09-24-13 08:18 AM
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  1. deadcowboy's Avatar
    Bullhockey you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a phone.

    Pisses me off when people say the same about 720p and 1080p TV. Then people say the same about 4K TVs: "not biologically possible." What about 8K televisions? Have you ever seen a 4K tv with 4K video? Have you ever seen an 8K tv with 8K video? I have. The difference is enormously palpable to the human eye, despite the fact that internet-scientists like to say otherwise.
    oldmanjenkins likes this.
    09-16-13 10:49 AM
  2. techvisor's Avatar
    Bullhockey you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a phone.

    Pisses me off when people say the same about 720p and 1080p TV. Then people say the same about 4K TVs: "not biologically possible." What about 8K televisions? Have you ever seen a 4K tv with 4K video? Have you ever seen an 8K tv with 8K video? I have. The difference is enormously palpable to the human eye, despite the fact that internet-scientists like to say otherwise.
    This is a very interesting issue. It comes down to is screen size, number of pixels, and distance from the display. On a phone at 12 inches away, you probably won;t notice much difference between 720p and 1080. Hold it a little closer and you can start to see the difference. Therefore, if I am purchasing a phone, the difference between 720p and 1080p is relevant to me. Now 1080p vs 4k phone, on the other hand, probably won't make much difference.
    And I agree about Tv's, to me 4k looks much better. This is a great article showing the differences between display standards: CarltonBale.com 1080p Does Matter – Here’s When (Screen Size vs. Viewing Distance vs. Resolution)
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    09-16-13 04:00 PM
  3. deadcowboy's Avatar
    I have read all the articles. They're not taking into account contrast. You might not be able to resolve the details, but color reproduction and contrast offer far more perceived detail. In the case of color, Blu Rays still haven't achieved perfect Kodak reds (though it is so much close than what DVD offered).

    Long story short, there is more to image than fine detail. And that's why 8K looks so much better than 1080p, though the science you're sputtering says they should look the same.
    09-16-13 09:33 PM
  4. anon5288998's Avatar
    No! I already have a 5" paperweight that has low specs: the PlayBook!

    Posted via CB10
    it's 7" and is very usable with flash player support, it has a fast browser only Z10 beats it, high quality build and swipe gestures,
    No other currant 7" tablet can match it.
    mas_quemex and rotorwrench like this.
    09-17-13 07:38 AM
  5. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    it's 7" and is very usable with flash player support, it has a fast browser only Z10 beats it, high quality build and swipe gestures,
    No other currant 7" tablet can match it.
    This surely must be sarcasm....

    Posted via CB10
    Berry_Pink and anon5288998 like this.
    09-17-13 07:44 AM
  6. anon5288998's Avatar
    It's down to price must be competitive with similar phones of the same size. Amoled screen would better and non removable battery is not a problem,I have several phones with sealed battery almost all can be opened up, and those on contract it should last that long,
    Try it and if you like, buy and enjoy.
    rotorwrench likes this.
    09-17-13 07:49 AM
  7. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I don't get the "low spec" argument. If everything runs as fast as my Z10 I'll be a happy camper.

    Only problem : my wife call me "girly", as I have to choose every day between my Q10, Q5, Z10s (LE red or black ?) and soon Z30 #mouhahaha
    anon5288998 and rotorwrench like this.
    09-17-13 07:50 AM
  8. oldmanjenkins's Avatar
    Bullhockey you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a phone.

    Pisses me off when people say the same about 720p and 1080p TV. Then people say the same about 4K TVs: "not biologically possible." What about 8K televisions? Have you ever seen a 4K tv with 4K video? Have you ever seen an 8K tv with 8K video? I have. The difference is enormously palpable to the human eye, despite the fact that internet-scientists like to say otherwise.
    I agree. The just noticeable difference. The human eye cannot distinguish between 2 slightly different resolutions. Double blind the respondents and those displaying a 1020 and 720 and they will have a success rate no better than chance.

    Posted via CB10
    09-17-13 07:53 AM
  9. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Bullhockey you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a phone.

    Pisses me off when people say the same about 720p and 1080p TV. Then people say the same about 4K TVs: "not biologically possible." What about 8K televisions? Have you ever seen a 4K tv with 4K video? Have you ever seen an 8K tv with 8K video? I have. The difference is enormously palpable to the human eye, despite the fact that internet-scientists like to say otherwise.
    It's not (only) about pixels density; "true"-black, "refresh rate", colorimetrics, contrasts, brightness, environment adaptation to name few are somehow more involved here. Apply the same enhancements to previous versions (won't happen, they have to sell new devices) and then, the eye catching will be lowered.

    So I believe you and "internet-scientists" are both right.

    Edit : and note the size of the screen matters. I've seen a demo of a 85" (?) UltraHD TV and yes, it was amazing, sitting right in front of it, I couldn't count a pixel.
    09-17-13 09:27 AM
  10. epyon52328's Avatar
    it's 7" and is very usable with flash player support, it has a fast browser only Z10 beats it, high quality build and swipe gestures,
    No other currant 7" tablet can match it.
    The only thing I can say is I wish it had a smaller bezel and charging/data ports on the side or top. But I still love my tablet.

