08-10-13 11:49 AM
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  1. bekkay's Avatar
    Don't forget it will need a 4000 mAh battery.
    How did you come to this conclusion? A newer SoC does not automatically imply more power consumption.
    07-30-13 06:26 PM
  2. bekkay's Avatar
    On par with the current S5? 4 GB of RAM? What do you think they're putting in these android phones buddy?

    I think I get it. Inferior like people perceive the iPhone5 to be and the iPhone5S will be with its "low resolution" screen and 1 or 2 GB of rumored RAM... The spec argument makes total sense now...

    Look for an argument to be valid, it has to hold true EVERYWHERE. If not, you have to toss it out because you're not looking at all of the variables. A lot of you spec guys are being really narrow minded. Look at every possibility, then make your argument. The specs argument as it stands is invalid. Let it go already.

    The make or break variable is the cost here. I'm sure even you spec-heads will agree. The cost should be lower not because it's not a "high end" phone. It is a high end phone. The cost should be lower because it's made by Blackberry. It's time to swallow the pride.

    Price the A10 at $150 on contract and you have yourself a winner, relatively speaking.
    This is a false analogy claim, which goes like this:
    - iPhone 5 is selling regardless of relatively lower specs, hence, specs don't matter
    - Specs don't matter for the iPhone, they won't matter for the A10.

    The problem with this analogy is that you think that BB10 phones and the iPhone are the same with regard to differentiation. They are indeed differentiated from Android phones, but are they equally valuably differentiated?
    - Does BlackBerry have the same brand perception and marketing prowess as Apple?
    - Does Blackberry have the same ecosystem as iOS?
    - Does BlackBerry have the same large user base as Apple?
    - etc.
    imcurved and szlevi like this.
    07-30-13 06:36 PM
  3. Zedi Master's Avatar
    How did you come to this conclusion? A newer SoC does not automatically imply more power consumption.
    5.5"
    1080p



    Posted via CB10
    07-30-13 10:00 PM
  4. LWKING's Avatar
    This is a false analogy claim, which goes like this:
    - iPhone 5 is selling regardless of relatively lower specs, hence, specs don't matter
    - Specs don't matter for the iPhone, they won't matter for the A10.

    The problem with this analogy is that you think that BB10 phones and the iPhone are the same with regard to differentiation. They are indeed differentiated from Android phones, but are they equally valuably differentiated?
    - Does BlackBerry have the same brand perception and marketing prowess as Apple?
    - Does Blackberry have the same ecosystem as iOS?
    - Does BlackBerry have the same large user base as Apple?
    - etc.
    My analogy holds. You reference specs as a selling point. I was addressing it from an experience perspective. Specs matter to a certain point. That point is different for Android, Windows Phone, iOS, and BB10. Once the optimal experience for a certain OS is reached, specs don't really matter that much. All things equal, specs matter. Hence the huge spec civil war going on between Android devices. No other OS is fighting that war, so why should Blackberry? Everybody here is so eager for them to get involved when it's just a waste of resources.

    Experience. I think that's the selling point. The marketing and ecosystem help make up the Apple experience. With the random reboots, and other quirks, the BB10 experience thus far has not been satisfactory until recently.

    The BB10 experience is still being improved and will continue to be with updates. With the specs that the A10 is rumored to have, the experience will be great on 10.2. You are correct that Blackberry doesn't have all of these things that Apple does, this is why it should be priced lower than the next iPhone. Simply beefing it up and pricing it similarly won't have that much of an effect on sales imo. Blackberry can't win the spec war even if they had the same specs as the best Android phone out there. The reviews will sound the like, "Blackberry really put their best foot forward with the A10. The OS is much more polished and the Android emulator is great, but we can't find any compelling reason to recommend it over a similarly specced Android device with its vast app selection."

