09-14-13 01:26 PM
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  1. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    Don't worry you are not the one "not getting it".

    The Z30, if it gets sold for 600$ off-contract is DOA.
    If it is 199$ on contract, it is still DOA.

    If the biggest "feature" the fanboys are touting as "incredible" will be the battery life, that phone is DOA.

    Pretty much everything the Z30 offers are old specs.
    And 0.8 inches more screen size than the Z10.
    There is exactly 0 reason to think that the Z30 will sell substantially more, under the current market structure than the Z10 did.

    Edit:
    The iPhone 5s still only has a 4 inch screen.
    With lots of imagination, one could fathom that this may actually give them a little edge (but realistically this advantage gets completely destroyed by a lack of apps).

    Posted via CB10
    So what is BB to do? If they sell on-contract for less than $199, they'll immediately be viewed as a second-tier device. It could be free on-contract and I don't think it'd sell any better. BB needs to make money. They can't simply give away phones for free (or sell them at a loss). If the Z30 takes care of some of the weaknesses of the Z10 (features/functionality/experience - not talking specs), then perhaps they'll get better reviews, and that might spur more interest. Who knows, but I don't think pricing lower than the default $199 will benefit them at all - at least not on initial release. There is a small chance reviewers will give it a positive review with the hardware improvements and the new features and enhancements of 10.2. I suspect, however, it'll still come down paper specs and the negative "too little, too late" mantra. Meaning the Z30 is likely to have at best only marginal success. But who knows.
    09-12-13 12:25 PM
  2. Gerry In Toronto's Avatar
    A few sites commenting on a report that the Z30 is currently in acceptance testing at Bell Canada and other large carriers.

    As others mentioned, it is slated for a late September or early October launch.

    The Z30 sports a5-inch display, a 1.7GHz dual-core processor, 8MP camera, 2,880 mAh battery, 16GB internal storage, 2GB RAM

    It will be the last BB10 device for 2013 and will ship with OS 10.2

    Those specs. won't impress possible converts.

    Via my Z10 beta 10.4.1.1338
    09-12-13 01:09 PM
  3. BB12MX's Avatar
    A few sites commenting on a report that the Z30 is currently in acceptance testing at Bell Canada and other large carriers.

    As others mentioned, it is slated for a late September or early October launch.

    The Z30 sports a5-inch display, a 1.7GHz dual-core processor, 8MP camera, 2,880 mAh battery, 16GB internal storage, 2GB RAM

    It will be the last BB10 device for 2013 and will ship with OS 10.2

    Those specs. won't impress possible converts.

    Via my Z10 beta 10.4.1.1338
    MMM can be ... I know people wanted a bigger display and liked the Z10, so maybe

    Do not like to be negative ... but who knows right

    I personally will love the Z30 ... really love
    09-12-13 01:17 PM
  4. epyon52328's Avatar
    A few sites commenting on a report that the Z30 is currently in acceptance testing at Bell Canada and other large carriers.

    As others mentioned, it is slated for a late September or early October launch.

    The Z30 sports a5-inch display, a 1.7GHz dual-core processor, 8MP camera, 2,880 mAh battery, 16GB internal storage, 2GB RAM

    It will be the last BB10 device for 2013 and will ship with OS 10.2

    Those specs. won't impress possible converts.

    Via my Z10 beta 10.4.1.1338
    Sad but true. The best that BlackBerry can do is be better than windows so people who don't like Android or ios have somewhere to go. But at this point with this ecosystem there really isn't anything to make the masses flock to the Z30.

    Posted via CB10
    09-12-13 01:53 PM
  5. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    So what is BB to do? If they sell on-contract for less than $199, they'll immediately be viewed as a second-tier device. It could be free on-contract and I don't think it'd sell any better. BB needs to make money. They can't simply give away phones for free (or sell them at a loss). If the Z30 takes care of some of the weaknesses of the Z10 (features/functionality/experience - not talking specs), then perhaps they'll get better reviews, and that might spur more interest. Who knows, but I don't think pricing lower than the default $199 will benefit them at all - at least not on initial release. There is a small chance reviewers will give it a positive review with the hardware improvements and the new features and enhancements of 10.2. I suspect, however, it'll still come down paper specs and the negative "too little, too late" mantra. Meaning the Z30 is likely to have at best only marginal success. But who knows.
    Let's just say it like this:

    If we take a serious look at the Z30, it IS a second tier phone.
    But I can totally understand what you are saying.

