10-20-13 05:36 PM
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  1. crucial bbq's Avatar
    Can you explain to me how BB10 isn't if it also requires 2GB to run well?
    It's not that simple. The 2 gigs of RAM on an Android device is news because only a few recent phones are being built with that amount. On one hand, more RAM does not necessarily make a computer run faster, and it has to be running an OS and hardware that can address the more RAM (which mobile Linux can very well do). On the other, more RAM allows more apps to be up-and-running at once. Neither BB10 or Android 4.x require 2 gigs of RAM to run well, but on paper more RAM means more background processes, more open apps, and more productivity.

    I am not sure how Google uses the Android kernel to address RAM, or if it has something to do with customized UIs or carrier installed bloatware, but historically Android runs faster with more RAM. I know even less about BB10.
    Donvald likes this.
    10-07-13 06:03 AM
  2. playbookster's Avatar
    It's not that simple. The 2 gigs of RAM on an Android device is news because only a few recent phones are being built with that amount. On one hand, more RAM does not necessarily make a computer run faster, and it has to be running an OS and hardware that can address the more RAM (which mobile Linux can very well do). On the other, more RAM allows more apps to be up-and-running at once. Neither BB10 or Android 4.x require 2 gigs of RAM to run well, but on paper more RAM means more background processes, more open apps, and more productivity.

    I am not sure how Google uses the Android kernel to address RAM, or if it has something to do with customized UIs or carrier installed bloatware, but historically Android runs faster with more RAM. I know even less about BB10.
    Every new android phone has 2gb of ram now unless it's some cappy low end one running an old version of android


    Posted via CB10
    crucial bbq likes this.
    10-07-13 07:47 AM
  3. wanted198's Avatar
    Nexus 5 obviously. I am pretty sure vanilla android runs at a good speed, it's all the manufacturers' variants that don't.
    10-07-13 09:14 AM
  4. KemKev's Avatar
    and which Blackberry phone is good? I am very curious since they are all rubbish, software included..the z30 screen is awful compared to any flagship Android phones
    Geez, someone peed in your cornflakes?
    badiyee likes this.
    10-07-13 09:22 AM
  5. Nicholas Kathrein's Avatar
    Efficient, yet it requires at least 2 gigs of ram to run properly while ios and wp8 do not...
    I have an old HTC EVO 4G LTE on Sprint and it has 1gb and runs great. I'm running Cyanogenmod. I think many of you haven't had the pure android experience. It smooth and silky as all other OS's. Android 4.4 will be out in the next few weeks.
    10-07-13 09:33 AM
  6. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I have an old HTC EVO 4G LTE on Sprint and it has 1gb and runs great. I'm running Cyanogenmod. I think many of you haven't had the pure android experience. It smooth and silky as all other OS's. Android 4.4 will be out in the next few weeks.
    Rocking the same device. I bounce between Cyanogen and BadSeed with Reactor for gestures.

    Can't wait to try 4.4.
    10-07-13 09:38 AM
  7. Nicholas Kathrein's Avatar
    Rocking the same device. I bounce between Cyanogen and BadSeed with Reactor for gestures.

    Can't wait to try 4.4.
    Me either. I tried Paranoid Android recently also and really like it but it has onscreen navigation buttons that I can't figure how to turn off without loosing my notification draw. Now Paranoid Android would be very cool on the new LG G2 that has an edge to edge display.
    Tre Lawrence likes this.
    10-07-13 09:44 AM
  8. lcohen999's Avatar
    I use and like my Z10 and if Blackberry was not in the condition that it was in, I feel certain that I would buy a Z30. As it is, I am paying careful attention to the Nexus 5.

    With Blackberry's future so uncertain, I am very reluctant to buy another one. I am hoping that this situation sorts itself in the next few weeks.

    Android is far from perfect and I like BB10 much better. But, Nexus 5 has great specs. Android now has lots of good apps and you don't have to pray that a sideload works. Plus, my wife has a Nexus 4 and people who claim that Android is laggy simply don't know what they are talking about. This is part of the BB fanboi reality distortion zone that has prevented BB from addressing its problems over the years.

