10-03-13 08:47 AM
69 123
tools
  1. bekkay's Avatar
    The CPUs are not entirely the same. According to Anandtech, the Krait 300 in the Snapdragon 600 has a 15% increase performance clock-for-clock or 20-30% increase given the MHz boost. Also, there is an increase in battery efficiency.

    AnandTech | Qualcomm's Next-Gen Krait 400 & Krait 300 Announced in Snapdragon 800 & 600 SoCs
    LWKING likes this.
    07-30-13 04:26 PM
  2. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    Oh look droids.

    Sent from my BB10 smartphone.
    An army of droids, fighting each other
    07-30-13 04:30 PM
  3. youknwwho's Avatar
    An army of droids, fighting each other
    And the A10 is not the droid you were looking for. Sorry but has to get it out some how
    Dave Bourque and SDTRMG like this.
    07-30-13 04:37 PM
  4. bekkay's Avatar
    Here is some info on power consumption from Qualcomm (via TomsHardware):

    "Snapdragon 600 processor to deliver up to 40% better performance than the Snapdragon S4 Pro processor at lower power."

    Qualcomm Announces New Snapdragon Processors
    kfh227, SDTRMG and LWKING like this.
    07-30-13 04:57 PM
  5. Marios199546's Avatar
    Dont forget that in the Q4 2013 WP8 with Snapdragon 800 are coming..........
    07-30-13 04:57 PM
  6. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    I hear the stomping

    My PlayBook? Very useful in the shower as a radio and notepad
    07-30-13 05:01 PM
  7. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Dont forget that in the Q4 2013 WP8 with Snapdragon 800 are coming..........
    Doesn't mean a damn thing. On my gaming PC I'm using a top of the line quad core. Wound a octa core help me with my gaming experience? Nope. At this point a gpu upgrade is all I'm looking for in near future.

    Sent from my BB10 smartphone.
    07-30-13 05:16 PM
  8. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    I'll be honest, most of you that are talking about this have no idea what the heck you're talking about so I decided to help you out!

    If you check out my other posts, you'll see that I believe that the difference between the A10 performance compared to the S4 and HTC One will be either the same or better. It's BB10 vs. Android, but that's a discussion for another day. The only REAL quad core improvement is the Snapdragon 800 The A10 specs aren't as outdated as meant to believe so lets calm down a bit here. Here are some numbers to get your brains ticking. And please, can the 2 year old processor crap, there's a only a 6 month difference.



    *** The phone is the video above is using a quad core version of the S4 Pro, the APQ8064. The A10 will have the MSM8690T. While the processors technically aren't the same. I don't expect there to be much of a difference from the dual core version. I'll update the post when I find a more accurate comparison.***

    For the record, the "quad core" GPU on the S4 Pro and the Snapdragon 600 are the same. That means that the A10 will have the same GPU as the HTC One, Galaxy S4, and the LG Optimus G Pro. There isn't an improvement until you jump to the Snapdragon 800

    With that being said, can't we all just get along?

    User Experience:1
    Specs: 0


    Let's have at it and finish it here! No arguments without links please. No proof, no argument
    So the sales guy at telco store will tell potential buyers dual core is same as quad core. Good luck explaining that to the average customer. Even a seasoned smartphone user won't buy that as it sounds like a hard sales pitch. The person buying this is locked up with that phone for at least 2 years so to eliminate the uncertainty and fear of buying relatively old tech, they'll go for the recent one which at the minimum would be quad core.
    07-30-13 05:17 PM
  9. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    Ok guys be real here for a second. We know the stuff that drives the screen is the GPU. The CPU job is more of a calculation, managing etc. So smooth experience got to do more with the GPU and RAM. So if the A10 got loads of ram, good enough CPU and a kick *** GPU that's on the top of the line android phone at the moment combine with a tailored os for the hardware, performance will be great.
    And frankly, I find the spec race over at android is stupid. We're approaching the point were us human can't tell two top of the line phone which one is better. Its mostly if not all gimmick. And would you guys buy an android phone if you know in a few short week some other phone maker will come out with something bigger and better ? Will that's be good business ? No. End of rant
    If you were offered 2 A10s. First is the one that BB is rumored to offer in November and another A10 with quad core 1080p screen with 3G RAM and 3100 mAh Battery at the same price and assuming both phones perform pretty much the same. Which A10 would you buy?
    07-30-13 05:26 PM
  10. magtheridon2000's Avatar
    Doesn't mean a damn thing. On my gaming PC I'm using a top of the line quad core. Wound a octa core help me with my gaming experience? Nope. At this point a gpu upgrade is all I'm looking for in near future.

