11-08-14 08:23 PM
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  1. bobo616's Avatar
    I tweeted bla1ze and he asked me to email him which I have done with a link to this post.

    Posted via CB10
    07-08-14 10:42 AM
  2. gnirkatto's Avatar
    This morning I happened to sit with the guy who did the BBM testing with me last week, and with a 3rd person, also on iOS/BBM.

    We could NOT reproduce the problem with the missing notification on the app icon. Regardless of which scenario we tried, there was always the red dot on the icon.
    Last week, we also tried all kinds of scenarios, and there was NEVER EVER a notification on the app icon.

    So while sitting with my friends, I called another iOS/BBM friend, who almost never responded to me in the past because he never got the red notification. I asked him to tell me about whether or not he would see the notification after me sending a message.

    Message 1: notification on icon.
    Message 2, sent shortly after message 1: no notification on icon.
    Message 3, sent a few minutes after message 2: notification on icon.

    We also checked if there was a new BBM for iOS version that got installed secretly, in fact it wasn't. Still the old version that did not work at all last week, but decided to work much better today.

    I therefore suspect this problem to be a BBM server problem, and with when and how the server telling the app on the iPhone to display a notification on the icon. But I might be completely wrong about that, as I have no real insight into how this works.

    THe situation is absolutely maddening, as you cannot rely on whether or not BBM on iOS behaves as it should. According to my testing, an iOS user can never be sure if he did not receive a BBM message, or if BBM just decided to not display a notification on the icon, for whatever reason.

    Whatsapp also has issues from time to time, eg when their server(s) are down. However, as long as the Whatsapp service is up and running, the iOS user will get the notification on both the lock screen AND the icon, regardless of the app running in the background or not. No Whatsapp user that I know has ever reported to me that he did not get an icon notification, when WA service was running and a message arrived. So it IS possible to program this properly.
    07-10-14 12:16 PM
  3. axeman1000's Avatar
    The iOS BBM friend who I met yesterday just called me.
    He, myself and another friend of ours are in a BBM group.
    On last thursday, this other friend posted an image in this group. I received it instantly, I think.
    My iOs friend received notification NOW, on sunday, with a delay of 3 days, despite us doing all this testing with BBM yesterday evening (so BBM was definitely running several times).

    Next bug: group message not delivered to iOS, or user not notified, regardless of BBM running or not.
    Sounds like a apple issue, not Bbm. Surprise surprise apple can't do something right again.
    07-10-14 12:26 PM
  4. bobo616's Avatar
    Why would it be apple? I agree it sounds more like a BlackBerry service issue for ios users.

    Posted via CB10
    Blomsternisse and avt123 like this.
    07-10-14 12:35 PM
  5. Carterbits's Avatar
    I've wondered about it being apple as well, but then why would iMessage and Whatsapp work fine?

    I suppose that BlackBerry could be using some latest and greatest apple API (that other players haven't moved to) though and it could still be buggy as sin?

    Download Noted, my 5-star rated, native BB10 notepad app.
    07-10-14 12:57 PM
  6. gnirkatto's Avatar
    I suppose that BlackBerry could be using some latest and greatest apple API (that other players haven't moved to) though and it could still be buggy as sin?
    This might be the case, but I don't think so. This notification problem exists since BBM for iOS got released ~8 months ago. I do not believe that since then, nobody else started using such APIs.
    Since this worked much better during my today's testing, compared to last week's, I have another theory, but am fully aware this could be total BS:
    Why is the situation much better today, without a new BBM version being released? Might this be BBM server related?
    The banner notification and its appearance gets enabled/disabled in iOS settings. So iOS decides to show a banner notification after a message has arrived. To my knowledge, there is no iOS setting for the app icon notification. So what if it is not iOS only to show app icon notifications, but an additional "external" trigger (besides a message arriving) has to fire? So if we assume the bug is not within the app (because totally different behaviour without version change), and not in iOS (WA and other messaging apps do fine), it may sound logical that this might be an external (out of the phone) issue...? What if the BBM server has to send additonal information or commands, to get the notification displayed, and what if the server didn't do this correctly? And what if somebody tried to improve this, between last week and today?

