01-16-14 01:02 AM
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  1. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Another overnight test.

    iPhone locked and asleep and on my nightstand.

    Sent one BBM message this morning at 3:01 a.m. I instantly get the D. Roll over and go back to sleep.

    Wake up again at 4:41 a.m. and phone is locked and asleep. Sent another message and I instantly get the D. I pick up the iPhone, unlock it and open BBM. Check my BBM chats for the last BBM message received from my contacts. Last BBM received prior to my test BBM was at 9:53 p.m. last night.

    So at this point I'm going to say that the iPhone 5s sent out a D to the sending BBM device whether it's locked and asleep, regardless of the fact that BBM has not been touched on the device for several hours. There are instances where the D is not sent back to the originating device and I have not as of yet identified what the reason is, but it is not by design but either by server communication failure or by signal failure as originally stated. As noted by the OP, there were two devices that did not send back the D, an iPhone and a Z10, adding to the possibility of server or communication issues.

    If not, can someone help me trouble shoot why mine will not send?

    I've tried 4g and wifi and only get a check. I've tried to an iPhone and a Z10.

    Using z10 on Verizon running 10.2 from rogers.

    Thank you

    Posted via CB10


    As noted by users of prior iPhones and devices on iOS6, those devices do not show the same behaviour when sending the D back to the originating device. Since I haven't got an iPhone 5 (I sold mine to Best Buy when I got my iPhone 5s) I can't speak to it. Same for the iPhone 4S I used to have, which I gave to a friend when her phone went for an unexpected swim, so I can't speak to that one either. And I never owned an iPhone 4.

    The iPhone was not running BBM in the foreground, was locked, was asleep for several hours, did not receive other BBMs for several hours, and still sent the D to the Q10. Therefore BBM on the iPhone 5s is not suspended after 15 minutes of inactivity, given the fact that the iPhone 5s was locked, asleep, had not received BBM messages for over five hours (9:53 p.m. to 3:01 p.m.) and still 1) received the BBMs I sent by showing the number of new messages on the BBM icon and 2) sent the D back to the Q10.
    Last edited by qbnkelt; 01-15-14 at 04:59 AM. Reason: typo, "send" to "sent"
    Thesmartmale and stlabrat like this.
    01-15-14 04:29 AM
  2. Thesmartmale's Avatar
    Another overnight test.

    iPhone locked and asleep and on my nightstand.

    Sent one BBM message this morning at 3:01 a.m. I instantly get the D. Roll over and go back to sleep.

    Wake up again at 4:41 a.m. and phone is locked and asleep. Sent another message and I instantly get the D. I pick up the iPhone, unlock it and open BBM. Check my BBM chats for the last BBM message received from my contacts. Last BBM received prior to my test BBM was at 9:53 p.m. last night.

    So at this point I'm going to say that the iPhone 5s sends out a D to the sending BBM device whether it's locked and asleep, regardless of the fact that BBM has not been touched on the device for several hours. There are instances where the D is not sent back to the originating device and I have not as of yet identified what the reason is, but it is not by design but either by server communication failure or by signal failure as originally stated. As noted by the OP, there were two devices that did not send back the D, an iPhone and a Z10, adding to the possibility of server or communication issues.





    As noted by users of prior iPhones and devices on iOS6, those devices do not show the same behaviour when sending the D back to the originating device. Since I haven't got an iPhone 5 (I sold mine to Best Buy when I got my iPhone 5s) I can't speak to it. Same for the iPhone 4S I used to have, which I gave to a friend when her phone went for an unexpected swim, so I can't speak to that one either. And I never owned an iPhone 4.

    The iPhone was not running BBM in the foreground, was locked, was asleep for several hours, did not receive other BBMs for several hours, and still sent the D to the Q10. Therefore BBM on the iPhone 5s is not suspended after 15 minutes of inactivity, given the fact that the iPhone 5s was locked, asleep, had not received BBM messages for over five hours (9:53 p.m. to 3:01 p.m.) and still 1) received the BBMs I sent by showing the number of new messages on the BBM icon and 2) sent the D back to the Q10.
    Thank you a lot for these details, and I have to agree on what you said I always get a D from my friend with an iPhone5 so I can say that iPhone 5S and iPhone 5 get instant D and 4S and older devices don't, even if they run IOS7.

    So anyone with iPhone 5/5S gets a D, and anyone with an iPhone 4S or lower don't get a D.

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 04:56 AM
  3. Thesmartmale's Avatar
    This should go on Crackberrys front page, unless someone have prove that this is not how BBM on IOS works.

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 04:58 AM
  4. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Thank you a lot for these details, and I have to agree on what you said I always get a D from my friend with an iPhone5 so I can say that iPhone 5S and iPhone 5 get instant D and 4S and older devices don't, even if they run IOS7.

