01-16-14 01:02 AM
176 ... 5678
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  1. ital1's Avatar
    I just did two back to back tests with the same iPhone 5s user.

    Scenario 1: The app was minimized to the multi tasking bar and the phone was left idle for a half hour; I sent a BBM, the user received the preview notification and I received the D instantly even before the user opened the app.

    Scenario 2: I told the user to force close the app. I then sent a BBM; the user received a preview notification but my check mark did not change to a D. Once the user opened the app about 10 to 15 seconds later, the check mark changed to a D.

    From speaking to an iOS expert on the team, scenario 1 should cause the app to be suspended, thus he believes that there could be a background service enabled to reply to the BBM server. If that is the case, it appears that by force closing the app, the service is disabled as well. He did agree that only BlackBerry can confirm how the solution was architected for iOS.
    01-15-14 10:32 AM
  2. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I just did two back to back tests with the same iPhone 5s user.

    Scenario 1: The app was minimized to the multi tasking bar and the phone was left idle for a half hour; I sent a BBM, the user received the preview notification and I received the D instantly even before the user opened the app.

    Scenario 2: I told the user to force close the app. I then sent a BBM; the user received a preview notification but my check mark did not change to a D. Once the user opened the app about 10 to 15 seconds later, the check mark changed to a D.

    From speaking to an iOS expert on the team, scenario 1 should cause the app to be suspended, thus he believes that there could be a background service enabled to reply to the BBM server. If that is the case, it appears that by force closing the app, the service is disabled as well. He did agree that only BlackBerry can confirm how the solution was architected for iOS.
    Right, thanks. So scenario one is what I've been doing since I never force close and always leave it on the tray and why as I said the D gets sent regardless of whether the app is in the foreground or in the background and regardless of how long it's been there, as in overnight. Any ideas as to why the D doesn't get sent at odd times? Like I experienced yesterday morning but not this morning nor all day. That missed D yesterday morning is the server or communication error that is not pinned down.
    01-15-14 10:41 AM
  3. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Great research going on here.

    But... BlackBerry where are you? Why in the bl00dy h311 did your developers not do this research before releasing BBM cross platform?!!

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 10:49 AM
  4. ital1's Avatar
    He also did say that under certain circumstances, such as need for system memory, iOS will suspend apps that are minimized to allocate memory elsewhere; the example he gave is playing a game that is memory hungry. So, there could be cases where it is the OS that could be affecting the delivery of the message back to the server, or it could also be network/server issues on the BBM side, and at this point we would be speculating. It would be great if someone here at CB could reach out and see if BlackBerry can provide some details. I know at Android Central they did a write up and suggested to Android users not to disable the BBM connected icon:BBM has an annoying persistent notification — but you might not want to turn it off | Android Central. Perhaps CB/iMore can do the same for iPhone users?
    01-15-14 10:53 AM
  5. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Great research going on here.

    But... BlackBerry where are you? Why in the bl00dy h311 did your developers not do this research before releasing BBM cross platform?!!

    Posted via CB10
    You can't always account for everything.

    That's why there are always updates!!!! :-D


    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    01-15-14 10:56 AM
  6. qbnkelt's Avatar
    He also did say that under certain circumstances, such as need for system memory, iOS will suspend apps that are minimized to allocate memory elsewhere; the example he gave is playing a game that is memory hungry. So, there could be cases where it is the OS that could be affecting the delivery of the message back to the server, or it could also be network/server issues on the BBM side, and at this point we would be speculating. It would be great if someone here at CB could reach out and see if BlackBerry can provide some details. I know at Android Central they did a write up and suggested to Android users not to disable the BBM connected icon:BBM has an annoying persistent notification — but you might not want to turn it off | Android Central. Perhaps CB/iMore can do the same for iPhone users?
    The idea of feedback has already been floated.

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    01-15-14 10:57 AM
  7. bobshine's Avatar
    OK test complete and got some interesting results:

    IPHONE 5 user: Uses BBM regularly with me. Also heavy Facebook user. I sent her a BBM, she saw it, got the R, told her not to touch BBM.

    I sent her one about half an hour later: I got the D.

    I sent her another one about an hour after that. No D immediately but got the D later (maybe 5 mins). I asked her what she was doing. She confirmed she didn't open the app but was on the phone.

    IPhone 5S user: she rarely use BBM.

    I sent her a BBM, she opened, got a D.

    Told her not to touch her BBM, sent her again a BBM half an hour later, no D.

    Another half an hour later, I sent another message, no D.

