07-15-13 11:14 PM
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  1. agp101's Avatar
    The market is more than one screen size or resolution. Different types desire different experiences. Like other posters have pointed out, we don't actually know what the specs will even be. But, that being said there is no one answer when it comes to what consumers want.

    I will say that Google will be trying to differentiate themselves with optimized and unique software. The spec war is ending. It was fun while it lasted but the real winners of the next phase will have the best experience. The octacore processor will still be pitched by salesmen to teenage boys but most others will seek the best experience. I think even Samsung is realizing that.


    Posted via CB10
    The next phase isn't here yet. That's not how to make money in the present. That's the goal. To make money. For the 5+ inch screen size market, the desired experience in specs is very important. Z10 at 4.2" is okay with current specs. 5+ and it's different territory. A territory where specs matter as much as experience. We all know the A10 won't sell well if it has the rumored specs. Who cares about what the experience is like. It won't sell. Period. I'm certain of it. Then where will your experience talk stand?

    Sent from CB forums app with... (you can't handle this, it's not a bb)
    07-15-13 12:40 PM
  2. agp101's Avatar
    Sales reps aren't looking at specs when selling. They're looking at what phones are easily sales for their customers. $0 phones and phones that won't give them any problems (i.e., customer coming back with issues).


    I think it's rare that a customer walks in an says, "I want the most expensive phone you have and/or the phone with the greatest performance "



    Posted via CB10
    About as rare as the amount of owners with a Note 2. There is a market for it. Gotta realize that.

    Sent from CB forums app with... (you can't handle this, it's not a bb)
    07-15-13 12:42 PM
  3. LWKING's Avatar
    The 720 resolution is final. It always has been final. Blackberry said this from the very beginning and they're keeping that promise. Idk what the fuss is about. Take it or leave it, but wait until you hold the phone in front of you before you say that the screen sucks.

    Also, Blackberry is testing multiple versions of the phone. We should all wait and see what is left to be seen. Personally, I'm hoping for an A10 with a smaller screen ~ 4.65." I doubt that will happen though.

    For the record, almost ANY phone you get nowadays is going to have a really good screen resolution. The spec race is coming to an end as you will soon see. The benefits from improved hardware is diminishing and becoming less cost-effective. In 2014, user experience and design will take over. Bet on it.

    Blackberry is in the experience game, not the spec game so they're positioned for a strong 2014. They'll have a more polished OS, a better Android app experience, cross platform BBM, and I have a hunch that we'll finally see some real US marketing. Why waste money marketing the Z10 when the experience wasn't what quite what it could have been due to the lack of carrier updates? Better to play it safe under the radar if you ask me. I have full faith in Blackberry that the BB10 experience in the A10 will be phenomenal, especially with 10.2 around the corner. Future updates will push it even further. Let's just wait and see what they have in store.
    07-15-13 12:46 PM
  4. LWKING's Avatar
    For all of you experts, answer me this. It'll be fun I promise. The Xperia line from Sony and the Optimus line from LG have killer specs. How many people do you know that own them?

    Oh! Here's another one! How well known is it that iPhones have lower specs compared to the top android phones? What's the best selling phone in the US?

    Look. Apple, gets it. Samsung, gets it. Sony is clueless. HTC is getting there and Blackberry is yet to be determined. The majority of the people here don't get it. Hell I probably don't even get it, but hindsight is 20/20. The secret isn't in killer specs (although it doesn't hurt) so please, lets put down the pitchforks.
    Unbiased Tech and xBURK like this.
    07-15-13 01:03 PM
  5. Unbiased Tech's Avatar
    For all of you experts, answer me this. It'll be fun I promise. The Xperia line from Sony and the Optimus line from LG have killer specs. How many people do you know that own them?

    Oh! Here's another one! How well known is it that iPhones have lower specs compared to the top android phones? What's the best selling phone in the US?

    Look. Apple, gets it. Samsung, gets it. Sony is clueless. HTC is getting there and Blackberry is yet to be determined. The majority of the people here don't get it. Hell I probably don't even get it, but hindsight is 20/20. The secret isn't in killer specs (although it doesn't hurt) so please, lets put down the pitchforks.
    Apple: Cult fan base with hundreds of millions of users that will upgrade every year in droves. And they basically have every app and get moat popular apps first.

    Sony: the Xperia Z wasn't released on any carriers until now with T-Mobile (US). Also I don't think I've seen previous Xperia devices outside of AT&T (could be wrong) but Carrier exclusives usually don't lead to good market share.

    Samsung: Top of the line specs and top of the line marketing

    HTC: The One is actually selling pretty well, what pisses people off about them is not upgrading their phones that have similar specs to competitors that get updated regularly. Also their marketing is pretty bad


    I agree with some of your points though, these are simply leaks and I'm perfectly happy with my Z10 either way. I think we both can agree that having amazing specs would be really good.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-13 01:20 PM
  6. Nathan Bael's Avatar
    Can someone tell me the point is to this thread?