    Sent from my BB10 smartphone.
    It's all about the spec race, and getting value for the money. Let's get real, they will price it high as a flagship (as BB always have high prices...), and you are just not getting great hardware value compared to all those droids and windows phone that will have Snapdragon 800. En avoir pour son argent, comme on dit dans notre bout d’Amérique. . It's scary for BBRY future, as the A10 is their next big thing...

    And for 2 year old specs, nobody was talking about 2 year old processors, it's simply that phameras between 16mp and 41mp (compared to all 2011's 8mp) and a 5 inch 720p (less than 2011's Note 5,3 inch 800p) will be sold for the exact same price, probably with a better processor. What does it mean for BBRY?
    07-30-13 06:18 PM
  11. bekkay's Avatar
    Doesn't mean a damn thing. On my gaming PC I'm using a top of the line quad core. Wound a octa core help me with my gaming experience? Nope. At this point a gpu upgrade is all I'm looking for in near future.

    Sent from my BB10 smartphone.
    OK, if the GPU performance is all you are looking for, then you should be aware that the 800 will have a much more powerful GPU as well.
    07-30-13 06:23 PM
  12. kfh227's Avatar
    I don't care what cpu it is, but it better be quad core. That's all most people see or care about.

    And people that care about battery life will want a more modern cpu design.
    Posted via CB10
    bekkay likes this.
    07-30-13 09:12 PM
  13. BB Fightclub's Avatar
    As I understand it..... A 320GPU is not powerful enough to run 1080P fast, but it is great with 720P. You really need the
    330GPU found in the S800 for a 1080P screen and they are not really available yet. I think the big problem with S4 Pro is the lack of 802.11ac WiFi. The SMS8960DT in the Moto X has it. I assume the D stands for Droid as this is a special SOC made for the Moto X
    07-30-13 10:26 PM
  14. SDTRMG's Avatar
    Let's see...
    Kindle Fire 2013
    Sony Honami
    Galaxy Note 3
    Galaxy S4 Advanced
    LG G2
    Sony Z Ultra
    Lenovo X910
    Droid Ultra
    HTC One Max
    Asus Padfone A86
    Oppo Find 7
    Probably a Huawei model as well...

    That will be the Astro's competition this Fall/Winter.
    Haha this is an example of why BlackBerry should not join the stupid specs race, it consists of only Android oems, most of which are component, processor or screen manufacturer, all running the same Os with nothing else but specs to complete with.

    Microsoft is adding 1080p support in a few months so you won't see a 1080p wp8 device till 2014. Which no one knows if BlackBerry will add it then.

    Apple still hasn't even hit 720p.

    Only a fool would jump on a spec war with the biggest component/proccessor/screen/products manufacturer/supplier in the world, one of which supplys BlackBerry with parts aswell.(Samsung). Especially when your Os (bb10) doesn't need a quad core cpu and gpu to run smoothly.



    Posted via CB10
    m1kr0 and Jaguarandine like this.
    07-31-13 12:17 AM
  15. Jakob Greve's Avatar
    What he said
    07-31-13 05:41 AM
  16. WArcher's Avatar
    Ok guys be real here for a second. We know the stuff that drives the screen is the GPU. The CPU job is more of a calculation, managing etc. So smooth experience got to do more with the GPU and RAM. So if the A10 got loads of ram, good enough CPU and a kick *** GPU that's on the top of the line android phone at the moment combine with a tailored os for the hardware, performance will be great.
    And frankly, I find the spec race over at android is stupid. We're approaching the point were us human can't tell two top of the line phone which one is better. Its mostly if not all gimmick. And would you guys buy an android phone if you know in a few short week some other phone maker will come out with something bigger and better ? Will that's be good business ? No. End of rant
    100% in agreement here; Let's face it: In Android-ville every single manufacturer has the same OS to start with. There are perhaps 4000 different Android based devices models and types out there from set top boxes to handsets.

    The ONLY WAY To differentiate things which (at face value) appear identical is via hardware specifications. This is why Android fans are so hot on specifications. That, and any Skinning from the vendor, is the only thing that makes one device "better" than another.

    I view QNX and BlackBerry differently. It's all about the experience. Period.

