1. CrackBerry News's Avatar
    Following in the footsteps of many tech leaders who have now spoke out against President Trump's executive order and immigration ban, BlackBerry CEO John Chen has issued his own statement on behalf of BlackBerry.

    Full story from the Crackberry Blog...
    01-30-17 02:22 PM
  2. cbeeches's Avatar
    John Chen needs to maintain focus on BB instead of getting involved in political matters. Making statements like his will make some happy and others displeased. JC does not need to upset any customers by taking sides in this thing.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    01-30-17 10:41 PM
  3. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    He's just blowing in the wind. MS and Google CEO's already put out similar statements. That a Canadian (or any other non-US) company feels compelled to comment about our internal politics bothers me.
    01-31-17 12:38 AM
  4. itsyaboy's Avatar
    He's just blowing in the wind. MS and Google CEO's already put out similar statements. That a Canadian (or any other non-US) company feels compelled to comment about our internal politics bothers me.
    Why does it bother you?

    Posted via CB10
    01-31-17 01:10 AM
  5. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    Because they are private corporations and should not be taking sides in our internal political affairs unless it has significant impact to their business. It properly belongs in the realm of international political leadership.
    01-31-17 01:32 AM
  6. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Because they are private corporations and should not be taking sides in our internal political affairs unless it has significant impact to their business. It properly belongs in the realm of international political leadership.
    Sometimes, these statements are very much business decisions.

    I don't really care either way, but that statement was not made without board approval, and considering the folks in control, it's not surprising they'd make a stand.
    Tim-ANC likes this.
    01-31-17 01:48 AM
  7. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    Sometimes, these statements are very much business decisions.

    I don't really care either way, but that statement was not made without board approval, and considering the folks in control, it's not surprising they'd make a stand.
    I have no doubt they felt it was a business decision. They saw MS and Google do it and wanted to act like the big boys too.
    01-31-17 02:02 AM
  8. itsyaboy's Avatar
    Because they are private corporations and should not be taking sides in our internal political affairs unless it has significant impact to their business. It properly belongs in the realm of international political leadership.
    Your proposed argument is why I think no market should be completely free of governmental regulation: companies should have a strong moral compass, but apparently most people think it is okay if companies just focus on the money.

    Say in your view, does there ever come a time when companies will have to speak out?

    Posted via CB10
    Tim-ANC likes this.
    01-31-17 02:09 AM
  9. guygardner73's Avatar
    Because they are private corporations and should not be taking sides in our internal political affairs unless it has significant impact to their business. It properly belongs in the realm of international political leadership.
    A valid point, but when a government's immigration policy may have an impact on the workforce of said company, the CEO may be looked to for his view on the matter.

    Posted via CB10
    Tim-ANC and Superdupont 2_0 like this.
    01-31-17 02:49 AM
  10. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    Your proposed argument is why I think no market should be completely free of governmental regulation: companies should have a strong moral compass, but apparently most people think it is okay if companies just focus on the money.

    Say in your view, does there ever come a time when companies will have to speak out?

    Posted via CB10
    I don't think it's a moral issue. And yes I also believe, governments should have some regulation of businesses incorporated in their countries.

    If the US government banned BlackBerry products in the US, I would have no problem with Chen making a statement. It would have a significant effect on their business.
    01-31-17 03:41 AM
  11. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    A valid point, but when a government's immigration policy may have an impact on the workforce of said company, the CEO may be looked to for his view on the matter.

    Posted via CB10
    You also have a valid point. However, in this case, the link posted by the OP states "no BlackBerry employees have been affected"
    01-31-17 03:47 AM
  12. itsyaboy's Avatar
    I don't think it's a moral issue. And yes I also believe, governments should have some regulation of businesses incorporated in their countries.

    If the US government banned BlackBerry products in the US, I would have no problem with Chen making a statement. It would have a significant effect on their business.
    How is it not a moral issue when we are discussing discrimination? Maybe I am looking at it from the wrong point of view. Could you elaborate on why this isn't a moral issue?

    Posted via CB10
    Tim-ANC and Superdupont 2_0 like this.
    01-31-17 04:35 AM
  13. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    How is it not a moral issue when we are discussing discrimination? Maybe I am looking at it from the wrong point of view. Could you elaborate on why this isn't a moral issue?

