08-10-13 11:49 AM
70 123
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  1. StutterStep's Avatar
    So I took the time to post the challenge I asked for to show how laggy the z10 is.. which of course it is not.
    A counter video coming up hopefully this week. Will be running a fresh load of 10.1.4687 with some apps installed. Yes, browsing zoom performance and scrolling will be shown as it's a fair test
    07-28-13 08:39 PM
  2. lynxs_claw's Avatar
    Why isn't your hub working????
    Just didn't want to videotaped all my personal emails, texts, etc.

    So I filtered it voicemail

    Posted via CB10 on my Z10
    07-28-13 08:39 PM
  3. lynxs_claw's Avatar
    3rd time I've said this. BlackBerry has done more to prove that specs matter than anyone else.

    No legacy devices can run bb10
    Pb can't run bb10
    No legacy devices could run bb7
    2 (?) devices were able to upgrade from bb5 to bb6.

    2gb is the minimum to run bb10.
    I don't think your examples are relevant to BB10 running on their current hardware.

    Hardware needs to match the software. The hardware that you mentioned don't come close to running to bb10. I could say the opposite. My i7 Intel processor using 8 gb ram with high end Nvidia video card gives way more than enough specs to run DOS. If DOS programs was all I was running would I need a faster computer? I know I'm using an extreme here but I'm trying to make a point.

    Higher specs (more power requirements in general) hurts the battery. You have to give some credit to the operating system if it significantly helps the necessary hardware to match the software requirements.

    Posted via CB10 on my Z10
    Last edited by lynxs_claw; 07-28-13 at 09:22 PM.
    07-28-13 08:54 PM
  4. lynxs_claw's Avatar
    A counter video coming up hopefully this week. Will be running a fresh load of 10.1.4687 with some apps installed. Yes, browsing zoom performance and scrolling will be shown as it's a fair test
    Great,

    Keep in mind, as I mentioned before, I hope your lag examples relate directly to processes in which higher specs like cpu and gpu can affect these processes. Again, processes that are affected by the transfer of network data wirelessly are not affected significantly by higher ended cpus, gpu and bigger memory.

    Posted via CB10 on my Z10
    07-28-13 09:01 PM
  5. BBThemes's Avatar
    Great,

    Keep in mind, as I mentioned before, I hope your lag examples relate directly to processes in which higher specs like cpu and gpu can affect these processes. Again, processes that are affected by the transfer of network data wirelessly are not affected significantly by higher ended cpus, gpu and bigger memory.

    Posted via CB10 on my Z10
    hmm sure that poster said zoom and scrolling, as long as the webpage is fully loaded then the data network shouldn't make a difference.

    anyways, wanna see lag? use pretty much any android app. bear in mind that the runtime is shipped inside BB10, so to the average customer its a app running on a BlackBerry, not a android port running on a android runtime inside a different OS.
    that also leads me to wonder, if increased specs solved the speed issues in android, then wouldn't increased specs in a BB10 phone help the android runtime if nothing else at all? im not even gonna make a comment either way as I don't have the answer, but its a worthy question I feel.

    either way, specs should run parallel to prices, will I be ok with a 720p screen on the A10 for example and a dual core? sure, as long as the price isn't trying to match with a quad core 1080p screen device. you wouldn't pay the same for a pc with lower specs, so why should you on a phone?
    07-28-13 09:51 PM
  6. kfh227's Avatar
    The one thing that will make Android fanboys look towards the A10 is if it has the snapdragon 800 quad core in it along with 4 GB of memory. PERIOD. I don't even think GPU matters one bit but I think the snapdragon has one anyway.

    Sorry, people in the USA look at specs. And damn it, get netflix and Pandora on there along with a WiFi Direct/multicast device!!!!!
    07-28-13 09:52 PM
  7. wtrmlnjuc's Avatar
    The one thing that will make Android fanboys look towards the A10 is if it has the snapdragon 800 quad core in it along with 4 GB of memory. PERIOD. I don't even think GPU matters one bit but I think the snapdragon has one anyway.