    Like I said, this may be complete BS, but at the moment I do not have a better theory ready.
    07-10-14 02:21 PM
  7. gnirkatto's Avatar
    Several iOS BBM users reported to me the following:
    When they tap on the banner notification for a new BBM message, they often do not get any new message displayed once BBM has opened. Closing/reopening BBM will then display the new message in most cases.

    Next BBM / iOS bug.

    Posted via CB10
    07-11-14 05:16 AM
  8. newcollector's Avatar
    The bug that my wife has is this: I will send and she will get a BBM message and read it. That was yesterday. Today she gets another notification and it is for the same message! Other times I will send and she won't get a notification. It's a conundrum.

    Posted via CB10 via my Z10
    07-12-14 10:48 AM
  9. sebstarr's Avatar
    Yup. Losing ios friends on the daily because of these issues. So frustrating as someone noted that it is not even being acknowledged by BlackBerry

    From my z30
    Blomsternisse likes this.
    07-15-14 05:54 PM
  10. bobo616's Avatar
    They must be content for ios users to use WhatsApp or alternative.

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-14 09:28 AM
  11. bobshine's Avatar
    I noticed with the recent iOS update that the iPhone won't kill BBM anymore when it runs in background. As long as the user don't close BBM, it will work well

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-14 09:33 AM
  12. gnirkatto's Avatar
    I noticed with the recent iOS update that the iPhone won't kill BBM anymore when it runs in background. As long as the user don't close BBM, it will work well

    Posted via CB10
    This is true. As long as it is running in the background, it seems to work better.
    However, most of my friends use to close apps on a regular basis.
    And it is not smart for a messenger to having to stay open all time. You will never know, "did I not get any message in a while, or did I just mistakenly close the app? Or maybe I forgot to start it up after turning my phone on?".

    And, Whatsapp does definitely NOT have to run in the background to work properly. We tested that.
    Blomsternisse likes this.
    07-16-14 02:58 PM
  13. gnirkatto's Avatar
    One iOS BBM friend told me yesterday that he got a notification on the BBM icon, after I sent him a message, and without his BBM running in the background.
    Another iOS BBM friend, who I sent a message 3 days ago, which stayed on D all the time, told me today that she didn't get aware of my message, as there was never a notification on the BBM icon.

    Both are on the same iOS and BBM levels. Both use to close apps when not in use.

    So the bug is intermittent. Which does not help to make BBM on iOS become more reliable or trustworthy. I think I'll be soon left alone with 1 or 2 iOS BBM friends, down from over 15. And the 1 or 2 who will be left will do so just to do me a favour. Not because they think that BBM on iOS is any good.

    I really really don't understand how BB functions, internally.
    07-23-14 07:22 AM
  14. gnirkatto's Avatar
    Sent a message to a iOS BBM friend on friday.
    It stayed on grey until now (sunday).
    I called him, and he told me that the message arrived on friday, right after I sent it, and he saw the notification on the lock screen. No need to open BBM as there was no reply requested, and the message was rather short.

    So BBM on iOS does apparently not acknowledge a message as "Delivered", until BBM and the message was opened.

    This is wrong wrong wrong. For the sender, the message should show "D", as soon as the message was DELIVERED to the device. The issue is, that one of the alleged "awesome features" of BBM (the Ds and Rs) do not work like the should. THerefore much less awesomness, and ANOTHER BBM/iOS bug.
    07-27-14 06:59 AM
  15. gnirkatto's Avatar
    I would like to add another observation that I made:

    one iOS BBM friend has an iPhone 4s. Another one has a 5s. Both are on the same iOS level (the latest).