    Posted via CB10
    09-12-13 02:03 PM
  6. FlashFlare11's Avatar
    So what is BB to do? If they sell on-contract for less than $199, they'll immediately be viewed as a second-tier device. It could be free on-contract and I don't think it'd sell any better. BB needs to make money. They can't simply give away phones for free (or sell them at a loss). If the Z30 takes care of some of the weaknesses of the Z10 (features/functionality/experience - not talking specs), then perhaps they'll get better reviews, and that might spur more interest. Who knows, but I don't think pricing lower than the default $199 will benefit them at all - at least not on initial release. There is a small chance reviewers will give it a positive review with the hardware improvements and the new features and enhancements of 10.2. I suspect, however, it'll still come down paper specs and the negative "too little, too late" mantra. Meaning the Z30 is likely to have at best only marginal success. But who knows.
    Actually, whether it's the Z30 or not, BlackBerry needs to get a BlackBerry 10 device out there for a very cheap (free on contract, even) price. This is where Windows Phone is besting them with the 521 and, yet, Windows Phone has no "cheap"stigma around it.

    People need to try out BlackBerry 10 and lowering the cost of an entry-level device will get people on the platform. Once they enter the ecosystem, it's difficult to leave. Besides, I'm convinced that once people actually use BlackBerry 10, the experience is enough to keep most users. BlackBerry needs to sacrifice a bit for the sake of getting users on the OS.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX and xiaohuaxing like this.
    09-12-13 02:06 PM
  7. ljfong's Avatar
    Actually, whether it's the Z30 or not, BlackBerry needs to get a BlackBerry 10 device out there for a very cheap (free on contract, even) price. This is where Windows Phone is besting them with the 521 and, yet, Windows Phone has no "cheap"stigma around it.

    People need to try out BlackBerry 10 and lowering the cost of an entry-level device will get people on the platform. Once they enter the ecosystem, it's difficult to leave. Besides, I'm convinced that once people actually use BlackBerry 10, the experience is enough to keep most users. BlackBerry needs to sacrifice a bit for the sake of getting users on the OS.

    Posted via CB10
    Unfortunately, BlackBerry the company did not seem to get it, does not seem to get it and most likely will never get it. BlackBerry always seems to react only when it is emergency and prefer to keep head in sand as long as possible. Remember Thor's saying there was absolutely nothing wrong with the company shortly after he took over as CEO.
    h20work likes this.
    09-12-13 02:13 PM
  8. danprown's Avatar
    They have free-on-contract BB10 devices: Z10, Q5, Q10.
    They have "entry-level" devices but they are on a different legacy platform.
    The fundamental problem is that BB10 cannot run on an entry-level device or tablet. It does not scale. They simply did not have the talent to take a 200-person shop (QNX) with an RTOS without any developer support and transform it into a scalable mobile OS. If they had done that, they would have had a tablet, entry-level BB10, mid-level BB10 and high-priced BB10.

    Actually, whether it's the Z30 or not, BlackBerry needs to get a BlackBerry 10 device out there for a very cheap (free on contract, even) price. This is where Windows Phone is besting them with the 521 and, yet, Windows Phone has no "cheap"stigma around it.

    People need to try out BlackBerry 10 and lowering the cost of an entry-level device will get people on the platform. Once they enter the ecosystem, it's difficult to leave. Besides, I'm convinced that once people actually use BlackBerry 10, the experience is enough to keep most users. BlackBerry needs to sacrifice a bit for the sake of getting users on the OS.

