10-01-13 01:06 AM
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  1. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Wow, nice post.

    My point IS. Apple knows what they are doing by staying dual and not touting quad core: for them it's about optimization. BB does not need the A7 chip, or a rush to Quad core due to the FACT that they have optimized the hardware and software, and from my use of the device they have.

    I was not comparing BB to Apple in terms of developing a chip, i was stating that to call the Z30 DOA based on them not adding amped up specs is missing the real technology story. The big picture here is...The market is telling BB's story vs them doing it themselves like a few of their competitors have done.

    Dom't lump me in with fanboy bloggers who jump with glee over every claim they find online........I don't / won't drink the koolaid. Use the device, find out if it works as advertised first..then write the evidence down ....end of story.


    As for the BB10 all in claim = bad corp management, no debate there.
    I am sorry to have jumped on you that quickly then.
    My problem with the Z30 aren't the specs btw, it's the price and what it offers for that price.

    I bought the Z10 as an early adopter for its full price.
    I like BB10 and for the specs the Z10 offers, it works pretty good.
    There is just one problem with that:
    The market has rejected BB10 until now and BlackBerry won't survive thanks to buyers like me. They need a broader target audience.

    The competition is just too good right now and the Z30 having the same price as a Note 3 or Sony Z1 or LG G2 or the iPhone 5C (no, I don't like the 5C but it'll still sell like hotcakes nonetheless), will not help BlackBerry in the slightest.

    Have you read the editorial from Shao on the CB mainpage?
    BlackBerry is severly limiting the headless app feature and they are shooting themselves in the foot yet again.
    It's like they are begging to fail with their offerings...

    I would have loved for BlackBerry to succeed because I see so much potential with BB10 and what it can already do.
    The problem is that I am part of probably less than 1% of smartphone buyers and with the price of the Z30, it is very doubtfull that this number will change in a positive way.

    Posted via CB10
    BerryWizard, fanisk and BBSpring like this.
    09-19-13 08:41 PM
  2. rotorwrench's Avatar
    This is why MOST tech heads and bloggers don't know squat:

    The A7 chip is speced at 1.3Ghz, dual core. Yet tests suggest it out performs quad core chips. Marketing rules , not specs.....time to end the silly back and forth. BB knows what it's doing, they are just VERY poor at telling and showing people that.

    Tests show iPhone 5s A7 chip is dual-core, still beats quad-core Android competitors Tech News and Analysis
    Agreed, what matters to me is not the specs but what the device does with what it has, real world performance. Too many examples of lower speced devices outperforming their higher speced counterparts. As for the camera, it's not just the megapixels but the lens and software. Ask a photographer if higher megapixels automatically equates to better quality photos. My bro-in-law is wildlife photographer and will give you an emphatic no to that question.
    09-20-13 01:31 AM
  3. sportline's Avatar
    Z30 will compete with HTC one, SG4, Xperia Z & Z1, Nokia 925/1020 and iphone 5S. Can't win on being BB10, so price got to be competitive. Sell it slightly less and it may eventually sell. The way BB priced their cellphones (at tablet) ends up in huge write-off.
    Nowadays Z10 costs around $400 (cash/non contract) but Q10 still costs $600..both jakarta/indonesia prices. For $600 you can get xperia Z or HTC one.
    09-20-13 04:46 AM
  4. anon(2313227)'s Avatar
    The PB HW still runs circles around a lot of Android tablets in the market.
    Too bad they can't get pass the RAM issues.
    Here's why this thread is irrelevant, Blackberry Playbook.
    09-20-13 05:15 AM
  5. anon(2313227)'s Avatar
    I concur, BB has no need for Octacore and 1080p etc. that is useless but pricing is imperative. A Z30 at < $600 would sell nicely.
    Z30 will compete with HTC one, SG4, Xperia Z & Z1, Nokia 925/1020 and iphone 5S. Can't win on being BB10, so price got to be competitive. Sell it slightly less and it may eventually sell. The way BB priced their cellphones (at tablet) ends up in huge write-off.
    Nowadays Z10 costs around $400 (cash/non contract) but Q10 still costs $600..both jakarta/indonesia prices. For $600 you can get xperia Z or HTC one.
    09-20-13 05:17 AM
  6. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I concur, BB has no need for Octacore and 1080p etc. that is useless but pricing is imperative. A Z30 at < $600 would sell nicely.
    You do know that the octacore Samsung uses is not a real octacore, but actually used as 2 quadcores, where one is clocked slower than the other one?
    It's called big.LITTLE and serves as a battery saver.