    If you lower the price, you give them a reason to recommend the phone. I pray that they Blackberry does because now the most important thing they need to do is to get noticed in the US.

    nice copy and paste btw
    bekkay likes this.
    07-31-13 03:41 AM
  5. greggebhardt's Avatar
    That part is up to the world renowned Blackberry marketing. They're gonna have to deliver more than they ever have in the past. Do we think they can do it?
    From what I have seen they are incapable to do such a thing. They seem paralyzed at the wheel of a ship heading for the falls!
    07-31-13 05:15 AM
  6. Sporatic's Avatar
    Bring me a white Z15 running BB10.3 as a true upgrade over the Z10 and I'll be set. It'll be the perfect phone. I'm due for an upgrade, but Idk if I can wait that long
    What makes the combination of a non existent device and non existent software so appealing to you?
    07-31-13 06:17 AM
  7. LWKING's Avatar
    What makes the combination of a non existent device and non existent software so appealing to you?
    A Z10 successor is the perfect option for me. I have Sprint and I've wanted the white Z10 since the very beginning.The A10 is too big for me. Oh, and I have a Bold 9650.
    It's been a rough ride

    From what I have seen they are incapable to do such a thing. They seem paralyzed at the wheel of a ship heading for the falls!
    It hurts to say it, but I have to agree. If I knew they were capable, then I'd suck it up and hold out for the A10. Im worried about the security of the Blackberry position in the US. Because of that, I'll be getting the Galaxy S4 next week. http://www.eaglesrant.com/some-users...15490/ed-marsh
    Android lag here I come!
    07-31-13 12:34 PM
  8. bekkay's Avatar
    My analogy holds. You reference specs as a selling point. I was addressing it from an experience perspective. Specs matter to a certain point. That point is different for Android, Windows Phone, iOS, and BB10. Once the optimal experience for a certain OS is reached, specs don't really matter that much. All things equal, specs matter. Hence the huge spec civil war going on between Android devices. No other OS is fighting that war, so why should Blackberry? Everybody here is so eager for them to get involved when it's just a waste of resources.

    Experience. I think that's the selling point. The marketing and ecosystem help make up the Apple experience. With the random reboots, and other quirks, the BB10 experience thus far has not been satisfactory until recently.

    The BB10 experience is still being improved and will continue to be with updates. With the specs that the A10 is rumored to have, the experience will be great on 10.2. You are correct that Blackberry doesn't have all of these things that Apple does, this is why it should be priced lower than the next iPhone. Simply beefing it up and pricing it similarly won't have that much of an effect on sales imo. Blackberry can't win the spec war even if they had the same specs as the best Android phone out there. The reviews will sound the like, "Blackberry really put their best foot forward with the A10. The OS is much more polished and the Android emulator is great, but we can't find any compelling reason to recommend it over a similarly specced Android device with its vast app selection."

    If you lower the price, you give them a reason to recommend the phone. I pray that they Blackberry does because now the most important thing they need to do is to get noticed in the US.

    nice copy and paste btw
    Agree. But smoothness (which, by the way not all Android phones are deprived of) is far from being the only factor that defines experience.

    I've said this before and will say it again, if the A10 is not priced aggressively, there are indeed very few reasons to buy it over the competition, and many reasons not to buy. Unless you are a BBRY fan, of course.

    PS. I am not sure what I copied and pasted. Can you elaborate?
    kbz1960 and LWKING like this.
    07-31-13 02:10 PM
  9. pillswoj's Avatar
    My analogy holds. You reference specs as a selling point. I was addressing it from an experience perspective. Specs matter to a certain point. That point is different for Android, Windows Phone, iOS, and BB10. Once the optimal experience for a certain OS is reached, specs don't really matter that much. All things equal, specs matter. Hence the huge spec civil war going on between Android devices. No other OS is fighting that war, so why should Blackberry? Everybody here is so eager for them to get involved when it's just a waste of resources.

    Experience. I think that's the selling point. The marketing and ecosystem help make up the Apple experience. With the random reboots, and other quirks, the BB10 experience thus far has not been satisfactory until recently.

