06-04-14 09:18 AM
107 123 ...
tools
  1. gnirkatto's Avatar
    Stiftung Warentest is a well known German testing and rating agency for all kinds of goods, like cars, toasters, cameras, food, phones, software/apps etc. Just a few hours ago, they published a review on a couple of Whatsapp Alternatives. One of them was BBM. It received the worst rating available, "very critical", the same as Whatsapp! I will try to translate and highlight their key arguments:

    • it could not be clarified if BBM usese end-to.end encryption.
    • the iOS-version transfers user data partly unencrypted.
    • the iOS version forwards first and last names to others.
    • the iOS version potentially transfers message content without encryption.
    • the iOS version transfers the email id of the user in encrypted format.
    • the Android version transfers user data in encrypted format
    • the Android version transfers user name, password, first and last name, date of birth, home country, security question & answer
    • both versions transfer address book entries, but only with the user agreeing explicitely.
    • one can also use BBM if the user does not allow the address book data to be read.
    • the Ts&Cs the user has to agree to contain a couple of problematic clauses.
    • collected data can be combined with data from other sources
    • the company (BBRY) can easily create personal profiles and tailor advertising campaigns accordingly
    • BBRY leaves it open, which information will be shared with who.
    • the app is not open source, therefore it couldn't be clarified which other data is being transferred

    Well. 1st of all don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger. I don't believe everything that they said, but can't prove all of it to be wrong. All I know is that giving BBM the same disastrous rating as Whatsapp is just plain BS & outright ridiculous.
    The problem is, as always, that 99.9% of all users who read this will not dig into the details and just put BBM into a box with all the almost criminal organizations that steal, misuse or sell data.

    By the way, the other messengers that were tested got the following ratings: Threema (not critical), Telegram (critical), Line (very critical), Whatsapp (very critical).
    02-26-14 06:37 PM
  2. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Oh my.

    I don't think it's a shock that BBRY collects data, but still
    kbz1960 likes this.
    02-26-14 06:51 PM
  3. Anilu7's Avatar
    So their complaint is lack of encryption? It's a social messaging app, not for regulated industries. If true, then look into eBBM for security. Someone (not OP) sounds paranoid here.
    02-27-14 02:17 AM
  4. pm0001's Avatar
    I read the test too and i was a little bit shocked at the first moment.

    But as Anilu7 said, what should people await?

    BBM for Android & iOS is for free. So everyone should be clear that it means, user data will be collected and moneytized.
    Threema is an good example how the system works - you want some features which will take the control of information collecting to your hand - pay for it. Same as BlackBerry Plans with eBBM / BBM Protect.

    In the end the user takes the messenger which have the most users -> and thats still whatsapp :/
    02-27-14 03:00 AM
  5. gnirkatto's Avatar
    I read the test too and i was a little bit shocked at the first moment.

    But as Anilu7 said, what should people await?

    BBM for Android & iOS is for free. So everyone should be clear that it means, user data will be collected and moneytized.
    Threema is an good example how the system works - you want some features which will take the control of information collecting to your hand - pay for it. Same as BlackBerry Plans with eBBM / BBM Protect.

