[omniusovermind]

1. App world refunds. There is no built in refund window in case you discover apps that don't work out for you or meet your needs as hoped.

2. Playbook tablets. These are not getting BB10 alongside the phone launch. Both the OS and hardware are over a year old now. PBOS 2.1 is 'ok' but it's not playing in the same league as the others still.
Apple, Android, and MS have both their newest phones and tablets available together, so the prospective customer is fully aware of exactly how their ecosystems in both tablet and phone space currently are.

These two factors combined are making me fairly queezy about investing into the BB ecosystem, mainly because I'm basically taking a leap of faith that 2nd and 3rd tier developers are going to not just release a 1-shot app and then abandon it while they continue their Apple/Android efforts. I'm not really worried about 1st tier big name devs. The apps I use the most are the ones I use to get stuff done, and those usually from the 2nd and 3rd tier developers. File explorers, media players, RDP apps, photo editors, cloud storage etc. This is going to be a new unproven platform, and none of the developers after it goes live in Feb. know anything about what they'll be able to do for tablet offerings yet with BB10. Couple this with me not having the option to automatically refund app purchases either and I'm hesitant to take the risk.

Yes I know BB10 is slick. It has my favorite UI out of everything that's out there right now. I also love the fact that patches and updates will come straight from RIM and not 3rd party OEM's or carriers. BUT... it's the unknowns that could offset those advantages. With the 3 competitors, I know exactly what hardware, software, and app selection are on both their phones and their tablets, and I also know I'll be able to try every and any app they have free of charge before I permanently buy it. In the case of Blackberry, BB10 isn't launching fully on January 30th if you're someone who wants to know how both the phone and the tablet will be. In that case the launch date for the whole package is still unknown. I'm not keen on waiting until this summer (or longer, in a worst case scenario) to find out - there has to be a point where a person says "I have waited patiently long enough and have reached my limit".

One final factor is that the industry are moving towards consolidating their respective walled gardens, making it a little more inconvenient for you every year to use two different ecosystems. Buying two sets of apps for your phone by one company and tablet by another isn't financially fun. They're also inching towards making services between differing devices more inconvenient to use or access. Because of these issues, I'm not very keen on buying a BB10 phone and a Nexus tablet for example. But because my patience is wearing thin, and the future of the Playbook and BB10 is still uncertain, it's going to be hard for me to take that leap of faith.

[anon(4018671)]

Good luck with Google, last week I set up a new email address and they thrust me into Google +. I then decided to just delete that account which was frustrating and didn't work. Then Gmail said my primary account was compromised and suggested that I delete that account. Right now all I want is a BB email solution. They have NewBay so maybe we will, fingers crossed.

How long does it take to get a refund? I've never asked but if you make it too easy it might be abused.

[omniusovermind]

RIM were said to be discussing selling NewBay last August, has that changed? I thought all NewBay offered was cloud, I didn't see email services. The refund thing can't really be abused because they only give you a limited time to try out the app before the purchase is locked, in which case you have to take it up with the developer after that. My point was there is no built in mechanism in App World to try out an app for 15 minutes or so before your purchase becomes locked in.

[TomJasper]

1)Refund email has been posted many times.
2) Playbook is a screaming deal without BB10 OS. Once Playbook gets BB10 (FREE) your investment in Playbook has increased,what's not to like about that.

[omniusovermind]

1)Refund email has been posted many times.
2) Playbook is a screaming deal without BB10 OS. Once Playbook gets BB10 (FREE) your investment in Playbook has increased,what's not to like about that.

How well does the refund by email work though? Will they do it no hassle no questions asked so that it's virtually as easy and guaranteed as a built in system? Yup, the PB is a steal of a deal right now I won't argue that. There are a few key apps (to me) that only ONE developer has made for each though which kind of scares me. If those apps ever dropped from App World I'd be crushed The PB's future still isn't a "known" thing so my point was that I'd like my next phone upgrade to be part of a combined phone+tablet ecosystem that is rock solid at time of phone purchase

[shemaree09]

Good luck with Google, last week I set up a new email address and they thrust me into Google +. I then decided to just delete that account which was frustrating and didn't work. Then Gmail said my primary account was compromised and suggested that I delete that account. Right now all I want is a BB email solution. They have NewBay so maybe we will, fingers crossed.

How long does it take to get a refund? I've never asked but if you make it too easy it might be abused.

Had this same problem! I was logged into my Gmail and when I went to Youtube it signed me up for a Google+ account. I mean, really? Are they that desperate for Google+ users? I deleted it immediately!

[kill_9]

RIM were said to be discussing selling NewBay last August, has that changed? I thought all NewBay offered was cloud, I didn't see email services. The refund thing can't really be abused because they only give you a limited time to try out the app before the purchase is locked, in which case you have to take it up with the developer after that. My point was there is no built in mechanism in App World to try out an app for 15 minutes or so before your purchase becomes locked in.

