09-28-14 04:10 AM
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  1. Benjamin_NYC's Avatar
    If a large number of people are experiencing a certain problem, it is irrelevant that some of you are not. It adds nothing to the discussion.


    Posted via CB10
    bobauckland likes this.
    10-28-13 12:19 PM
  2. app_Developer's Avatar
    I wonder how BlackBerry is doing the push notifications on iOS. The notifications that the user sees include the message content. So I think there are two possibilities:

    A.) BBM server is sending a generic "you have new messages" notification to the phone. The app wakes up in response to that notification and retrieves the actual message(s). The app then posts a local notification to the user with the message content. If this is the case, then they should be able to give the sender his/her "D", since the app just retrieved the message(s).

    B.) the other option is that the push notification from the server includes the actual message content, and the app is not actually waking up at all to process it. To me, this is more serious than the missing "D", it's actually a major security/privacy issue. One of the major selling points of BBM is supposed to be security/privacy. But if BlackBerry is sending the actual message content to the device directly over Apple's APNS network, then how can they claim it is any more secure than iMessage or other services which use the same network?
    10-28-13 12:25 PM
  3. ukmight's Avatar
    So the issue with iPhone is that the app can't run with the background and BBM's only get delivered when the app is open?

    That doesn't make sense to me, because emails, texts, iMessages and Facebook notifications gets "delivered" if I'm not in those apps. So BBM's should be able to be "delivered" as well, even if one isn't in BBM. Seems like that's when it should show "D" to me as the sender. Then it should show "R" when they open the app AND read the message.

    Sounds like the problem is the way BBM is defining "delivered" to iOS devices?

    This would explain why Android is near 100% reliable now, because apps run in the background, whereas iPhone is less reliable.

    I think this is a problem with Whatsapp on iPhone as well.

    Still, if it goes to the phone (irrespective of whether the app is open), iPhone uses should get a popup notification (or whatever they call it), and I should get a D. Problem is, I'm not getting D's.


    Posted via CB10
    The other apps route their messages through the Apple servers that allow the messages to be delivered seamlessly to the iOS devices with the app being closed. Although whatsapp also uses the same, it is not real time if the app is closed. I would assume that this is the limitation of the architecture set up by Apple for messaging apps.
    On The other hand BlackBerry has not allowed their messages to be routed through the Apple servers to avoid any compromise on security and this could be the issue that the app has to be open to receive messages on iOS devices.

    Posted via CB10
    10-28-13 12:59 PM
  4. Benjamin_NYC's Avatar
    The other apps route their messages through the Apple servers that allow the messages to be delivered seamlessly to the iOS devices with the app being closed. Although whatsapp also uses the same, it is not real time if the app is closed. I would assume that this is the limitation of the architecture set up by Apple for messaging apps.
    On The other hand BlackBerry has not allowed their messages to be routed through the Apple servers to avoid any compromise on security and this could be the issue that the app has to be open to receive messages on iOS devices.

    Posted via CB10
    Thank you. So that is the problem with BBM on iOS. Yet NOWHERE does BlackBerry say this. NOWHERE to they tell users that they must have the app open to be connected. All they says is their stupid tagline: "Always Connected!" or whatever idiocy they're spewing now. When in fact, it is NOT always connected. What idiots.
    10-28-13 01:05 PM
  5. ital1's Avatar
    I just added a new contact with an iPhone and have been messaging without issues.
    10-28-13 01:09 PM
  6. diogoteixeira87's Avatar
    Thank you. So that is the problem with BBM on iOS. Yet NOWHERE does BlackBerry say this. NOWHERE to they tell users that they must have the app open to be connected. All they says is their stupid tagline: "Always Connected!" or whatever idiocy they're spewing now. When in fact, it is NOT always connected. What idiots.
    Yes. This is a problem with ios. Specially in the first days of BBMx, I was facing some delays with my iPhone friends. But, today, for example, when chatting with them, I notice a little small delay to receive de D's, maybe 10 seconds, but after the wait was only for R's, and this I can't exactly say if there is something wrong because it depends on others contacts.

    Posted via my awesome BlackBerry Z10
    10-28-13 01:15 PM
  7. Benjamin_NYC's Avatar
    Yes. This is a problem with ios. Specially in the first days of BBMx, I was facing some delays with my iPhone friends. But, today, for example, when chatting with them, I notice a little small delay to receive de D's, maybe 10 seconds, but after the wait was only for R's, and this I can't exactly say if there is something wrong because it depends on others contacts.