    Sorry, people in the USA look at specs. And damn it, get netflix and Pandora on there along with a WiFi Direct/multicast device!!!!!
    It will definitely need at least a quad core snapdragon 600/800, 1080p but 4GB of RAM is still pretty over the top. The best android smartphones have 2GB of RAM and they don't really seem to require much if any more now.
    07-28-13 09:56 PM
  8. BBThemes's Avatar
    but 4GB of RAM is still pretty over the top. The best android smartphones have 2GB of RAM and they don't really seem to require much if any more now.
    the current rumours put late 2013 android devices at 3Gb RAM, but opf course they are simply rumours, but that's what the A10 will have to compete against, not the current devices out there, that's what the Z10 is competeing against. Also its worth noting a lot of android devices have started going for high mp cameras and high quality units (see htc ultrapixel). while I wouldn't personally buy a phone based on its camera, it is important to some people.
    07-28-13 10:19 PM
  9. LWKING's Avatar
    Hey guys, guess what?

    All phones lag.

    All computers lag.

    Some lag more than others, but you can make anything lag if you want to. The idea is to prevent lag under normal use, something that we're seeing from just about all of the flagships at the moment.

    Instead of saying specs don't matter, what you should be saying is that the gains from improved specs are quickly diminishing. They're becoming less and less cost effective. Next gen phones will play an experience game. Mark my words
    howarmat and Zedi Master like this.
    07-29-13 02:54 PM
  10. Harley Kid's Avatar
    you wouldn't pay the same for a pc with lower specs, so why should you on a phone?
    Couldn't agree more! The example I use with others is my truck. DONT expect me to spend the same amount for a small Ranger truck that isn't sporting a twin turbo diesel when I need to work! I need the "power" in order to get a truck load of materials (data) and a 30' trailer (tools and specs) to the job site in the mountains. If you (BBRY) cant provide me with a reliable work tool (device), I WILL spend my money on a bigger more powerful tool that WILL! Brand loyalty be damned ... I demand performance and reliability ... And I personally don't care who provides it so long as I get it!
    lnichols likes this.
    07-29-13 03:30 PM
  11. icedkermit's Avatar
    BlackBerry has a huge image problem. For those of you who argue people do not care about specs - you couldn't be more wrong. Most people don't understand what they mean, fewer even can tell the difference between 1080p and 720p, however, when faced with the choice of A or B, people with choose whatever is perceived to be better. Furthermore, the sales staff at your AT&T's, Verizon's etc, the people BlackBerry should really be focusing on, need to buy into what BlackBerry is selling. If they don't, the A10 will be a repeat of the Z10 and that is a sales failure. A very easy way to help sell the A10, is to give it best in class specs - 1080p resolution, 4gb of RAM, quad core and a mid-teen MP camera. Anything below this puts it on par with the current S5 and will therefore be perceived to be inferior and it will not sell. Disagree all you want, the people who end up losing are the ones who want BlackBerry to succeed.
    07-29-13 03:40 PM
  12. Zedi Master's Avatar
    So let me get this right.

    If the A10 comes with a quad-core 1.8 GHZ processor, 3+ GB RAM, 32 GB on board storage, and a 1080p 5.5" screen, everyone will buy it?

    Even though the price point will be ~$1000 dollars? Or maybe $399 on contract?

    Don't forget it will need a 4000 mAh battery.

    Me, I think everyone would start complaining the cost was too high.


    Posted via CB10
    lynxs_claw likes this.
    07-30-13 02:07 AM
  13. LWKING's Avatar
    BlackBerry has a huge image problem. For those of you who argue people do not care about specs - you couldn't be more wrong. Most people don't understand what they mean, fewer even can tell the difference between 1080p and 720p, however, when faced with the choice of A or B, people with choose whatever is perceived to be better. Furthermore, the sales staff at your AT&T's, Verizon's etc, the people BlackBerry should really be focusing on, need to buy into what BlackBerry is selling. If they don't, the A10 will be a repeat of the Z10 and that is a sales failure. A very easy way to help sell the A10, is to give it best in class specs - 1080p resolution, 4gb of RAM, quad core and a mid-teen MP camera. Anything below this puts it on par with the current S5 and will therefore be perceived to be inferior and it will not sell. Disagree all you want, the people who end up losing are the ones who want BlackBerry to succeed.
    On par with the current S5? 4 GB of RAM? What do you think they're putting in these android phones buddy?

