07-08-19 03:10 AM
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  1. Matt J's Avatar
    Maybe I'm looking at it too naively, but if BBMe could obtain a million worldwide consumer users at $6/year, that's $6 million a year for a product that BlackBerry will support anyway for the enterprise market. I don't think BBMe enterprise is going anywhere as the core market for BlackBerry is "secure communication".

    BlackBerry's revenue was only $189 million in 2018. $6 million would be a sizable portion of that (~3%). Certainly not insignificant. With a little "paranoid security and privacy marketing" they can carve out a small portion of the market. Also, this $6 million doesn't include the existing enterprise customers that use BBMe for their daily business communications.

    What do you think finance, law, military and government executives use for communications of sensitive information? WhatsApp? SMS? iMessage? I don't think so. There is a unseen market for BBMe that will always exist. I see no disadvantage for expanding this into the general population.
    anon(10218918) likes this.
    05-12-19 10:21 AM
  2. BigAl_BB9900's Avatar
    I've been using BBMe since BBMc was EOL'd. I've spent some time today with the BBMe Desktop app and it's incredible!

    I realised that I can screen share from my Windows 10 device to other BBMe contacts on their phone. This is addition to video and audio calls at the same time.

    Am I the only one that thinks this is an incredible feature that no other messaging app has? The quality of the simultaneous video/audio chat and screen share is incredible. My contacts can see and hear everything I am doing on my screen with crystal clarity.

    Wow.

    Just thought I would share.
    How to install on Windows (10 Pro in my case)

    I didn't realise until I read this thread that I could also install on Windows 10 (it already works great on my Key2).

    Here is the download link from the BlackBerry website:
    https://www.blackberry.com/us/en/pro...rview#download

    Here are the release notes and User Guides:
    https://docs.blackberry.com/en/id-co...erprise/latest

    Hope this helps
    anon(10218918) likes this.
    05-12-19 11:02 AM
  3. conite's Avatar
    Maybe I'm looking at it too naively, but if BBMe could obtain a million worldwide consumer users at $6/year, that's $6 million a year for a product that BlackBerry will support anyway for the enterprise market. I don't think BBMe enterprise is going anywhere as the core market for BlackBerry is "secure communication".

    BlackBerry's revenue was only $189 million in 2018. $6 million would be a sizable portion of that (~3%). Certainly not insignificant. With a little "paranoid security and privacy marketing" they can carve out a small portion of the market. Also, this $6 million doesn't include the existing enterprise customers that use BBMe for their daily business communications.

    What do you think finance, law, military and government executives use for communications of sensitive information? WhatsApp? SMS? iMessage? I don't think so. There is a unseen market for BBMe that will always exist. I see no disadvantage for expanding this into the general population.
    How much of that would cannibalize full $40/yr subscriptions?

    What is the cost of setting up a consumer-facing support infrastructure?

    If real BBMe is selling for $40/yr, do you really believe that $35 or more of that is profit?

    Beyond the initial olive branch, have you seen any further promotion of this service?

    Total BBMe downloads remain less than 500,000 - same as it was before Emtek's announcement almost a month ago.
    05-12-19 11:18 AM
  4. Matt J's Avatar
    How much of that would cannibalize full $40/yr subscriptions?

    What is the cost of setting up a consumer-facing support infrastructure?

    If real BBMe is selling for $40/yr, do you really believe that $35 or more of that is profit?
    I don't think there were many personal $40/year subscriptions anyway. Probably most of the BBM Enterprise revenue came from, well, enterprises.

    I don't know what the costs of the infrastructure is. There was a time when BlackBerry was supporting around 200 million BBM users worldwide, and doing it quite well with incredible reliability. I suppose that "infrastructure" still exists and with the current user loads, it is nowhere near "tapped out".

    As far as profit margin is concerned.... I have no idea. I'm sure that BlackBerry crunched their numbers and found that based on the consumer adoption of BBMe, $6.98 per year yielded a profit. John Chen is not the type to do something to lose money.