    So anyone with iPhone 5/5S gets a D, and anyone with an iPhone 4S or lower don't get a D.

    Posted via CB10
    There should be a "formal" test of this. Specifically to determine why there are errors, whether they are errors in server communication or signal errors that do not allow even the iPhone 5s to send the D back to the originating device in specific circumstances. Yesterday morning I did not get the D on my Q10 and yet this morning I did receive the D. So there is *something* that interferes with app function. But this I can say, my iPhone 5s sent a D back to my Q10 after being locked and asleep, with no activity for over five hours, with the app not running in the foreground, even after being idle and not receving other BBMs.
    01-15-14 05:15 AM
  5. bobshine's Avatar
    I've just thought of something else to try out, we've been testing BB to iPhone and seeing the different behaviours there. Does anyone know if there is a difference in behaviour between iPhone to iPhone? BB to Android? iPhone to Android?

    Might be something to look at as well if possible.
    I had tested BlackBerry to android and as long as BBM is running in the background process (with the little logo on the top of the screen), we get the D. But if the user kills the background process manually, no notification on android nor any D for the sender

    Posted via CB10
    stlabrat likes this.
    01-15-14 05:43 AM
  6. bobshine's Avatar
    I don't wanna turn this into Android thread but, all I can tell you is make sure that the person has their BBM connected icon turned on!! If this doesn't work re-install the app.

    Posted via CB10
    Actually they don't have to reinstall the app. Those that removed the BBM connect icon, did so by going to settings. By doing so will allow Android will kill BBM background process when memory is running low.

    So never remove the icon. Or if it's gone, go in setting, notifications and switch the connect icon to ON

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 05:48 AM
  7. bobshine's Avatar
    There should be a "formal" test of this. Specifically to determine why there are errors, whether they are errors in server communication or signal errors that do not allow even the iPhone 5s to send the D back to the originating device in specific circumstances. Yesterday morning I did not get the D on my Q10 and yet this morning I did receive the D. So there is *something* that interferes with app function. But this I can say, my iPhone 5s sent a D back to my Q10 after being locked and asleep, with no activity for over five hours, with the app not running in the foreground, even after being idle and not receving other BBMs.
    I just read through this entire thread and I agree that maybe Kevin could do a formal test with his iPhone.

    I BBM one of my friend often from my Z10 to my friends iPhone 5S and I never get any D, unless she just answered to one of my messages. She doesn't kill the app in the background.

    Now... I am wondering something... did someone did this test:

    BBM iPhone 5S,open message, let it sit for an hour, BBM iPhone 5S

    BBM iPhone 5S open message, put it in airplane mode, after one hour, switch it back on and BBM iPhone 5S

    BB iPhone 5S, open message, switch the 5S off, wait an hour, switch it on and BBM 5S again

    I am thinking maybe it has to do with how the iPhone connects to its push services

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 05:58 AM
  8. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I just read through this entire thread and I agree that maybe Kevin could do a formal test with his iPhone.

    I BBM one of my friend often from my Z10 to my friends iPhone 5S and I never get any D, unless she just answered to one of my messages. She doesn't kill the app in the background.

    Now... I am wondering something... did someone did this test:

    BBM iPhone 5S,open message, let it sit for an hour, BBM iPhone 5S

    BBM iPhone 5S open message, put it in airplane mode, after one hour, switch it back on and BBM iPhone 5S

    BB iPhone 5S, open message, switch the 5S off, wait an hour, switch it on and BBM 5S again

    I am thinking maybe it has to do with how the iPhone connects to its push services

    Posted via CB10
    Interesting thought on the airplane mode bit. Would be interesting to run that. I could, when a have a couple of minutes or chunk of time to run together.

    And yes, there were times yesterday when I didn't get the D. Which is what makes this so strange. When the question first came up and I ran my first messages, I always got the D. Yesterday morning I didn't at home, but I did in DC. This morning I got the D instantly, even if the app wasn't running in the foreground and had been idle for literally hours. I also checked with my contacts and they mentioned they get the D the vast majority of the time.

    At this point I'm settled myself on my initial premise, that there are server/communications errors that do not allow for the D to come through when it normally otherwise had. As I experienced Monday morning, Tuesday morning after leaving the device alone all night, and this morning. Different results for the same situation. To me that points to either a bug in how it's coded or a communication failure.

    Anyhoo guys.....carry on. Gotta run.
    01-15-14 06:08 AM
  9. bobshine's Avatar
    Interesting thought on the airplane mode bit. Would be interesting to run that. I could, when a have a couple of minutes or chunk of time to run together.

