[qbnkelt]

hhhmmm....I kinda like the different flavours. After all, not everybody is crazy about chocolate.

[Davec1234]

6.0 will be old news when it comes out. I seriously doubt it will compete with Android 3.0 when that is out.
One never knows until release though.
I have ZERO regrets moving on. I will take another look at BB after they get it together. It's all about what's best @ the time of need/want.

[berryite]

Being an owner of a Nexus One, an iPhone 3G and a dedicated Blackberry 9700 owner I have to agree with this commentary.

He forgot to add that RIM needs to get rid of threaded sms or learn how to do it right.

[CanuckBB]

Some big misconceptions going on here.


Lets not forget about their large corporate and government contracts where the employees MUST use a BB. Is that really depicting the consumer's choice? I think it toally skews the numbers in terms of saying well BB has the biggest marketshare so people are ok with it how it is. Maybe so, if you subtract out the corporate and government contract where BB is mandatory and look at where people actually have a choice. THAT is the true test of do people actually prefer BB over other platforms.

The corporation or the government dept IS the consumer. When I decided to recommend BB for my company, it is consumer choice. If I had gone with the iPhone, does that mean that Apple could not count those devices in their sales?

RIM thrives on quantity not on quality (of their ecosystem that is like the OS). They sell 2 dozen different models because they couldnt sell millions of any one model like an iphone, let alone over 1 week like Apple does. So they count on selling a few of every one out there and it all adds up.

Funny. People buy the different models because they prefer on over the other. If there were less models, they would find the one that closest matches their needs and get that. It's about choice.

[scorpiodsu]

If anyone thinks RIM doesn't need to change a thing they are kidding themselves. So they should just sit back and pump out the same devices and watch Apple and Google take their market share? Yeah that's good business. The whole thing about technology is that it's always changing. RIM must didn't get this memo. Buy the time blackberries get a decent browser no one will care because other phones will be doing more stuff and RIM's big change was a browser that was 4 years too late. And let's be honest if the iPhone was BOGO and could be found on every carrier in the US, RIM's market share would diminish much more quickly. As Android keeps coming out with devices and Apple makes a good product that will eventually go beyond AT&T, RIM will be in trouble.

I don't want RIM to be Palm but some changes need to be made in order to stop from going that way. And stop it with the "this device is for business" crap. RIM wants consumers to buy their devices as much as businesses. And a lot of consumers bought blackberries because it was "cool" and it was a status thing. But it's getting pretty old. Even RIM's strong points are getting weaker. I don't care about BIS service when I don't have full html email, truncated messages, can't view and organize my folders. RIM has a lot to do and if anyone thinks they are ok where they are then you are as naive as they are.

[scorpiodsu]

The corporation or the government dept IS the consumer. When I decided to recommend BB for my company, it is consumer choice. If I had gone with the iPhone, does that mean that Apple could not count those devices in their sales?



Funny. People buy the different models because they prefer on over the other. If there were less models, they would find the one that closest matches their needs and get that. It's about choice.

Yeah how many people start threads on here because they can't tell the difference. And some people just buy them because they want the newest one. But seriously, what is the biggest difference between an 8900 and a 8520? Slight design difference. Is it worth paying 200 to upgrade and extend a contract 2 years when both devices are really the same? Come on now, let be honest about it. And then you'll switch to the 8530 and then RIM comes out with another 3 months later that does nothing different. They've been doing that for the past couple years. Before then, they did not push out a bunch of redundant devices. It seems they believe flooding the market is the best way rather than being innovative.

[CanuckBB]

Nobody ever said that you must upgrade your device every 3 months.

Look, you get a BB that fits your needs. At a certain point you may want to upgrade. But you don't have to just because there's a new shinny one just out.

If RIM didn't come out with new devices, everybody would be moaning as to why RIM is just stagnant.

The browser could stand some improvement. However, I don't thing the OS needs a lot. It works. It may not look as cool as the iPhone, but I do suspect that RIM, even in the consumer market, is going after function over looks.

And for that, they'll find their audience.

[MrObvious]

I'm not gonna lie, the Tour and Bold both look pretty sweet on the outside. Blackberry phones are starting to look sexy on the outside.