    So, to your question, yes, probably $35 or more is profit from the $40/year.
    05-12-19 11:30 AM
  5. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I don't think there were many personal $40/year subscriptions anyway. Probably most of the BBM Enterprise revenue came from, well, enterprises.

    I don't know what the costs of the infrastructure is. There was a time when BlackBerry was supporting around 200 million BBM users worldwide, and doing it quite well with incredible reliability. I suppose that "infrastructure" still exists and with the current user loads, it is nowhere near "tapped out".

    As far as profit margin is concerned.... I have no idea. I'm sure that BlackBerry crunched their numbers and found that based on the consumer adoption of BBMe, $6.98 per year yielded a profit. John Chen is not the type to do something to lose money.

    So, to your question, yes, probably $35 or more is profit from the $40/year.
    $35 isn’t net profit. As far as Enterprise versus Consumer, that’s always been the problem is that BB doesn’t want to setup the consumer infrastructure for anything ever. Chen’s very clear message over last five years is that BB model is wholesale type volume aka Enterprise where the customer has their own service infrastructure for their enterprise. If the numbers to build out BBMc didn’t make sense before Emtek, I’m not sure how after Emtek got the worse end of the deal that BB would go back. It doesn’t sound business logical...
    05-12-19 01:14 PM
  6. valer466's Avatar
    What do you think finance, law, military and government executives use for communications of sensitive information? WhatsApp? SMS? iMessage? I don't think so. There is a unseen market for BBMe that will always exist.
    This consumer + sensitive information guys boat sailed to WhatsApp in 2014 ( on account of free messaging, & so called encrypted today with 90% of the consumer IM market / iMessage (on account of Apple - Apple users which is big in north america)

    The remaining DOD category, or Angela merkel type are mostly on Good technology (owned by BlackBerry Canada), and using iPhones/Samsung Notes (you have to have the camera and apps on a touch device).

    The paranoid security and privacy marketing failed big time with the Priv.

    I'd say they're doing as well as they could with the people who want to pay ( US DOD and the likes ) versus who don't want to pay and use other cheaper MDM's. (including semi sensitive folks- lawyers, corp communications of big firms etc).
    05-13-19 01:53 AM
  7. Paulelmar18's Avatar
    Sometimes the effect of arguments increases through their repetition. Sometimes. I have followed this thread and the other BBMe related threads for a long time before giving my opinion. It was/is interesting to see how Conite in particular repeats the same arguments over and over again, without providing arguments for it - as he otherwise demands from all users.

    He repeats again and again that BlackBerry had only held out the olive branch to reassure us and that nothing would have come and would come after that. However, this is not a fact, but an assumption or an opinion.

    The fact that BlackBerry Ltd. made the switch to BBMe possible is to be evaluated positively. And a fact.
    The fact that Blackberry Ltd. has already pushed a small update is to be evaluated positively. And a fact.
    That an employee of BlackBerry Ltd. (Denis) offers his support here in the forum and provides solutions, is to be evaluated positively. And a fact.

    Conite's argument that one can recognize the success or failure of the BBMe app by the unchanged rating (<500,000) in the Play Store since the announcement of Emtek is only half correct and assumes that the app hadn't sold better and was a slow seller.

    The fact that the download numbers of the app must have risen and that many users have already switched to BBMe is demonstrated by the many new groups that have emerged worldwide and are enjoying steady popularity. (I have more than 150 contacts, much more than with the old BBM.) That's positive. And a fact.

    I can't understand why the "CB officials" are badmouthing the BBMe and vehemently discouraging its use? The messenger deserves to be tried. It's miles better than the old BBM and also better and safer than many other messengers. It fits well with the security philosophy of a BlackBerry smartphone, and that's another fact.

    And only god knows how long BlackBerry Ltd. gives us the opportunity to use the BBMe and whether the company won't pull the plug at some point for financial reasons. But certainly not Conite
    05-13-19 06:26 AM
  8. anon(10218918)'s Avatar
    Sometimes the effect of arguments increases through their repetition. Sometimes. I have followed this thread and the other BBMe related threads for a long time before giving my opinion. It was/is interesting to see how Conite in particular repeats the same arguments over and over again, without providing arguments for it - as he otherwise demands from all users.