    The BB10 experience is still being improved and will continue to be with updates. With the specs that the A10 is rumored to have, the experience will be great on 10.2. You are correct that Blackberry doesn't have all of these things that Apple does, this is why it should be priced lower than the next iPhone. Simply beefing it up and pricing it similarly won't have that much of an effect on sales imo. Blackberry can't win the spec war even if they had the same specs as the best Android phone out there. The reviews will sound the like, "Blackberry really put their best foot forward with the A10. The OS is much more polished and the Android emulator is great, but we can't find any compelling reason to recommend it over a similarly specced Android device with its vast app selection."

    If you lower the price, you give them a reason to recommend the phone. I pray that they Blackberry does because now the most important thing they need to do is to get noticed in the US.

    nice copy and paste btw
    You are right that BB does not have to be in a spec war with Android, they do however have to show growth in their own specs. TH announced to the world that BB10 WILL NOT run on a 1 Ghz Dual Core with 1 GB Ram, if 2 GB is the minimum ram required would it not be a good idea to have more then that on your latest phone? Is it not foreseeable that apps may come that will require larger amounts of ram then current? If BB10 is really multitasking all these things in the background instead of suspending them (which is being touted as the major benefit of BB10) then would quad cores not ensure this remains smooth especially if more CPU intensive apps come along?

    The specs need to advance because the software being used will definitely advance. The A10 may provide a fine user experience in the Fall of 2013 but BB needs to make sure it will continue to provide that same experience in the Fall of 2015. This is where BB has traditionally failed with their devices, they run fine when launch but 6 month later are obsolete.
    07-31-13 03:26 PM
  10. icedkermit's Avatar
    I agree with your comments on the experience however the sales staff and carrier support are unfortunately more important. For these people to buy into the A10 and recommend it to customers instead of an iPhone or S5, BlackBerry needs to give them several reasons. Price is one. Experience is another. The simplest however are the specs. Additionally, getting app developers to buy into BB10 is crucial. This goes to BlackBerry's overall image problem. Best in class specs (at a competitive price) is one of the easiest ways for them to improve this. Combined with a half decent ad campaign and maybe a few more marque apps would do wonders for the A10.
    07-31-13 03:39 PM
  11. Blacklatino's Avatar
    My goodness, is there any such thing as perfect mobile device? All a lot of you guys do is complain. BB10 is still a very young platform and naturally it will take some time to iron out the "wrinkles " or bugs.
    Definitely any thing (appliances, machines, computers etc) and yes including BB10 that gets overloaded will not perform efficiently. Your BB10 will definitely lag if you trying to delete a whole lot of things at once.
    My iPad (new) lags when it's updating many apps simultaneously.

    Posted via CB10
    No....IMO, there is no perfect smartphone. But, to make matters worse, BlackBerry isn't grasping the fact that they are still on the road to recovery while facing the challenge of negative brand recognition(with a new platform and BlackBerries) in todays' market.........otherwise, better sales. Also, very few(if any) CS at any carrier is pushing for ppl to buy a BlackBerry due to lack of training and they can't answer a customers simple question- "why should I switch" to a new BlackBerry from my current smartphone? Again, outside of this site, BlackBerry get a lukewarm reception or a smirk/giggle when mentioned. That's not our fault on here. BlackBerry needs to refocus on doing "whatever" it takes to 1/ survive and 2/ compete or be content on being a little fish in a big pond. May not matter to all of us, but, for BlackBerry (not CrackBerry)to regain old and attract new consumers, specs and apps matter. Reality is I have an awesome Z10. Best BlackBerry I've owned as confirmed numerous times by others here on CrackBerry. Outside of here- it's selling in slow-motion and time is not on BlackBerries side. That's not a complaint. Just an observation.
    07-31-13 04:02 PM
  12. LWKING's Avatar
    I agree with your comments on the experience however the sales staff and carrier support are unfortunately more important. For these people to buy into the A10 and recommend it to customers instead of an iPhone or S5, BlackBerry needs to give them several reasons. Price is one. Experience is another. The simplest however are the specs. Additionally, getting app developers to buy into BB10 is crucial. This goes to BlackBerry's overall image problem. Best in class specs (at a competitive price) is one of the easiest ways for them to improve this. Combined with a half decent ad campaign and maybe a few more marque apps would do wonders for the A10.
    So you think they should pull a Nokia/Windows Phone 8 and sell a high end phone for almost nothing? I wouldn't be against it because I love a great deal as much as the next guy. I'm just not sure if its necessary. Maybe it is. Agreed on the ad campaign and developer support.