Point 1. Cloud services by definition technically includes email services, however, whether a cloud service provider offers email is a separate issue.
Point 2. BlackBerry AppWorld refunds should be accessible within the store-front and payment to the vendor/developer should only be made twice each month instead of presumably in almost real-time. A 24-hour return policy seems reasonable and no single BlackBerry ID should be able to request in excess of 5 refunds each month, 25 each year to limit the processing churn created for the third-party payment processor (Digital River).

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

1. App world refunds. There is no built in refund window in case you discover apps that don't work out for you or meet your needs as hoped.

2. Playbook tablets. These are not getting BB10 alongside the phone launch. Both the OS and hardware are over a year old now. PBOS 2.1 is 'ok' but it's not playing in the same league as the others still.
Apple, Android, and MS have both their newest phones and tablets available together, so the prospective customer is fully aware of exactly how their ecosystems in both tablet and phone space currently are.

These two factors combined are making me fairly queezy about investing into the BB ecosystem, mainly because I'm basically taking a leap of faith that 2nd and 3rd tier developers are going to not just release a 1-shot app and then abandon it while they continue their Apple/Android efforts. I'm not really worried about 1st tier big name devs. The apps I use the most are the ones I use to get stuff done, and those usually from the 2nd and 3rd tier developers. File explorers, media players, RDP apps, photo editors, cloud storage etc. This is going to be a new unproven platform, and none of the developers after it goes live in Feb. know anything about what they'll be able to do for tablet offerings yet with BB10. Couple this with me not having the option to automatically refund app purchases either and I'm hesitant to take the risk.

Yes I know BB10 is slick. It has my favorite UI out of everything that's out there right now. I also love the fact that patches and updates will come straight from RIM and not 3rd party OEM's or carriers. BUT... it's the unknowns that could offset those advantages. With the 3 competitors, I know exactly what hardware, software, and app selection are on both their phones and their tablets, and I also know I'll be able to try every and any app they have free of charge before I permanently buy it. In the case of Blackberry, BB10 isn't launching fully on January 30th if you're someone who wants to know how both the phone and the tablet will be. In that case the launch date for the whole package is still unknown. I'm not keen on waiting until this summer (or longer, in a worst case scenario) to find out - there has to be a point where a person says "I have waited patiently long enough and have reached my limit".

One final factor is that the industry are moving towards consolidating their respective walled gardens, making it a little more inconvenient for you every year to use two different ecosystems. Buying two sets of apps for your phone by one company and tablet by another isn't financially fun. They're also inching towards making services between differing devices more inconvenient to use or access. Because of these issues, I'm not very keen on buying a BB10 phone and a Nexus tablet for example. But because my patience is wearing thin, and the future of the Playbook and BB10 is still uncertain, it's going to be hard for me to take that leap of faith.

This post has dignity. I can tell you are actually concerned and not just smearing two short comings of rim. I am not someone that needs a lot of apps or the same apps on my phone and my tablet so im good

[TomJasper]

I have never had an app I wanted/needed a refund on to date but I'm anal in the sense that I will try to find a review or actual video showing the strengths/weakness of an app before purchase, so far has worked well for me at least. I see the PB as part of the BB10 eco, it will come soon enough, priorities prevail me thinks.

How well does the refund by email work though? Will they do it no hassle no questions asked so that it's virtually as easy and guaranteed as a built in system? Yup, the PB is a steal of a deal right now I won't argue that. There are a few key apps (to me) that only ONE developer has made for each though which kind of scares me. If those apps ever dropped from App World I'd be crushed The PB's future still isn't a "known" thing so my point was that I'd like my next phone upgrade to be part of a combined phone+tablet ecosystem that is rock solid at time of phone purchase

[kraski]

Had this same problem! I was logged into my Gmail and when I went to Youtube it signed me up for a Google+ account. I mean, really? Are they that desperate for Google+ users? I deleted it immediately!

All services are tied together on Google. You create an email account, you now have access to G+, YouTube, Blogger, Calendar, etc. The change was publicly announced some time ago. In comparison, your BB ID allows access to a growing number of services, etc. from RIM. Would you cancel your BB ID because you set it up for AppWorld and you can now access BBM with that same ID? Is RIM that desperate for BBM users?

[shemaree09]

All services are tied together on Google. You create an email account, you now have access to G+, YouTube, Blogger, Calendar, etc. The change was publicly announced some time ago. In comparison, your BB ID allows access to a growing number of services, etc. from RIM. Would you cancel your BB ID because you set it up for AppWorld and you can now access BBM with that same ID? Is RIM that desperate for BBM users?

Umm, I canceled my Google+ account because I dont want one. I went to Youtube to watch a video, not sign up for a Google+ account. I didn't like how it forced me to create one, just so I could watch a video.

My whole point is that its very intrusive. If I wanted a Google+ account I would have signed up myself in the first place.

[CairnsRock]

1. I agree, the refund process could be better, but not a show stopper for me, the apps are cheap. What is a big deal for me is that a system error at RIM has blocked my app world account and they cant fix it, so I cant buy apps.

2. IOS upgrades are active immediately across their phones, tablets, mp3,s. I like that a lot and it has become what is expected. I think RIM aspires to that, but they currently dont have the wheels, muscle, cycles to do that.

I still love my playbook, but its not loving me too much recently. So my eyes are wandering.