    He repeats again and again that BlackBerry had only held out the olive branch to reassure us and that nothing would have come and would come after that. However, this is not a fact, but an assumption or an opinion.

    The fact that BlackBerry Ltd. made the switch to BBMe possible is to be evaluated positively. And a fact.
    The fact that Blackberry Ltd. has already pushed a small update is to be evaluated positively. And a fact.
    That an employee of BlackBerry Ltd. (Denis) offers his support here in the forum and provides solutions, is to be evaluated positively. And a fact.

    Conite's argument that one can recognize the success or failure of the BBMe app by the unchanged rating (<500,000) in the Play Store since the announcement of Emtek is only half correct and assumes that the app hadn't sold better and was a slow seller.

    The fact that the download numbers of the app must have risen and that many users have already switched to BBMe is demonstrated by the many new groups that have emerged worldwide and are enjoying steady popularity. (I have more than 150 contacts, much more than with the old BBM.) That's positive. And a fact.

    I can't understand why the "CB officials" are badmouthing the BBMe and vehemently discouraging its use? The messenger deserves to be tried. It's miles better than the old BBM and also better and safer than many other messengers. It fits well with the security philosophy of a BlackBerry smartphone, and that's another fact.

    And only god knows how long BlackBerry Ltd. gives us the opportunity to use the BBMe and whether the company won't pull the plug at some point for financial reasons. But certainly not Conite
    Thank you!
    05-13-19 06:36 AM
  9. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Sometimes the effect of arguments increases through their repetition. Sometimes. I have followed this thread and the other BBMe related threads for a long time before giving my opinion. It was/is interesting to see how Conite in particular repeats the same arguments over and over again, without providing arguments for it - as he otherwise demands from all users.

    He repeats again and again that BlackBerry had only held out the olive branch to reassure us and that nothing would have come and would come after that. However, this is not a fact, but an assumption or an opinion.

    The fact that BlackBerry Ltd. made the switch to BBMe possible is to be evaluated positively. And a fact.
    The fact that Blackberry Ltd. has already pushed a small update is to be evaluated positively. And a fact.
    That an employee of BlackBerry Ltd. (Denis) offers his support here in the forum and provides solutions, is to be evaluated positively. And a fact.

    Conite's argument that one can recognize the success or failure of the BBMe app by the unchanged rating (<500,000) in the Play Store since the announcement of Emtek is only half correct and assumes that the app hadn't sold better and was a slow seller.

    The fact that the download numbers of the app must have risen and that many users have already switched to BBMe is demonstrated by the many new groups that have emerged worldwide and are enjoying steady popularity. (I have more than 150 contacts, much more than with the old BBM.) That's positive. And a fact.

    I can't understand why the "CB officials" are badmouthing the BBMe and vehemently discouraging its use? The messenger deserves to be tried. It's miles better than the old BBM and also better and safer than many other messengers. It fits well with the security philosophy of a BlackBerry smartphone, and that's another fact.

    And only god knows how long BlackBerry Ltd. gives us the opportunity to use the BBMe and whether the company won't pull the plug at some point for financial reasons. But certainly not Conite
    The arguments regarding financial viability are just that. If BB really believed in the consumer segment, why did BB license it off to Emtek instead of keeping it back then when it had far more users?

    If not economically viable three years ago, Emtek abandoning BBM, since it wasn’t economically viable anymore, what is going to make it economically viable now?

    Let’s discuss how BB monetizes this? How does BB move people from Facebook Messenger, Instagram and WhatsApp this go around when consumers wouldn’t do it when BBM was free?

    Security didn’t sell @ free but now people are going to pay for it? Well BB executives didn’t think of that before? It’s just simple and so obvious?