    And yes, there were times yesterday when I didn't get the D. Which is what makes this so strange. When the question first came up and I ran my first messages, I always got the D. Yesterday morning I didn't at home, but I did in DC. This morning I got the D instantly, even if the app wasn't running in the foreground and had been idle for literally hours. I also checked with my contacts and they mentioned they get the D the vast majority of the time.

    At this point I'm settled myself on my initial premise, that there are server/communications errors that do not allow for the D to come through when it normally otherwise had. As I experienced Monday morning, Tuesday morning after leaving the device alone all night, and this morning. Different results for the same situation. To me that points to either a bug in how it's coded or a communication failure.

    Anyhoo guys.....carry on. Gotta run.
    I just thought of something, it could be a simple memory management thing. As I recall, iPhone 5S has more RAM. IOS 7 probably kills older processes not based on how long they had been inactive, but as the OS is starting to run low on RAM. So since older I phones has less RAM, we tend to have less reliable D.

    The fact that we see the app "suspended" just means that the app is cached, but doesn't mean that it's "active".

    My friends with iPhone 5S uses their phone a lot, so maybe the BBM process get killed quickly, thus less reliable D. Now someone with an iPhone can easily test that.

    Send BBM to iPhone, open the message, let the iPhone sit for an hour inactive (very important), then BBM again

    Send BBM to iPhone, open message, open lots of apps, then send BBM to iphone.

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 06:30 AM
  10. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Yah Bob but that's the thing.

    I got the D even if my phone was idle with the app not in the foreground for five hours.

    Sorry walking from Metro

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    01-15-14 06:39 AM
  11. qbnkelt's Avatar
    If it's suspended then receipt of the message activates it? So for practical purposes there is no difference between a "suspended" app that wakes and sends a D upon message receipt and an "active" app that sends a D upon message receipt.

    For practical purposes it's six of one, hald dozen of the ither.

    Oh and remember I'm using a 5s.

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    01-15-14 06:44 AM
  12. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Sorry for typos.

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    01-15-14 06:44 AM
  13. ital1's Avatar
    To truly test the suspension scenario minimize the app to the multitasking bar and let it sit idle for 15 minutes or more. This is the final test that I am going to execute today with a colleague to confirm whether the app needs to be active to change the check mark to a D. The important thing though is that if the user set up push notifications for BBM, he/she will still be prompted and will likely open the app. From what I understand, BBM for Android can be set to have priority and thus run constantly. I completely agree with reaching out to BlackBerry, confirming these results and posting a write up for iOS and BlackBerry users to avoid any confusion.

    Posted via my Z10
    01-15-14 06:55 AM
  14. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    Don't know about BBM being down but something's off as I'm told I need to be a contact when trying to BBM voice call friends and family (BlackBerry to BlackBerry) and I'm getting a lot of the grey ticks when messaging.
    01-15-14 07:03 AM
  15. bobshine's Avatar
    Yah Bob but that's the thing.

    I got the D even if my phone was idle with the app not in the foreground for five hours.

    Sorry walking from Metro

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    I don't think being idle makes a difference. I think that even if the phone is idle for 3 days, BBM will still return a D. But as soon as you start running other apps after using BBM, then the iPhone will kill older apps and BBM get kills eventually. Now since older iPhone has less memory, BBM get killed faster.

    My belief is that the "suspended" apps simply just mean that the app is suspended, but not necessary active

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 07:06 AM
  16. qbnkelt's Avatar
    To truly test the suspension scenario minimize the app to the multitasking bar and let it sit idle for 15 minutes or more. This is the final test that I am going to execute today with a colleague to confirm whether the app needs to be active to change the check mark to a D. The important thing though is that if the user set up push notifications for BBM, he/she will still be prompted and will likely open the app. From what I understand, BBM for Android can be set to have priority and thus run constantly. I completely agree with reaching out to BlackBerry, confirming these results and posting a write up for iOS and BlackBerry users to avoid any confusion.

    Posted via my Z10
    Yah, I ran that completely idle and minimised, meaning in the tray, not in the foreground.


    I've got to say, this has been one of the most FUN threads I've been on in quite a while.



    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    Thesmartmale likes this.
    01-15-14 07:11 AM
  17. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I don't think being idle makes a difference. I think that even if the phone is idle for 3 days, BBM will still return a D. But as soon as you start running other apps after using BBM, then the iPhone will kill older apps and BBM get kills eventually. Now since older iPhone has less memory, BBM get killed faster.

    My belief is that the "suspended" apps simply just mean that the app is suspended, but not necessary active

    Posted via CB10
    I think you've got it. I haven't done this. THIS is probably the missing point. THANK YOU. I will try this today.