    Again, Android is not the most elegant OS but the OS is not everything. The OS is just a platform to do other things with.
    This

    and I am getting a little tired of the effort of sideloading. PvZ2 is a great example. I have to get the APK, convert with debug token, upload, then copy a folder to the device, put in the right place (obb) run.

    I play VERY few games on my phone, but I do enjoy the odd one. It would be nice just to be able to download it. Even flipboard seemed liberating when it became available on App World rather than side load.

    I love my Z10 but I think the N5 will be added to my shopping cart soon.
    10-07-13 09:50 AM
  9. Hilman76's Avatar
    Android doesn't run well even on 2gb of ram...

    Posted via CB10
    My LG G2 would beg to differ, its blazing fast with ZERO lag.
    pantlesspenguin and SMocek like this.
    10-07-13 10:02 AM
  10. iN8ter's Avatar
    Android has more UI Latency than iOS and Windows Phone. It can stutter sometimes. But I think people here do not know what Lag actually is. I haven't seen a device lag in a while, on any OS, since around FroYo/Early GB, Windows Mobile, BB OS 6 days.

    In any case, this thing will probably blow the Z30 away in price, which will allow it to outsell it easily.

    I will probably buy one for a friend if they have a cheaper 16GB variant, because it will almost undoubtedly be cheaper than most other off-contract devices (except maybe a Nokia Windows Phone).

    Thanks for the perspective. The Z30 actually doesn't sound too bad. It doesn't match in pixel density and processor power. From what I'm reading the Nexus 5 also has a newer GPU as well. The rest is pretty well matched with the Z30 having the better battery, stereo sound and a 2MP front camera. Clearly the Z30 was designed for a different purpose.
    The back camera on the Nexus 5, if it's anything comparable to what the G2 has, will blow away the Z30 which IIRC has the same camera as the Z10 or very similar.

    No one cares how many MP are in a FFC, as long as it does 720p for video conferencing (this is coming to Hangouts) they won't care. Apple and HTC IIRC are still using 1.2MP front cams. Only Samsung has been using 2MP for the past 2+ years (S2, 3, and 4 all had 1.9MP front cameras) and it was never a selling point for their devices.

    I'm pretty sure all these high end phones have stereo speakers.

    The Z30 was designed for the same purpose the Z10 was designed for. They have just pivoted their targets because it was such a massive failure. You act like that phone was designed yesterday. It was designed probably around the same time the Z10 was being finalized and production was beginning. Phones don't just pop out of companies that quickly.
    10-07-13 10:02 AM
  11. iN8ter's Avatar
    and that camera, definitely not top spec, nobody will buy that crap

    btw , seems pretty similar exc. for the screen res , and both are much better than "RETINA" display, that amazing marketing triumph BS
    Retina PPI is 326, IIRC. The Z30 is only 295 PPI. It's PPI is worse than a GS3, HTC One X, Nexus 4 or even a Galaxy Nexus...
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    10-07-13 10:05 AM
  12. JasW's Avatar
    So other than the quad core and the 1080p resolution of the display, everything else on the Nexus 5 is worse than on the Z30...so how is this better?

    Posted via CB10
    All I see is the battery size and the front camera as being "worse." But display and CPU aren't exactly things I would dismiss into the "other than" category. It's kind of like saying of a super car, other than its 500 hp motor and gleaming, outrageously sexy body, what makes it better than my car?
    10-07-13 10:10 AM
  13. BerryWizard's Avatar
    1.3 front versus 2.0 front for Z30

    Posted via Harry
    Lolll

    Posted via CB10
    Terser Nori likes this.
    10-07-13 10:11 AM
  14. Saiga's Avatar
    Low end androids suck (those single core, low ram ones). Also an iphone 4 with a single core processor running ios6.1 (was not that bad with 4.1). Any os with low end processors (by todays standarts) are terrible to use.
    I quoted you, but I'm not really directing this comment just at you. It is for the dozen or so people I've seen claim that Android needs good specs to run. It is a funny myth that is easily proven as false.