    At this point, I’m not seeing anything yet that’s worth paying for if my contacts aren’t willing to switch and pay for. It’s only worth anything if Facebook Messenger, Instagram and WhatsApp customers will switch over. Right now, it’s not happening. Security, AGAIN, doesn’t seem to sell...
    05-13-19 06:39 AM
  10. Paulelmar18's Avatar
    As long as you and I are not responsible employees of Blackberry Ltd (for me I can confirm it), we only speculate about the reasons why BlackBerry made the decision back then. And I prefer to trust facts.

    And now to the question whether you can make money with the BBMe? In any case not, if the prospective customers are advised against it. Let the guys make their own experiences. If they are positive and more and more people decide for it, then BlackBerry Ltd. will decide whether they continue.
    anon(10218918) and BBHermes like this.
    05-13-19 06:55 AM
  11. conite's Avatar

    I can't understand why the "CB officials" are badmouthing the BBMe and vehemently discouraging its use?
    Where has this happened?
    05-13-19 06:58 AM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    As long as you and I are not responsible employees of Blackberry Ltd (for me I can confirm it), we only speculate about the reasons why BlackBerry made the decision back then. And I prefer to trust facts.

    And now to the question whether you can make money with the BBMe? In any case not, if the prospective customers are advised against it. Let the guys make their own experiences. If they are positive and more and more people decide for it, then BlackBerry Ltd. will decide whether they continue.
    I, nor conite, haven’t told anybody not to purchase BBMe at this point, nor in the past. Our comments are comparing BBMe to other free IM products and questioning BB commitment to product since it’s consumer version has been abandoned twice already. The fact is that as BBMc user on Android/IOS with BB and then Emtek, BB has already told me they don’t want my business. My family and friends were told same thing also with past history. It’s a pattern that will repeat itself again, if nothing has changed. I’d love to know and be able to explain to potential users what’s different now?

    I’d love BB or ANY of it’s employees to share what’s changed. I doubt it’s employees can be allowed to freely speak without getting fired. That’s expected and I don’t want anyone getting fired.

    I expect BB will continue to be silent. I also expect product will only exist if profitable. I’m only going to pay if my contacts will choose to use over competitors. There’s no point in paying money to BB for a Messenger that has no use if no users.
    05-13-19 07:12 AM
  13. Paulelmar18's Avatar
    In communication theory, there is the four-sides model (I hope I translated the term correctly). According to this, the sender (you) is responsible for what the receiver (I) understands.

    And the totality of your statements here and in the other threads is so well received by many readers:
    Hands off the BBMe!
    It is uncertain! Others are safer!
    BlackBerry Ltd. doesn't like consumers!
    You harm BlackBerry Ltd. moreover, because they must offer something for free, for which they get otherwise 40 $ p.a.!
    You harm the shareholders, they lose money!

    A short hint: Maybe I can't answer your next posts immediately, because I unfortunately has to work (time difference). See you later.
    anon(10218918) likes this.
    05-13-19 07:35 AM
  14. conite's Avatar
    In communication theory, there is the four-sides model (I hope I translated the term correctly). According to this, the sender (you) is responsible for what the receiver (I) understands.
    At the same time, you can only lead a horse to water.
    05-13-19 07:56 AM
  15. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    In communication theory, there is the four-sides model (I hope I translated the term correctly). According to this, the sender (you) is responsible for what the receiver (I) understands.

    And the totality of your statements here and in the other threads is so well received by many readers:
    Hands off the BBMe!
    It is uncertain! Others are safer!
    BlackBerry Ltd. doesn't like consumers!
    You harm BlackBerry Ltd. moreover, because they must offer something for free, for which they get otherwise 40 $ p.a.!
    You harm the shareholders, they lose money!

    A short hint: Maybe I can't answer your next posts immediately, because I unfortunately has to work (time difference). See you later.
    The reality is as you say because I’m not convinced after BB past actions. BB could address this. It’s a $Billion USD company. I pay and support its products and you make statements as I’m harming BB cause by asking questions others are thinking. BB and Emtek created this situation. It’s their responsibility to answer these questions if they cause problems.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    05-13-19 08:19 AM
  16. Matt J's Avatar
    The arguments regarding financial viability are just that. If BB really believed in the consumer segment, why did BB license it off to Emtek instead of keeping it back then when it had far more users?