[evilhunter101]

Yeah how many people start threads on here because they can't tell the difference. And some people just buy them because they want the newest one. But seriously, what is the biggest difference between an 8900 and a 8520? Slight design difference. Is it worth paying 200 to upgrade and extend a contract 2 years when both devices are really the same? Come on now, let be honest about it. And then you'll switch to the 8530 and then RIM comes out with another 3 months later that does nothing different. They've been doing that for the past couple years. Before then, they did not push out a bunch of redundant devices. It seems they believe flooding the market is the best way rather than being innovative.

Ever heard of this little thing called the iPhone 3GS? Turns out millions of people bought it because it was the newest one, had a slight internal design difference from the 3G, and extended their contract 2 years even though their 3G was essentially the same as the 3GS. More so, millions of 3GS users are now saving up to get the "4G" when it is released...interesting concept isn't it?

[stuaw11]

The corporation or the government dept IS the consumer. When I decided to recommend BB for my company, it is consumer choice. If I had gone with the iPhone, does that mean that Apple could not count those devices in their sales?

No but do gov agencies and healthcare workers have a choice b/c of federal laws involving security of data? They dont have a choice, BB is the only one who provides that kind of security. Thats not a consumer choice, thats a mandate. And in your proposed case, its also likely choosing an ecosystem over the device itself- the BES for its advantages rather then the BB phones; the phones are what's being discussed.

Theres also a HUGE difference between a BES consumer and a BIS general population consumer who dont get the BES features. Were talking general population consumer who doesnt need to use BES for work, who can actively choose any device they want.

Ever heard of this little thing called the iPhone 3GS? Turns out millions of people bought it because it was the newest one, had a slight internal design difference from the 3G, and extended their contract 2 years even though their 3G was essentially the same as the 3GS. More so, millions of 3GS users are now saving up to get the "4G" when it is released...interesting concept isn't it?

There's a big difference between an expected ONE model per year, and buying a phone to have it updated 6 months later to where it should have been with the 9700- ie. Tour -> Tour 2. Look at the 8900, people bought it sans 3g only to have the basically same phone released with 3G in the 9700. RIM is NOTORIOUS for doing this.

By now its pretty common knowledge every June/July a new iphone comes out, no sooner, no later. And the 2g to 3g was a big jump, the 3g to 3gs was likely a gap filler for the year. Its not even fair to assess it until the 4g comes out, it should be another huge jump in tech. RIM hasnt jumped that much in tech in the last 20 phone models released, let alone 3 going on 4.

[dwaynewilliams#WN]

I don't really understand why everyone think that RIM is failing so badly to make a quality device. If the browser is improved (which we know it will be) I would running back to BlackBerry in a hurry. I love evwrythinf else about BlackBerry devices. I am very comfortable with the operating system and the phone performs admirably. I event seen better battery life on a device. Also, I haven't seen a smartphone handle messaging anywhere near a BlackBerry device.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[dwaynewilliams#WN]

Yeah how many people start threads on here because they can't tell the difference. And some people just buy them because they want the newest one. But seriously, what is the biggest difference between an 8900 and a 8520? Slight design difference. Is it worth paying 200 to upgrade and extend a contract 2 years when both devices are really the same? Come on now, let be honest about it. And then you'll switch to the 8530 and then RIM comes out with another 3 months later that does nothing different. They've been doing that for the past couple years. Before then, they did not push out a bunch of redundant devices. It seems they believe flooding the market is the best way rather than being innovative.

Why would you buy a new device every three months? If you wait the two years that you are supposed to, you will find that the upgrade should be worthy. I think that people get. caught up in getting new devices all the time. You have to wait for major upgrades. After a dew months its just incremental. If I HS just bought an 8900 last year, I wouldn't buy an 8530 this year.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[stuaw11]

There are also many negatives people seem to brush over.

A good browser is 2-3 years late now. Webkit has been out that long and other full browsers like Opera on WM. By the time they get it out later this year, where will the other platforms be stepped up to?