    Sent from my Q10
    09-17-13 10:42 AM
  11. LWKING's Avatar
    You're right, performance and user experience should be the true measuring stick. But isn't there usually a correlation between specs and performance? I mean aren't we all expecting the Z30 to perform better than the Z10 because it has better specs? When comparing phones with different OS's then I think benchmarks would be a better indicator. However people don't often factor in benchmarks into their purchasing decision. I think benchmarks are often seen as subjective and specs are factual. Specs are also clearly visible on every store tag description, staring at the customer. So as much as we can say specs don't matter, the fact is they really do matter. I think specs are one way BlackBerry could rebuild its image. I think HTC is doing something like this right now. They have some of the best specs available and now Sony is doing the same thing. Now watch, because of this Sony will get lots of attention and probably gain some traction.
    Specs are relative. Aside from the camera and the screen resolution. You cannot directly compare BB10 specs to Android specs -- benchmarks included. Screw the processor, screw the RAM. On 10.2, my Q10 can outpace any Android phone out now in terms of fluidity. How old is BB10 again? Give it a break, BB10 has the most upside potential out of any OS out there.My Q10 is also faster than my 2013 Nexus 7 on stock Android, which is quad core and the best tablet you can buy. For the record, unless it's vanilla Android, those skins on phones slow you down a bit. To hell with the spec argument unless you're talking about resolution and cameras.

    Now I haven't tested gaming since I'm on a Q10, but the Z30 will sport the same GPU and the S4. I expect to be on par or better. Given that it's on BB10, I highly doubt it will be worse.

    For those of you expecting bad reviews of the Z30, check my thread about the Z30 selling. I retract my belief that the phone will sell, but there are plenty of legit reviewers out there and 10.2 is gold.

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    09-17-13 11:07 AM
  12. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    The only thing I can say is I wish it had a smaller bezel and charging/data ports on the side or top. But I still love my tablet.

    Sent from my Q10
    If you don't mind reading BlackBerry upside down, then ... you already have it on the top
    #youHoldItWrong
    09-17-13 11:07 AM
  13. STV0726's Avatar
    Bullhockey you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a phone.

    Pisses me off when people say the same about 720p and 1080p TV. Then people say the same about 4K TVs: "not biologically possible." What about 8K televisions? Have you ever seen a 4K tv with 4K video? Have you ever seen an 8K tv with 8K video? I have. The difference is enormously palpable to the human eye, despite the fact that internet-scientists like to say otherwise.
    Say what you want, believe what you want.

    I agree that the Z30 probably should have had a 1080p screen but for a different reason than you do.

    I do also stand by my opinion/assessment that 1080p on a phone or phablet is not practical enough to make it worthwhile, let alone a deal-breaker. Once we get to tablet size, then we may have a debate.

    I firmly believe that as a side-effect of the spec war Android has spear-headed (more like pushed), certain parts of phone hardware are being pressed too far before the other hardware parts are capable of adequately supporting it, say battery power, for example.

    I'm going to only say this one more time here and you can hold me to that: octacores on phones. Really? No, really? For real?! Dual cores are midrange for desktop computers now, and quad cores are high end for desktops, and many (quite possibly the majority) of common full desktop applications don't even have the programming to take advantage of the four cores.

    You want to put 8 cores on a phone or tablet? Doesn't make logical sense until at least it is already mainstream for desktop computing.

    -STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.4780 TMO US
    rotorwrench likes this.
    09-17-13 12:33 PM
  14. LWKING's Avatar
    If you need 4 cores for your OS to run smoothly, you're doing something wrong in your OS. "Project Butter" should have never been necessary. I'm a huge tech nerd, but I've felt this way since Android was introduced. Android always came off to me as a "college" starter project that was tweaked to make it work big time. The huge hardware boosts are there to cover up the early mistakes . iOS, BB10, and Windows Phone 8 are made right.

    Please, kill this low spec talk unless it has to do with the camera or resolution.

    Oh and my answer is yes, I will buy the Z30 despite low specs
    Last edited by LWKING; 09-17-13 at 01:58 PM.
    09-17-13 01:29 PM
  15. anon5288998's Avatar
    The only thing I can say is I wish it had a smaller bezel and charging/data ports on the side or top. But I still love my tablet.
    Sent from my Q10
    yes a smaller bezel would have been nice and ports at the side, do you use the fast charger with magnetic connector?, it has saved. My playbook many times from falling and terminal damage, its still my favourite tablet.
    09-17-13 01:51 PM
  16. STV0726's Avatar
    If you need 4 cores for your OS to run smoothly, you're doing something wrong in your OS. "Project Butter" should have never been necessary. I'm a huge tech nerd, but I've felt this way since Android was introduced. Android always came off to me as a "college" starter project that was tweaked to make it work big time. The huge hardware boosts are there to cover up the early mistakes . iOS, BB10, and Windows Phone 8 are made right.

    Please, kill this low spec talk unless it has to do with the camera or resolution.