    When people are throwing the term octacore around in these forums, they mostly don't understand what it actually means.

    You have also set the price target too high, yet again.
    If anything, the device must be in the sub 500$ region.

    Posted via CB10
    09-20-13 05:22 AM
  7. LeeU1911's Avatar
    Marketing is everything
    I second Douken here.

    MARKETING IS EVERYTHING!

    It's not about the Software, it's not about the Hardware. It's all about how you show people that your products are cool! That's it.
    When Apple introduced the iPhone, no one cared about the specs. All they cared were the user experience on iOS.
    When Samsung put a ton of money to advertise the Galaxy devices, no one cared about how the Android sucks. All they compared were the specs.

    Again, it's all about marketing. Like if you're with me.
    BBSpring and fanisk like this.
    09-20-13 05:30 AM
  8. LWKING's Avatar
    You do know that the octacore Samsung uses is not a real octacore, but actually used as 2 quadcores, where one is clocked slower than the other one?
    It's called big.LITTLE and serves as a battery saver.

    When people are throwing the term octacore around in these forums, they mostly don't understand what it actually means.

    You have also set the price target too high, yet again.
    If anything, the device must be in the sub 500$ region.

    Posted via CB10
    As long as it's $150 on contract with the carriers, I think it'll be good. I'm not sure what that equates to unlocked.

    Posted via CB10
    09-20-13 08:54 AM
  9. BBSpring's Avatar
    I agree with the points you raise: The pricing and marketing strategy is really bad for a company trying to come from behind. I tell everyone that will listen, BBRY is the worst run tech company still in business. Wonderful product, horrible management direction. I do not run a tech company, so I cannot provide real world advice, but some of the errors are actually mind boggling.

    If you watch the squeeze-out that Google is putting on BB ( with lack of software access), it's easy to see why more and more folks will just leave the platform. You need access to powerful online software to realize the full potential of a connected device, Google has it, provides it to IOS....shuts out MSFT, BB. and just waits. Duopoly!
    09-20-13 10:22 AM
  10. Jahcure's Avatar
    I agree with the points you raise: The pricing and marketing strategy is really bad for a company trying to come from behind. I tell everyone that will listen, BBRY is the worst run tech company still in business. Wonderful product, horrible management direction. I do not run a tech company, so I cannot provide real world advice, but some of the errors are actually mind boggling.

    If you watch the squeeze-out that Google is putting on BB ( with lack of software access), it's easy to see why more and more folks will just leave the platform. You need access to powerful online software to realize the full potential of a connected device, Google has it, provides it to IOS....shuts out MSFT, BB. and just waits. Duopoly!
    Maybe Ballmer is correct by calling Google a monopoly. Amazing some of the stuff Google gets away with while ms was getting sued left and right by governments back in the day when they even had a hint of bad practices.

    Posted via CB10
    09-20-13 10:31 AM
  11. Gearheadaddy's Avatar
    Here's why this thread is irrelevant, Blackberry Playbook.
    Bridge updated: BBM on Playbook...HAH!