    If not economically viable three years ago, Emtek abandoning BBM, since it wasn’t economically viable anymore, what is going to make it economically viable now?

    Let’s discuss how BB monetizes this? How does BB move people from Facebook Messenger, Instagram and WhatsApp this go around when consumers wouldn’t do it when BBM was free?

    Security didn’t sell @ free but now people are going to pay for it? Well BB executives didn’t think of that before? It’s just simple and so obvious?

    At this point, I’m not seeing anything yet that’s worth paying for if my contacts aren’t willing to switch and pay for. It’s only worth anything if Facebook Messenger, Instagram and WhatsApp customers will switch over. Right now, it’s not happening. Security, AGAIN, doesn’t seem to sell...

    These are the FACTS:

    1. BBMe is high-grade encrypted.
    2. BBMe doesn't require a phone number. You can use it on ANY device, without a SIM card.
    3. The call and video quality are unparalleled and secure.
    4. The message expiry and retraction features are much better than other messengers.
    5. BBMe doesn't monetize the data that goes through its servers.
    6. BBMe Desktop can be used on multiple devices with call, video and screen share features.
    7. It is lightweight and doesn't use much memory or battery.
    8. It is fast.
    9. The PIN system allows for complete anonymity and privacy.
    10. BBMe doesn't allow for screenshots.

    These are all the ones I can think of from the top of my head.

    I'm sure the carriers don't like BBMe because it doesn't require a mobile plan and actually has better call quality than cellular service. I'm sure the snooping agencies don't like it because they can't listen into chats and phone calls. I'm sure Facebook and Google don't like it because of its "no data monetization" philosophy.

    So why don't people use it? It's actually the best, most secure and highest quality messaging service out there.

    If these facts were actually advertised, I'm sure people would see the value.

    For many people, BBMe could actually nullify the need for a mobile number and data plan.
    BBHermes likes this.
    05-13-19 08:25 AM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    These are the FACTS:

    1. BBMe is high-grade encrypted.
    2. BBMe doesn't require a phone number. You can use it on ANY device, without a SIM card.
    3. The call and video quality are unparalleled and secure.
    4. The message expiry and retraction features are much better than other messengers.
    5. BBMe doesn't monetize the data that goes through its servers.
    6. BBMe Desktop can be used on multiple devices with call, video and screen share features.
    7. It is lightweight and doesn't use much memory or battery.
    8. It is fast.
    9. The PIN system allows for complete anonymity and privacy.
    10. BBMe doesn't allow for screenshots.

    These are all the ones I can think of from the top of my head.

    I'm sure the carriers don't like BBMe because it doesn't require a mobile plan and actually has better call quality than cellular service. I'm sure the snooping agencies don't like it because they can't listen into chats and phone calls. I'm sure Facebook and Google don't like it because of its "no data monetization" philosophy.

    So why don't people use it? It's actually the best, most secure and highest quality messaging service out there.

    If these facts were actually advertised, I'm sure people would see the value.

    For many people, BBMe could actually nullify the need for a mobile number and data plan.
    BBM has always been the facts more or less that you listed. Yet, consumers don’t care. These facts were advertised for everything BB from OS and down to apps. Unfortunately, consumers have freedom to choose and prioritize in different ways.
    05-13-19 08:40 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    These are the FACTS:

    1. BBMe is high-grade encrypted.
    2. BBMe doesn't require a phone number. You can use it on ANY device, without a SIM card.
    3. The call and video quality are unparalleled and secure.
    4. The message expiry and retraction features are much better than other messengers.
    5. BBMe doesn't monetize the data that goes through its servers.
    6. BBMe Desktop can be used on multiple devices with call, video and screen share features.
    7. It is lightweight and doesn't use much memory or battery.
    8. It is fast.
    9. The PIN system allows for complete anonymity and privacy.
    10. BBMe doesn't allow for screenshots.