    Posted via CB10
    09-12-13 04:10 PM
  9. FlashFlare11's Avatar
    They have free-on-contract BB10 devices: Z10, Q5, Q10.
    They have "entry-level" devices but they are on a different legacy platform.
    The fundamental problem is that BB10 cannot run on an entry-level device or tablet. It does not scale. They simply did not have the talent to take a 200-person shop (QNX) with an RTOS without any developer support and transform it into a scalable mobile OS. If they had done that, they would have had a tablet, entry-level BB10, mid-level BB10 and high-priced BB10.
    None of those devices started at that price on-contract. They started pretty high off-contract as well. This hurt BlackBerry in markets where affordable devices thrive. When BlackBerry replaces the current line-up with new devices, they can use Apple's model of moving previous models down a tier and lower the Z10 and Q10's prices off-contract.
    xiaohuaxing and danprown like this.
    09-12-13 04:27 PM
  10. semperfi45's Avatar
    They have free-on-contract BB10 devices: Z10, Q5, Q10.
    They have "entry-level" devices but they are on a different legacy platform.
    The fundamental problem is that BB10 cannot run on an entry-level device or tablet. It does not scale. They simply did not have the talent to take a 200-person shop (QNX) with an RTOS without any developer support and transform it into a scalable mobile OS. If they had done that, they would have had a tablet, entry-level BB10, mid-level BB10 and high-priced BB10.
    This should have been done when Z 10 entered the market. Once again no need to shut the barn door, the horse is gone.
    danprown likes this.
    09-12-13 04:42 PM
  11. h20work's Avatar
    Anyone really think BlackBerry will price it at $199? My bet is at least $249 on contract. All I have to go on is history.
    FrankIAm likes this.
    09-12-13 07:29 PM
  12. ajst222's Avatar
    Anyone really think BlackBerry will price it at $199? My bet is at least $249 on contract. All I have to go on is history.
    If they were smart they would price their supposed flagship at $199.99. That seems to be the main pricepoint for flagships. When BlackBerry had the Q10 priced at $249.99 I went nuts.
    xiaohuaxing and h20work like this.
    09-12-13 07:53 PM
  13. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Anyone really think BlackBerry will price it at $199? My bet is at least $249 on contract. All I have to go on is history.
    I think this going to depend on how comfortable BlackBerry is in going for a "full court press". I continue to think that BlackBerry has deliberately maintained higher prices to effectively limit the market to the enthusiast base while they make BB10 more appealing.

    BB10 is already MUCH more attractive than it was at launch (and 10.2 makes it considerably more so).

    From the awesome PHYSICAL keyboard of my Q10
    xiaohuaxing and DJM626 like this.
    09-12-13 07:57 PM
  14. badiyee's Avatar
    You know, many of the posters here are demanding a "top tier cutting edge" spec for BlackBerry. I don't think that will ever happen unless BlackBerry deliberately launches phones that are meant to be upgraded every 6 months. Please don't. I hate that. Just like how the OS 5 to OS6 to OS7 cycles. Too fast in between, and too little updates, but locked out to spesific tier models. I don't ever want BlackBerry to return to that mode.

    Secondly, anybody that has done a fair bit of research on BlackBerry's hardware will always notice that they don't always have the state of the art hardware. Look at the so called 5MP lens that BlackBerry had been offering. That was since... when was it? OS6? They're reusing parts that they can use, and continue to push. Anybody that did a research won't be surprised with the way that BlackBerry treats the Q5 because it is exactly what they did with their low end models back during legacy BB OS days.

    Just like Thunderbuck mentioned, if you want a cheaper BlackBerry wait for the newer generation of BlackBerry to arrive. Even then, the latest generation of BlackBerries won't have the "ultra top tier end" of hardware. Look at the Playbook's TI OMAP and Z10's TI OMAP SoCs and you'll understand, that during that transition phase (actually Texas Instruments did announce they were going off the SoC business), but somewhere in between I think it was Samsung or was it HTC went with an upgraded TI OMAP design for their tablets and (none in the phone) just about the time BlackBerry announces the hardware specs.