    Trusted Member Genius
    Jahcure likes this.
    09-20-13 11:00 AM
  12. eddy_berry's Avatar
    Have you read the editorial from Shao on the CB mainpage?
    BlackBerry is severly limiting the headless app feature and they are shooting themselves in the foot yet again.
    It's like they are begging to fail with their offerings...
    Hey Marsupi. Can I call you that? Hehe. I agree with you on your post but regarding this headless app issue. I did read the article. Although Shaos suggestion would be great to have, I have to disagree with what BlackBerry offers as a bad thing. Maybe not perfect would be a better description. I was just as annoyed by the news as many were until I noticed other developers commenting. I raked through the crazy comments section until I got a better understanding of it from other CB developers. I understand why they are doing it they way they are. They are clearly concerned that the user friendliness of the OS would become a nightmare. Shaos idea would still help with that since it gives users more control and therefore more responsibility for their apps, but the complexity of the system may make it less ideal and even more difficult for many customers.

    I would like a way to hide active frames that I always keep on but I agree with BlackBerry that it needs to have control or else the problems that OS7 with runaway poorly coded apps surface. Android has this problem too and many users blame Android as becoming laggy when really it's their own penchant for leaving random apps running and not properly shutting them down which until now wasn't easy to figure out for the average user. Sorry for the long post about this. I hope other developers can chime in soon enough and add to Shaos ideas and I really hope BlackBerry is listening.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    09-20-13 11:25 AM
  13. d3r3k79's Avatar
    The average Joe says. Oh it's 2013 and a dual core? What's wrong with this company!? The HTC One has a quad core blah blah

    Ok basically you are comparing oranges and bicycles...yes.

    You see, the Z30 is not running on Android so comparisons like this are a joke.

    BlackBerry 10 is an efficient OS, it does not require an 8 core to run like that other OS. You would never use such specs anyways.

    I see it like BlackBerry 10 = Windows XP
    Android = Vista

    Yeah, your little low spec PC needed an upgrade, hardware wise, if anyone wanted Vista on their machines.

    But the case here is that we have the most efficient OS between the two. We actually should be laughing at Android devices and how they need such amounts of hardware to run properly while we do not.

    Next time someone makes fun of your phone for being low spec you make phone of them for having a low inefficient OS.

    Marketing is everything
    Of course the HW and specs are relevant. Thats like PC manufacturers releasing the same product every 6 months expecting to 'wow' consumers with new product that is hardly an upgrade to an existing model?
    Marketing is a huge factor in the success of a product. But riddle me this... how do you market the Z30 which is almost identical to the Z10, when Z10 sales could be described as a failure. how do you market that.
    Keep dreaming if you dont think HW and specs are a big deal in this day and age. You may as well be a BlackBerry exec with that kind of attitude cuz thats whats helping drive the nail in the coffin.
    09-20-13 11:49 AM
  14. TBone4eva's Avatar
    OP, the problem comes down to "perceived value". If I'm a regular joe consumer and I go into a carrier store and I'm looking at the Z30 vs many of the other phones in the same price range, I see the lower spec'd Z30 as having less perceived value than a higher spec'd quad-core phone. Apple is not immune to this, it's just that they compete with themselves. People stand in long lines for the next iPhone because it's usually faster and better than the previous iPhone.

    Another area of perceived value is the ecosystem. All the apps that Google Play and the Apple App Store has vs BB World adds significant value to an iPhone or Android phone over the Z30. If I love Instagram, Netflix or Candy Crush, well the Z30 has less value for the price because it doesn't have Instagram, Netflix or Candy Crush. Apps matter and if you don't have the apps people want that other platforms offer then people will flock to those platforms.

    The next area is market share. The simple fact is that most consumers like to have what others have for the shared experience. So a Z30 has less value for the price because most likely that consumer will not have friends who have the same phone that they can share the experience with.

    And finally marketing. If the consumer doesn't know much or anything about the Z30 that gives it a wow factor then it has less value for the price of an iPhone or Android phone like an S4 that gets lots of marketing.

    It's a hard sell to have the Z30 sitting there amongst all the other players with the pricing BBRY is using when the perceived value is not close to what the other phones have.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    09-20-13 12:48 PM
  15. Coach57's Avatar
    But if you remove the iPhones from that comparison, then isn't it true that in general the quad-core phones are outperforming the dual-core phones in that particular comparison?

