1. itsyaboy's Avatar
    So, what are you guys all up to that you don't want ANYONE to ever see?

    Also, just because authorities CAN access your information, doesn't mean that they do. You need to be under surveillance for them to be looking into things like your private messages and at that point, they're probably physically watching you through your window too so you've got bigger problems.

    If you really want privacy, buy yourself a 'burn phone' like they use in the crime movies and use phone calls instead of a traceable service like instant messaging. If you want security, then the authorities are going to have to have a bit more power (and access) to everyone's information and you are going to just have to trust them with that.

    Personally, I use BBM as a very casual chat with close friends and family members mostly so I really don't care who wants to snoop in. I'm seriously confused as to what everyone else is so incognito about...
    That is the beauty of it. That is my own business. Why should you need to know? Why should you be worried I want to keep my own privacy? Just because you apparently feel alright with other people reading your casual chats, doesn't automatically mean that everybody else should live the way you live. I respect your way of casual chat. Respect my wishes to keep my casual chat more private.

    I don't have a simple black and white vision where police / authorities should just be trusted all the time. Cops can be dirty everywhere, because they are human. This has been proven time and time again.

    Also, it is not about privacy versus security. That is telling the story wrong. I can have security while maintaining my privacy. Ask the experts out there, who blog about these things regularly. It is like Sunday church. If you want to go, be my guest. But I am not Christian and might not want to. Respect that, just like I respect your choice.

    And of course, it is hard to stay 100% anonymous. That is not even my goal.
    anon(6038817) and werkregen like this.
    04-16-16 04:27 PM
  2. David Tyler's Avatar
    They're upfront about how they're funded.
    There you go. Just out of curiosity, how?


    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    04-16-16 05:48 PM
  3. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    04-16-16 05:50 PM
  4. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    There you go. Just out of curiosity, how?


    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    Forgot to quote you. Link is in my previous post.

    Posted from my  Q10 via CB10
    04-16-16 05:51 PM
  5. David Tyler's Avatar
    Also, open source does not equal good security.
    "Open-source" often means the opposite.

    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    04-16-16 05:51 PM
  6. David Tyler's Avatar
    That is the beauty of it. That is my own business.
    Aww, ya beat me to it.



    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    04-16-16 05:53 PM
  7. David Tyler's Avatar
    Thanks!

    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    04-16-16 05:54 PM
  8. David Tyler's Avatar
    You gotta love this:

    "Big internet companies like Facebook or Google have effectively hijacked the privacy discourse in the recent years. Their marketers managed to convince the public that the most important things about privacy are superficial tools that allow hiding your public posts or your profile pictures from the people around you. Adding these superficial tools enables companies to calm down the public and change nothing in how they are turning over private data to marketers and other third parties."

    Couldn't have written it better myself.

    Very admirable, but let's face it: They have a big fat endowment to run Telegram, and that's wonderful for them. They are explicitly not-for-profit; and again, that's truly noble. Since BlackBerry doesn't have a munificent benefactor, and since I don't have a problem with someone running a business for profit (well -- MOST things, anyway...), I'm happy to pay them their $32/year for BBM Protected.

    Telegram has my best wishes, and I hope they succeed -- I also hope they find another sugar daddy when this endowment runs out!

    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    bungaboy likes this.
    04-16-16 06:05 PM
  9. diehardbbuser's Avatar
    So, what are you guys all up to that you don't want ANYONE to ever see?

    Also, just because authorities CAN access your information, doesn't mean that they do. You need to be under surveillance for them to be looking into things like your private messages and at that point, they're probably physically watching you through your window too so you've got bigger problems.

    If you really want privacy, buy yourself a 'burn phone' like they use in the crime movies and use phone calls instead of a traceable service like instant messaging. If you want security, then the authorities are going to have to have a bit more power (and access) to everyone's information and you are going to just have to trust them with that.

    Personally, I use BBM as a very casual chat with close friends and family members mostly so I really don't care who wants to snoop in. I'm seriously confused as to what everyone else is so incognito about...
    Exactly. All this media hype over security us getting old. For 99.99% of user it's a non issue.. The gov doesn't care about everyday people and their pics and dribble being discussed on email and messages... As for the other suspicious crowd,, who cares about their privacy.. Don't deserve it.
    04-17-16 07:20 AM
  10. Fastmarc's Avatar
    Such a stupid thing for the average, law abiding Joe to worry about. Nobody is interested in seeing your chatter. You probably have a better chance of winning the lottery than have some government agency or anyone actually looking at your messages.

    If you are into shady stuff, well eventually you'll get on someone's radar and as such that possibility increases, but you do have shady stuff to hide. I'm not worried about your problem.

    Why get worked up over this?

    Posted via CB10
    04-17-16 07:59 AM
  11. valer466's Avatar
    I thought these codes were only meant for pin messaging on legacy OS. Not regular BBM back then or now.