    These are all the ones I can think of from the top of my head.

    I'm sure the carriers don't like BBMe because it doesn't require a mobile plan and actually has better call quality than cellular service. I'm sure the snooping agencies don't like it because they can't listen into chats and phone calls. I'm sure Facebook and Google don't like it because of its "no data monetization" philosophy.

    So why don't people use it? It's actually the best, most secure and highest quality messaging service out there.

    If these facts were actually advertised, I'm sure people would see the value.

    For many people, BBMe could actually nullify the need for a mobile number and data plan.
    Your facts aren't quite accurate.

    You do need data to use BBMe (and correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't get mobile data without a phone plan).

    With in-band passphrase exchange and no message auto-destruct (with the consumer version), it is NOT the most secure.

    PIN is no more anonymous than a virtual phone number.

    But yes, indeed there are some features of BBMe that some may prefer over other offerings.
    05-13-19 08:46 AM
  19. Matt J's Avatar
    BBM has always been the facts more or less that you listed. Yet, consumers don’t care. These facts were advertised for everything BB from OS and down to apps. Unfortunately, consumers have freedom to choose and prioritize in different ways.
    Yes, these were always the facts I suppose. However, when have we ever seen these facts spelled out? For most people, BBM(e) is just another messenger, but it does have very unique features that if people knew about, they may actually appreciate.

    We know that BlackBerry Limited has never been any good at marketing. Their failures have always been about marketing, not technology. BB10 was better than Android and iOS when it came out, and arguably, Android and iOS are just catching up.

    I have one friend that just upgraded to an iPhone X. His first reaction was "hey, this is like my old Z10". I said, "yep, welcome to 2013."

    Apple and Google are not successful because their technology is particularly advanced. Sure, it's great, but their marketing is what does it. BlackBerry was the typical "engineering company"... they never really understood marketing and advertising.

    John Chen still doesn't get it. The money is in the consumer market, not the enterprise. Just look at the stock price...
    elfabio80 likes this.
    05-13-19 08:50 AM
  20. Matt J's Avatar
    Your facts aren't quite accurate.

    You do need data to use BBMe (and correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't get mobile data without a phone plan).

    With in-band passphrase exchange and no message auto-destruct (with the consumer version), it is NOT the most secure.

    PIN is no more anonymous than a virtual phone number.

    But yes, indeed there are some features of BBMe that some may prefer over other offerings.
    I was referring to Wi-Fi. BBMe can be used with only Wi-Fi and no data plan and phone number. As far as I know, it's the only messenger that can do this, except maybe Skype.
    05-13-19 08:52 AM
  21. conite's Avatar
    I was referring to Wi-Fi. BBMe can be used with only Wi-Fi and no data plan and phone number. As far as I know, it's the only messenger that can do this, except maybe Skype.
    They can all be used with Wi-Fi only.
    05-13-19 08:53 AM
  22. Matt J's Avatar
    They can all be used without a phone plan.
    Are you sure? The only way to use WhatsApp is if you have a phone number. Or am I mistaken?
    05-13-19 08:54 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    Are you sure? The only way to use WhatsApp is if you have a phone number. Or am I mistaken?
    Use any number of virtual numbers to do the initial setup.
    05-13-19 08:56 AM
  24. Matt J's Avatar
    Use any number of virtual numbers to do the initial setup.
    OK. Well, that's an added hassle and most people wouldn't know how to do that. I just set up WhatsApp for my parents yesterday, and they certainly wouldn't know how to get a virtual number.

    Are these virtual numbers free?
    05-13-19 09:03 AM
  25. conite's Avatar
    OK. Well, that's an added hassle and most people wouldn't know how to do that. I just set up WhatsApp for my parents yesterday, and they certainly wouldn't know how to get a virtual number.

    Are these virtual numbers free?
    Lots of free options.
    05-13-19 09:04 AM
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