    Conclusion, the idea that iOS prioritise certain apps and shuts down some base on habits sound plausible. Also, seems like iOS will prioritise the core apps (phone) and once they are not use anymore, they might reallocate the memory to an app such as BBM. Kind of a smart multitasking. But too smart is like not smart since now, certain apps such as BBM has unpredictable behaviours.

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 11:25 AM
  8. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    You can't always account for everything.

    That's why there are always updates!!!! :-D


    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    I understand your point. But, notifications are integral to BBM and really the feature that sets it apart. Without that, one might as well just use SMS.

    And I don't believe at the developer level this should be hard to figure out. It should have been done prior to release. There is really no excuse for poor reliability at this point.

    BBM could have been the panacea some predicted would bring folks back to BlackBerry. Instead it may very well do the opposite if they can't get it working reliably ASAP.

    Posted with Z10 via CB10
    01-15-14 11:27 AM
  9. bobshine's Avatar
    I understand your point. But, notifications are integral to BBM and really the feature that sets it apart. Without that, one might as well just use SMS.

    And I don't believe at the developer level this should be hard to figure out. It should have been done prior to release. There is really no excuse for poor reliability at this point.

    BBM could have been the panacea some predicted would bring folks back to BlackBerry. Instead it may very well do the opposite if they can't get it working reliably ASAP.

    Posted with Z10 via CB10
    My understanding is that it's an iOS limitation. If you look at my previous posts, seems like iOS doesn't allow any app to decide by itself (such as android) to be always on. It will instead keep some applications on based active certain factures, maybe time of last activity and user habits.

    Posted via CB10
    ital1 likes this.
    01-15-14 11:32 AM
  10. ital1's Avatar
    My understanding is that it's an iOS limitation. If you look at my previous posts, seems like iOS doesn't allow any app to decide by itself (such as android) to be always on. It will instead keep some applications on based active certain factures, maybe time of last activity and user habits.

    Posted via CB10
    You are correct iOS does not allow apps to run constantly in the background. As explained to me, only Facebook for iOS has that honour.

    Posted via my Z10
    01-15-14 11:56 AM
  11. Thesmartmale's Avatar
    OK test complete and got some interesting results:

    IPHONE 5 user: Uses BBM regularly with me. Also heavy Facebook user. I sent her a BBM, she saw it, got the R, told her not to touch BBM.

    I sent her one about half an hour later: I got the D.

    I sent her another one about an hour after that. No D immediately but got the D later (maybe 5 mins). I asked her what she was doing. She confirmed she didn't open the app but was on the phone.

    IPhone 5S user: she rarely use BBM.

    I sent her a BBM, she opened, got a D.

    Told her not to touch her BBM, sent her again a BBM half an hour later, no D.

    Another half an hour later, I sent another message, no D.

    Conclusion, the idea that iOS prioritise certain apps and shuts down some base on habits sound plausible. Also, seems like iOS will prioritise the core apps (phone) and once they are not use anymore, they might reallocate the memory to an app such as BBM. Kind of a smart multitasking. But too smart is like not smart since now, certain apps such as BBM has unpredictable behaviours.

    Posted via CB10
    If that is true then why is the 4S now giving me contant Ds even though the app is in the background and hasn't been opened, my sister doesn't use BBM that much, yesterday it wasn't giving me a D, also qbnkelt said before that she didn't get a D on one of the tests she did even though she got a D the day before and the Day after so if if IOS really learns what the user uses then I think we should have seen different results BUT I could be wrong of course.

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 11:59 AM
  12. qbnkelt's Avatar
    And yet, I'm not finding that, guys.

    My BBM remains in the background from all the test messages I've sent I've had a D return, except one morning.

    I am looking at a D being received even after idle overnight and also after going to other apps and then returning.

    So it can't be accurately stated that BBM is not allowed to run in the background. What I found is that it absolutely does run in the background, sending back a D.

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    01-15-14 12:02 PM
  13. bobshine's Avatar
    This thing is getting very confusing.

    There are way too many factors into this. I think it's going to be difficult to isolate. But this is what's 100% sure:

    1-force close the app... no D, but iPhone still receive the push notifications

    2-There is not way to 100% prevent iOS to suspend BBM, cause sometime we don't get a D back.

    The rest has to be tested in controlled environment

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 12:24 PM
  14. qbnkelt's Avatar
    This thing is getting very confusing.

