02-03-14 10:18 AM
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  1. Sergeant_Im's Avatar
    Fact is he didn't read the tag/instructions and broke it. If I broke an iPhone 5 because I tried to pry it open thinking it must have a removable battery, can I then write a review article saying how poor a design it is not having a removable battery and I broke it? NO!
    Quoted for truth

    Posted via CB10
    11-07-13 12:25 PM
  2. gnirkatto's Avatar
    I'm a tech journalist myself with close to 16 years of experience covering technology. I mostly cover business tech, but I review all BlackBerry smartphones and reviewed the Z30 too. While I did not pry off the piece Guillaume is referring to, I got the feeling some users would and mentioned it in my review on Firstpost.com, which is India's fastest growing digital brand and is from India's most respected media group--just in case anyone here thinks I'm a self-labelled journalist. I DO NOT think this reflects poor build quality and nor do I personally feel that anyone should consider not buying the Z30 because of this, but fact is--it DOES reflect a bit of poor design. Perhaps the intention was to have a tray or side-slot for a SIM/microSD, which was then trashed, but whatever the intention, the fact is that the piece of metal placed in that area is misleading. Now, folks can jump on Guillaume as some have done, but facts are facts and reviewers are supposed to present facts. You can argue all you want, blah, blah, blah, but that doesn't change the fact. Personally, I have mentioned this, but don't consider it important enough to deduct points for build quality, but the reader has a right to know. He's putting down money for a product and if I'm helping him make a buying decision, I need to tell him everything--good and bad, add my opinion and leave it to him whether he considers this a deal-breaker or not.
    But this is the whole point. Critizising this thing as a strange design element and making readers aware of it not being the SD/SIM card door is fair.
    Breaking it out of ignorance and then calling it "horribly built" is extremely unfair.
    11-07-13 12:28 PM
  3. dtango's Avatar
    It's frankly amazing that someone finds a real flaw with a device and people on here still try to defend it.
    Saiga and TurbanLedgend like this.
    11-07-13 12:29 PM
  4. world boss's Avatar
    ITT : crackberry users argue with the OP to hide the fact that he found a flaw in the Z30's design
    TurbanLedgend likes this.
    11-07-13 12:37 PM
  5. ankush77's Avatar
    dont kill Z30,please its my last hope???
    LyoobaBerry likes this.
    11-07-13 12:42 PM
  6. Saiga's Avatar
    It's frankly amazing that someone finds a real flaw with a device and people on here still try to defend it.
    All this thread has accomplished is convince another phone reviewer that a large portion of the tiny pool of remaining BlackBerry fans are freaking crazy.

    The OP screwed up and ripped the phone apart, but he made a good point. The Z30 has the worlds largest SIM/SD card slot. It is a ridiculous design that should have never existed. He wouldn't have ripped anything off if the phone was designed with a proper SIM/SD card slot door. Honestly, who was the moron that thought making a sealed battery phone with a removable battery door was a good idea? All the cons of having a sealed up phone, with NONE of the advantages.

    Someone will say "But, but, but, but the removable SIM/SD card door lets us do this or that...", but honestly, deep down we all know it was a lazy design choice.

    I hope the OP mentions how he was treated here in his review and shares his link with us. I'd be interested in reading it.
    TurbanLedgend likes this.
    11-07-13 12:42 PM
  7. ankush77's Avatar
    Ignorance can be very dangerous thing
    TrueKulcha likes this.
    11-07-13 12:46 PM
  8. anon3700711's Avatar
    There isn't a design flaw.

    Shutup.

    Posted via CB10 from P'9982STK100-1/10.2.1.896
    mnc76 likes this.
    11-07-13 01:02 PM
  9. pkcable's Avatar
    How about Disappointing? Does that make you guys feel any better? And besides it's just his opinion, which is is entitled too!
    Spawn12 and Superfly_FR like this.
    11-07-13 01:05 PM
  10. Spawn12's Avatar
    pkcable much better, it might be disappointing but its not a real flaw...seems the only people who think it is is the OP and a few others. Ive played extensively with the Z30 and its beautifully built just like the Z10 i own. I'll be getting one myself soon but the one i played with didnt have any parts sticking out or parts that could be pryed off etc.