    Look - Is it better to have 4 cores or 2 cores? Is it better to have 4 tires or 2 tires?
    Is a motorcycle with a 1200cc engine going to behave differently than an Audi TT with a 1.8L engine? Even though the little TT is a sportscar it carries a lot more weight and the smaller more agile motorbike with a smaller engine will easily race against the TT.

    It's "what experience do I want"?

    Even in PC world there are "gaming PC's" and "Work PC's" - As my English friends say "Horses for Courses".

    In BlackBerry world it is not about the HW specifications. It's about the Experience. The extra GPU, CPU, and Battery required to drive any screen above 720P is not really worth it as the human eye can't really detect it on a screen 5" or smaller. The Experience choice, then, is a day of getting things done OR a couple hours of the ability to play and watch videos.

    Then there is the issue of LTE chip sets - battery life and integration become SUPER important. A fully integrated platform (BlackBerry) using LTE, Dual-core: Qualcomm chipsets becomes much more power efficient.

    BlackBerry COULD throw a quad-core in.. but does it make a difference? Is it WORTH the power consumption?
    For a Display beyond 720P: Does it add value? Does it Change the experience? Bigger is not always better?

    The Spec race tapering off quite frankly. There are limits of practicality (and physics) being hit.

    The key metrics are really, then:
    1) Does the display look nice?
    2) Does it work?
    3) Is it a Tool?
    4) Is it a Phone?
    Last edited by TTune; 07-31-13 at 11:44 AM.
    LWKING, m1kr0, SDTRMG and 4 others like this.
    07-31-13 10:54 AM
  17. WArcher's Avatar
    I don't care what cpu it is, but it better be quad core. That's all most people see or care about.

    And people that care about battery life will want a more modern cpu design.
    Posted via CB10
    A modern CPU design which takes into consideration Battery Life are the fully integrated Qualcomm chipsets; Instead of many components from many vendors, a single small chipset takes less space and much less power.
    wtrmlnjuc likes this.
    07-31-13 11:01 AM
  18. LWKING's Avatar
    Going off of what TTune says, the experience on the A10 will be even better than it is on the Z10. Not to mention the 10.2 update with all of the updated features and the updated Android runtime, panoramic pictures, headless apps, etc. If you honestly think that you'll have a better experience on an Android phone, go for it. But as Crackberry members we know what BB10 has to offer. Instead of worrying about how Blackberry operates, we should be doing our jobs as consumers and purchase the phone that fits our needs the best when it comes out.

    I have to ask. Would you really not purchase the phone if it had 720p instead of 1080? This logic makes sense with Android, since the phones are more or less the same and differentiation by specs is necessary. But is the BB10 experience worth that spec to you? Are you willing to give up everything for a few more pixels? I don't expect you to if you own a Z10. I'd bet that many of us who complain, like me, would like to see more, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if we didn't. If you want a 5" phone and you like BB10, you're gonna get the A10.

    Keep in mind that we're complaining about a device that doesn't even exist yet. While it's fun to talk about what we think consumers will do when the phone comes out, in reality, nobody really knows until it happens. Instead of worrying about what others will think, let's just focus on the best device for ourselves.
    07-31-13 12:30 PM
  19. bekkay's Avatar
    1) Does the display look nice?
    2) Does it work?
    3) Is it a Tool?
    4) Is it a Phone?
    I agree that I'd take a 720p screen with better color, contrast, brightness, etc. over a 1080p with worse characteristics. But are we not talking about potentially the same quality (so far, the existing 1080p screens seem to be fantastic)?

    In that case, which one will people choose: a 1080p screen or a 720p screen (all else equal) given a "premium" price that the A10 will most probably have?

    Also, I am not buying the argument that the higher resolution will affect the battery life significantly. The modern GPUs handle HD resolutions without any problems. Unless you play graphics-intensive games at 1080p (which you don't have to), the impact on battery life from the increased resolution is miniscule compared to other things like back lighting, radios, etc.

    I am also confused about your #2-4. Are you implying that one device will be more of a tool than another one? I hope you understand that the old "tools, not toys" argument is laughable at best.
    07-31-13 01:56 PM
  20. wtrmlnjuc's Avatar
    There will also be an entire lineup of Windows Phones yet to be announced (with high end specs).
    08-01-13 11:04 AM
  21. wtrmlnjuc's Avatar
    Haha this is an example of why BlackBerry should not join the stupid specs race, it consists of only Android oems, most of which are component, processor or screen manufacturer, all running the same Os with nothing else but specs to complete with.