    In that comparison, the A7 and A6 are the only dual-cores that ended up at the top of the chart, right? BlackBerry isn't putting the A7 in the Z30.

    And in any case isn't it possible that the reason the A7 and A6 do so well in browsermark is that the test was done with the new mobile Safari? That may be giving them an unfair advantage in that particular benchmark.
    The point is not the A7. It's the OS and apps and their optimization for the platform they're implemented on.

    I was at local Videotron shop in Montreal today and the rep explained that the latest Samsung has more cores than the Z10/Q10 from Blackberry. But in his words, Blackberry was more stable. Neither claim has any real importance -- it's just blather. "cores" is just a metric so regular people can have a "fact" on which to base their purchase decision.

    I have no doubt that the rep was primed by Samsung to spout "more cores" when asked about Samsung phones. I wonder if he was primed by Blackberry to say "more stable" when asked about BB10.
    09-20-13 01:03 PM
  16. googlebing's Avatar
    Also, dual-core doesn't mean very much. The Tegra 3 is less powerful than the dual-core competition.

    Posted via CB10
    09-22-13 01:09 PM
  17. kthhrrsn's Avatar
    Tremendous amount of people bought iPad Minis last year; it has 1024x768 on a 7" screen!.. 163 ppi!..
    No one says it's irrelevant.. No one complains about it. Serious amount of people are happily using it around me.

    On a 5" screen we have a 295 ppi and people are talking like it's 2008's specs.

    I actually prefer longer battery life than having a sharper display, 295 ppi is already OK for me. Having a 1080p display with worse battery life - especially with games- would not make me happy.

    I'm sure next year Z60 or whatever name will be have 1080 p screen (They will probably tell devs next year that the next generation devices will support 1440x1440 or 2560 x 1440) and move on to that category but by then they will also use quad core CPUs better and efficiently and have even more better hardware.

    AMOLED is also great improvement in BB's current lineup, so I tell everyone to care more about other stuff than comparing screen resolutions..
    Apple products have a cult following & people ignore the deficiencies shortcomings that they'd demand from other manufacturers. We all know that even BlackBerry 5 had more functionality than current iPhones, but people buy Apple over BlackBerry anyway. That's the advantage of Apple being a perceived market leader. BlackBerry isn't in that position so they have to compete with android developers in the specs race.

    Keith H. Posted via CB10
    09-22-13 01:22 PM
  18. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    The average Joe says. Oh it's 2013 and a dual core? What's wrong with this company!? The HTC One has a quad core blah blah

    Ok basically you are comparing oranges and bicycles...yes.

    You see, the Z30 is not running on Android so comparisons like this are a joke.

    BlackBerry 10 is an efficient OS, it does not require an 8 core to run like that other OS. You would never use such specs anyways.
    Your whole point collapses due to the fact that BB10 ISN'T in any way "more efficient" than Android.

    In fact it is a resource hog that would make any Android resource-hogging handset embarrassed... Proof? BB10 won't run on a phone with less than 2gb RAM (which is why Playbook couldn't run it, I believe?) whereas Android manages just fine with 1 GB RAM or even half a GB.

    Also keep in mind that the Qualcomm CPU in the Z30 is an older, slower model, that is leagues behind the newer Snapdragon 800 quad cores.

    In 9 out of 10 cases a quad core IS faster than a dual core. Much faster. The amount of power used is neglibly higher, in most cases...
    LWKING likes this.
    09-22-13 01:24 PM
  19. kthhrrsn's Avatar
    That would be extremely stupid. You don't need anymore than 720 on a screen that is 5 inches or less. 10 inch screens would be a different story.
    I wish we would stop holding ourselves back by talking about what people don't need and using that as an excuse not to push the envelope. If 1080p can be put on devices it should be put on devices, until something better comes along. And them put that better thing on the device.

    Evolution is a must.

