[Tyler Nellissen]

A lot of people on the forum wish that BB would step up it's advertising presence, while I tend to agree advertising doesn't guarantee anything would change. Just thought the below article could add a little perspective to the advertising bane of BB.

Take a look at this recent article about Microsofts Surface, MS advertised the **** out of. I couldn't turn around without seeing a commercial or billboard for this thing and yet it did really poorly.

Microsoft's Bumbled Surface Strategy Generated Just $853 in Revenue | Maximum PC

Surface is officially a flop

Maybe Microsoft should have listened to its hardware partners when they pissed and moaned about the Redmond outfit deciding to build its own hardware. Acer was especially outspoken, warning Microsoft on several occasions that competing in the hardware space is a whole different ballgame than software, but those warnings fell on deaf ears and now Microsoft is paying the price.

We already know that Microsoft took a $900 million charge on unsold Surface RT inventory, but what wasn't revealed until now is how much revenue its Surface tablets generated. According to a recent 10-K filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), Microsoft's entire Surface revenue was just $853 million, or $47 million less than the charge it took on Surface RT.

At $500 a pop. that equates to around 1.7 million Surface tablets sold through the end of June. Microsoft can't be happy with that figure, especially after noting that its sales and marketing expenses increased $1 billion year-over-year, or 34 percent, reflecting an $898 million increase in advertising costs associated primarily with Windows 8 and Surface - ouch.

[Kris Simundson]

To be honest, M$ has so much money, writing off the Surface RT tablets(Note*They still have the Surface Pro Tablets*), was a joke to them.

[scorpiodsu]

I agree that advertising doesn't not equal sales. People have the notion that because Apple is so good at marketing and Samsung has become good at it and they both sell so many devices, they automatically equate the 2. While advertising/marketing does put more awareness out there about your brand and allows you to showcase compelling features, in the long wrong it only works in the product that's being advertised is good enough. So while people around here are quick to blame advertising and say Apple and Samsung only sell a lot only because they advertise well is basically saying the devices they sell are crap. They don't want to admit that while being marketing powerhouses, they also make good products because that would mean that Blackbery's products aren't comparable in addition to poor marketing. Honestly, that's my contention right now with blackberry 10 and the devices..... they just aren't good enough to compete. Not only because of poor marketing but because of the app problems and what think is most important it doesn't have the services and ecosystem that both Google and Apple provide to their customers.

People are just comparing device to device and think that is it. It's not. It's all those other things that come along with the device too where blackberry cannot compete right now. And granted, it's a new OS so it's to be expected to some degree but people around here are quick to say BB10 is way better than iOS and Android while in the same breath say "give it some time, it's a new OS". So while I agree about the effect marketing could have, I also think it's that and the product that isn't good. There's a reason US carriers don't care about BB10 devices. They obviously don't think it's worth the effort. Even those on legacy blackberries haven't bene quick to adopt BB10. People automatically thought that large user base would migrate and would equate to fantastic sales for BB10. Didn't work out that way. Why? Because they created a platform that doesn't do what the competition does as well (in some cases) or better AND at the same time doesn't even do some of the things that made the old BB great. For God sake, people are arguing all over this forum about why the legacy is better. In my opinion, there should be no question about which is better. And of course many users are just stuck in their ways but BB10 really doesn't do anything compelling at the moment or modest hardware with poor marketing. That would be a problem for any company. Having said all that, I do hope it turns around for them. We need to have more competing platforms so we can have options of better products and for these companies to continue to push each other to the next level. So let's all hope BB does really make a comeback. Doesn't have to be the top OS in the world again but just not go away.

[cgk]

Unless I read it wrong the most interesting aspect was that Sinoksky's payoff prevents him working for apple, Google, Amazon and others but they weren't bothered about BBRY.

Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk 2

[k_a_s_m_i_t_h]

I agree with the thought that advertising doesn't equal sales, BUT advertising does increase brand awareness....which is something blackberry is sorely lacking. Brand awareness can certainly help with sales.

So many business colleges and friends are so surprised when they see my Z10 because they didn't know about the new phones/OS.

Posted via CB10

[boeingrules]

Advertising definitely opens up the possibility of increased sales. It's far from a bad thing.

Posted via CB10

[md386]

I don't think that the product is the problem. I've switched from an iPhone as my main device to a Z10, and my wife has switched to a Q10 and loves it. However, she likely wouldn't have known that the Q10 existed if not for my interest in phones. She certainly never would have walked into a store and demanded one (which is practically what it takes in some stores to avoid being handed a GS4 or iPhone...)

BB10 has a "chicken and egg" problem in the US. Salesmen don't think it's worth bothering with because people don't come in asking for it. Easier to sell phones that people are already familar with. Nokia has had a similar problem with their (increasingly nice) Lumias. AT&T put up banners and ran ads for the Lumia 920, but the sales force made little effort to push it, so it didn't sell particularly well.

