02-22-20 10:33 AM
86 123 ...
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  1. PsihoKey2's Avatar
    There is now well known issue, delivery reports to those who send message to iOS13 user will arrive ONLY when iOS13 user enters app or notification. Also, for this iOS13 users, messages will start to load in groups when he enters app.
    This is all due to new 'rules' iO13 has for IM apps like BBMe, Viber etc....
    For now, ONLY BBMe implemented this change, and hence is not working as expected. Other apps have untill APRIL to implement this iOS13 rules to its code, and will work similarly.
    One more proof BBMe is the most professional app of this sort is that they implemented this FIRST (even though it doesn't work correctly)
    LUCKILY, there is a lot of info from people who are close to developers and help team, that we will have fix for this and it is coming soon, and todays update will be just one of few...upcoming.. Then when final update arrives, delivery reports, and message loading on iOS will work correctly
    Rest assured this is being solved, and stay tuned.
    BBMe will stay best IM app on planet, and will be here for us who appreciate privacy, quality and security. For sure better than 3rd party apps like Telegram, Viber etc... which are 'free' (actually you pay with your privacy).
    Last edited by PsihoKey2; 01-31-20 at 01:54 PM.
    01-31-20 01:40 PM
  2. Sigewif's Avatar
    There is now well known issue, delivery reports to those who send message to iOS13 user will arrive ONLY when iOS13 user enters app or notification. Also, for this iOS13 users, messages will start to load in groups when he enters app.
    This is all due to new 'rules' iO13 has for IM apps like BBMe, Viber etc....
    For now, ONLY BBMe implemented this change, and hence is not working as expected. Other apps have untill APRIL to implement this iOS13 rules to its code, and will work similarly.
    One more proof BBMe is the most professional app of this sort is that they implemented this FIRST (even though it doesn't work correctly)
    LUCKILY, from very source, highest possible from BBMe development, we have news that fix for this is in advanced stages of works, and todays update is just 1/3. When 3rd update arrives, delivery reports, and message loading on iOS will work flawlessly.
    Rest assured this is truth, and stay tuned.
    BBMe will stay best IM app on planet, and will be here for us who appreciate privacy, quality and security. For sure better than 3rd party apps like Telegram, Viber etc... which are 'free' (actually you pay with your privacy).
    This is good news. I don't use any iOS devices myself but am glad my BBMe friends who do, have a solution coming soon.
    Rico4you likes this.
    01-31-20 01:46 PM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    I respectfully disagree with this. I think the developers there are still drinking the BB kool-aid on this one.

    Other chat services were not using the VoIP rules for all notifications and haven’t for many years. One reason is that it is an enormous waste of resources. (To be clear the only thing changing is VoIP bg model, not chat notifications in general. Huge difference)

    BB developers are talking about “security” as an excuse for bad design and poor understanding of how mobile OSes work. This is the hubris that I saw personally with all of my interactions with the BB10 team when we were trying to make a banking app for them.
    01-31-20 01:49 PM
  4. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    There is now well known issue, delivery reports to those who send message to iOS13 user will arrive ONLY when iOS13 user enters app or notification. Also, for this iOS13 users, messages will start to load in groups when he enters app.
    This is all due to new 'rules' iO13 has for IM apps like BBMe, Viber etc....
    For now, ONLY BBMe implemented this change, and hence is not working as expected. Other apps have untill APRIL to implement this iOS13 rules to its code, and will work similarly.
    One more proof BBMe is the most professional app of this sort is that they implemented this FIRST (even though it doesn't work correctly)
    LUCKILY, there is a lot of info from people who are close to developers and help team, that we will have fix for this and it is coming soon, and todays update will be just one of few...upcoming.. Then when final update arrives, delivery reports, and message loading on iOS will work correctly
    Rest assured this is being solved, and stay tuned.
    BBMe will stay best IM app on planet, and will be here for us who appreciate privacy, quality and security. For sure better than 3rd party apps like Telegram, Viber etc... which are 'free' (actually you pay with your privacy).
    Then why not hold the initial update that broke BBMe on iOS, till April or whenever then had more than 1/3 of the fix ready?

    Bottom line is you can't break functionality and expect users to just accept it... Many that used BBMe for work, had to find another working solution right then. Will they come back once BlackBerry has the full fix in place... maybe or maybe not.
    01-31-20 01:59 PM
  5. John Albert's Avatar
    I don't agree with that reasoning and don't find out that BBMe is superior to other IM apps like WhatsApp and Telegram.

    However, my thoughts are with iOS, 13 BBMe users.
    01-31-20 02:05 PM
  6. PsihoKey2's Avatar
    Then why not hold the initial update that broke BBMe on iOS, till April or whenever then had more than 1/3 of the fix ready?