BIS just isnt a good email solution anymore. The days of the massive inbox were 10 years ago when email on a phone was a commodity. Now its the norm, and other platforms give MUCH more functionality to its consumer base. Heck theyre just FINALLY getting gmail to work almost kind of functionally to match your desktop inbox. Still missing email folders and calendar sync, and any sign of Exchange support (people gloss over this but TONS of even college kids now have Exchange access with their school email, thats millions of consumers).

They still havent worked out a good dev kit, and the APIs are still a mess. This makes BB unappealing to devs to build apps when it takes 10 times the work, thus raising the apps to prices people wont pay- ie. DocstoGo at $50-60, IM+ and Beejive at $30 or so. Other platforms, like iphone because of sheer volume and easy dev tools, allow these to be sold at consumer-friendly $12 and $5-10 respectively.

It may be good as a messaging device, but does the average consumer JUST want a messaging device these days... Smartphones are moving towards computers in the palm of your hand, they text pager days really are over where messaging is all people want to do with their phones.

[_StephenBB81]

There are also many negatives people seem to brush over.

A good browser is 2-3 years late now. Webkit has been out that long and other full browsers like Opera on WM. By the time they get it out later this year, where will the other platforms be stepped up to?

BIS just isnt a good email solution anymore. The days of the massive inbox were 10 years ago when email on a phone was a commodity. Now its the norm, and other platforms give MUCH more functionality to its consumer base. Heck theyre just FINALLY getting gmail to work almost kind of functionally to match your desktop inbox. Still missing email folders and calendar sync, and any sign of Exchange support (people gloss over this but TONS of even college kids now have Exchange access with their school email, thats millions of consumers).

They still havent worked out a good dev kit, and the APIs are still a mess. This makes BB unappealing to devs to build apps when it takes 10 times the work, thus raising the apps to prices people wont pay- ie. DocstoGo at $50-60, IM+ and Beejive at $30 or so. Other platforms, like iphone because of sheer volume and easy dev tools, allow these to be sold at consumer-friendly $12 and $5-10 respectively.

It may be good as a messaging device, but does the average consumer JUST want a messaging device these days... Smartphones are moving towards computers in the palm of your hand, they text pager days really are over where messaging is all people want to do with their phones.

MOST of the people I know who use BB's have never used there Browser, and many more would open it less than once a week, so REALLY the browser is not a big issue for the main BB users, the BB users I know want email now, and want to send the email now, they want battery life, and they want a easy to read screen, and a clear phone to talk on, they want IT to have a back up of there e-mails, and IT to show them how to use the few features they need, when they upgrade, they don't want to learn a new phone, heck some of these guys working hours are in the 500-1000/hour pay average, and they seriously do not want to spend an hour learning a new phone. Blackberry has done a great job maintaining this market place, sure they should cater to the consumer, but don't kill your core market, I have very little issues with my BB browser, it takes a little while to search google for me, and reverse phone number look up doesn't render well, but the browser is not even on my top 5 requirements from my blackberry's and I carry 2 of them.

[srvac]

heck some of these guys working hours are in the 500-1000/hour pay average, and they seriously do not want to spend an hour learning a new phone.

Sounds like I picked the wrong career...

Blackberry has done a great job maintaining this market place, sure they should cater to the consumer, but don't kill your core market

But I think these users would use the browser more if it were more like the iPhone or Android browser, because there are still plenty of personal reasons to use the browser (check scores, research item while shopping, make online purchase, and online banking).

[stuaw11]

MOST of the people I know who use BB's have never used there Browser, and many more would open it less than once a week, so REALLY the browser is not a big issue for the main BB users, the BB users I know want email now, and want to send the email now, they want battery life, and they want a easy to read screen, and a clear phone to talk on, they want IT to have a back up of there e-mails, and IT to show them how to use the few features they need, when they upgrade, they don't want to learn a new phone, heck some of these guys working hours are in the 500-1000/hour pay average, and they seriously do not want to spend an hour learning a new phone. Blackberry has done a great job maintaining this market place, sure they should cater to the consumer, but don't kill your core market, I have very little issues with my BB browser, it takes a little while to search google for me, and reverse phone number look up doesn't render well, but the browser is not even on my top 5 requirements from my blackberry's and I carry 2 of them.