No amount of advertising alone is going to overcome this for BlackBerry. They need to combine an aggressive advertising campaign with a way to combat lack of interest at retailers. I think a rep in a BlackBerry shirt hanging around the Z10 displays at Best Buy would be money well spent, for example. They need people who are passionate about BlackBerry and understand the advantages of BB10. BB10's advantages are somewhat subtle, and you need people who can communicate that effectively in a retail setting.

[FFR]

Unless I read it wrong the most interesting aspect was that Sinoksky's payoff prevents him working for apple, Google, Amazon and others but they weren't bothered about BBRY.
Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk

Who would be? What reason would they have?

At least it wasn't a surprise.

Microsoft: we're third place with Windows Phone, not afraid of BlackBerry

Microsoft: we're third place with Windows Phone, not afraid of BlackBerry | The Verge

[Just Me]

Advertising definitely opens up the possibility of increased sales. It's far from a bad thing.

Posted via CB10

Poorly placed advertising is a bad thing. It reduces profits or it diverts money away from the product itself. The BB is now a niche product, the advertising has to be specific and niche as well.

[Just Me]

Who would be? What reason would they have?

At least it wasn't a surprise.

Microsoft: we're third place with Windows Phone, not afraid of BlackBerry

Microsoft: we're third place with Windows Phone, not afraid of BlackBerry | The Verge

Yeah they should be afraid of themselves. They took a good operating system and completely ruined it. My experience with Windows 8 has guaranteed that I'll never buy a Windows phone.

[ajst222]

Here's the thing, OP: BlackBerry has a great product (BB10). But nobody knows about it. As long as BlackBerry can show off their great product and make people aware of the brand and company, it should result in sales. You can't possibly say that good advertising won't change anything. Not only does BlackBerry need to show with their marketing what a great product they have, they also need to prove that they are still in it. That means that they need to change their perception of consumers from "lame" to "cool"

[hoopitz]

BlackBerry is very different than Microsoft, in this case. BlackBerry has always been a hardware supplier while Microsoft has been a software supplier. Microsoft was trying to get into a whole other ball game, while BlackBerry is just trying to compete in the one that it's already in. Further more, BlackBerry has already been successful in this market. Advertising is NOT a bad thing. Bad advertising IS a bad thing, however. BlackBerry needs to increase awareness of it's new products with a lot of good advertising. I know it can be easier said than done, but that's why a lot of people get paid a lot of money to do this kind of stuff.

[ajst222]

Poorly placed advertising is a bad thing. It reduces profits or it diverts money away from the product itself. The BB is now a niche product, the advertising has to be specific and niche as well.

Thanks for bringing that up! What you said is basically what BlackBerry has done.
Good marketing + good product = positive recognition = sales
Bad marketing + good product = negative or no recognition = no sales

[ajst222]

The Surface RT was a terrible idea from the start. A Windows tablet that can't run Windows apps? What's the point? The Surface Pro looks great but there are competitors that have very good products like it.

Since the Windows Phone is basically a small RT, it suffers the same limitation. Out of the box Windows apps won't run.

BlackBerry has some missing apps to, but there's a difference. It doesn't have an extensive portfolio of apps that customers would expect to work on it. Also, BlackBerry comes with more capabilities out of the box. I.E., it is quite functional without apps.

Not at all. The Surface RT is a tablet...meant to compete with tablets. The Surface Pro is meant to compete with Ultrabooks. As a tablet, the Surface RT should have blown away the competition because the functionality level is higher. However, I am not blaming you for the misconception because Microsoft should have done a better job clarifying that the RT is supposed to be a tablet competitor.

[FFR]

Thanks for bringing that up! What you said is basically what BlackBerry has done.
Good marketing + good product = positive recognition = sales
Bad marketing + good product = negative or no recognition = no sales

Antennagate did not stop apple with the iPhone 4, or the 4s or the 5.

What about the iPad?
I remember quite vividly, the media and even a lot of people here on crackberry, calling the iPad a big iPod touch or comparing it to a tampon

Consumers still bought it.

Your premise is incorrect, it's not the marketing but the product. Consumers are just not interested in BB10 in its current incarnation.

[ajst222]

Antennagate did not stop apple with the iPhone 4, or the 4s or the 5.

What about the iPad?
I remember quite vividly, the media and even a lot of people here on crackberry, calling the iPad a big iPod touch or comparing it to a tampon

Consumers still bought it.

Your premise is incorrect, it's not the marketing but the product. Consumers are just not interested in BB10 in its current incarnation.

My equations are taking about BB10 right now. Tell me...what good marketing has BlackBerry done for BB10? It's not that consumers aren't interested. They just don't know about it. It's the job of the marketing department to make people interested. Apple has done a great job with that. BlackBerry has not.


Posted via CB10

[cyberjunkie1]

Advertising also can help change people's perception. Considering that the perception with BlackBerry for a lot of people isn't that great due to past mistakes, they really need to reach out to everyone and get them to change their minds for the better.

Posted via CB10

[ajst222]

Advertising also can help change people's perception. Considering that the perception with BlackBerry for a lot of people isn't that great due to past mistakes, they really need to reach out to everyone and get them to change their minds for the better.