    Keith H. Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX and BerryWizard like this.
    09-22-13 01:24 PM
  20. kthhrrsn's Avatar
    And this guy gets it! ^^

    No specs no sales. Also camera is sup par as well along with the lack of apps this phone is doa

    Posted via CB10
    This is sad but true!! Nobody out there even knows that BB10 is a completely new, built from scratch OS. And yet we expect them to understand that they're trading processing power for a more efficient OS (whatever that means)?

    Give me fully loaded hardware any day! If the OS doesn't work out at least I'll be able to root it and run a. Ompletely different OS in the future.

    Look at the PlayBook. It can't even run BB10 because of its lackluster hardware specs.

    Keith H. Posted via CB10
    09-22-13 01:30 PM
  21. IgotsThis's Avatar
    Isn't the z30 quad core?

    BBM channels: c00121c99 for some knowledge and c00123fca for some real hip hop
    09-22-13 01:39 PM
  22. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Isn't the z30 quad core?

    BBM channels: c00121c99 for some knowledge and c00123fca for some real hip hop
    The CPU isn't.

    Posted via CB10
    09-22-13 01:45 PM
  23. IgotsThis's Avatar
    The CPU isn't.

    Posted via CB10
    Mmmm, isn't the CPU snapdragon s4?
    Or are we talking gpu?

    BBM channels: c00121c99 for some knowledge and c00123fca for some real hip hop
    09-22-13 01:57 PM
  24. BerryWizard's Avatar
    Wow, nice post.

    My point IS. Apple knows what they are doing by staying dual and not touting quad core: for them it's about optimization. BB does not need the A7 chip, or a rush to Quad core due to the FACT that they have optimized the hardware and software, and from my use of the device they have.

    I was not comparing BB to Apple in terms of developing a chip, i was stating that to call the Z30 DOA based on them not adding amped up specs is missing the real technology story. The big picture here is...The market is telling BB's story vs them doing it themselves like a few of their competitors have done.

    Dom't lump me in with fanboy bloggers who jump with glee over every claim they find online........I don't / won't drink the koolaid. Use the device, find out if it works as advertised first..then write the evidence down ....end of story.


    As for the BB10 all in claim = bad corp management, no debate there.
    OK. Fair enough.
    Let's put it in another way :
    You and I who tried BB10 Know that this os doesn't need a faster processor to deliver an amazing experience.
    The point of everyone who are asking for the quad core ( the screen and the camera are different things) is that if BlackBerry wanted this to work and selll like hell, they should have went all in and put a 500 hp engine on a civic ( that that's mean unnecessary power to a compact car) people have associated BlackBerry with words like "battery pull" "os freezes " " too many apps opened, must close some, running out of memory "
    All the people I PERSONALLY KNOW who left the platform had one of these reasons. Now, think about the 2-3 years they took to bring bb10 and all the marketing the other oem have done to make people BELIEVE that if you want a better user experience, you need better specs. It is not true and apple is a good example why we knew before bb10 that it wasn't true. If you want people to even give this thing a try and understand why we love it so much, you have to attract them with what they know and with all the marketing brainwashing that others have done, that means giving them the damn quad-core !

    Comprende amigo?


    Posted via CB10
    09-22-13 02:26 PM
  25. BerryWizard's Avatar
    Apple products have a cult following & people ignore the deficiencies shortcomings that they'd demand from other manufacturers. We all know that even BlackBerry 5 had more functionality than current iPhones, but people buy Apple over BlackBerry anyway. That's the advantage of Apple being a perceived market leader. BlackBerry isn't in that position so they have to compete with android developers in the specs race.

    Keith H. Posted via CB10
    Haha..... hold on..... -_-' say what ?

    You gotto be joking....did you just said you can do more with a BlackBerry os 5 device ( the most powerful being the bold 9700)
    With the CURRENT IPHONES ?....we are talking about the iPhone 5s here right ? ......ok, lets be fair and say you meant the 5....please pm me the phone number of your pusher, I need to smoke some of that good stuff, smh

    Posted via CB10
    ihys likes this.
    09-22-13 02:45 PM
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