    In the end the user takes the messenger which have the most users -> and thats still whatsapp :/
    Wow this is a dangerous attitude - for BB. If there is one thing that BB - and therefore also BBM - always claimed to be on top of their list of priorities, then it is safety. Nobody at BB ever (publicly?) said something like "...if you use a messenger you just have to live with the fact that your data is no longer safe...". On the contrary, their safety technology was always advertised for (justified or not).
    I think that if they give up on the safety front, then the battle with Whatsapp & co. will be lost instantly. BBM is not that nice and easy to handle to become a self-runner, without a compelling argument. So they better take this seriously. Just MHO.
    richardat likes this.
    02-27-14 04:18 AM
  6. pm0001's Avatar
    Wow this is a dangerous attitude - for BB. If there is one thing that BB - and therefore also BBM - always claimed to be on top of their list of priorities, then it is safety. Nobody at BB ever (publicly?) said something like "...if you use a messenger you just have to live with the fact that your data is no longer safe...". On the contrary, their safety technology was always advertised for (justified or not).
    I think that if they give up on the safety front, then the battle with Whatsapp & co. will be lost instantly. BBM is not that nice and easy to handle to become a self-runner, without a compelling argument. So they better take this seriously. Just MHO.
    Don't think this is a dangerous attitude. People have to realize that such services can't be for free. BBM on Blackberry itself was paid via extra Data Services before BB10. Such Services costs money and if the user is not willing to pay directly, he have to pay passive. So user data is collected and moneytized like dozen of 'free' services do.
    People don't read the Terms of Services where such information is clearly written.
    So it's not a fault of BB only - MHO.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    02-27-14 04:47 AM
  7. gnirkatto's Avatar
    Don't think this is a dangerous attitude. People have to realize that such services can't be for free. BBM on Blackberry itself was paid via extra Data Services before BB10. Such Services costs money and if the user is not willing to pay directly, he have to pay passive. So user data is collected and moneytized like dozen of 'free' services do.
    People don't read the Terms of Services where such information is clearly written.
    So it's not a fault of BB only - MHO.
    I was not sufficiently precise in expressing what I wanted to say, sorry. Not your attitude is dangerous, but it is dangerous for BB if users develop this attitude towards messengers in general, and then make no difference with BBM in particular, as one of BBM's compelling arguments always was and is "safety" or "information security".
    02-27-14 04:55 AM
  8. gnirkatto's Avatar
    One more thing.
    Why did I start this thread in the first place?
    Over the last few days and weeks, I tried to convert as many people to BBM as possible. A tough job, as many of you will understand.
    It's mainly the partly clumsy handling and the unclear & confusing invitation/acceptance process that is BBM inherent, that made these people hesitate.

    So a lot of personal effort was spent by myself in order to convince my friends, and finally most of them agreed, with only a few exceptions, who refused, mainly because they found "...BBM handling to suck big time....".
    My main argument was always that BB invented this type of service, and that data will be much safer than on any other platform, encryption, no data misuse, etc. etc. blablabla. Some of my friends already started calling me Mr. BBM Sales Rep.

    And then this this "review" gets published. My friends who I converted keep on sending me this on a regular basis. Some being sarcastic, some just wanting to know the truth.

    So this is what I would like to get as well. Solid information on whether or not these claims are correct, to help me to preserve my friends as BBM users. Or, to leave for something else, being frustrated by the absence of valid and useful information.
    Taigatrommel and anon2100101 like this.
    02-27-14 05:07 AM
  9. SirJes's Avatar
    It could not be clarified if bbm uses end to end encryption?

    Really? This one line makes me not take this seriously

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR and sk8er_tor like this.
    02-27-14 05:51 AM
  10. Rjinswand's Avatar
    Yeah, it doesn't need to be clarified. BBM doesn't offer this level of security unlike some other IM apps.
    E2EE is a selling point for eBBMs BBM Protected. I think it's the wrong strategy to offer this only to enterprises. Especially since other consumer apps offer it. BlackBerry certainly can't brag about having the 'most secure' messenger anymore.
    02-27-14 05:58 AM
  11. georg4BB's Avatar
    "Stiftung Warentest" is not a random device test magazine. It's THE test-institution and the results are in the public perception infallible.
    Today the media is full with stories about Whatsapp user switching to Threema because of the Facebook deal. To make it clear, in Germany the privacy issue is strongly discussed in in the media right now, and a lot of people do care.
    It's a big slap in the face of german BBM fans, who try to promote this platform. Consumer who don't care about privacy will stay with Whatsapp, and the others will go to Threema, not BBM for sure.
    When I try to promote BBM now I will earn a big laugh...
    02-27-14 06:05 AM
  12. gnirkatto's Avatar
    "Stiftung Warentest" is not a random device test magazine. It's THE test-institution and the results are in the public perception infallible.
    Today the media is full with stories about Whatsapp user switching to Threema because of the Facebook deal. To make it clear, in Germany the privacy issue is strongly discussed in in the media right now, and a lot of people do care.
    It's a big slap in the face of german BBM fans, who try to promote this platform. Consumer who don't care about privacy will stay with Whatsapp, and the others will go to Threema, not BBM for sure.
    When I try to promote BBM now I will earn a big laugh...
    That's exactly why I started this, thanks.