You seem to assume that NO other platform can get their email now and send their email now. In fact ALL the major platforms out now do gmail and yahoo exchange, MS exchange, etc. Same push email.

There's also no need to save email when you have proper email implementation. An important email goes into a folder and boom its there whether you go to it on your phone or desktop/web. No fiddling with what's saved on the phone, where did it go, etc.

I didn't know something like an iphone was brain surgery. If they're intelligent enough to make $500-1000/hr then a point and click on an icon OS should take about 5 whole minutes to learn if that. Being stuck in a cycle of incremental changes doesn't negate that other platforms can be just as easy to use.

You also seem to neglect the figures that well near 50% of RIM's business out there is individual consumers. Merely sitting on their hands to cater to the other 50% isn't the answer either. If they lost even 20 or 30% of that 50% of individual consumer, theyd be about 3rd place in the market. They CANNOT neglect these people either.

And as above, you see them at work but that doesn't mean that they don't use their phone any other time for any other task. Everyone is a regular person when they leave the office and want to browse the web or forums, check scores, do online shopping, etc. Maybe as suggested the browser is just too poor to complete any real tasks on so merely not using it is what you see.

No one said kill your core customer base, but sitting on your hands is an equally poor solution. In a 50/50 split they cant afford to tick either side off at this point where its getting tighter and tighter in the marketshare race.

[_StephenBB81]

You seem to assume that NO other platform can get their email now and send their email now. In fact ALL the major platforms out now do gmail and yahoo exchange, MS exchange, etc. Same push email.

There's also no need to save email when you have proper email implementation. An important email goes into a folder and boom its there whether you go to it on your phone or desktop/web. No fiddling with what's saved on the phone, where did it go, etc.

I didn't know something like an iphone was brain surgery. If they're intelligent enough to make $500-1000/hr then a point and click on an icon OS should take about 5 whole minutes to learn if that. Being stuck in a cycle of incremental changes doesn't negate that other platforms can be just as easy to use.

You also seem to neglect the figures that well near 50% of RIM's business out there is individual consumers. Merely sitting on their hands to cater to the other 50% isn't the answer either. If they lost even 20 or 30% of that 50% of individual consumer, theyd be about 3rd place in the market. They CANNOT neglect these people either.

And as above, you see them at work but that doesn't mean that they don't use their phone any other time for any other task. Everyone is a regular person when they leave the office and want to browse the web or forums, check scores, do online shopping, etc.

No one said kill your core customer base, but sitting on your hands is an equally poor solution. In a 50/50 split they cant afford to **** either side off at this point where its getting tighter and tighter in the marketshare race.

as someone who has just got a iPod Touch, I can say YES the interface is a challenge to learn if you've been using blackberry's for year, really my learning curve was only 30 minutes, but a former boss of mine took an hour to learn to use his First gen Ipod, I fear how long it took to learn his Blackberry, lucky when I talk to him now he's on his 3rd BB so showing new things excite him, and he can learn them quickly,

as for getting scores and stuff, I have them sent via email, no need to search them, I am techy, but many many decision makers are not, when you are stuck using Lotus Notes, which is second to Exchange in useage, BB is the best solution for getting your email now, and having it controlled by your IT department. as for doing other stuff with your phone, my current boss gets 30 required reply e-mails per hour for the 12 hour North American Business day to his Blackberry, he has Zero interest in doing anything else on that phone besides answering e-mails, and talking on the phone, I know my business Blackberry never uses anything beside the email and the phone, it is my toy BB that does the fun stuff.


Now I don't disagree that RIM needs to address somethings, but really the Browser is NOT as important as us forum junkies seem to think it is, Boot times, battery life, ways to keep costs down (built in wifi, skype support, ) fast social networking, those are more important to Joe 6 pack than the browser being fast.

[SprintTour155]

Im not a BB pro at all, i have had a BB for about 3 years now, starting with the Curve and i now have the Tour.