    BBM is my lifeline on all my devices so it's generally the last thing I use when I go to bed and sending my last "good night" messages to family and contacts. So naturally it's the last thing I use before I go to sleep. And generally I'm on it constantly, which is why when I stopped using BlackBerry devices as my primary devices I always kept a BlackBerry, simply for BBM and banking.

    Great point. Many thanks!!!!
    01-15-14 07:24 AM
  18. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Ok using phone after using BBM. Just went into FB after leaving BBM.

    Will now get out of this app and go to Pinterest. Then do the BBM test again.

    Should be fun to see what happens.


    Sent from my AWESOME gold 64G iPhone 5s via Tapatalk
    01-15-14 07:34 AM
  19. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Damn still got a D Bob!!!

    GRRRRRR!!!! WHY can't this error be pinned down?!?!?

    BBM was not in the foreground, obviously, and I still got the D.

    The *only* thing I haven't done is keep BBM force closed, and that I won't do simply because it's my lifeline. As I said when Ital1 mentioned that, THAT is a different detail than keeping it not in the foreground and I would expect that to not return a D in the instance he(she?) mentioned. But what I'm trying to figure out is why sometimes there is a D when it's in the background and in some instances there is no D returned, that's the error that is driving me to tears.

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    01-15-14 07:37 AM
  20. ital1's Avatar
    I think we need to fully understand iOS background task management as well. Given that the results seem consistent when the app is forced closed, we need to find out how iOS will do the same to an app on its own and under what circumstances.

    Posted via my Z10
    01-15-14 07:47 AM
  21. bobshine's Avatar
    Damn still got a D Bob!!!

    GRRRRRR!!!! WHY can't this error be pinned down?!?!?

    BBM was not in the foreground, obviously, and I still got the D.

    The *only* thing I haven't done is keep BBM force closed, and that I won't do simply because it's my lifeline. As I said when Ital1 mentioned that, THAT is a different detail than keeping it not in the foreground and I would expect that to not return a D in the instance he(she?) mentioned. But what I'm trying to figure out is why sometimes there is a D when it's in the background and in some instances there is no D returned, that's the error that is driving me to tears.

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    You use a 5S? Try maybe 10 or 15 apps after using BBM. Make sure no one BBM while you do this.

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 07:48 AM
  22. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    Damn still got a D Bob!!!

    GRRRRRR!!!! WHY can't this error be pinned down?!?!?

    BBM was not in the foreground, obviously, and I still got the D.

    The *only* thing I haven't done is keep BBM force closed, and that I won't do simply because it's my lifeline. As I said when Ital1 mentioned that, THAT is a different detail than keeping it not in the foreground and I would expect that to not return a D in the instance he(she?) mentioned. But what I'm trying to figure out is why sometimes there is a D when it's in the background and in some instances there is no D returned, that's the error that is driving me to tears.

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    It's not the app, if you have a data or WiFi connection you'll get a D. I believe it's a server issue.
    01-15-14 07:51 AM
  23. Atlergambit's Avatar
    So I did my tests this morning as well with the Q10 to 4S. As I mentioned yesterday, in the morning I sent the message and got a D right away, the iPhone had been plugged in over night.

    Last night I had enough juice that I didn't have to plug it in, BBM was the only app running in the background and last app I had used before setting the phone down for the night. This morning when I woke up, I sent a message from the Q10 to the 4S and only received the grey check. When I went downstairs to the iPhone, I found that I did not even have a push notification that a message had come in.

    Once I unlocked the phone and checked if BBM was actually running (sanity check) in the background, I sent another message to it from the Q10 and it immediately came thru with a D on both the previous message and itself as well as the push noticification and proper badging of the icon for 2 msgs.

    Posted via CB10
    01-15-14 07:52 AM
  24. qbnkelt's Avatar
    You use a 5S? Try maybe 10 or 15 apps after using BBM. Make sure no one BBM while you do this.

    Posted via CB10
    Ugh...OK love.

    That will take a wee bit of effort. There is one group I belong to that is fairly active through the day so I can only do this overnight as I did last night.

    I'll try again tonight, difference is I'll go into a bunch of apps first.

    Thanks for the idea!!!

    Oh and yes I'm using a 5s.

    Posted from my awesome Q10 via CB10.
    01-15-14 07:54 AM
  25. ital1's Avatar
    It's not the app, if you have a data or WiFi connection you'll get a D. I believe it's a server issue.
    If you force close the app, the check mark will only change to a D if you open the app. I tested this with an iPhone 4s and a 5s. With both colleagues to whom I was standing next to, as soon as the app was opened the check mark instantly changed. They both did receive a push notification even though the app was force closed, or suspended; it doesn't appear that there is a dependency on the notification, it appears that the state of the app is what determines the message back to the server to update to the D.

    Posted via my Z10
    01-15-14 07:57 AM
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