    Posted via CB10
    02-27-14 06:12 AM
  13. gnirkatto's Avatar
    It could not be clarified if bbm uses end to end encryption?

    Really? This one line makes me not take this seriously

    Posted via CB10
    Well, not taking it seriously because us BlackBerry diehards know better won't help in this case.

    Posted via CB10
    Q10Bold likes this.
    02-27-14 06:14 AM
  14. julianrt's Avatar
    i saw this as well... now i get some "problems" with my converted friends as well... same as gnirkatto
    its like already mentioned, everyone knows and believes in "stiftung warentest" here...
    Last edited by julianrt; 02-27-14 at 07:17 AM.
    02-27-14 06:17 AM
  15. Taigatrommel's Avatar
    It indeed is a big slap in the face for every single german speaking BlackBerry user. Ever since BBM finally went x-plattform last year, I tried hard and failed to convert people over to use BBM.
    Until last week, when Facebook bought Whatsapp, nobody really cared about switching to a different IM system, because Whatsapp just works and basicly everybody uses it. People started asking about alternatives suddenly and also got suddenly interested in BBM.

    Today I started getting texted by others who said they are glad they didn't listen to me when I suggested BBM. They've choosen Threema, which is seeing heavy storms of new users in the german speaking countries. Stiftung Warentest praised Threema and BBM by BlackBerry, which around here only has security left as their last "pro" point, got the worst rating available.
    It should hit all over the media over the next two days, BBM around here is basicly done for.



    And again for all foreign users: Stiftung Warentest is not just some BGR or Engadget blog around here. It is THE absolutely institution when it comes to independend reviews and tests for all kind of things. It is what all media quotes and reports, it is what virtually all citizens here trust in. I don't want to say Stiftung Warentest is always right, but the damage is there, it is large and it can't be ignored.
    Double-typed and posted with a BlackBerry Q10.
    02-27-14 06:21 AM
  16. georg4BB's Avatar
    ... and it begins. One of my contacts has deleted BBM immediately
    02-27-14 06:28 AM
  17. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    "Stiftung Warentest" is not a random device test magazine. It's THE test-institution and the results are in the public perception infallible.
    Today the media is full with stories about Whatsapp user switching to Threema because of the Facebook deal. To make it clear, in Germany the privacy issue is strongly discussed in in the media right now, and a lot of people do care.
    It's a big slap in the face of german BBM fans, who try to promote this platform. Consumer who don't care about privacy will stay with Whatsapp, and the others will go to Threema, not BBM for sure.
    When I try to promote BBM now I will earn a big laugh...
    Good perspective. I wouldn't have looked at this way.
    02-27-14 06:31 AM
  18. SirJes's Avatar
    So everyone is agreeing bbm is not secure because this company says they couldn't confirm some things about it?