Posted via CB10

Exactly. For BlackBerry, that is a huge part of it.

Posted via CB10

[DJRikko]

While I tend to agree with the fact that BlackBerry has not done a good job with their advertising and marketing, I am of the idea that they need more even if that doesn't guarantee sales. Here's what my reasoning is:

First off, advertising is expensive, and if they are going to blitz the world (or just the US) with an advertising campaign, they need to have the cash to burn. I think right now they might be a bit hesitant to do so. Having said that, they did do a Super Bowl commercial, which, in my opinion was a big waste of money. You either spend or not, but don't half-*** it. That commercial needed a backup advertising follow up campaign and marketing to go with it. It got nearly nothing.

The point of advertising is to create awareness for your brand or product, and the marketing serves to increase sales. I agree with some people's point that awareness lacks and people don't know about BlackBerry 10. And I also agree with people who say that even if they advertise, it's not a guarantee of sales, but only because the marketing isn't there.

Secondly, saying that people don't want BlackBerry is a bold statement, but it does have some truth in it. A lot of people still remember the hourglass, battery pulls, and all the other annoyances of the old OS. So the advertising that BlackBerry did was ok (the commercials themselves were ok, the campaign was garbage) to create awareness of the new OS, but there was no follow up to help customers differentiate BlackBerry 10 from BlackBerry OS, and furthermore, from the competition.

Communicating the difference and the features of BlackBerry 10 needs to be done. No, it doesn't guarantee sales, but it helps create awareness that is needed. The marketing to back up the Advertising also needs to be there, and that has been nearly nonexistent. If you have BlackBerry reps at every store, the # of cases of people being told NOT to get a BlackBerry 10 phone by some ****** AT&T rep will go down significantly. Coupons or credits, better display at stores, all the marketing that should have been there from day one, needs to get done.

Is the OS incomplete and that is why people won't buy? No. There are various reasons why BlackBerry is behind (apps, etc.) but communication is essential between the brand and the customer so that people don't feel cheated when they get a Z10 and it turns out that it doesn't have Instagram available, so then they return it and say "same old BlackBerry ".

In my opinion, BlackBerry needs to make a big investment in advertising and marketing; much more than what they have done so far. In other words: "Do or do not. There is no try."

Posted via CB10

[Cesare21]

My equations are taking about BB10 right now. Tell me...what good marketing has BlackBerry done for BB10? It's not that consumers aren't interested. They just don't know about it. It's the job of the marketing department to make people interested. Apple has done a great job with that. BlackBerry has not.


Posted via CB10

I completely agree with this statement. When friends saw my Z, they were fully surprised to know BBRY launched with a new OS that doesn't need a reboot and looks flashy as well. This is where BBRY's marketing failed terribly, the marketing/advertising did not make aware that a brand new OS is being launched.

[Tyler Nellissen]

Would it be wrong to have a campaign full of people pulling their battery, having their trackball pop out, the clock of death etc, and then have new blackberry shown. Something that says, remember that old BlackBerry you hated? This isn't that. Everything you loved about BlackBerry and nothing you hated sorta thing. I think marketing is good but it has to make sense and tell a story. Does TH even watch madmen?

Posted via CB10

[ajst222]

Would it be wrong to have a campaign full of people pulling their battery, having their trackball pop out, the clock of death etc, and then have new blackberry shown. Something that says, remember that old BlackBerry you hated? This isn't that. Everything you loved about BlackBerry and nothing you hated sorta thing. I think marketing is good but it has to make sense and tell a story. Does TH even watch madmen?

Posted via CB10

You bring up a good point. BlackBerry needs to drive the point home that BB10 isn't even in the same family as BBOS. They need to let consumers know it was built brand new from scratch and it is something fresh

Posted via CB10

[cgk]

Would it be wrong to have a campaign full of people pulling their battery, having their trackball pop out, the clock of death etc, and then have new blackberry shown. Something that says, remember that old BlackBerry you hated? This isn't that. Everything you loved about BlackBerry and nothing you hated sorta thing. I think marketing is good but it has to make sense and tell a story. Does TH even watch madmen?

Posted via CB10

Only problem is that bbry still * sell * the old bbry...

[sinsin07]

BB10 has a "chicken and egg" problem in the US.

Ok. Lets say that explains the US problem. What about the rest of the world? 1.7million devices sold, the sum of all markets available.

The US is unique. They have three home grown mobile operating systems. No need for US to go outside their borders for mobile.

Blackberry's problem is not the US. Blackberry's problem is the world.

[Moonbase0ne]

Ok. Lets say that explains the US problem. What about the rest of the world? 1.7million devices sold, the sum of all markets available.

Blackberries problem is bigger than the US.

Some what off topic, but I remember all the stories of people coming from other OS's to get the new Z10 and also how the Z10 was being sold out at a lot of shops in the UK and other places. it just makes you realize, don't put to much stock in stories that may sound too good to be true until you actually have to real numbers behind them.

For me, that is what was so shocking about the official numbers that were released by Thor.