    Posted via CB10
    I think its a political issue. Every country has a right to restrict entry across its borders. Every country does it. As a US Citizen, I can't go to Brasil without a visa. My wife, an Irish citizen, is allowed into Brasil visa free. I don't believe this is discriminatory, its just Brasil wants to keep better track of US citizens in their country for reasons of their own. Trump for political reasons has increased the restrictions on people coming from a few countries he believes are a higher risk or does not trust those governments to vet their citizenry adequately enough for entry into the US. Whether it is a good political move is debatable.
    01-31-17 05:19 AM
  14. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    I think its a political issue. [...] Trump for political reasons has increased the restrictions on people coming from a few countries he believes are a higher risk or does not trust those governments to vet their citizenry adequately enough for entry into the US. Whether it is a good political move is debatable.
    I think your wife would be not so comfortable, if she would be stopped at the immigration-check at the airport in Brazil, just because immigration rules for Irish have been changed over night.

    If you rush such a decision over night without proper vetting, you must have very very VERY good reasons, because you are messing up innocent people's lifes and YOU KNOW IT.

    The only explanation from the White House I have heard so far seems to be "alternative facts".
    And if they gonna continue to run a 18 Trillion USD economy in that amateurish way, you can be sure many people outside the US will be affected sooner or later.

    BTW, every (political) decision has a moral dimension, it can be fair/unfair or moral/unmoral or good/bad or whatever you prefer to call it.
    Tim-ANC likes this.
    01-31-17 06:22 AM
  15. ohaiguise's Avatar
    Identity politics is a cancer ... the real issues are related to fundamental economic inequalities.
    Tim-ANC likes this.
    01-31-17 07:40 AM
  16. Powdah's Avatar
    1: The Obama administration determined which countries.
    2: All of last 5 administrations (including Obama) have had travel ban.

    Posted via CB10
    Tim-ANC likes this.
    01-31-17 07:52 AM
  17. vladi's Avatar
    Because they are private corporations and should not be taking sides in our internal political affairs unless it has significant impact to their business. It properly belongs in the realm of international political leadership.
    NO!! Private corporations should have moral obligations just like human beings within our society period!
    Tim-ANC likes this.
    01-31-17 08:18 AM
  18. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    I think your wife would be not so comfortable, if she would be stopped at the immigration-check at the airport in Brazil, just because immigration rules for Irish have been changed over night.

    If you rush such a decision over night without proper vetting, you must have very very VERY good reasons, because you are messing up innocent people's lifes and YOU KNOW IT.

    The only explanation from the White House I have heard so far seems to be "alternative facts".
    And if they gonna continue to run a 18 Trillion USD economy in that amateurish way, you can be sure many people outside the US will be affected sooner or later.

    BTW, every (political) decision has a moral dimension, it can be fair/unfair or moral/unmoral or good/bad or whatever you prefer to call it.
    Sure, I believe some Political decisions are moral. Not all however. Imposing tariffs is not a moral decision.


    I think Trump did this believing it would better protect the US and its people. A political task he is mandated to perform. I voted for Trump, so my initial reaction is to trust what he is doing is right for my country. Though I won’t blindly endorse his every decision if I see evidence it is wrong. Haven’t seen such evidence to convince me in this case yet.


    I do know this about Trump: He will offer the most reactionary proposal to begin with. It causes the posers to drop out and the real players to clearly reveal their stance. Once Trump has this clarity, it gives him the tools to negotiate down to a more equitable deal. The process has been successful for him. I see no reason for him to deviate from it.
    01-31-17 08:41 AM
  19. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    NO!! Private corporations should have moral obligations just like human beings within our society period!
    Nice idea, but most don't. It's the world we live in. They do try to make you believe different.
    01-31-17 08:43 AM
  20. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    Sure, I believe some Political decisions are moral. Not all however. Imposing tariffs is not a moral decision.
    I tend to disagree, but this would totally derail this thread.
    Let's agree to disagree

    [... ]my initial reaction is to trust what he is doing is right for my country. Though I won’t blindly endorse his every decision if I see evidence it is wrong. Haven’t seen such evidence to convince me in this case yet.[...]
    Fair enough, I read the newspapers every morning to check what politicians are doing (including those who got my vote), but honestly, not every article and not for everything.

    What I have read so far about this particular case gives me the impression that there haven't been any concrete urgent threats, so they had no reason to rush it. They could have announced the upcoming change in public in advance to make sure people can cancel their (travel) plans, with much better explanation who is affected and who is not and why.

    The chaotic way they have handled this, the poor communication, that is neither respectful for the people who have been affected nor was it done professionally... at least that's my personal take from the press.
    And I think this is what makes other people so concerned, even outside the US.