I feel like BB's do lack in certain areas but they arent "behind" in my opinion, RIM is just doing their own thing because users like it. To me, there is no comparison between devices like the Nexus one, iPhone etc and a BB. A BB is a straight messaging device, emails, texts, BBM whatever. They are the easiest phones i feel like to do all those things, if i have to write an email i pick up the phone, hit the trackball and click email, then write it and hit send, takes seconds. Writing an email is the same thing as writing a text basically, it all looks real simple and not very "cool" like the new Android or Apple phones but i dont think it was supposed to be anything more then a serious messaging device. I love my BB but i have thought about lately switching to a newer platform (i really like the nexus one) but no other device will make it so easy to send any type of message. Basically, your thumb can do everything on a BB, yea it looks plain and simple but if you are a serious messenger thats all you need.

[evilhunter101]

There's a big difference between an expected ONE model per year, and buying a phone to have it updated 6 months later to where it should have been with the 9700- ie. Tour -> Tour 2. Look at the 8900, people bought it sans 3g only to have the basically same phone released with 3G in the 9700. RIM is NOTORIOUS for doing this.

By now its pretty common knowledge every June/July a new iphone comes out, no sooner, no later. And the 2g to 3g was a big jump, the 3g to 3gs was likely a gap filler for the year. Its not even fair to assess it until the 4g comes out, it should be another huge jump in tech. RIM hasnt jumped that much in tech in the last 20 phone models released, let alone 3 going on 4.

Yes, there is a huge difference between one expected model per year but I was just showing how his logic was flawed. The fact remains that more than half of the 3G users upgraded to the 3GS even though it gave little to no added functionality to most users. I didn't address the 2G to 3G because that was a relatively (more-so OS wise) huge jump so there was no need to bring that up mind you.

You may not think it's fair to assess the 4G yet but the fact remains that 3GS users are in fact saving up for the 4G without any knowledge of any changes. Once again, that goes against scorpiodsu's logic.

To assume the 4G will be a huge jump in tech is a stretch to say the least. (That's like saying BBOS 6.0 will be revolutionary ) I would say a new OS, slight external design changes (front facing camera maybe/hopefully), possibly a faster processor but the current one is more than powerful enough for everything the iPhone does, more memory, higher megapixel rear camera, and that's about it. None of those things equate to a huge tech jump. Sure, there is the possibility of LTE being on-board but seeing as there will be little to no use for it until next year I wouldn't expect it.

As for RIM, they did have a huge jump in tech in case you haven't noticed. Have you seen the differences hardware wise between the S1 and S2? They are major. Anyone would be a fool to deny it. It is also a huge jump in tech to go from a keyboard BB to either S1 or S2, in fact, iPhone 2G to 3G is less of a jump than from keyboard BB to S1. Also, BB's in general prior to the S1 had no OpenGL capability. (S1 processor could do it, just wasn't activated which we do not know the reasoning.) Bold 9700 was/is way different than Bold 9000. It is smaller, and much more efficient. The battery life on it was completely unprecedented. Curve2 8530 also is OpenGL capable, big tech jump compared to old CDMA Curve series.

I'll give you the Tour sucking, but hey it's being discontinued so that oddball doesn't matter anyway. But, to say that RIM's tech has not been increasing is a long shot. It just isn't increasing in the way you would like.

As for the 8900 and the 9700, the 8900 is a lower priced option that has worse battery life, a different style keyboard, slightly processor (so I've heard). It is a more entry level device. To get angry at the fact that it came out and then the 9700 came out is ridiculous. That would be like getting angry at Apple for having a 16gb model and 32gb model. D*mn you Apple they are the same freakin phone stop giving us so many choices! Sarcasm of course, but maybe you'll get the point.

As for BB phone models. Storm series gets released roughly a year apart so far. Curve series has generally always been a year apart except for different color variations. Same for Pearl. Bold was over a year apart. Seeing what I'm getting at? The only thing that makes it seem as if there are a dozen models is the fact that they have different number based on GSM or CDMA functionality. Otherwise there would only be 4 (not including Tour or any leaked devices such as the BB slider), and those function as separate product lines that would be the same as the iPhone in terms of release dates: i.e. a year apart with slight changes just like the 3G to 3GS.