    Bottom line is you can't break functionality and expect users to just accept it... Many that used BBMe for work, had to find another working solution right then. Will they come back once BlackBerry has the full fix in place... maybe or maybe not.
    Good point, but I really don't have answer for that.
    However, I hope it will get fixed and soon, I really like this app and its features.
    01-31-20 02:06 PM
  7. PsihoKey2's Avatar
    I respectfully disagree with this. I think the developers there are still drinking the BB kool-aid on this one.

    Other chat services were not using the VoIP rules for all notifications and haven’t for many years. One reason is that it is an enormous waste of resources. (To be clear the only thing changing is VoIP bg model, not chat notifications in general. Huge difference)

    BB developers are talking about “security” as an excuse for bad design and poor understanding of how mobile OSes work. This is the hubris that I saw personally with all of my interactions with the BB10 team when we were trying to make a banking app for them.
    There is article I posted here on forums that all apps will have to implement this by April...
    It's going to be interesting to see what's gonna happen...
    01-31-20 02:07 PM
  8. Emaderton3's Avatar
    I am sorry, but this false reasoning is not going to drive the masses to outdated software.
    01-31-20 02:22 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    There is article I posted here on forums that all apps will have to implement this by April...
    It's going to be interesting to see what's gonna happen...
    Hint: no other messaging app will have any issue whatsoever.

    As I posted in the other thread:

    Two weeks is completely unacceptable for an app that claims to be a core messenging component to anyone's critical infrastructure.

    They have now clearly demonstrated that they cannot be counted on, and are no longer a viable choice if they ever were to begin with.
    01-31-20 03:06 PM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I respectfully disagree with this. I think the developers there are still drinking the BB kool-aid on this one.

    Other chat services were not using the VoIP rules for all notifications and haven’t for many years. One reason is that it is an enormous waste of resources. (To be clear the only thing changing is VoIP bg model, not chat notifications in general. Huge difference)

    BB developers are talking about “security” as an excuse for bad design and poor understanding of how mobile OSes work. This is the hubris that I saw personally with all of my interactions with the BB10 team when we were trying to make a banking app for them.
    Then why not hold the initial update that broke BBMe on iOS, till April or whenever then had more than 1/3 of the fix ready?

    Bottom line is you can't break functionality and expect users to just accept it... Many that used BBMe for work, had to find another working solution right then. Will they come back once BlackBerry has the full fix in place... maybe or maybe not.
    The point of messaging app is to message and receive notifications for continuous dialogue in real time. I rely on SMS/MMS domestically and WhatsApp internationally. What do I need BBMe for? I was going to keep it to be supportive of BlackBerry Limited and such but if not fixed then it has no functionality for iOS users and for them I have iMessage so I’m not sure of any benefit.
    01-31-20 03:12 PM
  11. app_Developer's Avatar
    There is article I posted here on forums that all apps will have to implement this by April...
    It's going to be interesting to see what's gonna happen...
    I don’t know what you mean by “this”. The only thing changing is VoIP background rules. This affects others only wrt VoIP. For BBM it has a bigger impact because they have a poor design and were apparently using VoIP background model for ALL message notifications. (Essentially counting on a persistent or mostly persistent connection). That is a terrible design for a mobile app. They made similar bad choices on BB10.

    Hopefully they get it right. But the response I heard from their developer sounded like the same old BB hubris.
    Mecca EL and chain13 like this.
    01-31-20 03:45 PM
  12. PsihoKey2's Avatar
    I don’t know what you mean by “this”. The only thing changing is VoIP background rules. This affects others only wrt VoIP. For BBM it has a bigger impact because they have a poor design and were apparently using VoIP background model for ALL message notifications. (Essentially counting on a persistent or mostly persistent connection). That is a terrible design for a mobile app. They made similar bad choices on BB10.

    Hopefully they get it right. But the response I heard from their developer sounded like the same old BB hubris.
    'This' means this:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/applein...-voip-apps/amp
    01-31-20 05:41 PM
  13. app_Developer's Avatar

    And the "this" in that article is NOT a general change in how message notifications work or how notifications are supposed to work. It *only* changes the bg rules for VoIP apps. BBM (as far as I can tell in my own analysis because the developer was characteristically dismissive), misused the VoIP background rules to depend on their own connection to deliver notifications and read receipts, even for basic text/pic messages.

    There is a way to do this that is completely secure and also much better. We do this in banking and all the bigger secure messaging apps do it the right way also.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 01-31-20 at 06:24 PM.
    chain13 likes this.
    01-31-20 05:53 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    When BlackBerry finally realizes it’s poor treatment of iOS customers, it will be too late.
    01-31-20 06:26 PM
  15. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Yes, you keep posting that article. It doesn’t say what you seem to think it says.

    This change doesn’t affect the way other messaging apps deliver text messages. It only reveals how badly designed and coded BBM for iOS is.
    John Albert likes this.
    02-01-20 08:49 AM
  16. PsihoKey2's Avatar
    Yes, you keep posting that article. It doesn’t say what you seem to think it says.