    I think I get it. Inferior like people perceive the iPhone5 to be and the iPhone5S will be with its "low resolution" screen and 1 or 2 GB of rumored RAM... The spec argument makes total sense now...

    Look for an argument to be valid, it has to hold true EVERYWHERE. If not, you have to toss it out because you're not looking at all of the variables. A lot of you spec guys are being really narrow minded. Look at every possibility, then make your argument. The specs argument as it stands is invalid. Let it go already.

    The make or break variable is the cost here. I'm sure even you spec-heads will agree. The cost should be lower not because it's not a "high end" phone. It is a high end phone. The cost should be lower because it's made by Blackberry. It's time to swallow the pride.

    Price the A10 at $150 on contract and you have yourself a winner, relatively speaking.
    07-30-13 10:22 AM
  14. icedkermit's Avatar
    I agree with your cost point, to a point. BlackBerry failed big time with the Z10 because of that. However, if you're launching what is supposed to be your flagship phone and it's at best on par or slightly worse than the competition, there's no point.

    If you track their financials, BlackBerry used to sell over 12 million phones per quarter. They're now selling less than 7. The subscriber base is going to fall off a cliff very soon, meaning service revenue is going to fall off a cliff and that nice big cash balance will disappear very quickly. Their primary focus needs to be selling units, at a slight loss if they have to just to maintain the base. The problem with the 70 million users is that most are old bb7. For developers they need a much bigger bb10 base to justify spending time/money on apps.

    So my original point is that this so called flagship phone needs to sell like crazy. For this to happen blackberry needs to improve their image. The simplest way is to have best in class specs. Marketing, app development and carrier support are also important but made much easier when its the best phone.

    Regarding cost, as I mentioned above, I don't care if they breakeven on this phone. They need to focus on bb10 installed base.



    Posted via CB10
    07-30-13 12:30 PM
  15. LWKING's Avatar
    I agree with your cost point, to a point. BlackBerry failed big time with the Z10 because of that. However, if you're launching what is supposed to be your flagship phone and it's at best on par or slightly worse than the competition, there's no point.

    If you track their financials, BlackBerry used to sell over 12 million phones per quarter. They're now selling less than 7. The subscriber base is going to fall off a cliff very soon, meaning service revenue is going to fall off a cliff and that nice big cash balance will disappear very quickly. Their primary focus needs to be selling units, at a slight loss if they have to just to maintain the base. The problem with the 70 million users is that most are old bb7. For developers they need a much bigger bb10 base to justify spending time/money on apps.

    So my original point is that this so called flagship phone needs to sell like crazy. For this to happen blackberry needs to improve their image. The simplest way is to have best in class specs. Marketing, app development and carrier support are also important but made much easier when its the best phone.

    Regarding cost, as I mentioned above, I don't care if they breakeven on this phone. They need to focus on bb10 installed base.



    Posted via CB10
    And here's my point. I don't think the A10 is supposed to be a flagship phone. I don't believe Blackberry is in it for the flagships. What I mean is that the A10 is not supposed to replace the Z10. It's more of a complement. The A10 reaches to an entirely different market.e With the Q10, A10, Z10 and the mid range counterparts, Blackberry covers all of the bases. The next Z10 "flagship" will probably release around January sometime. That's my theory anyways.

    Take a look at BB10 now and BB10 then. Why would they market an experience that still needed its kinks worked out? i.e. random reboots. Verizon and ATT JUST now got 10.1. I've got a hunch we'll see some more aggressive marketing with the introduction of 10.2. It'll have an updated Android player, more core apps, and a more polished experience overall.

    Here's another point; the A10 won't sell like crazy. The market for 5in phones is still smaller than the 4.2-4.7 market. It could sell more. but it should sell less than the Z10.