    Exhibit A: The Google Nexus S

    The Samsung made, Google Nexus S was released on December 16, 2010. It launched with Gingerbread and is powered by a 1 GHz single-core ARM Cortex-A8 processor, a 200mhz, single-core GPU and 512mb of RAM.

    The Nexus S is much, much lower end than even the cheapest Android devices made today. Even low-end Android smart phones from 2011 are more powerful than the Nexus S. The Nexus S wasn't even close to being the most powerful Android smartphone when it launched back in 2010. Without question, the Nexus S has absolutely horrible hardware by today's standards.

    But guess what! The Nexus S has ran every single version of Android that has been made since its release date. Here is a video of it running Android 4.3 -



    That nearly 3 year old Nexus S sure runs the latest version of Android pretty well. It wouldn't be able to run BB10 at all that. The Nexus S doesn't have a dual-core processor and only has 512mb of RAM. So BlackBerry 10 would be a no-go.

    I just demostrated a 3 year old phone running the latest version of Android. Can you name any 3 year old smartphone that has the power to run BlackBerry 10? I know you can't, they simply didn't make smart phones that powerful back then.

    So since BlackBerry 10 is so efficient, and doesn't need high end hardware, why is the Q5 a dual-core phone? Why does the Q5 have 2GB of RAM? Why can't the PlayBook run BB10? The PlayBook clearly has much, much better hardware than the Nexus S. The PlayBook could effortlessly run Android 4.3, yet the PlayBook can't run the latest BlackBerry OS. Makes ya wonder don't it?

    I'm sure I've just wasted my time here and the faithful will still cling on to the whole "BlackBerry 10 is more efficient than Android" myth for as long as humanly possible, but people should know that I and a lot of other people laugh each time we see it said.
    10-07-13 10:13 AM
  15. iN8ter's Avatar
    Yes it is true that I would like a higher screen resolution. But I really like the Playbook's resolution and it is only 195ppi. So I'm sure that the Z30 will be just fine!

    The camera you mention seems the same, or perhaps worse than the Z30.

    The battery is smaller than the Z30 (BYO charging cable?)

    And the processor doesn't matter too much since Android bloatware slows things down. All the reports say that the Z30 is fast and smooth.

    Lastly, the price might be a bit lower, but not by much. I'm planning on waiting a month or two for the Z30's price to drop.

    All-in-all, this actually makes the Z30 look good!

    The issues are already known (average resolution, average camera, fewer apps) and there are some great strengths (BB10 is becoming more refined, super battery, focus on productivity)!
    Tablets are used differently than phones. Comparing its PPI to a phone and then saying the phone would be just fine has to be one of the dumbest things I've seen in defense of the low PPI screen on the Z30...
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    10-07-13 10:16 AM
  16. playbookster's Avatar
    My LG G2 would beg to differ, its blazing fast with ZERO lag.
    Give it a week

    Posted via CB10
    10-07-13 10:21 AM
  17. brucewayne's Avatar
    Android doesn't run well even on 2gb of ram...

    Posted via CB10
    Its apparent you have never used a modern Android device. My One has zero lag and its half a generation old now.

    Sent from the bat cave using CB forums
    Berry_Pink likes this.
    10-07-13 10:28 AM
  18. brucewayne's Avatar
    Give it a week

    Posted via CB10
    Had my One since release. Zero lag.

    Sent from the bat cave using CB forums
    raysgrumpy likes this.
    10-07-13 10:28 AM
  19. iN8ter's Avatar
    if they removed true multitasking from bb10 it could run on 512 ram. But that is a major feature with bb10, you dont need to close or suspend apps. Also BB10 does run on 1gb of ram but can only run 5 apps instead of 8 at a time.
    There's no way they'd be able to fit BB10 in a 512 device because the system boots up to using over 300MB and when coupled with what the GPU and other components reserve, that is almost the whole 512 MB by itself without an app running. There would be no room for running much of anything else. You're pipe dreaming...

    1GB is even a stretch as some apps can use well over 100 MB RAM (i.e. Browser). This is less of an issue with Android cause the system doesn't use nearly as much RAM as the BB10's OS (neither is this the case for Windows Phone which runs flawlessly on 512 MB never mind 1GB, and iOS which runs without issues on 1GB devices).