    Agree. But smoothness (which, by the way not all Android phones are deprived of) is far from being the only factor that defines experience.

    I've said this before and will say it again, if the A10 is not priced aggressively, there are indeed very few reasons to buy it over the competition, and many reasons not to buy. Unless you are a BBRY fan, of course.

    PS. I am not sure what I copied and pasted. Can you elaborate?
    Agreed, and I swear I saw you post that response in another thread that's all. No biggie. It was a good response.

    You are right that BB does not have to be in a spec war with Android, they do however have to show growth in their own specs. TH announced to the world that BB10 WILL NOT run on a 1 Ghz Dual Core with 1 GB Ram, if 2 GB is the minimum ram required would it not be a good idea to have more then that on your latest phone? Is it not foreseeable that apps may come that will require larger amounts of ram then current? If BB10 is really multitasking all these things in the background instead of suspending them (which is being touted as the major benefit of BB10) then would quad cores not ensure this remains smooth especially if more CPU intensive apps come along?

    The specs need to advance because the software being used will definitely advance. The A10 may provide a fine user experience in the Fall of 2013 but BB needs to make sure it will continue to provide that same experience in the Fall of 2015. This is where BB has traditionally failed with their devices, they run fine when launch but 6 month later are obsolete.
    The answer to your questions are yes, it would be a good idea. We will see quad cores and additional RAM in our BB10 phones. They just don't think it's time for it yet. Blackberry is doing some testing with the Snapdragon 800 now so it's in the works. Also keep in mind that BB10 is still very young. If it was as old and optimized as iOS or Android, then I'd agree whole-heartedly for aggressive future proofing. Any further updates to those OS's will be minor performance wise. However, I'm not sure how BB10 will operate after a few years of optimization updates. QNX is a different beast with much more upside potential.
    07-31-13 05:01 PM
  13. nademon's Avatar
    hmm sure that poster said zoom and scrolling, as long as the webpage is fully loaded then the data network shouldn't make a difference.

    anyways, wanna see lag? use pretty much any android app. bear in mind that the runtime is shipped inside BB10, so to the average customer its a app running on a BlackBerry, not a android port running on a android runtime inside a different OS.
    that also leads me to wonder, if increased specs solved the speed issues in android, then wouldn't increased specs in a BB10 phone help the android runtime if nothing else at all? im not even gonna make a comment either way as I don't have the answer, but its a worthy question I feel.

    either way, specs should run parallel to prices, will I be ok with a 720p screen on the A10 for example and a dual core? sure, as long as the price isn't trying to match with a quad core 1080p screen device. you wouldn't pay the same for a pc with lower specs, so why should you on a phone?
    Just my experience, using the 10.2 leak made a massive difference in android app performance. Skype, flipboard, Google maps all run fast and a lot smoother than the 10.1 install ran them.

    However, I'm disappointed that a flagship BlackBerry device is most likely not shipping with more ram, upgraded camera sensor/lense, 1080p screen, and a very big deal to me, removable battery. I'm not sure the A10 would necessisarily need those increased specs to perform well, but for marketing and future-proofing they would be highly valuable. Not to mention, this is the fabled "Aristo" device that is supposed to be cutting edge.

    I've been looking forward to the A10 for some time and felt a little let down based on the leaked specs. I've seen the 2 videos of the A10 with both 4 and 5 rows of icons, which I'm hoping gives us a faint possibility of increased specs before release.

    It's really frustrating at times trying to understand the logic being implemented at BlackBerry, but I'm no CEO so I'm not in a place to overly criticize their decisions. I'm as die hard a BlackBerry user as you'll find so I'm hoping BlackBerry is paying attention to the sentiments of their most loyal customers and does something in line with our expectations.