    That itself already would / should have painted the picture that BlackBerry isn't into the spec war from the early beginning.
    If spec wars are of any benchmark, as long as a BlackBerry device can be on par / hold up against a Nexus device, I think that itself would be a fair strategy for BlackBerry instead of gunning for the super high end spec wars market.
    09-12-13 08:16 PM
  15. xiaohuaxing's Avatar
    Do you really expect people to jump all over the Z30 just because of a bigger battery? That's not a wow factor.
    I'll buy one if it in fact goes 2-3 days on a charge, speak for yourself please. Though not for a dime more than $199, if they price it at $249 like the Q10 they can go screw themselves. If they actually want to increase market share by selling to people other than those on Crackberry, then they need to be thinking either $99 or some other kind of incentive if they are dead set on maintaining the "premium" price tag, like cash for trade-ins. Take the money you're paying Alicia Keys to fund this.
    09-12-13 08:35 PM
  16. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    You know, many of the posters here are demanding a "top tier cutting edge" spec for BlackBerry. I don't think that will ever happen unless BlackBerry deliberately launches phones that are meant to be upgraded every 6 months. Please don't. I hate that. Just like how the OS 5 to OS6 to OS7 cycles. Too fast in between, and too little updates, but locked out to spesific tier models. I don't ever want BlackBerry to return to that mode.

    Secondly, anybody that has done a fair bit of research on BlackBerry's hardware will always notice that they don't always have the state of the art hardware. Look at the so called 5MP lens that BlackBerry had been offering. That was since... when was it? OS6? They're reusing parts that they can use, and continue to push. Anybody that did a research won't be surprised with the way that BlackBerry treats the Q5 because it is exactly what they did with their low end models back during legacy BB OS days.

    Just like Thunderbuck mentioned, if you want a cheaper BlackBerry wait for the newer generation of BlackBerry to arrive. Even then, the latest generation of BlackBerries won't have the "ultra top tier end" of hardware. Look at the Playbook's TI OMAP and Z10's TI OMAP SoCs and you'll understand, that during that transition phase (actually Texas Instruments did announce they were going off the SoC business), but somewhere in between I think it was Samsung or was it HTC went with an upgraded TI OMAP design for their tablets and (none in the phone) just about the time BlackBerry announces the hardware specs.

    That itself already would / should have painted the picture that BlackBerry isn't into the spec war from the early beginning.
    If spec wars are of any benchmark, as long as a BlackBerry device can be on par / hold up against a Nexus device, I think that itself would be a fair strategy for BlackBerry instead of gunning for the super high end spec wars market.
    I think you misunderstood something there...
    It's not about wanting a cheaper device for me, as I can afford my phones on a full price off-contract basis.

    It's about giving the market what it is willing to pay.
    A phone that retails for 600$ off-contract or 199$ on-contract has to fulfil certain criteria the market expects.

    The Z30 exactly offers none, except for the 5 inch screen, but even this one is subpar.
    Ecosystem? Subpar.
    Specs? Subpar.
    Camera? Subpar.
    Experience? BB10 is nice, the 3 points evoked before make for a subpar experience nonetheless.

    If someone wants to buy a 600$ phone, subpar just doesn't cut it.
    That's why I am talking about the price.
    It's not about me wanting to have a cheaper phone, it's about BlackBerry not understanding that their phones aren't worth 600$ to the consumer, even though they would like to sell them for that price.
    (I am talking about the cell-phone market as an aggregate)

    If the Z30 is on par with the Nexus, but costs 300$ more, it already lost the comparison at that point.

    Posted via CB10
    09-12-13 08:38 PM
  17. FlashFlare11's Avatar
    I think you misunderstood something there...
    It's not about wanting a cheaper device for me, as I can afford my phones on a full price off-contract basis.

    It's about giving the market what it is willing to pay.
    A phone that retails for 600$ off-contract or 199$ on-contract has to fulfil certain criteria the market expects.

    The Z30 exactly offers none, except for the 5 inch screen, but even this one is subpar.
    Ecosystem? Subpar.
    Specs? Subpar.
    Camera? Subpar.
    Experience? BB10 is nice, the 3 points evoked before make for a subpar experience nonetheless.

    If someone wants to buy a 600$ phone, subpar just doesn't cut it.
    That's why I am talking about the price.
    It's not about me wanting to have a cheaper phone, it's about BlackBerry not understanding that their phones aren't worth 600$ to the consumer, even though they would like to sell them for that price.
    (I am talking about the cell-phone market as an aggregate)

    If the Z30 is on par with the Nexus, but costs 300$ more, it already lost the comparison at that point.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree with the general point you're making here. I'm more than willing to pay a premium price for a BlackBerry device because I truly enjoy the BlackBerry 10 experience above that of iOS, Windows Phone, and (far and above) Android. However, I do not represent the market and the market has spoken since the launch of the Z10: it's not willing to pay $600 for the BlackBerry 10 experience. Historically BlackBerry has always charged a premium for its devices but at the time, the BlackBerry brand demanded such a price. Today, the brand doesn't command such a notion. It doesn't demand a "cheap" price, but not the premium tier it wants. To get this back, it's going to take some time to refine the OS, build the ecosystem, flesh out the device portfolio, and win users back to the platform.

    Once people get on the BlackBerry 10 train and the aforementioned revisions happen, BlackBerry can, justifiably, with the correct device, begin pricing competitively with the iPhone and other flagships.
    09-12-13 08:57 PM
  18. leehardballer12's Avatar
    If they were smart they would price their supposed flagship at $199.99. That seems to be the main pricepoint for flagships. When BlackBerry had the Q10 priced at $249.99 I went nuts.
    Aren't the latest and greatest flagship devices initially going for $299/ contract these days? It seems to me that $199/ contact would be reasonable. Any less and they would be ripped for placing their latest and greatest in a mid tier category, imo. I'm no expert in marketing or business, just going off what I've been reading and seeing about BlackBerry the past couple of years. They seemed to be damned if they do, damned if they don't....I'm just wondering when the backlash will take place against ridiculous specs for cameras and processors. At what point do people get sick of paying top dollar for the latest and greatest 'specs' that make marginal, at best, improvements?
    09-12-13 09:15 PM
  19. mikeycollins13's Avatar
    Backlash will take place when they write down $250M USD in unsold Z30 inventory because all of about 5 people will show up to buy a phablet with 70,000 fake apps.
    09-13-13 02:44 AM
  20. JasW's Avatar
    Backlash will take place when they write down $250M USD in unsold Z30 inventory because all of about 5 people will show up to buy a phablet with 70,000 fake apps.
    Ouch.

    Because of the uncertainty, if it is in fact released in the US, there might well be demand based upon the fact that it probably would be The Last BlackBerry. Or else all of that unsold -- or withdrawn -- inventory will end up on eBay.

    As I said elsewhere, all of this is eerily reminiscent of what happened with the ill-fated Pre 3 two years ago. A few examples (among a ton) from webOS Nation:

    Pre3 scheduled to be released in August on Verizon!

    A third Pre3 hits the FCC - Sorry, it's GSM

    Just Ran Into Pre 3 Beta Tester Today

    HP Pre3 GSM FCC Application
    09-13-13 06:56 AM
  21. FlashFlare11's Avatar
    Ouch.

    Because of the uncertainty, if it is in fact released in the US, there might well be demand based upon the fact that it probably would be The Last BlackBerry. Or else all of that unsold -- or withdrawn -- inventory will end up on eBay.

    As I said elsewhere, all of this is eerily reminiscent of what happened with the ill-fated Pre 3 two years ago. A few examples (among a ton) from webOS Nation:

    Pre3 scheduled to be released in August on Verizon!

    A third Pre3 hits the FCC - Sorry, it's GSM

    Just Ran Into Pre 3 Beta Tester Today

    HP Pre3 GSM FCC Application
    I can see it now. Every review of the Z30 will be sure to have something along the lines of "what could possibly be the last BlackBerry device ever."
    mikeycollins13 likes this.
    09-13-13 10:25 AM
  22. ajst222's Avatar
    I can see it now. Every review of the Z30 will be sure to have something along the lines of "what could possibly be the last BlackBerry device ever."
    And I wouldn't blame the reviewers hahah. But in all seriousness they did the same with the Z10 for the most part

    Posted via CB10
    09-13-13 10:27 AM
  23. ankush77's Avatar
    Hoping that Z30 proves to be a best selling phone forBB
    09-13-13 01:30 PM
  24. epyon52328's Avatar
    Hoping that Z30 proves to be a best selling phone forBB
    It will likely sell better than the Z10 but unless they pull some great gimic or specs out at the last minute my guess is it won't sell better than the Q10 in the long run.

    Posted via CB10
    09-13-13 02:01 PM
  25. rigwrecker's Avatar
    My Z10 is excellent, but I am going to pick up a Z30 just to support BB. maybe it will be my work phone. lol
    BB12MX likes this.
    09-13-13 02:51 PM
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