    We all seen the YouTube video and the stutter even when loading pretty light stock apps. A heavier third party app would easily caused performance issues. Not much you can do with a device like that.

    There are Android flagships from 2 years ago (Skyrocket, Xperia ion, Nitro HD, etc.) that got ICS/JB updates which run much better on lower specs (Old SoC, 1GB RAM) than BB10 could ever hope to.
    Saiga, Berry_Pink and Donvald like this.
    10-07-13 10:32 AM
  20. Wilsonia Goldens's Avatar
    Oh not to forget wasting battery power for no reason.

    Posted via CB10
    Agree! People don't grasp the concept of QNX or BB10 that it is a microkernel system. In Auto terms BB10 is a four cylinder that will runs rings around any souped up V8.
    DJM626 likes this.
    10-07-13 10:37 AM
  21. iN8ter's Avatar
    Good question. Let's see. Better front facing camera, stereo sound, better mics, bigger battery and a screen chosen for battery saving. I'll say it was designed around the use of video conference calling. Sooo perhaps more business communication oriented. Not as much media and entertainment oriented but with just enough specs to handle media decently enough. Both phones sound good but to me. I'm more of a communication type user so a Z30 would be a good option if I were to choose between the two. I can see the Z30 still falling in line with BlackBerry business strategy. Still lots of work to do so keep moving BlackBerry.
    You do realize that the MP in a FFC has nothing to do with the quality of video from that camera, right? The FFC does 720p, and that's been on Android devices since early-mid 2011.

    Speakers and Mics don't matter for Video Conferencing, as most people will not be doing that with phone Speakers and mics. They will likely use some some kind of headset or (for consumers) even ear buds with an inline mic/controls instead. This means the Mics are more useful for video and Voice Recording and the Speakers are better for playing media out of the phone (or ringtones/alerts) and for media most people will likely opt for some kind of headset or ear buds).

    This manufactured idea that BB designed a whole device around the idea of Video Conferencing - on a platform that lacks most decent (or decently performing) video conferencing options and the stock solution doesn't even support multi-party video conferencing... It just sounds dumb...

    The device will still be a terrible media consumption device because of the lack of apps.

    The device will still be a terrible media creation device because the camera is still worse than a GS3 and it's lacking in apps.

    It's a good business tool if you're on BES 10.

    That's about it.

    The Z30 is no more useful than a Z10. It's just bigger. That's all.

    EDIT: As an aside - The blind, clueless, hatred for all things not Blackberry here is hilarious. It seems no matter how many times you tell someone something is patently false, they'll always pop up in another thread and repeat it hoping no one notices... Mike Lazaridis and the QNX team are good engineers, but they cannot defy physics with their software. These foolish arguments in an attempt to "win" every thread has moved beyond hilarious these days...
    tack likes this.
    10-07-13 10:41 AM
  22. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Funny,

    The things that everyone complained about Android.... are now the problems of BB10.

    Granted I'm running a 10.2.0.1767 leak, but almost every app that requires android player has a pretty long lag time. From time to time the video player (app that I notice it with the most) gets stuck and won't rotate or allow a swipe up to close. And the Z10 is a JOKE when it comes to battery life. (I know that BB10.1 is more stable.... but it is also missing several key features. I bet if you took an new Android today and disabled every widget and notification to match the features of BB10.1.... they get three days battery)