    Posted via CB10
    bungaboy likes this.
    04-17-16 08:00 AM
  12. itsyaboy's Avatar
    Exactly. All this media hype over security us getting old. For 99.99% of user it's a non issue.. The gov doesn't care about everyday people and their pics and dribble being discussed on email and messages... As for the other suspicious crowd,, who cares about their privacy.. Don't deserve it.
    The government definitely does care for what its civilians do. My own government has repeatedly sought out Twitter users for comments they made on Twitter. The people in question voiced opinions regarding to the current refugee crisis. While I may not agree with their comments, I do think it goes too far that the police acts as a thought police! We have something called freedom of speech, that must be protected. Do you think I am suspicious, because I want to fight for my privacy?

    Such a stupid thing for the average, law abiding Joe to worry about. Nobody is interested in seeing your chatter. You probably have a better chance of winning the lottery than have some government agency or anyone actually looking at your messages.

    If you are into shady stuff, well eventually you'll get on someone's radar and as such that possibility increases, but you do have shady stuff to hide. I'm not worried about your problem.

    Why get worked up over this?

    Posted via CB10
    See my response just above your quote. There will always be someone who is interested in those things. Additional example, online identity fraud is very popular, because you can get real life benefits from it. Like, stealing someone's identity to claim financial benefits. That can happen too when there is no security for digital communications. There is also the British case in which a couple was duped into paying a real bill to the wrong person. See that story here.

    Digital communications should be guarded with great security. While I agree that most messages, especially chat messages, are worthless by itself, they will be valuable to someone who can put all those messages together.

    Why would you people be so upset or angry that I want my privacy respected? I will respect your opinion, give you real arguments why you might want to think twice, but if you still don't want to, that is perfectly fine and your choice.
    David Tyler and dusdal like this.
    04-17-16 09:02 AM
  13. David Tyler's Avatar
    We have something called freedom of speech, that must be protected. Do you think I am suspicious, because I want to fight for my privacy?
    You keep writing my responses for me.

    At best, an awareness of govt surveillance results in self-censorship -- a reluctance to take certain positions known to be unpopular or at odds with stated govt views or policies. If, for example, you are aware the govt selectively audits the tax returns of certain organizations, would you want the govt to have access to your communications with members or leaders of those organizations..? Even if those communications are perfectly innocuous, you may find yourself sitting across the desk from an IRS agent. In the US, we are supposed to be guaranteed not just freedom of speech, but freedom of association. The idea is that you can't be prosecuted simply for knowing or associating with individuals or belonging to organizations (unless those organizations advocate the violent overthrow of the government).

    The "If you're not doing something illegal, you've nothing to fear from govt surveillance" has been proven wrong time and time again in history. Blanket surveillance -- without probable cause or a warrant -- is simply too tempting for those in power to not pervert (however noble the initial intentions) to stay in power.



    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    itsyaboy likes this.
    04-17-16 09:22 AM
  14. bungaboy's Avatar
    I thought these codes were only meant for pin messaging on legacy OS. Not regular BBM back then or now.

    Posted via CB10
    STOP! JUST STOP! you don't want to confuse them with facts and reality!
    04-17-16 09:22 AM
  15. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    The government definitely does care for what its civilians do. My own government has repeatedly sought out Twitter users for comments they made on Twitter. The people in question voiced opinions regarding to the current refugee crisis. While I may not agree with their comments, I do think it goes too far that the police acts as a thought police! We have something called freedom of speech, that must be protected. Do you think I am suspicious, because I want to fight for my privacy?
    If you want to cite the constitution or charter that's fine. Agreed, that we do have the freedom of speech but I don't believe that there is anything included in any bill of rights about encrypted messaging software - not to mention whether or not the government has the "right" to access it if they deem it perhaps necessary.

    There is no "right" to privacy. As BlackBerry puts it with their newest handset, privacy is a "PRIVilege" and not one that should be taken for granted or abused. It is my belief that we have quite a sufficient amount of privacy from the government as it is. They really don't care what you do behind closed doors for the most part - unless you are a threat to them or the general public (which is, of course a whole other discussion or debate), in which case they should be able to bust down those "closed doors" for the protection of everyone else.

    The fact is, just because they have the encryption keys (if it is even still valid - who knows - but probably), it does not mean that they are spying on everyone. They don't have the resources for such a ridiculous notion, nor do they care about 99.999 percent of the garbage that most people use messenger services for. The real issue here is whether or not you trust your government - not whether or not they trust you.
    04-17-16 03:47 PM
  16. thurask's Avatar
    Inb4 "closed source > open source"
    "Open-source" often means the opposite.

    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    Just in time.
    04-17-16 04:49 PM
  17. John Vieira's Avatar
    If you want to cite the constitution or charter that's fine. Agreed, that we do have the freedom of speech but I don't believe that there is anything included in any bill of rights about encrypted messaging software - not to mention whether or not the government has the "right" to access it if they deem it perhaps necessary.

    There is no "right" to privacy. As BlackBerry puts it with their newest handset, privacy is a "PRIVilege" and not one that should be taken for granted or abused. It is my belief that we have quite a sufficient amount of privacy from the government as it is. They really don't care what you do behind closed doors for the most part - unless you are a threat to them or the general public (which is, of course a whole other discussion or debate), in which case they should be able to bust down those "closed doors" for the protection of everyone else.