    My only concern is how hard it is to get the back door off but if you use your brain that god has given you and a bit of patience, then you wont be breaking the phone.
    TrueKulcha likes this.
    11-07-13 01:08 PM
  11. Spawn12's Avatar
    The OP screwed up and ripped the phone apart, but he made a good point. The Z30 has the worlds largest SIM/SD card slot. It is a ridiculous design that should have never existed. He wouldn't have ripped anything off if the phone was designed with a proper SIM/SD card slot door. Honestly, who was the moron that thought making a sealed battery phone with a removable battery door was a good idea? All the cons of having a sealed up phone, with NONE of the advantages.
    This i agree with, if Blackberry were going to make it a non removeable battery then they should have left the door sealed, simple as that. Should have just put a door on both the sim card and mem card slot and be done with it.

    At least we have the option to change mem cards unlike the iphones
    Saiga and TrueKulcha like this.
    11-07-13 01:11 PM
  12. Saiga's Avatar
    This i agree with, if Blackberry were going to make it a non removeable battery then they should have left the door sealed, simple as that. Should have just put a door on both the sim card and mem card slot and be done with it.

    At least we have the option to change mem cards unlike the iphones
    Good point!

    That was a typing error on my part. Some sealed phones, such as the G2 and iPhones don't bother with a SD card slot at all. So it doesn't exactly have ALL the cons of a sealed phone. I should have been more descriptive.
    11-07-13 01:19 PM
  13. gnirkatto's Avatar
    This i agree with, if Blackberry were going to make it a non removeable battery then they should have left the door sealed, simple as that. Should have just put a door on both the sim card and mem card slot and be done with it.

    At least we have the option to change mem cards unlike the iphones
    I think this is a valid discussion.
    A couple of thoughts:
    nobody here has a clue why exactly this design choice was made. Not me, nor anyone else. Maybe there was no other way with this particular construction. Who knows, except the people who designed it?
    Someone said in a previous post that it is a sealed battery phone with none of the advantages. The same person then doesn't want the community to talk about the advantages of such a design, which might be:
    allows for flip cases to be applied
    allows back covers to be exchanged, to e.g. support wireless charging
    allows for different coloured/textured back covers to be applied
    no flimsy sim card door or tray needed
    no tool needed to open tray
    back cover can be replaced when damaged or scratched
    (maybe?) easier access to components in case of repair or battery exchange
    etc.?

    I'm not saying that all of these arguments appeal to everybody. But as always, there are 2 sides to each coin.
    cbvinh, triplefan, awindsr and 1 others like this.
    11-07-13 01:40 PM
  14. kevinnugent's Avatar
    They made the backplate removable to allow cases to snap on as a replacement to the backplate and maintain thinness.

    Posted from my Z30
    Huh? How on earth does a snap on plate make it thinner?!
    Saiga likes this.
    11-07-13 02:17 PM
  15. kevinnugent's Avatar
    I think this is a valid discussion.
    A couple of thoughts:
    nobody here has a clue why exactly this design choice was made. Not me, nor anyone else. Maybe there was no other way with this particular construction. Who knows, except the people who designed it?
    Someone said in a previous post that it is a sealed battery phone with none of the advantages. The same person then doesn't want the community to talk about the advantages of such a design, which might be:
    allows for flip cases to be applied
    allows back covers to be exchanged, to e.g. support wireless charging
    allows for different coloured/textured back covers to be applied
    no flimsy sim card door or tray needed
    no tool needed to open tray
    back cover can be replaced when damaged or scratched
    (maybe?) easier access to components in case of repair or battery exchange
    etc.?