    Just my 2 cents.

    P.S. I fully plan on trying out the A10...and if it performs well, specs be damned, I'm buying one!

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by nademon; 07-31-13 at 06:06 PM.
    07-31-13 05:17 PM
  14. szlevi's Avatar
    5.5"
    1080p



    Posted via CB10
    Typical useless-clueless reply - a newer SoC always shows better watt/performance ratio, not worse and even prev-gen SD 4 Prp didn't warrant such a beast for battery.

    Sent from my LT30p using CB Forums mobile app
    bekkay likes this.
    07-31-13 11:03 PM
  15. bekkay's Avatar
    Typical useless-clueless reply - a newer SoC always shows better watt/performance ratio, not worse and even prev-gen SD 4 Prp didn't warrant such a beast for battery.

    Sent from my LT30p using CB Forums mobile app
    He probably was referring to the increase in the screen diagonal size and the increase of power consumption due to the larger area to backlight.

    But as I said earlier, I agree, with modern SoCs, the increased in the power draw from the GPU from the resolution increase would probably be negligible at best (unless you choose to play graphics intensive games at 1080p). Couple that with better power efficiency of the newer SoCs, and the argument that 1080p will noticeably affect the battery life becomes moot.
    07-31-13 11:29 PM
  16. LWKING's Avatar
    In case you guys haven't seen it here's a video of the Z10 running an early build of 10.2

    The Z10 will perform even better when this update is officially released. We can expect the A10 to perform even better still. I'm curious to see the updated Android runtime in action. I hear that it's much better than the current.
    bekkay likes this.
    08-02-13 03:58 AM
  17. MisterMe11's Avatar
    I haven't been very positive on the Aristo's specs

    It's interesting, though, that Engadget was relatively gentle on the Moto X in their preview. They mentioned shortfalls compared to leading phones but didn't hammer them for it, because I think they like the customization angle.

    This is consistent with the people on the forum here who have been saying that Blackberry needs a unique selling point to get past the inevitable spec comparisons and raise the interest level of reviewers and sales people.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    08-02-13 05:43 PM
  18. knownastron's Avatar
    There needs to be a separation between specs for marketing/sales purposes and specs for performance purposes.

    Specs would (in theory) help the marketing and sales campaign. I don't thin anyone can argue that. People want more, especially when compared side-by-side with the S4 for example that has great specs.

    But the matter of specs for performances, that's a murkier subject. From my experience, the specs for the Z10/Q10 run BB10 as well as you need it to. It's the idea of "is it enough." Enough is the key word here. Another poster made a comparison of specs to a twin turbo diesel engine in his truck and saying he needs that power to perform the job.

    Now using that analogy, the Z10/Q10 specs IS the twin turbo diesel engine. The current specs are adequate for the job. Increasing them I would liken to putting a 8 litre V12 in the aforementioned truck. Improvement in power, sure, but is it absolutely necessary? No, and it has its other disadvantages.

    From my understanding the Z30 is going to get a slight spec upgrade, which is great and probably necessary from a marketing/sales point of view. But asking for a quad core for example would be the 8 litre V12...
    Last edited by knownastron; 08-03-13 at 09:08 PM.
    08-03-13 08:54 PM
  19. szlevi's Avatar
    Ever since the old PPC/Mac vs x86/PC debates in the 90s when someone brings up a car analogy I immediately stop reading - it's always a sure sign of not having a clue.
    08-08-13 02:16 PM
  20. dr0800's Avatar
    I'm afraid you cannot second guess the consumer smartphone market. If it was that Simple the IPhone would not have remained the standard setting phone.
    Samsung has managed to compete on the back of plagerising Apple Intellectual property.
    BlackBerry seem to be adopting a strategy of building up a portfolio of BB10 phones rather than trying to market a Jesus phone as HTC have done. That phone has effectively sunk HTC as a company.
    08-10-13 11:49 AM
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