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If your contacts at BBMe are telling you that all IM apps will have to be "fixed" by April, they are seriously misinformed. And that is scary for BBMe if their senior developers are *that* misinformed.
IM operations are not affected or changed for anyone. VoIP will be for some. BUT I just tested several video and audio calls on WA between two devices (Android and iOS), including killing the app at different points and running both devices through a proxy to watch network traffic and the current version of WA on iOS seems to be compliant with the new rules. I'm sure they are testing and monitoring this will hundreds of millions of iOS users worldwide and will find edge cases and tweaks between now and April, but as far as I can tell they already have this mostly correct.
And again, that is for VoIP. Their basic IM functionality has been correct for years now. I believe the current recommended IM mechanism on iOS is from 2014 or so.
And again, I joined some BBM groups for a little while recently and the notifications on iOS were totally random. I was getting probably 20% of them several hours late. Many never reached me at all.
If the problem is that their codebase is still on ObjC, then shame on them. Swift is almost 6 years old now. But even in ObjC, it is still possible to do this correctly, there are just perhaps fewer examples to borrow from. But if they want to reach out to me on BBMe for advice or help, I can help point them in the right direction. Or they can reach out here. Or they can just talk to Apple, they have really great developer relations people.
I don't consult anymore, so no charge or anything. Just as a CB community thing I would help. But they can't say "oh security, blah blah". IF they want iOS users they have to do this the right way, and it will still be just as secure and be reliable and not waste my battery so much.Last edited by app_Developer; 02-01-20 at 01:09 PM.
Mecca EL likes this.02-01-20 12:55 PMLike 1 -
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I should say that if the BBMe team wants to reach out to me for help with this, I probably won't respond immediately due to the fact that I won't see the notification on BBM for several hours.02-01-20 01:23 PMLike 2 -
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Good explainationNo major messaging app is going to be affected by this change. Messaging apps are not supposed to count on or try to maintain a persistent connection to their servers. It’s impractical if every app tries to do that; especially since phones hop from network to network all day long as people move about.
In the old days of BBOS it was different. The phone maintained a BIS or BES connection always and as long as the little BB icon was lit up that connection was there and I think BBM leaned on that. BB had to maintain co-located network equipment with every carrier in the world to make that work. Companies and/or people had to pay fees to pay for all that. I used to pay a BIS fee on my Cingular bill for this service.
That doesn’t work on modern phones or when you have billions of users around the world. The right way to notify an IM app that you have new messages for a user is to send a notification through APNS. It can be empty if you want. Or just a count. On the device you will have registered a block (a closure) that the OS will schedule on a queue of your choice as soon as that empty note comes in. Your queue will then process your block very quickly and you have a window to connect home and securely retrieve the messag using your own auth and crypto of your choice. This is how Twitter and FB and Slack and major banking apps do it. Basically any company who has developers and architects who are humble and curious to go to WWDC or Google IO with a notebook and write down the state of the art in the mobile business.
This method is safe (you still have full control of auth and security). It is fast. The OS can provide guarantees for delivery and manage this across all the users apps so that it is seamless as she runs out of the office to go to take a break at Blue Bottle crossing 5 network boundaries at least on that trip. Also the OS can reorder as needed to conserve battery life. Often coalescing activity can save a lot of energy with only about 100-200ms of additional latency. The user won’t notice the 100ms latency as much as she will notice the message not being delivered at all or being hours late or the app draining her battery for no good reason.02-01-20 06:04 PMLike 0 -
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I believe you understand this issue way more than me, as you explained to me privately, you are expert so I believe you. But I also trust BBMe technical and development team when they say that will give solution asap....and yes, I do think situation is urgent to be solved, and I do hope it will be solved....If your contacts at BBMe are telling you that all IM apps will have to be "fixed" by April, they are seriously misinformed. And that is scary for BBMe if their senior developers are *that* misinformed.