    Posted via CB10
    02-27-14 06:40 AM
  19. julianrt's Avatar
    got first message this moment ... "heyyy look at this test, you said its secure....."
    02-27-14 06:44 AM
  20. Rjinswand's Avatar
    @SirJes: No. It's because it has been known for long that all BBM clients use the same key, except those on BES where the admin can choose an own one.
    Since other IM began using end-to-end encryption, they offer a higher level of security. BlackBerry reacted to this by announcing BBM Protected, which will offer end-to-end encryption as well.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    02-27-14 06:44 AM
  21. Bostil1987's Avatar
    Oh no ... I'm a bit shocked too. I don't know, but i thought, that BBM is defintely here on a safe side. :-(
    02-27-14 06:48 AM
  22. Q10Bold's Avatar
    Stiftung Warentest is a well known German testing and rating agency for all kinds of goods, like cars, toasters, cameras, food, phones, software/apps etc. Just a few hours ago, they published a review on a couple of Whatsapp Alternatives. One of them was BBM. It received the worst rating available, "very critical", the same as Whatsapp! I will try to translate and highlight their key arguments:

    • it could not be clarified if BBM usese end-to.end encryption.
    • the iOS-version transfers user data partly unencrypted.
    • the iOS version forwards first and last names to others.
    • the iOS version potentially transfers message content without encryption.
    • the iOS version transfers the email id of the user in encrypted format.
    • the Android version transfers user data in encrypted format
    • the Android version transfers user name, password, first and last name, date of birth, home country, security question & answer
    • both versions transfer address book entries, but only with the user agreeing explicitely.
    • one can also use BBM if the user does not allow the address book data to be read.
    • the Ts&Cs the user has to agree to contain a couple of problematic clauses.
    • collected data can be combined with data from other sources
    • the company (BBRY) can easily create personal profiles and tailor advertising campaigns accordingly
    • BBRY leaves it open, which information will be shared with who.
    • the app is not open source, therefore it couldn't be clarified which other data is being transferred

    Well. 1st of all don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger. I don't believe everything that they said, but can't prove all of it to be wrong. All I know is that giving BBM the same disastrous rating as Whatsapp is just plain BS & outright ridiculous.
    The problem is, as always, that 99.9% of all users who read this will not dig into the details and just put BBM into a box with all the almost criminal organizations that steal, misuse or sell data.

    By the way, the other messengers that were tested got the following ratings: Threema (not critical), Telegram (critical), Line (very critical), Whatsapp (very critical).
    Thanks for sharing.
    I know Stiftung Warentest, can you post the source?
    sidhuk likes this.
    02-27-14 06:49 AM
  23. julianrt's Avatar
    Thanks for sharing.
    I know Stiftung Warentest, can you post the source?
    WhatsApp und Alternativen - Datenschutz im Test - Schnelltest - Stiftung Warentest

    Edit: first ios contact deleted bbm...
    Last edited by julianrt; 02-27-14 at 07:29 AM.
    Q10Bold likes this.
    02-27-14 06:51 AM
  24. Q10Bold's Avatar
    I dont know what to say...
    02-27-14 07:10 AM
  25. phsieben's Avatar
    OMG, this is an absolute disaster for BBM in Germany. (I should know, I am German) EVERY kind of media will talk about it because it is THE "Stiftung Warentest", founded to be independent from advertising and the market. Whole companies can suffer after one of their verdicts, I've seen it.

    Although their infallibility has been questioned in the past, their track record in winning lawsuits is exceptional. Nobody could prove that they are not impartial. And on top of that, Germany has never been a BBRY-country. I think, Threema and Telegram will be the winners here with WhatsApp as #1. It's a pity though but in order to gain anything in Germany BB really has to offer sth great.
    Q10Bold, anon2100101 and julianrt like this.
    02-27-14 07:19 AM
107 123 ...

Similar Threads

  1. BBM in q10 Unable to communicate with user on Android BBM
    By sailoreng in forum General BBM Chat
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-27-14, 08:48 AM
  2. Screen won't rotate while in BBM
    By Mellfee in forum BlackBerry 10 OS
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-26-14, 08:28 PM
  3. Average Selling Prices by Mobile Platform
    By cbvinh in forum General BlackBerry News, Discussion & Rumors
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-26-14, 06:24 PM
  4. The CB10 app and the way posts by ignored users are "spoiled"
    By RyanGermann in forum Site and App Feedback & Help
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-26-14, 04:58 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD