09-25-13 06:41 AM
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  1. avt123's Avatar
    I have used several android device with all kinds of stock and custom ROMs.....they were all crap compared to BB10, none of them were clean and/or effective...so in reality there
    actually is no argument

    Posted via CB10
    Actually, there is an argument because this is just your opinion, not fact. You are making claims that can be refuted.

    I can say the same thing in reverse. I have used stock and custom ROMs, and custom ROMs make a world of a difference. My Galaxy Nexus (Way older than the Z10) ****s all over my Z10 in terms of functionality, and smoothness. I have no lag. My ROM is optimized for performance.

    My device also goes a full day of use with heavy use. My Z10? Dead before 7pm if I use it the same way. This is with a bigger screen, an older and more inefficient processor and a chip that does not have LTE built in, therefor it is more power hungry.

    BB10 NEEDS 2GB to run. My Galaxy Nexus runs perfectly with 1GB and has tons of processes going on in the background, not just 8 cards (which will be addressed soon enough)

    Bash Android all you want. People want it. So far the market wants nothing to do with BB10.

    I love my Z10 and find BB10 to be very smooth and intuitive, but some of you people are on a different world and it is ridiculous. There is NOTHING personal about BB10. There is no customization besides the wallpaper. There is no personalization of an actual homescreen. You can be like an iOS device and have just grid of icons, OH MY GOD that's amazing. I can't even put an app anywhere I want on the screen, it has to stay in a consistent form across the board.

    Now go ahead and continue to bash the superior device. If it makes you feel better that's all that matters right? We all know who will win the sales game. The game that actually matters.
    Last edited by avt123; 09-16-13 at 12:01 AM.
    09-15-13 11:49 PM
  2. SDTRMG's Avatar
    Waffles :-)

    Posted via CB10
    Nharzhool likes this.
    09-15-13 11:53 PM
  3. dejanh's Avatar
    I had a nexus4 since around the time it was released and with quite poor specs it never had any issues. Only battery life was god awful but the phones overall experience was grand.
    My good buddy who I work with every day has a Nexus 4. Uses it and curses it and Android as a whole every day (he used an S4 too). In his opinion Nexus 4 is still the best Android can offer, but (in his words basically) it does not come even close to how good BlackBerry 10 actually is, apps aside. He's leaving Android as soon as the Z30 is out.

    There's a huge difference, I've always been able to depend on BB10 to do what I needed, whether I installed a leak or not. Btw I never installed a leak because I needed it on BB10....the difference with ALL the androids I used was that the custom ROMs were a necessity to deal with all the crap and bloat ware and as a fix for the inevitable lag.... and like I said earlier as far as I'm concerned there's no argument so I'm done with the subject
    Could not have put it better myself.

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-13 12:15 AM
  4. Captain_Hilts's Avatar
    Assuming you are on BB10 I could call you Captain "Swipe Tap" Hilts but I'm really not sure about the point of identifying each other by app switching methods. Care to enlighten me?
    Hahaha! Thanks for the laughs before I go to bed, Two Taps! I honestly can't tell if you tried to hit me with an "I know you are, but what am I" retort (using the debate logic of Pee Wee Herman, I see!) or if you just don't have a sense of humor.

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-13 12:39 AM
  5. extisis's Avatar
    Both awesome beast phones.

    Id take the Z30, but if there was no Z30 id buy the Z1. Both are exceptional hardware design imo.

    Posted via CB10
    yet some love to say the Z30 is already obselete... or that it should have a quad core
    09-16-13 12:51 AM
  6. Blacula's Avatar
    Same resolution... lower ppi...

    Posted via CB10
    What I don't get is, if it's a lower resolution than the Z10 why does it have more rows of icons? Did they tweak the icon sizes or someting?
    09-16-13 01:32 AM
  7. gng11's Avatar
    Still just a browser shortcut. Not sure why you think this is going to change.
    I'm not used to having a browser open Youtube. It's not that aesthetically convenient. Picky about that one.

    STILL not used to, that is.
    09-16-13 03:22 AM
  8. The Big Picture's Avatar
    No, YOU need to understand that this oft-touted point of view is not correct. A faster processor helps to run apps and games much faster and better, modern SoCs contain more improved power saving features, faster SoCs help cameras take photos faster, save photos faster and reduce time-to-next-shot. Newer GPUs run games much better and yield better visuals. Page load speeds benefit (real javascript and web code execution, not that rubbish HTML5 score that has little impact on actual rendering speed).

    As far as battery is concerned, your point is laughable when one considers that BlackBerry's QNX usage has not proven to be gentler on Battery life than the Android OS. The PlayBook had middling battery life, the Z10 doesn't have a stellar battery life by any stretch of the imagination...

    You aren't getting the same or better job done here. The Z1 will take photos faster, save them faster, probably take burst shots faster, outscore the Z30 in all browser rendering benchmarks, run demanding apps and games better.

    Not sure why BlackBerry is falling behind on the specs game. Nokia has a 1080p, 6 inch phone with the same chipset in this Z1 and the Galaxy Note 3, ready for release this month or early next month. By October, Windows Phones will have specs rivalling the best on Android. That is the way to play dirty and mix it up with the big boys...and not trotting out a flagship that will get derided for inferior specs.

    I'm not being 'negative' here. I will definitely buy the Z30...my Q10 isn't delivering the goods when it comes to battery life and I miss the larger screen of my old Z10...I just wished my next BlackBerry device would have the cutting edge specs that aren't a big stretch to get. Qualcomm has enough supplied of the S800 chipset to go round, and it isn't that expensive.
    Good stuff. I don't understand why your Q10 is not lasting. Have you turned down screen brightness?


    Q10
    09-16-13 03:49 AM
  9. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    I'm not used to having a browser open Youtube. It's not that aesthetically convenient. Picky about that one.

    STILL not used to, that is.
    FASTTUBE

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-13 06:49 AM
  10. JasW's Avatar
    S800 in a Q10 would be terrible for battery life and even worse in a Z10.
    More RAM is preferable to more cores/a faster SoC.
    Increasing RAM can also take a toll on battery life.

    Samsung has the high end android market locked down due to excellent marketing strategy and the ability to appeal to sheep.
    Before you chalk up to "sheep appeal," you might also want to consider the fact that they produce a quality product (b!tching about plastic battery covers aside).

    May I ask how going private will hurt BlackBerry? In my opinion it would be a huge positive for them as a business because it would take them out of the media limelight where negative biasness from bloggers / analysts holds firm.
    Generally, taking a company private spells the end of innovation. Private buyers do not fund such things because they want to cut costs, corners, and put the company through a wringer of their own devising. And that's where the private buyer wants to keep the company as some kind of a going concern, as opposed to breaking it up and selling off the parts.

    My good buddy who I work with every day has a Nexus 4. Uses it and curses it and Android as a whole every day (he used an S4 too). In his opinion Nexus 4 is still the best Android can offer, but (in his words basically) it does not come even close to how good BlackBerry 10 actually is, apps aside. He's leaving Android as soon as the Z30 is out.
    That's your buddy's personal preference. It is not illustrative of anything else.
    szlevi and pantlesspenguin like this.
    09-16-13 09:01 AM
  11. szlevi's Avatar
    Increasing RAM can also take a toll on battery life.
    Practically next to nothing when compared to LCD and CPU battery load.

    Before you chalk up to "sheep appeal," you might also want to consider the fact that they produce a quality product (b!tching about plastic battery covers aside).
    True albeit they are horrible at design, not to mention Samsung's awful-looking, mind-bogglingly miscalibrated/discolored junk AMOLED screens.

    Generally, taking a company private spells the end of innovation. Private buyers do not fund such things because they want to cut costs, corners, and put the company through a wringer of their own devising. And that's where the private buyer wants to keep the company as some kind of a going concern, as opposed to breaking it up and selling off the parts.
    That's a sweeping generalization and nothing backs it up - I could argue that if a company has a leader with a vision it could thrive even better as private due to the lack of stupid short-term investors barking at his heels, giving the CEO the option to execute a sustained, long-term plan.
    The only downside is losing the pressure to keep costs at bay but again, that argument can go the other way too.


    That's your buddy's personal preference. It is not illustrative of anything else.
    Yeah, this topic/forum is weird with these cute stories all over the place... when will people understand that individual empirical "evidence", even from a bunch of 'buddies' statistically euqal to jacksh!t...?
    jay_men and extisis like this.
    09-16-13 09:22 AM
  12. dejanh's Avatar
    Generally, taking a company private spells the end of innovation. Private buyers do not fund such things because they want to cut costs, corners, and put the company through a wringer of their own devising. And that's where the private buyer wants to keep the company as some kind of a going concern, as opposed to breaking it up and selling off the parts.
    You obviously know nothing about business. What you described is (a) typical only of a very poorly managed private company, and (b) in fact a spitting image of a public company. Public companies are primarily driven by short-term gains, and that has zero alignment with R&D. You really ought to learn something about the topic you are commenting on before you open your mouth and let the ignorance rush out.

    Bottom line is that a private company has the ability to restructure and reposition properly without a fiduciary duty to maximize profit, especially short-term profit. That in fact is beneficial to organizations that face difficulties, not detrimental. The only benefit to being public is tied to the scale at which you can operate and even that is not true. Oh and, just to kick you a bit more when you are down, a private company does not mean that it is owned and run by one person. Plenty of private companies use shares and trade internally, and even have boards of directors. Unlike public companies though, privately held companies with shareholders actually care more about the long term success of the company and absolutely never bet against it for financial gain.

    Boy that felt good!

    That's your buddy's personal preference. It is not illustrative of anything else.
    Very true, except that you were too narrow minded to realize that it was an illustration of a greater concept. A person that does not depend on the app ecosystem will objectively look at BlackBerry 10 as a much better platform than Android. I used one example, but have plenty more from current Android users. Notwithstanding any of that, most people want a polished experience, but unknowingly settle for Android because it is the only option they know out there or because they require apps. Absence of proof is not proof in itself.



    Posted via CB10
    jay_men, ital1, extisis and 2 others like this.
    09-16-13 09:29 AM
  13. 1magine's Avatar
    @ofutur, as far as your following comment goes:
    "Yeah, they were really blindsided by that new iPhone release in September and its specs."

    which aspects of the iPhone spec are you referring to as far as the Camera goes? The camera on the Z30 and the iPhone 5S (per the following link: Apple - iPhone 5s - Technical Specifications) are both 8 MP.

    I can understand about the fingerprint sensor - it may be very likely the reason why this the Z30 is photographed with a jacket on the OP - may be they are going to introduce a finger print sensor at the bottom.

    By - "it might come with a USB fingerprint scanner attached to it." - do you mean as an external attachment?
    Friend - it was sarcasm. Please re-boot your detector.
    09-16-13 09:30 AM
  14. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    There's a huge difference, I've always been able to depend on BB10 to do what I needed, whether I installed a leak or not. Btw I never installed a leak because I needed it on BB10....the difference with ALL the androids I used was that the custom ROMs were a necessity to deal with all the crap and bloat ware and as a fix for the inevitable lag.... and like I said earlier as far as I'm concerned there's no argument so I'm done with the subject
    I think you're saying there's no argument because you have some fairly week points that, like avt123 pointed out, can indeed be refuted. He touched on most everything but I'd like to point out something else: BB10 has bloatware too. Bloat is really any feature or app that one doesn't deem necessary. That will vary person by person. BlackBerry (and carriers) added several apps that people didn't want, and made it look like they were easily deletable. However, they then got pushed back to the device in the form of a small OS update. So no, bloat is not an Android-specific issue.

    As far as lag, I was running a Nexus 4 at the same time as I was using my Z10 as my primary device. I got about the same amount of lag on my Nexus 4 as I did my Z10, and both instances were negligible. On the Nexus I got lag when swiping between lock screen panes (not every time). On the Z10 I got it switching in and out of apps (not every time). I had the SGS3 and I only noticed lag when doing anything widget-based. Like if I had their heavy weather widget on my home screen, it would lag when I switched back to that home screen while that widget loaded. It also lagged whenever I opened up the widget drawer and all the available widgets populated the drawer. That usually took a few seconds. But like I mentioned earlier in this thread, that's TouchWiz based. Not Android. If sales of Galaxy devices are any indication, many people are willing to put up with a little lag in return for more functionality. On my Xperia Z, the lag seems as minimal as my Nexus 4 and Z10. I'll get the occasional stutter when I'm opening the app drawer, but that's about it. Hardly anything that warrants installing a ROM as a "fix" for the lag.
    MERCDROID likes this.
    09-16-13 09:53 AM
  15. extisis's Avatar
    Wow.. you guys tore @JasW a new one lol felt good to see it, he offered nothing substantive in is comments whatsoever.
    09-16-13 10:16 AM
  16. JasW's Avatar
    You obviously know nothing about business. What you described is (a) typical only of a very poorly managed private company, and (b) in fact a spitting image of a public company. Public companies are primarily driven by short-term gains, and that has zero alignment with R&D. You really ought to learn something about the topic you are commenting on before you open your mouth and let the ignorance rush out.

    Bottom line is that a private company has the ability to restructure and reposition properly without a fiduciary duty to maximize profit, especially short-term profit. That in fact is beneficial to organizations that face difficulties, not detrimental. The only benefit to being public is tied to the scale at which you can operate and even that is not true. Oh and, just to kick you a bit more when you are down, a private company does not mean that it is owned and run by one person. Plenty of private companies use shares and trade internally, and even have boards of directors. Unlike public companies though, privately held companies with shareholders actually care more about the long term success of the company and absolutely never bet against it for financial gain.

    Boy that felt good!


    Very true, except that you were too narrow minded to realize that it was an illustration of a greater concept. A person that does not depend on the app ecosystem will objectively look at BlackBerry 10 as a much better platform than Android. I used one example, but have plenty more from current Android users. Notwithstanding any of that, most people want a polished experience, but unknowingly settle for Android because it is the only option they know out there or because they require apps. Absence of proof is not proof in itself.



    Posted via CB10
    Insults. Nice. Look, only a fool would suggest that asset stripping is atypical when a PE company comes in. It happens all too frequently. And that type of gutting and/or asset stripping is what I was referring to, not restructuring costs along more conventional lines, which is all you are talking about. I perhaps should have added that this is when the PE company purports to want to keep the company as a going concern, rather than a going concern per se. But I stand by my know-nothingness and ignorance. PE firms come in and strip and/or cut to the bone. Not all of them. But many.

    Further, the anecdote you tout as somehow being emblematic of BB10's superiority over Android constitutes a fallacious argument, now matter whether you can trot out a handful of additional, similar anecdotes. It's the fallacy of composition, to be more precise. What's true of the part does not mean it is true of the whole. The market has shown that people do want a platform with a well-developed ecosystem, i.e., one with apps. You may not. Your preference entirely. But not indicative of anything other than that. And it's certainly not indicative of BB10's ostensible superiority over Android just because you feel it is better when apps are taken out of the equation. That's a theory you'll never be able to test.
    09-16-13 10:26 AM
  17. JasW's Avatar
    Wow.. you guys tore @JasW a new one lol felt good to see it, he offered nothing substantive in is comments whatsoever.
    Thank you sir, may I have another? Z30 meet Sony Z1-smiley-rolleyes007.gif
    09-16-13 10:30 AM
  18. habsfan170's Avatar
    And had it over a month already. Been in testing for a while

    Posted via CB10
    That's cool - maybe you could elaborate on some impressions? I.e. does the screen despite the lower res look just as good / better than the Z10? How does the different chipset seem to affect snappiness / multitasking and background processing?

    Thanks
    09-16-13 11:04 AM
  19. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    That's cool - maybe you could elaborate on some impressions? I.e. does the screen despite the lower res look just as good / better than the Z10? How does the different chipset seem to affect snappiness / multitasking and background processing?

    Thanks
    It's faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast
    09-16-13 11:10 AM
  20. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    You obviously know nothing about business. What you described is (a) typical only of a very poorly managed private company, and (b) in fact a spitting image of a public company. Public companies are primarily driven by short-term gains, and that has zero alignment with R&D. You really ought to learn something about the topic you are commenting on before you open your mouth and let the ignorance rush out.

    Bottom line is that a private company has the ability to restructure and reposition properly without a fiduciary duty to maximize profit, especially short-term profit. That in fact is beneficial to organizations that face difficulties, not detrimental. The only benefit to being public is tied to the scale at which you can operate and even that is not true. Oh and, just to kick you a bit more when you are down, a private company does not mean that it is owned and run by one person. Plenty of private companies use shares and trade internally, and even have boards of directors. Unlike public companies though, privately held companies with shareholders actually care more about the long term success of the company and absolutely never bet against it for financial gain.

    Boy that felt good!


    Very true, except that you were too narrow minded to realize that it was an illustration of a greater concept. A person that does not depend on the app ecosystem will objectively look at BlackBerry 10 as a much better platform than Android. I used one example, but have plenty more from current Android users. Notwithstanding any of that, most people want a polished experience, but unknowingly settle for Android because it is the only option they know out there or because they require apps. Absence of proof is not proof in itself.



    Posted via CB10
    Glad someone explained this. Thank you.
    09-16-13 11:11 AM
  21. qcbarry25's Avatar
    Ecosystems aren't built in such short time. I'm hoping to see more mainstream apps to drop after 10.2

    Posted via CB10
    probably not, unless 10.2 can magically bring in another 10million user., i don't see how it will come just because 10.2 is released.
    09-16-13 11:40 AM
  22. Bacon Munchers's Avatar
    Family photo!

    Maybe someday they will become brothers if their parents (read: companies) marry each other (read: buy/partner with)

    Posted via CB10
    ... After all, they both have the same last name...
    09-16-13 11:59 AM
  23. sentano's Avatar
    ...I don't know...the phablet thing that is being tossed around for a while seems like pushing smartphones beyond the "point of no return"...they keep "growing" until the human hand won't be able to hold one in a comfortable position. I like generous screens, but I'd say the 5"ones should be the biggest ones one can make a phone call with...
    About the Z30...we'll see how the built in battery and the amoled screen will work out...hope for the best. I'll stick to my Z10 for now...
    09-16-13 12:31 PM
  24. Bacon Munchers's Avatar
    ...I don't know...the phablet thing that is being tossed around for a while seems like pushing smartphones beyond the "point of no return"...they keep "growing" until the human hand won't be able to hold one in a comfortable position. I like generous screens, but I'd say the 5"ones should be the biggest ones one can make a phone call with...
    About the Z30...we'll see how the built in battery and the amoled screen will work out...hope for the best. I'll stick to my Z10 for now...
    Good point, but if you see what Samsung did with that 7" 'thing', you quickly realize how silly it looks when holding to ones head. This is probably why we aren't hearing about it selling mega-millions, like it's S4 cousin.

    This said, it looks like we have foyndthe'sweet-spot' depending on the user: seems to be between 4.5"-5.5".

    For me, I like the Z10 4.2", but I am a heavy laptop user, so the phone is mostly for text, and quick responses while mobile.
    09-16-13 12:49 PM
  25. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    probably not, unless 10.2 can magically bring in another 10million user., i don't see how it will come just because 10.2 is released.
    It's not just because 10.2 is released... it's the updated android player that comes with it... 4.2.2 makes a big difference when porting apps.

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-13 01:04 PM
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