    That said I've been a long time BB users and other than an old Palm Treo have never owned another smartphone. Now I am the guy everyone asks to "fix" stuff, so I've played with both iOS and Android... And I'll have to say that I really like how the UI on BB10 works and I think that if we had access to all the applications that the other platforms had and if the corporate CULTURE at BlackBerry would allow them to build better devices at competitive prices, BB would have had a shot. But it's always been my experience that at launch a BB device is good enough, then 6 months later you learn that good enough wasn't really good enough. That Z10 owners have missed out on an FM Radio and Mirror Cast, and that maybe it would benefit from just a little more power for running 10.2.... is just business as usual.
    jakie55 and tack like this.
    10-07-13 11:04 AM
  23. iN8ter's Avatar
    It runs fine on 2GB. I use a S3 and Z30 everyday and we all know how much "bloatware" the S3 has right. I even have more background services running at start up than the Z30 because of widgets and it works fine for me.Yes, I am even using TouchWiz when I could use nova launcher. Both devices boot up to have 1.1GB ram free. BB10 has hub to start up and S3 has widgets to start up. Again, making bad generalizations and fallacies without having the devices side by side needs to stop.
    This. It's even better when you Disable the extra apps (Uninstall Updates + Disable). I have all the preloaded apps I don't use disabled, so the only thing that loads on start up that is unnecessary is "Backup+" and "Voicemail."

    Since I have Verizon Login and Sync Services disabled, they do literally nothing and only take up 4.0 and 5.0 MB or RAM each, which is ignorable.

    678.5 MB RAM used when I take out the Settings and Task Manager app (which I loaded use to view this stuff).
    276.2 MB RAM used by CACHED Processes
    ---------------------
    402.3 MB RAM used by active services in the device.

    This is why Android can be loaded, easily, on devices that use 1GB RAM. That 402 includes things like a 44 FB Process, BTW.

    Don't want, need, or use an app. Uninstall or disable it, especially if you note it running a service (Google Play Music and Magazines is good for that).

    1. Bloatware hasn't been an issue on Android since ICS. As I stated above. Everything can be disabled (even many of Google or the OEM's own apps) and those that cannot are too small to even bother worrying about them.

    2. Teaching someone how to disabled some apps is much easier than teaching them how to use the gesture based navigate on BB10, Lol.

    3. TouchWiz is fine. I understand TW 3.0 (OG Galaxy S) was absolutely terrible, but since the GS2 it has never really been much of an issue. TouchWiz doesn't even use more than about 60-70MB of RAM on the GS3, which is less than the Browser uses after you load 1-3 Tabs... When you are in an app, usually the device will Cache TouchWiz so it isn't like TW is responsible for degrading your app performance. Talk to the app developer about that.

    A lot of Android devs use tricks to do things on the platform, like force their app into the foreground even when not in use, etc. Google has actually started cracking down on that. Sometimes, the apps you load on your device have unforeseen consequences. I don't tend to use apps that aren't made by reputable developers, so I tend to avoid much of the issues people here impose on themselves...

    4. Widgets are the main cause for stuttering when scrolling through home screens on Android. Not really much you can do about that. Don't use them if you don't need them. Most of them poll for data updates and aren't even updated via PUSH Notifications, so there is - in MY opinion - little benefit to using Widgets now that most Android devices have quick toggles in the notification bar.

    Replace those Widgets with app icons and there is no such stutter. You don't even need the Google Search Widgets on a Galaxy S device since even devices without a Search Hard Key have Menu Long pressed mapped to search :-)
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 10-07-13 at 11:24 AM.
    10-07-13 11:14 AM
  24. qcbarry25's Avatar
    Absolutely! Somewhere along the line people will begin to ask themselves why they have such high specs, yet the lag persists. Case in point the S3 vs S4, I use an S3 as my entertainment and second mobile device next to my Q10, I can't stand the way it lags, I was planning to go for the S4, guess what? Exactly the same thing, lag like heck!
    since you got q10 and s3. why don't you make a quick video of showing s3 lag like hell? shouldn't be hard since you can just use your q10 to record it. the way you are talking it should be very easy to show how laggy it is.

    also, since you are at it can you show how laggy the s4 is, please make a recording of that also.

    i got the s4 and i don't remember it lagging like hell. it is still pretty smooth.

    we will be waiting for the video.
    Berry_Pink and Donvald like this.
    10-07-13 11:16 AM
  25. lawguyman's Avatar
    Android doesn't run well even on 2gb of ram...

    Posted via CB10
    Your information is old and outdated and represents the kind of rationalizing that let BlackBerry ignore competition for years.

    It is sad but we all have to think about using something other than a BlackBerry: whether now or six months from now.

    Posted via CB10
    Donvald likes this.
    10-07-13 11:16 AM
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