    The process has been successful for him. I see no reason for him to deviate from it.
    Well, but now he is fully accountable.
    Everything this admininistration decides will be ultimately his decision.
    The chaos at the airport, that was created by him and not by anybody else, not the congress, not the media, not the establishment, not any aides... he is the president now.
    Tim-ANC likes this.
    01-31-17 09:29 AM
  21. guygardner73's Avatar
    You also have a valid point. However, in this case, the link posted by the OP states "no BlackBerry employees have been affected"
    Oh, I missed that. In that case, maybe he's just jumping on the bandwagon then. I do think though that because Trump is now the leader of the free world, he can expect opinions from anyone in the free world, not necessarily just the US. Over here we have plenty anti Trump demonstrations going on (which I find bizarre because there's plenty of other world leaders doing a lot worse than Trump). If I was an American, I would be a Republican but I think the problem the whole world is having with him is that he dances to his own tune and his decisions are not motivated by the things that traditionally motivate politicians. This makes him hard to anticipate and therefore people are nervous. The whole world is talking about Trump and it's not going to end anytime soon.

    Posted via CB10
    Tim-ANC likes this.
    02-01-17 06:40 AM
  22. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    Oh, I missed that. In that case, maybe he's just jumping on the bandwagon then. I do think though that because Trump is now the leader of the free world, he can expect opinions from anyone in the free world, not necessarily just the US. Over here we have plenty anti Trump demonstrations going on (which I find bizarre because there's plenty of other world leaders doing a lot worse than Trump). If I was an American, I would be a Republican but I think the problem the whole world is having with him is that he dances to his own tune and his decisions are not motivated by the things that traditionally motivate politicians. This makes him hard to anticipate and therefore people are nervous. The whole world is talking about Trump and it's not going to end anytime soon.

    Posted via CB10
    I am "over here" been in the EU for several months and currently in Ireland. I get all sorts of unsolicited comments about US politics, the election, Trump. I'm like: "WTF do you know about it besides what RTE and BBC want to tell you?" Likely, I'm hyper sensitive to outside criticism. You are right, he is definitely an enigmatic and polarizing personality. He knew what he was getting into. So should I.
    02-01-17 07:05 AM
  23. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Politics aside.... don't think it's wise for a foreign born CEO that runs a corporation located outside the USA, but who counts the US government as one of their biggest suppliers.... yanking the chain of the guy who is now running that government and seems to be very pro "made in the USA". In basic terms, the US Government is a BIG BlackBerry customer. Trump is a businessman, and seems like the type to take things personally. Might be the type to keep a little black book with a list of names in it, and I think that John Chen and BlackBerry just got put in there.
    Tim-ANC likes this.
    02-01-17 08:24 AM
  24. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    Might be the type to keep a little black book with a list of names in it, and I think that John Chen and BlackBerry just got put in there.
    Book title: Bad Hombres and Nasty Women

    He should use "A Day In Life" or "Groovy Notes" from XLabz on a Passport for that, much more storage capacity.

    That all aside.
    I totally understand the bizarre feeling, if a foreign person is talking about your country and its president.

    But many of us are living in a global world.
    John Chen only said: " I am disheartened and do not agree with the sharpness of President Trump's executive order and immigration ban."

    I think that's the whole point.
    The way they have imlemented and justified this ban was a desaster.

    You are a innocent person, you followed the rules, you submitted all docs, got vetted, have any form of visa or stay permit... that's like you have made a deal with the US for immigration.
    And then suddenly they cancel the deal over night without pre-notice:
    You can't take the connection flight to the US or can't immigrate after the arrival, just because of all the confusion of this sudden ban.

    If that's the way I would do business with my clients, I would have lost all of them within a year.
    (I am in Sales, and what I actually sell is confidence that my company will fulfill all obligations of the deal and not making any stunts over night.)


    I am (not American but) in certain sense maybe in the same boat like Tim-ANC, just sitting at the other end.
    I would not worry about (or disagree to) everything from Trump, only because it comes from Trump.

    For example, his pick for Supreme Court (Neil Gorsuch) doesn't worry me at all, because he seems to be a fine person and competend judge and it's really a domestic US issue etc etc. ...but everything that could negatively affect international relationsships and the open culture here in Europe is a concern.
    Tim-ANC likes this.
    02-02-17 04:43 AM
  25. Tim-ANC's Avatar
    Sad fact, in war, and this is about the war on terror, innocents suffer the most. War heightens xenophobia. I have been fortunate in my career to have lived and worked around the globe. People are more the same than they are different. I possess a perspective that many don't. For all the financial and cultural interdependence we have worldwide, the human animal is still very tribal. We still cling to a system where we need to have one person be the chief of our tribe.
    02-02-17 06:52 AM
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