANY BlackBerry full touch device EVER outsold or even matched up to 40% of the sales of ANY of the keyboard based devices?

Storm vs Curve 8300/8320
Storm II vs Bold 9700
Torch full Touch vs Bold 9780 /9900
Z10 vs Q10
Z30 vs 9900/Q10/Passport (take your pick)

I'll go one better to help you, pick any of BlackBerry 's fiscal financial quarters to prove it.

Sure your me and a LOT of BlackBerry users want a sleek and powerful classy yet sturdy high end Z30 replacement - heck I want it to have a sick name like Avenger or Panther or Blackness but it's Chen is looking financially and realizing the demand at the mid or High end is not enough to sustain the R&D at least this year to develop one and goto Foxconn to produce it.

PS: that doesn't mean BlackBerry hasn't designed on and it doesn't stop them from licensing production directly from Samsung and placing their BB10 OS on it.

Posted via CB10

[Zeratul57]

Buy a z30 and enjoy life. It's not time for a z30 replacement. Next year. No problem.

Posted from a Z30. Get one!