    Oh and my answer is yes, I will buy the Z30 despite low specs
    +1

    I will point out, contrarily, some have said all mobile OSs are made right except BB10 though I'd imagine some would also be in the middle and say all but BB10 and Android are made right.

    There were several users ganging up on BlackBerry 10 and QNX for the way multitasking is implemented and how nowadays you can get almost the same level but more efficiently, apparently like the rest do it. Some said max 8 frames and the 2GB ram requirement = bad implementation.

    I cannot say I agree. But interesting to point out nonetheless.

    -STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.4780 TMO US
    09-17-13 02:39 PM
  17. Asmooh's Avatar
    It has almost the same specs as xperia SP

    And that one is not much slower than xperia Z


    I think the z30 will be faster or around the same as xperia Z

    28/M/SWEDEN -> 2ABA2B4C (NO PEOPLE FROM AFRICA OR ASIA)
    09-17-13 02:41 PM
  18. greggebhardt's Avatar
    Does anyone know if it will have the charging contacts on the bottom so it can be charged in a cradle?
    09-17-13 02:49 PM
  19. LWKING's Avatar
    +1

    I will point out, contrarily, some have said all mobile OSs are made right except BB10 though I'd imagine some would also be in the middle and say all but BB10 and Android are made right.

    There were several users ganging up on BlackBerry 10 and QNX for the way multitasking is implemented and how nowadays you can get almost the same level but more efficiently, apparently like the rest do it. Some said max 8 frames and the 2GB ram requirement = bad implementation.

    I cannot say I agree. But interesting to point out nonetheless.

    -STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.4780 TMO US
    Everybody has different opinions . I'll be honest, I do enjoy the way my Nexus 7 (2013) multitasks. It's very quick, however Android completely shuts down processes when they're not in use. I prefer the way my Q10 does it. I definitely enjoy both products, but I feel like the Nexus 7 is the first Android tablet to really do it for me. Android has been around forever and is only just now getting here. BB10 is still growing up!

    I get what people are saying about the 8 frames max, but I never saw this as a hardware limitation. I always saw it from a more practical standpoint. Anybody that consistently uses 8 frames is a machine. I've only had my Q10 for a bit. Maybe I'll become one of those people and ask for more frames too, but I wouldn't bet on it. My views on the 2GB RAM requirement is that many people misunderstand it. There are dev devices floating around with 1GB of RAM. In fact, the original videos that were leaked of BB10 before the Z10 released were running it on 1GB of RAM. a video of it. The 2GB of RAM argument is completely wrong. Angry Playbook users aren't exactly the most accepting since they got shafted. Therefore, I understand the misunderstanding. BlackBerry could have released a watered down version of BB10 like Apple does with the older versions of the iPhone, but would it have been worth the effort given the numerous sales the Playbook has made? You also have to factor in the older processor in the Playbook, which nobody has done. There's a lot more to the story, but at the end of the day BB10 does not have a 2GB minimum requirement.
    09-17-13 03:14 PM
  20. techvisor's Avatar
    To hell with the spec argument unless you're talking about resolution and cameras.
    [Posted via CB10
    I agree with you except I would add one more spec, which is mainly relevant during a time period that straddles two different cellular standards. For example, having LTE over a 3G protocol like HSPA+ was a huge advantage. All top end smart phones now are 4G LTE, so the cellular radio spec has lost some relevance. But anyways, I basically agree with you.
    09-17-13 09:10 PM
  21. dguy123's Avatar
    I can't see the the Z30 coming out before the company is sold. Who would anyone buy a BlackBerry with such uncertainty? I'm not in business, but for the life of me, why was this announced? Why scare away the few potential buyers left out there? I would love for someone here to give me one good reason. Seriously.

    Posted via CB10
    Based on what? They could release the Z30 at any moment.

    But I agree, generating an environment of rampant uncertainty wasn't such a good move. Hopefully that revolves itself, and very very soon.

    Posted via CB10
    09-17-13 09:19 PM
  22. STV0726's Avatar
    You also have to factor in the older processor in the Playbook, which nobody has done.
    Sold!



    -STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.4780 TMO US
    09-17-13 10:25 PM
  23. Tuco Ramirez's Avatar
    With the company essentially putting themselves up for sale to the highest bidder, I'll be shocked if the Z30 actually gets released. Further to that, my mind will blown if the Z30 actually sells well. Especially when so many mobile shops are deciding to no longer carry Blackberry products, and are returning their inventory.
    09-18-13 01:54 AM
  24. Phaethonas's Avatar
    specs are there to accommodate the operating system.

    From my own experience BB10 is doing excellent job utilising hardware resources opposed to Android that are moving towards a laptop OS.

    Posted via CB10
    LWKING and rotorwrench like this.
    09-18-13 02:49 AM
  25. anon(4086706)'s Avatar
    Specs don't mean anything if BB10 handles memory better AND can run both Native and Android apps side by side. Plus it prevents overheating the phone due to high specs.. would you want an over-worked Octa or Quad core CPU? That's gonna bring a lot of heat and can kill battery.
    rotorwrench likes this.
    09-18-13 03:02 AM
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