    ***** Just realized that the Q5 is an R-series phone. Since that's the case, I have no idea what Blackberry is doing. I just hope they don't screw this up...

    I think they should be doing this

    Mid Tier 2013
    Q5
    Z5
    A5

    High Tier 2013
    Z10
    Q10
    A10

    Mid Tier 2014
    Z10
    Q10
    A10

    High Tier 2014
    Z15
    Q15
    A15

    etc... but hey, who knows
    Last edited by LWKING; 07-30-13 at 02:24 PM.
    07-30-13 12:50 PM
  16. szlevi's Avatar
    This thread feels like some people standing in front of a mirror and yelling their nonsensical argument, hoping to convince themselves...


    ...anyone thinking A10 can sell alongside the Z10 with the same specs and make any difference is clearly clueless. If you think it does not have to make a difference eg it merely needs to "compliment" (sic!) it then you are downright delusional about BB's position and the market in general.
    wtrmlnjuc likes this.
    07-30-13 01:34 PM
  17. wtrmlnjuc's Avatar
    So let me get this right.

    If the A10 comes with a quad-core 1.8 GHZ processor, 3+ GB RAM, 32 GB on board storage, and a 1080p 5.5" screen, everyone will buy it?

    Even though the price point will be ~$1000 dollars? Or maybe $399 on contract?

    Don't forget it will need a 4000 mAh battery.

    Me, I think everyone would start complaining the cost was too high.

    Posted via CB10
    The price will be closer to the ~$600 that the S4 and One are at right now with nearly the same specs save the extra 1GB of RAM.
    07-30-13 01:38 PM
  18. imcurved's Avatar
    BlackBerry can't afford to put out less. They need to put out MORE for LESS. They are in a hole, Apple and Google aren't.
    Please I repeat please stop taking the words out of my mouth.
    07-30-13 02:09 PM
  19. LWKING's Avatar
    This thread feels like some people standing in front of a mirror and yelling their nonsensical argument, hoping to convince themselves...


    ...anyone thinking A10 can sell alongside the Z10 with the same specs and make any difference is clearly clueless. If you think it does not have to make a difference eg it merely needs to "compliment" (sic!) it then you are downright delusional about BB's position and the market in general.
    This guy again
    07-30-13 02:12 PM
  20. LWKING's Avatar
    The price will be closer to the ~$600 that the S4 and One are at right now with nearly the same specs save the extra 1GB of RAM.
    The S4 and One have 2GB of RAM, just like the Z10, Q10, and A10 will have
    07-30-13 02:15 PM
  21. greggebhardt's Avatar
    I am sorry but I think the A10 is way too little and too late.

    Most old Blackberry users moved on long time ago and simply have no interest in the brand.

    The A10 is not going to have them waiting in lines to get one.

    I know many here will hate this but it is the truth.
    07-30-13 02:22 PM
  22. LWKING's Avatar
    I am sorry but I think the A10 is way too little and too late.

    Most old Blackberry users moved on long time ago and simply have no interest in the brand.

    The A10 is not going to have them waiting in lines to get one.

    I know many here will hate this but it is the truth.
    That part is up to the world renowned Blackberry marketing. They're gonna have to deliver more than they ever have in the past. Do we think they can do it?
    07-30-13 02:34 PM
  23. BBThemes's Avatar
    Do we think they can do it?
    Let's just say the past doesn't shine in their favour.

    Posted via CB10
    LWKING likes this.
    07-30-13 02:47 PM
  24. pillswoj's Avatar
    Blackberry's history dating back to OS4 has been to use slow underspecified hardware in their phones and have them not able to run the newer OS builds, yes there have been the odd exceptions where a last model phone may have gotten the next OS but it was not typical. This is why there was such an active hybrid community for BBOS.

    The A10 is looking to be more of the same, older technology being passed off as top of the line and most likely obsolete before your contract runs out.
    07-30-13 03:11 PM
  25. LWKING's Avatar
    Bring me a white Z15 running BB10.3 as a true upgrade over the Z10 and I'll be set. It'll be the perfect phone. I'm due for an upgrade, but Idk if I can wait that long
    07-30-13 06:23 PM
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