IM operations are not affected or changed for anyone. VoIP will be for some. BUT I just tested several video and audio calls on WA between two devices (Android and iOS), including killing the app at different points and running both devices through a proxy to watch network traffic and the current version of WA on iOS seems to be compliant with the new rules. I'm sure they are testing and monitoring this will hundreds of millions of iOS users worldwide and will find edge cases and tweaks between now and April, but as far as I can tell they already have this mostly correct.
And again, that is for VoIP. Their basic IM functionality has been correct for years now. I believe the current recommended IM mechanism on iOS is from 2014 or so.
And again, I joined some BBM groups for a little while recently and the notifications on iOS were totally random. I was getting probably 20% of them several hours late. Many never reached me at all.
If the problem is that their codebase is still on ObjC, then shame on them. Swift is almost 6 years old now. But even in ObjC, it is still possible to do this correctly, there are just perhaps fewer examples to borrow from. But if they want to reach out to me on BBMe for advice or help, I can help point them in the right direction. Or they can reach out here. Or they can just talk to Apple, they have really great developer relations people.
I don't consult anymore, so no charge or anything. Just as a CB community thing I would help. But they can't say "oh security, blah blah". IF they want iOS users they have to do this the right way, and it will still be just as secure and be reliable and not waste my battery so much.chain13 likes this.02-01-20 06:54 PMLike 1 -
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I guess I was very surprised by your claim on the first post of this thread that other IM apps are affected by this (they are not) or this is proof that BBM is the "most professional" IM app because they are addressing this first. The reality is that other IM apps did this correctly years ago and BBM is only fixing their design now (way behind everyone else) because the bad way they were doing this is going from unreliable to unacceptable to (as of April) totally unavailable.I believe you understand this issue way more than me, as you explained to me privately, you are expert so I believe you. But I also trust BBMe technical and development team when they say that will give solution asap....and yes, I do think situation is urgent to be solved, and I do hope it will be solved....
I hope they will now catch up to everyone else and do this properly and reliably. The most recent version which was supposed to be a fix leads me to think they don't know what they are doing on iOS. The iOS app has always been bad which is further evidence they really don't know iOS. I guess we'll see how the next version is.Mecca EL likes this.02-01-20 08:09 PMLike 1 -
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Since original cross platform BBM, the iOS version has been nothing but trouble for BlackBerry for whatever reason.I guess I was very surprised by your claim on the first post of this thread that other IM apps are affected by this (they are not) or this is proof that BBM is the "most professional" IM app because they are addressing this first. The reality is that other IM apps did this correctly years ago and BBM is only fixing their design now (way behind everyone else) because the bad way they were doing this is going from unreliable to unacceptable to (as of April) totally unavailable.
I hope they will now catch up to everyone else and do this properly and reliably. The most recent version which was supposed to be a fix leads me to think they don't know what they are doing on iOS. The iOS app has always been bad which is further evidence they really don't know iOS. I guess we'll see how the next version is.02-01-20 08:48 PMLike 0 -
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Either BBMe is cross-platform or it’s not. Six years to deal with all kinds of these iOS problems is long enough. Under Emtek, BBM even had special iOS beta testing because of all these extra issues. Enough by now or the beginning of the final end. This has been like the KISS farewell tour begun in the 90s and dragged out02-02-20 12:40 PMLike 0 -
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I haven't used BBM in ages, mostly because of the reason mentioned below - hours of background usage and battery drain.
02-02-20 12:44 PMLike 0 -
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No, nobody else is going to have any trouble in April with messaging. This April issue with messaging is BBM specific and is solely because BB had a bad design where they used VoIP privileges for basic messaging. Nobody else did that because it is unreliable at best.
Messaging and VoIP are two different things. They only reason they got conflated in BBM is because BBM for iOS was designed poorly and that is why it has always been unreliable since the first version of BBM for iOS. It went from unreliable to unusable with the latest release.
Again, I am not aware of any other messaging app on iOS that abused VoIP privileges in this way. Everybody else that I can think of or tested (WA, Slack, Teams, Kik, Messenger, Twitter, IG) all did this correctly, and have done so correctly for years.chain13 likes this.02-02-20 03:37 PMLike 1
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