    There are way too many factors into this. I think it's going to be difficult to isolate. But this is what's 100% sure:

    1-force close the app... no D, but iPhone still receive the push notifications

    2-There is not way to 100% prevent iOS to suspend BBM, cause sometime we don't get a D back.

    The rest has to be tested in controlled environment

    Posted via CB10
    From your mouth to God's ears.....
    01-15-14 12:38 PM
  15. bobshine's Avatar
    Here is some interesting reading:
    https://developer.apple.com/library/...07072-CH4-SW20

    Seems like they make a differance between long running background, and "short running background". Long running background needs a special permission from Apple.

    this part looks very interesting

    Table 3-1 App states
    State
    Description

    Not running
    The app has not been launched or was running but was terminated by the system.

    Inactive
    The app is running in the foreground but is currently not receiving events. (It may be executing other code though.) An app usually stays in this state only briefly as it transitions to a different state.

    Active
    The app is running in the foreground and is receiving events. This is the normal mode for foreground apps.

    Background
    The app is in the background and executing code. Most apps enter this state briefly on their way to being suspended. However, an app that requests extra execution time may remain in this state for a period of time. In addition, an app being launched directly into the background enters this state instead of the inactive state. For information about how to execute code while in the background, see “Background Execution and Multitasking.”

    Suspended
    The app is in the background but is not executing code. The system moves apps to this state automatically and does not notify them before doing so. While suspended, an app remains in memory but does not execute any code.
    When a low-memory condition occurs, the system may purge suspended apps without notice to make more space for the foreground app.



    And this part

    Implementing Long-Running Background Tasks
    For tasks that require more execution time to implement, you must request specific permissions to run them in the background without their being suspended. In iOS, only specific app types are allowed to run in the background:

    Apps that play audible content to the user while in the background, such as a music player app
    Apps that record audio content while in the background.
    Apps that keep users informed of their location at all times, such as a navigation app
    Apps that support Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP)
    Apps that need to download and process new content regularly
    Apps that receive regular updates from external accessories
    Apps that implement these services must declare the services they support and use system frameworks to implement the relevant aspects of those services. Declaring the services lets the system know which services you use, but in some cases it is the system frameworks that actually prevent your application from being suspended.
    crackberry_geek and ital1 like this.
    01-15-14 12:40 PM
  16. curvezzz's Avatar
    I'm getting a red x from my bb to my sisters bb. Started today.

    ? Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925 on AT&T
    01-15-14 01:29 PM
  17. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I'm getting a red x from my bb to my sisters bb. Started today.

    ? Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925 on AT&T
    You mean a red X or a red clock? That's your device not having a connection, either from no data or no connection to the server.
    01-15-14 02:19 PM
  18. curvezzz's Avatar
    You mean a red X or a red clock? That's your device not having a connection, either from no data or no connection to the server.
    Red X I have the bb symbol and all bars.

    ? Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925 on AT&T
    01-15-14 02:25 PM
  19. curvezzz's Avatar
    Is BBM Down?-img_20140115_142548.png

    ? Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925 on AT&T
    01-15-14 02:26 PM
  20. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    ? Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925 on AT&T
    Oh wow that's a different red X that I got yesterday. What happens when you PING?
    01-15-14 02:31 PM
  21. qbnkelt's Avatar
    OK I just tested Q10 to 9930 and it went through fine, no problem.

    Can you test BBM with someone else?
    01-15-14 02:36 PM
  22. Thesmartmale's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    ? Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925 on AT&T
    The person you are trying to reach doesn't have BIS activated ( if they own a BBOS).

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 03:14 PM
  23. Atlergambit's Avatar
    And that just started happening today? She didn't fall behind on her cellular bill did she?

    I have seen a similar issue with my sisters 9800 where she was not able to message anyone who had a BB10 device. Would get the red X as well. She had to wait for a new release of BBM for her device, so 8.0, before it would start working again.


    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 03:19 PM
  24. bobshine's Avatar
    I'm getting a red x from my bb to my sisters bb. Started today.

    ? Z10STL100-4/10.2.1.1925 on AT&T
    Happens when the message wasn't delivered. I seen that, especially for iPhone. Not sure how to reproduce it.

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 03:41 PM
  25. Atlergambit's Avatar
    The red X has a few connotations actually.

    1) as Bob mentioned, it's a delivery time out, doesn't happen often but it can

    2) the PIN is no longer valid in the BlackBerry network, either the person has upgraded to a new device and the old PIN has been decommissioned OR the device is no longer in service because they were cut off for some reason

    3) the person has removed you from their BBM and blocked you from sending any further requests/messages to them

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 04:42 PM
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