    Posted via my awesome BlackBerry Z10
    Apparently, that's because those users are in their BBM app in iPhone...
    10-28-13 01:18 PM
  8. bobauckland's Avatar
    I think what people fail to understand is that, just cos you're experiencing a problem, right at this exact moment, doesn't mean others are having problems.

    See what I did there?

    Posted via CB10
    Yes but this thread shows loads of people are having similar problems.
    I see what you tried to do, it didn't work.

    Posted via CB10
    10-28-13 01:24 PM
  9. Benjamin_NYC's Avatar
    Yes but this thread shows loads of people are having similar problems.
    I see what you tried to do, it didn't work.

    Posted via CB10
    LOL, right^
    10-28-13 01:25 PM
  10. W1F8TQ's Avatar
    It seems that BBM for iOS and Android need to be running either actively, or in the background in order for the recipient's device to acknowledge a successful delivery status, "D".
    If you kill the BBM app, then it can't acknowledge a delivery report until you launch it again, in that case it would generate a "D" and "R" at the same time.
    This is not the case in a native BB device where BBM is more integrated in the operating system.

    Again, these are my personal observations, I can be completely off base. I hope I am, and this is a temporary glitch to be corrected in a future update..... but somehow I don't think it is.
    10-28-13 01:29 PM
  11. app_Developer's Avatar
    On The other hand BlackBerry has not allowed their messages to be routed through the Apple servers to avoid any compromise on security and this could be the issue that the app has to be open to receive messages on iOS devices.
    Except that the push notifications that I see do have the message contents. So is BlackBerry sending the contents of the messages over Apple's service (using Apple's encryption, not BlackBerry's)?
    10-28-13 01:34 PM
  12. ital1's Avatar
    From what I am seeing this is the case for iOS but on Android the app can run in the background. Android users do have the option to not have the app running constantly; Android Central wrote a piece about it and advised users to keep the setting ON.

    Posted via my Z10
    10-28-13 01:34 PM
  13. diogoteixeira87's Avatar
    Apparently, that's because those users are in their BBM app in iPhone...
    Agree. But, at least with me the apps I'd doing its job fine. The app delivers fast as usual. If they are not reading the messages fast, it is probably because of ios limitations.

    Posted via my awesome BlackBerry Z10
    10-28-13 01:44 PM
  14. Benjamin_NYC's Avatar
    If they are not reading the messages fast, it is probably because of ios limitations.
    These limitations don't seem to apply to email/text/iMessages/Facebook notifications. But if you want to keep blaming iOS, you go right ahead.
    10-28-13 01:47 PM
  15. ukmight's Avatar
    Thank you. So that is the problem with BBM on iOS. Yet NOWHERE does BlackBerry say this. NOWHERE to they tell users that they must have the app open to be connected. All they says is their stupid tagline: "Always Connected!" or whatever idiocy they're spewing now. When in fact, it is NOT always connected. What idiots.
    I have personally not tested the iOS app as I don't own an iPhone, but it would most likely be the issue. I have also heard from a few people that they received push notifications without the BBM App open .

    I'm not entirely sure how BlackBerry is managing that.

    Posted via CB10
    10-28-13 01:50 PM
  16. ukmight's Avatar
    Except that the push notifications that I see do have the message contents. So is BlackBerry sending the contents of the messages over Apple's service (using Apple's encryption, not BlackBerry's)?
    BlackBerry will not allow the messages to be routed through Apple's servers. I'm not sure how BlackBerry has achieved the push notifications on iOS devices.

    Posted via CB10
    10-28-13 01:52 PM
  17. app_Developer's Avatar
    BlackBerry will not allow the messages to be routed through Apple's servers. I'm not sure how BlackBerry has achieved the push notifications on iOS devices.
    The thing is, I've just tested it again with the app not running, and I see the full message content in the push notification before I open the app.

    So that's not possible unless BlackBerry is, in fact, sending the full message content over APNS.
    10-28-13 01:56 PM
  18. ukmight's Avatar
    The thing is, I've just tested it again with the app not running, and I see the full message content in the push notification before I open the app.