    I'm not saying that all of these arguments appeal to everybody. But as always, there are 2 sides to each coin.
    At least those points make sense!
    11-07-13 02:19 PM
  16. ivors's Avatar
    It LOOKS like a slot/tray cover. It's placed in the same area as slot/tray covers on many smartphones. I KNEW the SIM/microSD slot was under the back cover. Yet even I tried to see if this was a slot cover of some sort. The Q5 had a similar slot cover on the side. As a reviewer I mentioned that it's possible some customers will pry hard and damage the smartphone. What happened to the OP proves my point. It is poor design when you put in a design feature that resembles a design feature found on other smartphones but which is usable there and is useless here.
    11-07-13 03:01 PM
  17. ivors's Avatar
    Yes, and there are mile-long queues for the Z30 in every country its been released too!

    It is poor design when you put in a design feature that resembles a design feature found on other smartphones but which is usable there and no functional use here. It LOOKS like a slot/tray cover. It's placed in the same area as slot/tray covers on many smartphones here. Unless there is reason that strip is placed there, you have to admit that BlackBerry didn't do a perfect job on design.

    There isn't a design flaw.

    Shutup.

    Posted via CB10 from P'9982STK100-1/10.2.1.896
    11-07-13 03:10 PM
  18. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I'm a tech journalist myself with close to 16 years of experience covering technology. I mostly cover business tech, but I review all BlackBerry smartphones and reviewed the Z30 too. While I did not pry off the piece Guillaume is referring to, I got the feeling some users would and mentioned it in my review on Firstpost.com, which is India's fastest growing digital brand and is from India's most respected media group--just in case anyone here thinks I'm a self-labelled journalist. I DO NOT think this reflects poor build quality and nor do I personally feel that anyone should consider not buying the Z30 because of this, but fact is--it DOES reflect a bit of poor design. Perhaps the intention was to have a tray or side-slot for a SIM/microSD, which was then trashed, but whatever the intention, the fact is that the piece of metal placed in that area is misleading. Now, folks can jump on Guillaume as some have done, but facts are facts and reviewers are supposed to present facts. You can argue all you want, blah, blah, blah, but that doesn't change the fact. Personally, I have mentioned this, but don't consider it important enough to deduct points for build quality, but the reader has a right to know. He's putting down money for a product and if I'm helping him make a buying decision, I need to tell him everything--good and bad, add my opinion and leave it to him whether he considers this a deal-breaker or not.
    You did a proper work by pointing what - if I understand correctly your contribution - I'd qualify as a negative design *detail*.
    Unfortunately, Guillaume pointed it as an undisputable proof of poor quality.
    Again, we must ponderate it with the style a non English/US guy may use.
    Then, it's the usual forum story... and a rant turns into flames, a detail into a life concern...
    That's just the way it (unfortunately) is.

    Edit: I'm sure everybody noticed he left the conversation pages ago... so that we're living in a ghost thread. Lol.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 11-08-13 at 02:42 AM.
    eddy_berry and revtech like this.
    11-07-13 03:25 PM
  19. cbvinh's Avatar
    The OP poster pointed out that it was poor design on BlackBerry's part to put something that looks like a SIM/memory card door on the side of the phone. The average user might try to pry it open, like what the OP did, if he/she ignored the big sticker on the back explaining how to access the SIM/memory card.

    The iPhone 4 had antennas where the average user might put his/her hands. In that case, it wasn't poor design but the user's fault.

    It's interesting what people consider bad enough design to make a fuss over.
    bungaboy and TrueKulcha like this.
    11-07-13 03:44 PM
  20. awindsr's Avatar
    Huh? How on earth does a snap on plate make it thinner?!
    You just misinterpreted.
    If you have a non removable back, and you want a case, then the case increases the phone size.
    If you remove the back cover to add a case, then it snaps into where the rear cover plate was.
    Phone stays the same size.