    I noticed that the notification issues behave differently on the 4 and the 5. On the 5, the icon notification seems to work a little more reliable than on the 4. On the other hand, the guy with the 5 reports that there are sometimes notifications, and then there is no new message that arried.

    I have no explanation for this, and no option of continuing this testing forever (without driving my friends crazy, who would rather abandon BBM due to the many issues). And it seems to be obvious that iOS is not really easy to handle for a programmer.

    But, and I mentioned that already, how did the Whatsapp guys get this under control? Why is BB not able? After such a long time?
    07-27-14 07:05 AM
  16. Sally Mack's Avatar
    This is wrong wrong wrong. For the sender, the message should show "D", as soon as the message was DELIVERED to the device. The issue is, that one of the alleged "awesome features" of BBM (the Ds and Rs) do not work like the should. THerefore much less awesomness, and ANOTHER BBM/iOS bug.
    This is a known limitation among all cross platform im apps. This is why whatsapp doesn't have delivered or read notifications (they have left the phone and hit the server). This is why kik has a "grey" D because it's an educated guess that the message was delivered until the app is opened (at which point the D turns black).

    So in short, the limitation largely has to do with ios more so than bbm.
    07-28-14 10:47 PM
  17. app_Developer's Avatar
    This is a known limitation among all cross platform im apps. This is why whatsapp doesn't have delivered or read notifications (they have left the phone and hit the server). This is why kik has a "grey" D because it's an educated guess that the message was delivered until the app is opened (at which point the D turns black).

    So in short, the limitation largely has to do with ios more so than bbm.
    This was an issue for third party apps before iOS7. But a proper D is absolutely possible for third party apps in iOS7. BB should take advantage of this since most iOS users are on 7, and will soon be on 8 in a several weeks.

    Very few people are running iOS6.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    avt123 and gnirkatto like this.
    07-28-14 10:51 PM
  18. Sally Mack's Avatar
    This was an issue for third party apps before iOS7. But a proper D is absolutely possible for third party apps in iOS7. BB should take advantage of this since most iOS users are on 7, and will soon be on 8 in a several weeks.

    Very few people are running iOS6.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    You've mentioned this before, but even kik still has the "grey D" I believe. I wonder if they're relying on older functionality to maintain compatibility.

    I believe you even submitted this feedback to BlackBerry. What was their response?
    07-29-14 10:40 AM
  19. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    This is a known limitation among all cross platform im apps. This is why whatsapp doesn't have delivered or read notifications (they have left the phone and hit the server). This is why kik has a "grey" D because it's an educated guess that the message was delivered until the app is opened (at which point the D turns black).

    So in short, the limitation largely has to do with ios more so than bbm.
    The point is being missed that Whatsapp at least shows you when your contact was last online. This turns out to be a very reliable method of at least knowing your contact has likely seen your message when it shows they have been online.

    With BBM to iOS one is simply left in the dark all too often for delivery notification. So... yes, in fact Whatsapp is better in this regard.

    Posted via CB10
    08-02-14 02:14 PM
  20. avt123's Avatar
    Sent a message to a iOS BBM friend on friday.
    It stayed on grey until now (sunday).
    I called him, and he told me that the message arrived on friday, right after I sent it, and he saw the notification on the lock screen. No need to open BBM as there was no reply requested, and the message was rather short.

    So BBM on iOS does apparently not acknowledge a message as "Delivered", until BBM and the message was opened.

    This is wrong wrong wrong. For the sender, the message should show "D", as soon as the message was DELIVERED to the device. The issue is, that one of the alleged "awesome features" of BBM (the Ds and Rs) do not work like the should. THerefore much less awesomness, and ANOTHER BBM/iOS bug.
    Interesting. When BBM appears on my lockscreen, it is shown as delivered on the device that sent it (I have tested this with multiple friends using their Z10 and my iPhone 5S). Only if the message is opened will it show an "R" for read. BBM and the message does not need to be opened for the message to show as "delivered". This sounds more like a server side bug or crappy data connection.
    08-02-14 07:12 PM
  21. app_Developer's Avatar
    You've mentioned this before, but even kik still has the "grey D" I believe. I wonder if they're relying on older functionality to maintain compatibility.