    Microsoft is adding 1080p support in a few months so you won't see a 1080p wp8 device till 2014. Which no one knows if BlackBerry will add it then.

    Apple still hasn't even hit 720p.

    Only a fool would jump on a spec war with the biggest component/proccessor/screen/products manufacturer/supplier in the world, one of which supplys BlackBerry with parts aswell.(Samsung). Especially when your Os (bb10) doesn't need a quad core cpu and gpu to run smoothly.



    Posted via CB10
    GDR3 is coming in the fall and will bring 1080p and other hardware support to the system. GDR2 already enables some of that.
    08-01-13 11:06 AM
  22. grover5's Avatar
    I agree that I'd take a 720p screen with better color, contrast, brightness, etc. over a 1080p with worse characteristics. But are we not talking about potentially the same quality (so far, the existing 1080p screens seem to be fantastic)?

    In that case, which one will people choose: a 1080p screen or a 720p screen (all else equal) given a "premium" price that the A10 will most probably have?

    Also, I am not buying the argument that the higher resolution will affect the battery life significantly. The modern GPUs handle HD resolutions without any problems. Unless you play graphics-intensive games at 1080p (which you don't have to), the impact on battery life from the increased resolution is miniscule compared to other things like back lighting, radios, etc.

    I am also confused about your #2-4. Are you implying that one device will be more of a tool than another one? I hope you understand that the old "tools, not toys" argument is laughable at best.
    I didn't get the tools not toys thing from that at all. It doesn't seem particularly confusing. Does it work? Is it a tool? Is it a phone? Basically does it fulfill these needs.

    Posted via CB10
    bekkay likes this.
    08-01-13 11:14 AM
  23. WArcher's Avatar
    I didn't get the tools not toys thing from that at all. It doesn't seem particularly confusing. Does it work? Is it a tool? Is it a phone? Basically does it fulfill these needs.

    Posted via CB10
    Thank you D_March - This is a lot simpler than people are proposing: There are only 4 reasons to pick a device for personal use and that cute maxim "tools not toys" was not anywhere in my thought process.

    The Z10 screen is already better than "retina" but, honestly, does it really matter? Is this a "USP" (Unique Selling Point)?

    From 1 meter away all the touch screen devices look identical. However there is no way that I can convert an iPhone user who has heavily invested in that Experience (eco-system, whatever) to convert to a Z10 or Q10. If iTunes is your thing and you have embraced that paradigm then you'll sacrifice big pixel count, reliance on proprietary hardware and connectors, and a single-source platform to get it.

    Android users have less to hold on to I believe. There is a huge variety of different devices to choose from but they're all the same experience, more or less. The basic 4 questions still apply, however. Android hard-cores are all about modifications, skinning, specifications, rooting and futzing. The BlackBerry Platform does not embrace that Experience as well as Android does.

    The Experience I am looking for is a powerful always-on, multi-connected platform which does what it's supposed to do and does it well. The Experience I have is currently best suited in the Z10 and Q10 (I have both and really honestly I like them equally but for completely different reasons because the Experience is completely different )

    To each their own. My message is that specifications are a distraction which don't honestly contribute to the Experience.
    bekkay, LWKING, SDTRMG and 1 others like this.
    08-01-13 12:07 PM
  24. lnichols's Avatar
    One issue is obsolescence. It is clear that the Z10 and A10 are older designs and hardware because of BB10's almost year long delay to make it to market. So how soon before they go to latest and greatest and go to an OS that the Z10/Q10/Z30 won't run? We've seen BlackBerry have no issues abandoning products with software less than a year after their release.

    Another is cost to value. Yes Apple gets away with charging more for less, but it works for them and they have a retail network, support network and name brand that BlackBerry can only dream of at this point. Right now BlackBerry needs to build back brand image and drive adoption and they have yet to be doing that with BB10 yet.

    Posted via CB10
    08-05-13 06:49 AM
  25. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    One issue is obsolescence. It is clear that the Z10 and A10 are older designs and hardware because of BB10's almost year long delay to make it to market. So how soon before they go to latest and greatest and go to an OS that the Z10/Q10/Z30 won't run? We've seen BlackBerry have no issues abandoning products with software less than a year after their release.
    Sooner than you think :S
    08-05-13 06:52 AM
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