    This change doesn’t affect the way other messaging apps deliver text messages. It only reveals how badly designed and coded BBM for iOS is.
    You keep missing the point, by April ALL IM apps will have to change way they work on iOS13, and so far BBMe did it, rest apps didn't...
    So we don't know if other apps will behave correctly...
    Important is that fix is on its way...at least for us who love and use BBMe...
    02-01-20 08:52 AM
  17. PsihoKey2's Avatar
    When BlackBerry finally realizes it’s poor treatment of iOS customers, it will be too late.
    I agree it is very critical to solve this asap
    02-01-20 08:52 AM
  18. chain13's Avatar
    iOS users are lucky then. They don’t need to spill a cup of coffee for messenger-like app that ‘doesn’t work out of the box’. Though none of my contact uses bbm/e anymore (I bet most people too).
    John Albert and Mecca EL like this.
    02-01-20 08:54 AM
  19. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    You keep missing the point, by April ALL IM apps will have to change way they work on iOS13, and so far BBMe did it, rest apps didn't...
    You’re the one who’s missing the point. The only change here is in how background processing works for Voice Over IP applications. Other apps aren’t using that functionality for push delivery of text messages. BBM currently is, because its iOS client design has been flawed from the beginning.
    02-01-20 09:00 AM
  20. chain13's Avatar
    You keep missing the point, by April ALL IM apps will have to change way they work on iOS13, and so far BBMe did it, rest apps didn't...
    So we don't know if other apps will behave correctly...
    Important is that fix is on its way...at least for us who love and use BBMe...
    Most messenger apps in ios use voip architecture only for their video/call features, not for their push message/chats. That’s why, when apple released a new voip handling method back in april, devs could simply implemented it in no time. BBMe on the other hand, use the voip architecture for both push-message and call, which screwed both functions when new voip handling released in iOS13. And they barely can’t fix it until now.
    app_Developer and Mecca EL like this.
    02-01-20 09:12 AM
  21. conite's Avatar
    You keep missing the point, by April ALL IM apps will have to change way they work on iOS13, and so far BBMe did it, rest apps didn't...
    So we don't know if other apps will behave correctly...
    Important is that fix is on its way...at least for us who love and use BBMe...
    No, this is not correct. Only BBMe is affected by this because they are not properly coding the app.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    02-01-20 10:05 AM
  22. PsihoKey2's Avatar
    No, this is not correct. Only BBMe is affected by this because they are not properly coding the app.
    I hope you are correct!
    02-01-20 10:22 AM
  23. app_Developer's Avatar
    You keep missing the point, by April ALL IM apps will have to change way they work on iOS13, and so far BBMe did it, rest apps didn't...
    So we don't know if other apps will behave correctly...
    Important is that fix is on its way...at least for us who love and use BBMe...
    No major messaging app is going to be affected by this change. Messaging apps are not supposed to count on or try to maintain a persistent connection to their servers. It’s impractical if every app tries to do that; especially since phones hop from network to network all day long as people move about.

    In the old days of BBOS it was different. The phone maintained a BIS or BES connection always and as long as the little BB icon was lit up that connection was there and I think BBM leaned on that. BB had to maintain co-located network equipment with every carrier in the world to make that work. Companies and/or people had to pay fees to pay for all that. I used to pay a BIS fee on my Cingular bill for this service.

    That doesn’t work on modern phones or when you have billions of users around the world. The right way to notify an IM app that you have new messages for a user is to send a notification through APNS. It can be empty if you want. Or just a count. On the device you will have registered a block (a closure) that the OS will schedule on a queue of your choice as soon as that empty note comes in. Your queue will then process your block very quickly and you have a window to connect home and securely retrieve the messag using your own auth and crypto of your choice. This is how Twitter and FB and Slack and major banking apps do it. Basically any company who has developers and architects who are humble and curious to go to WWDC or Google IO with a notebook and write down the state of the art in the mobile business.

    This method is safe (you still have full control of auth and security). It is fast. The OS can provide guarantees for delivery and manage this across all the users apps so that it is seamless as she runs out of the office to go to take a break at Blue Bottle crossing 5 network boundaries at least on that trip. Also the OS can reorder as needed to conserve battery life. Often coalescing activity can save a lot of energy with only about 100-200ms of additional latency. The user won’t notice the 100ms latency as much as she will notice the message not being delivered at all or being hours late or the app draining her battery for no good reason.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 02-01-20 at 11:12 AM.
    Ecm, chain13 and Mecca EL like this.
    02-01-20 10:56 AM
  24. conite's Avatar
    I hope you are correct!
    You do understand that if the coffin hadn't already been nailed shut, this ongoing disaster would, in fact, be the last nail, right? This is far, far beyond inexcusable.
    02-01-20 11:12 AM
  25. KvnCastleberry's Avatar
    Why is this guy explaining the faults of the app? Who cares? The app is 10/10!
    02-01-20 11:41 AM
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