    So that's not possible unless BlackBerry is, in fact, sending the full message content over APNS.
    I don't think it would be the case since they refused to take that path on Android and are now stuck with the unwanted BBM icon in the notification.
    But if you are seeing the entire message content in the push notification, I am unable to understand the implementation since delivery to the Apple APNs should inform BlackBerry servers to delete the messages from their servers and provide the D icon to the sender.


    Posted via CB10
    10-28-13 02:07 PM
  19. app_Developer's Avatar
    I don't think it would be the case since they refused to take that path on Android and are now stuck with the unwanted BBM icon in the notification.
    I agree that's strange, but if you can get your hands on an iPhone running BBM, you can easily verify this. Force quit the app, and then send that user a message. You'll see it in the notification via APNS. You'll sometimes see that the app did wake up also, but not always. Even in the case where the app failed to wake up, the message content is still there.

    Perhaps they trust APNS more than they do Google's service?

    But if you are seeing the entire message content in the push notification, I am unable to understand the implementation since delivery to the Apple APNs should inform BlackBerry servers to delete the messages from their servers and provide the D icon to the sender.
    Well, since APNS doesn't actually guarantee delivery, I don't think I would use this as proof of delivery myself. I would wait for the app to wake up and get that positive receipt.
    10-28-13 02:28 PM
  20. Benjamin_NYC's Avatar
    I don't think it would be the case since they refused to take that path on Android and are now stuck with the unwanted BBM icon in the notification.
    But if you are seeing the entire message content in the push notification, I am unable to understand the implementation since delivery to the Apple APNs should inform BlackBerry servers to delete the messages from their servers and provide the D icon to the sender.


    Posted via CB10
    Arghhh...what the heck is going on???
    10-28-13 02:30 PM
  21. Alex98's Avatar
    I agree that's strange, but if you can get your hands on an iPhone running BBM, you can easily verify this. Force quit the app, and then send that user a message. You'll see it in the notification via APNS. You'll sometimes see that the app did wake up also, but not always. Even in the case where the app failed to wake up, the message content is still there.

    Perhaps they trust APNS more than they do Google's service?
    Devs have the right to display this kind of notifications on iPhone without using APNS ?
    Because I think I remembre that there is some serious limitations about what you can make run in background in iOS. So, is there any IM that doesn't use APNS to display notifications with content ?
    10-28-13 02:48 PM
  22. app_Developer's Avatar
    Devs have the right to display this kind of notifications on iPhone without using APNS ?
    Yes, you can post a local notification. But it seems that is not what BlackBerry is doing, since I see notifications even when the app isn't running (failed to wake up). The only way this is possible is through APNS.

    Because I think I remembre that there is some serious limitations about what you can make run in background in iOS. So, is there any IM that doesn't use APNS to display notifications with content ?
    Yes, the other option is to send a silent and generic notification via APNS, and then have the app wake up, get the message(s) and post the notification to the user locally. In that case, the delivered status is straightforward.
    10-28-13 02:53 PM
  23. Undbiter65's Avatar
    I agree with you. Cross platform BBM is horrible at the moment. I'm very disappointed. I had to switch back to texting. Over wifi or mobile network. Doesn't matter.

    "If you can't soar with the eagles then don't fly with the flock!" (BBM#18)
    10-28-13 03:11 PM
  24. Alex98's Avatar
    Yes, you can post a local notification. But it seems that is not what BlackBerry is doing, since I see notifications even when the app isn't running (failed to wake up). The only way this is possible is through APNS.



    Yes, the other option is to send a silent and generic notification via APNS, and then have the app wake up, get the message(s) and post the notification to the user locally. In that case, the delivered status is straightforward.

    Thanks for your answer.
    Using WLD, on Android, I can see that the app wakeup my device ema lot more than any other IM so I'm pretty sure it doesn't use GCM and it have to activly runs in background to check message.
    app_Developer likes this.
    10-28-13 03:17 PM
  25. diogoteixeira87's Avatar
    These limitations don't seem to apply to email/text/iMessages/Facebook notifications. But if you want to keep blaming iOS, you go right ahead.
    I'm not blaming. I'm just saying what everybody were discussing here: inability of ios on run apps in background.



    Posted via my awesome BlackBerry Z10
    10-28-13 03:21 PM
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