    I believe you even submitted this feedback to BlackBerry. What was their response?
    I did provide the feedback, including specific instructions on how to do this and links to WWDC videos that describe how to do this, but I didn't hear anything back.

    We tried BBM for Windows this week in the office, and it's terrible, too. I don't understand why BlackBerry can't hire good developers. Chen really needs to set up a shop in SV to focus on this issue. I understand BlackBerry might not be the smartest career move for a top developer right now, but they could at least think about letting a few contracts to get the apps in order.

    It's frustrating because if they want to compete, even in the enterprise sector, they are ultimately going to have to raise their standard on the app side of the house.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 08-02-14 at 07:29 PM.
    08-02-14 07:18 PM
  22. Carterbits's Avatar
    I did provide the feedback, including specific instructions on how to do this and links to WWDC videos that describe how to do this, but I didn't hear anything back.

    We tried BBM for Windows this week in the office, and it's terrible, too. I don't understand why BlackBerry can't hire good developers. Chen really needs to set up a shop in SV to focus on this issue. I understand BlackBerry might not be the smartest career move for a top developer right now, but they could at least think about letting a few contracts to get the apps in order.

    It's frustrating because if they want to compete, even in the enterprise sector, they are ultimately going to have to raise their standard on the app side of the house.
    My daughter and I have been trying BBM for Windows out and it is horrible. Sometimes it's a say or two before messages appear on her phone.

    Download Noted, my 5-star rated, native BB10 notepad app.
    08-02-14 08:41 PM
  23. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Interesting. When BBM appears on my lockscreen, it is shown as delivered on the device that sent it (I have tested this with multiple friends using their Z10 and my iPhone 5S). Only if the message is opened will it show an "R" for read. BBM and the message does not need to be opened for the message to show as "delivered". This sounds more like a server side bug or crappy data connection.
    I have tested this multiple times from my Z10 to many iPhone 4s, 5 and 5s and find exactly the opposite... it most often does NOT show delivery unless receiving iPhone actually has BBM app open (regardless of how their notifications are set).

    In some cases, if they have recently used BBM, it will show D on sender's end. In all cases, if they have not opened the BBM app for a while (not conclusive on amount of time but seems to be about 36 hours) it will only show check mark on sending end... then once receiver opens BBM will show D and R in rapid succession.

    Posted via CB10
    08-02-14 09:23 PM
  24. gnirkatto's Avatar
    Interesting. When BBM appears on my lockscreen, it is shown as delivered on the device that sent it (I have tested this with multiple friends using their Z10 and my iPhone 5S). Only if the message is opened will it show an "R" for read. BBM and the message does not need to be opened for the message to show as "delivered". This sounds more like a server side bug or crappy data connection.
    LIke I said in my message following the one that you qouted, BBM seems to behave differently on the iPhone 4 and the 5. The notification on the BBM icon seems to show a little more often than on the 4 (where it basically never shows).
    08-03-14 04:45 AM
  25. gnirkatto's Avatar
    We tried BBM for Windows this week in the office, and it's terrible, too. I don't understand why BlackBerry can't hire good developers. Chen really needs to set up a shop in SV to focus on this issue. I understand BlackBerry might not be the smartest career move for a top developer right now, but they could at least think about letting a few contracts to get the apps in order.

    It's frustrating because if they want to compete, even in the enterprise sector, they are ultimately going to have to raise their standard on the app side of the house.
    I hate it, but have to agree.
    Like I said it in an earlier post in this (or in a different BBM) thread, I think it is more a management problem that they are facing - trying to roll out apps for platforms that they don't have good development skills for. I'm sure their developers try hard - but it is not gonna work, if you don't have the skills in the team.
    08-03-14 04:53 AM
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