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR and bungaboy like this.
    11-07-13 04:30 PM
  21. gnirkatto's Avatar

    Edit: I'm sure everybody noticed he left the conversation pages ago... so that we're living in a ghost thread. Lol.
    Do you really believe he stopped reading?
    11-07-13 04:46 PM
  22. mnc76's Avatar
    It's frankly amazing that someone finds a real flaw with a device and people on here still try to defend it.
    What are you talking about? There is NO "real flaw" here. The only flaw here is due to user idiocy. And you don't have to be a fanboy to see this. You just have to have everyday common sense. Geeze!

    I'm blown away that anyone would defend this guy! It's absolutely unfathomable. Seriously! Time for people to take some responsibility for their own mistakes for once.

    Posted via CB10
    Thachoc1 and bungaboy like this.
    11-07-13 04:55 PM
  23. Thachoc1's Avatar
    What mnc76 said +111111111111111111

    That is the biggest point of all, the OP didn't bring this to us the way ivors said it. And if the OP puts his review out there the way he did here, IT'S A BAD REVIEW, A BAD DING FOR THE BLACKBERRY Z30!!!! C'mon open your eyes, what more does the media need to blow this up? Ultimately it's bigger than all of this.

    At what point are you defenders of the OP going to say, HE COULD HAVE RTFM or followed the clearly printed diagram!!!! Yes I agree it looks like a slot cover, yes it could be removable, but hello, myself and countless others have done their homework about this phone. And for those that know nothing of the Z30, I would like to think have enough sense to (and I repeat) RTFM or FOLLOW THE CLEARLY PRINTED DIAGRAM!!! Yet a tech journalist neglected to do his homework, and childishly blamed it on the dog. FOH!!!

    Just think, this entire thread would never have come to exist had the OP done either of those two things.

    C'est La Vie - This thread is here forever, the review will be forever, the horrible build quality of the Z30 will be here forever. All it takes is one to ruin it for all.
    Last edited by Thachoc1; 11-07-13 at 08:07 PM.
    11-07-13 05:29 PM
  24. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Wow; "Build Quality" is not the same thing as "design" or "human factors" or anything else.

    The "Build Quality" of the (EDIT: Z30) is excellent. I have a Nexus 5 in my hand (ok, I'm typing on my PC, I JUST put it down a few seconds ago) and if you want to compare build quality, the Z30 is superior to the Nexus 5 (but of course the Nexus 5 specs are excellent... I just wish I would be able to resist swiping up from the bottom bezel to activate it. "Press the hard buttons, Ryan...")

    The battery cover design and strange 'outcropping' that covers the sim and SD card slots on the Z30 is just downright strange / unique in a bad way, period. Take it from me, a professional UX / UI analyst and designer.

    But also bad is the stupid but all-too-common tiny pinhole and special pin thing included with the phone to pop out the SIM card "drawer"... Thanks for THAT abomination, Apple. Seriously, who would have guessed that would be necessary if they didn't read the instructions? And how many people have lost the little "tool" and now have trouble getting the SIM out? Plenty. (EDIT: I guess it's not obvious but this is how the Nexus 5 does it... comes with a tool and everything... but it's round instead of oval to avoid a patent infringement lawsuit... brought by "Straightened Out Paper Clip International Holdings Inc.")

    What's "normal"? Take off the back, remove the battery if necessary, slide the SIM card into the very well labeled space provided, with the little "icon" that shows the orientation of the SIM, and put the battery back in, if necessary, and put the device back panel back on.

    Any device that deviates from this is not doing it the optimal way (you need an actual TOOL? Really?) and is fair game for criticism.

    EDIT: but "take off the back..." etc. (i.e. the optimal way) IS the way the Z30 does it... but the side panel is a confusing irrelevance and, again, because it's abnormal, is fair game for criticism
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 11-07-13 at 09:51 PM.
    11-07-13 06:22 PM
  25. anon(4077577)'s Avatar
    good post ryan, thanks.

    from an australian Z10...
    11-07-13 07:17 PM
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