Every phone manufacturer does it. Take HTC for example, they have more product lines than the iPhone, Palm, and BB combined. They have 22 distinct lines still in production. Many of them are the same phone "rehashed" as some would put it. Yet, you see no one really complain about that even while they still use the obsolete Windows Mobile 6.X in the majority of their devices-18 to be exact.

So, in short, take two of these (hands you stress relief pills aka chill pill) and call me in the morning. Goodnight all.

[Laura Knotek]

As for the 8900 and the 9700, the 8900 is a lower priced option that has worse battery life, a different style keyboard, slightly processor (so I've heard). It is a more entry level device. To get angry at the fact that it came out and then the 9700 came out is ridiculous. That would be like getting angry at Apple for having a 16gb model and 32gb model. D*mn you Apple they are the same freakin phone stop giving us so many choices! Sarcasm of course, but maybe you'll get the point.

8900 is probably on its way out anyway. T-Mobile has already stopped selling it, since the 8520 and 9700 have been available now. Other carriers will probably follow suit.

[anon(13322)]

It seems like DeRusett and his friends are rich. Lol. 500/1000 an hour. Wow! If you are making that much, then I assume you have no time to browse the net, so I guess that's why it's not that important to them.

[_StephenBB81]

It seems like DeRusett and his friends are rich. Lol. 500/1000 an hour. Wow! If you are making that much, then I assume you have no time to browse the net, so I guess that's why it's not that important to them.

I am far from Rich, hence why I am here, but associates, and customers of mine are what can be called Rich.
500/1000 an hour is a bases off of a salary estimate, many doctors can in the US can fall into this range,

[scorpiodsu]

Ever heard of this little thing called the iPhone 3GS? Turns out millions of people bought it because it was the newest one, had a slight internal design difference from the 3G, and extended their contract 2 years even though their 3G was essentially the same as the 3GS. More so, millions of 3GS users are now saving up to get the "4G" when it is released...interesting concept isn't it?

Yes and you're right because they didn't release 4 models in the year that are basically the same. That's the difference. RIM keeps pumping out devices every couple of months that are really no different than the other. Apple didn't come out with 4 phones in the same year that are pretty much the same. And why does everything conversation about blackberry have to go back to the iPhone?

[scorpiodsu]

Why would you buy a new device every three months? If you wait the two years that you are supposed to, you will find that the upgrade should be worthy. I think that people get. caught up in getting new devices all the time. You have to wait for major upgrades. After a dew months its just incremental. If I HS just bought an 8900 last year, I wouldn't buy an 8530 this year.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I don't need a new device every couple of months. You guys totally missed the point. Whether you AGREE with it or NOT, there are a bunch of people that want the latest blackberry. You know why, because RIM just tweaks it enough to make it seem like a new device. They came out with the 9000 with was great but then came out with the 8900 which was more sleek BUT without 3G. And then they come out with the 9700 with is now a combination of both. So in all of that they basically combined 2 devices and you had people switching devices because the first 2 were missing things and they finally combined it all in the last one. So my point is they keep pushing out devices with marginal differences and fanbois will buy it because it's the "latest and greatest" blackberry. Not saying I agree with it, but it is true.

[scorpiodsu]

8900 is probably on its way out anyway. T-Mobile has already stopped selling it, since the 8520 and 9700 have been available now. Other carriers will probably follow suit.

Exactly. It was a useless device. I mean seriously, how many Curves are they going to come out with. And how much better is the 8520 than the 8900? How much better is the 9700 than the 9000? Now obviously, the biggest difference is the design and slight hardware difference, but at the end of the day they all run the same dead OS where RIM just put a new skin on the old OS and do the same thing. Granted, I understand the argument about having several difference devices gives the consumers choice. That is true, but at the same time do something really different with the devices instead of the only difference being this one has a trackpad and the other has a trackball or this one had it's keyboard buttons spaced out while this the buttons are close together.

Seriously, put out some devices that actually are different. Android isn't pumping out the same device over and over. They all have variations of the same OS but it comes in truly different forms and specs which you really have a different phone. I can you a curve 8310 and do the same stuff as the 8520.