    The fact is, just because they have the encryption keys (if it is even still valid - who knows - but probably), it does not mean that they are spying on everyone. They don't have the resources for such a ridiculous notion, nor do they care about 99.999 percent of the garbage that most people use messenger services for. The real issue here is whether or not you trust your government - not whether or not they trust you.
    They do have the resources, they do spy on everyone, they do collect and store all your data.

    Best you can do is keep it encrypted or scrambled for some degree, so it's not plainly obvious for someone to see.

    So if you are targeted for some reason, then there will have to be real police work and resources put in to it. As there should be.

    If you think you have privacy, you're just wrong. You're always being tracked and your data is being collected.

    This isn't anecdotal, it's not a fantasy and it isn't about having anything to hide.

    It's been proven that the governments of the world spy on their citizens.

    If you don't think you have a right to privacy or security, fine, give me your house keys.

    Because by not DEMANDING better encryption and security, that's what you're essentially doing. Handing someone your house keys.

    And if you're scared, scared that the bad guys will get you, and that you agree you should be spied on, just to make sure you're OK. Well, that's exactly the type of sentiment that allowed the mass spying on citizens to begin, and continue.

    Personally, I'd rather die free, than live scared of what I might say, and who might interpret what wrong.

    BTW, discussing encryption and security? We're all on watch lists now. You're already being targeted by even mentioning it. Scary isn't it?

    Posted via a Priv on an NDA protected software version.
    04-17-16 05:44 PM
  18. David Tyler's Avatar
    If you want to cite the constitution or charter that's fine. Agreed, that we do have the freedom of speech but I don't believe that there is anything included in any bill of rights about encrypted messaging software ...

    There is no "right" to privacy. AsThe real issue here is whether or not you trust your government - not whether or not they trust you.
    Of course there's nothing in the Bill of Rights about encryption; however, there ARE quite specific rights concerning freedom of speech and association. To the extent privacy enables those rights, privacy, too, is a right.

    Trust the government..? The entire US Constitution is centered on the idea that government cannot be trusted.


    Passport SE: All the snooty prestige of a device with a precious metal in the name at less than half the price!
    04-17-16 06:19 PM
  19. Loc22's Avatar
    i use BBM Protected. It's dirt cheap, it's VERY secure (end-to-end, BlackBerry doesn't have the keys, and you can generate new keys anytime), and you DON'Tneed to have BES.

    Best of all, no Facebook.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    BBM protected is dirt cheap if you are from USA not when you're from an Asian or African contry.

    Posted via CB10
    05-14-16 05:13 AM
  20. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Never mind about Telegram:

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/ss7-a...s-503894.shtml

    Posted from my  Z10 via CB10
    05-14-16 07:38 AM
  21. ginobb's Avatar
    It seems there are a lot of people on here that never read the Constitution or understand why it was written in the first place. Then there are others who simply don't believe it applies any more.

    Posted via CB10
    05-15-16 10:13 AM
  22. David Tyler's Avatar
    BBM protected is dirt cheap if you are from USA not when you're from an Asian or African country.
    I imagine that depends on whom, exactly, you're referring to -- there are certainly lots of people in Asia with more in their emergency savings account than my entire net worth -- but OK; I'm sure there are even more for whom the BBM Protected annual subscription is prohibitively expensive. Your point is..?
    05-17-16 01:32 PM
  23. Loc22's Avatar
    I imagine that depends on whom, exactly, you're referring to -- there are certainly lots of people in Asia with more in their emergency savings account than my entire net worth -- but OK; I'm sure there are even more for whom the BBM Protected annual subscription is prohibitively expensive. Your point is..?
    My point is that the fee for BBM protected is too prohibitive for me to pay. Perhaps they need to think of a scheme where it varies in price based on the affordability of the region rather than just price it for the US or Canada.

    Posted via CB10
    05-19-16 09:13 AM
  24. jope28's Avatar
    I imagine that depends on whom, exactly, you're referring to -- there are certainly lots of people in Asia with more in their emergency savings account than my entire net worth -- but OK; I'm sure there are even more for whom the BBM Protected annual subscription is prohibitively expensive. Your point is..?
    Even putting the price aside, it's a pain to purchase BBM Protected. I did it with the guide on the BlackBerry Central website, but there's no way that most people will go through all that to give you their money.

    BlackBerry might need to make BBM Protected a simple in-app subscription or figure out a more user-friendly way.
    Maybe a separate app or menu within BBM to take the place of the BBM Protected online portal.

     Passport/SQW100-3 .2876 CB10 
    05-19-16 10:19 AM
  25. itsyaboy's Avatar
    Even putting the price aside, it's a pain to purchase BBM Protected. I did it with the guide on the BlackBerry Central website, but there's no way that most people will go through all that to give you their money.

    BlackBerry might need to make BBM Protected a simple in-app subscription or figure out a more user-friendly way.
    Maybe a separate app or menu within BBM to take the place of the BBM Protected online portal.

     Passport/SQW100-3 .2876 CB10 
    Been shouting for the same quite a few times now. Offer BBM Protected within the BBM Shop for consumers!

    Posted via CB10
    David Tyler, jope28 and dusdal like this.
    05-19-16 05:22 PM
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