    Agreed, if we're talking about a 720 screen and the same SoC as a Z10, there's absolutely no compelling reason to buy. Since we haven't actually had that confirmed (and there's been at least one rumor that we'll be looking at quad-core and 4GB RAM, so I'm not convinced myself), I don't see the point in slamming BlackBerry over specs that may or may not be accurate. Should we just start spreading better rumors?

    Wake me up when we get an actual spec release.
    While I am all for slamming bad products, I also agree that we need to wait until we get the real specs.
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    07-15-13 01:20 PM
  7. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Good reply. Though I still see no harm in discussing the A10.

    Sent from CB forums app with... (you can't handle this, it's not a bb)
    This appears to be less a discussion of the A10 than an excuse to bash BlackBerry for failing to spec it adequately. That seems premature since we don't actually have specs yet anyway.

    I don't get the endless argument. It's either going to be good enough, and you buy it, or it isn't, and you don't. How much more discussion does that really require?

    From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10
    xBURK likes this.
    07-15-13 01:25 PM
  8. agp101's Avatar
    This appears to be less a discussion of the A10 than an excuse to bash BlackBerry for failing to spec it adequately. That seems premature since we don't actually have specs yet anyway.

    I don't get the endless argument. It's either going to be good enough, and you buy it, or it isn't, and you don't. How much more discussion does that really require?

    From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10
    I'm sure BlackBerry appreciates the discussion. They can handle it. You should be able to handle it too.

    Sent from CB forums app with... (you can't handle this, it's not a bb)
    07-15-13 01:55 PM
  9. Dan Lam's Avatar
    I think the "if you don't like it then why are you posting about it?" argument is so childish. This is a discussion board, and the reality is, the leaked specs have been unimpressive thus far, and people are going to talk about it one way or another. This is the tunnel vision mentality that I'm talking about, where BB users will always disregard information and fall into some fantasy world where BB will just somehow succeed without any changes. I had that same mentality, and I lost a lot of money on June 28th. I want Blackberry to succeed just as much as you do if not more.

    Everybody knows what the general public thinks of Blackberry right now, but nobody here is willing to accept it for some reason. To the majority of the general public out there, Blackberry is dying. You don't change that mentality by being sub-par with your newest flagship product. Just take a look at the poll on whether or not people on this BB forum are impressed enough to switch to the A10 and you already see how underwhelming the leaks have been thus far. How do you honestly think NON-Blackberry Diehards will feel? Probably even less optimistic.

    I get that whatever the specs are for the A10 are pretty much set already, but that doesn't mean that we as consumers can't express out opinions. This #BBorGTFO mentality here is really doing nobody any favors here.

    For what it's worth, I've been trying to find every reason to hold off to buy the A10 on release, but I'm not gonna lie, I'm probably just going to pick up the Moto X, even though I haven't tried Android before. I just can't wait forever for BB to listen to our needs as a consumer, and I'm sure there are a lot of people out there thinking the same thing.
    agp101 likes this.
    07-15-13 02:49 PM
  10. VizN's Avatar
    Oh BlackBerry is in so much danger right now. they are desperate and they need people to buy their phones to stay slightly relevant. Even though the A10 isn't sold right now, how many people are reading the specs and saying? "720p, dual core? ok forget it, i'm not going to wait anymore and buy an android or an iphone"

    if you're right that the specs have been set and purchased, and that the a10 will only be getting dual core, 720p and that massive bezel, that just proves nothing has changed about BlackBerry besides it's name. what a near-sighted company that promised not to be stagnant.

    if they had put 2gb of ram in the playbook we wouldn't be crying about not having bb10 on it.

    1080p is a standard now, and soon to be an obsolete feature. handset makers are now moving on to the next big thing - waterproof phones.
    Samsung Galaxy Note 3 Active, Galaxy S4 Rivaled by BlackBerry A10 & Galaxy S3 Straight to Android 5.0 Key Lime Pie? - International Business Times

    it's important to look at your competitors and listen to your customers and acting quickly. look at xbox one, they got destroyed by sony and the ps4's plan. what did MS do? they observed and listened and now they're offering a competitive package. BlackBerry needs to do the same.

    BlackBerry needs to change their slogan from "keep moving" to "too little, too late", "a few steps behind" , "yesterday's technology, today", "who needs tablets?", "we hear you, but we're not listening"


    It is most likely true that BlackBerry doesn't care about producing phones with better specs and more pixels if doing so would not benefit the user experience. They are not Samsung or Apple who would like to convince the public that the next big thing is waterproof phones.

    For BlackBerry, this is the next big thing:


    The only reason people say it's "too little, too late" is simply because it's too much, too soon for the ordinary person and general public to understand how they are ten steps ahead.
    07-15-13 02:52 PM
  11. notfanboy's Avatar
    [/HL]


    For BlackBerry, this is the next big thing:


    The only reason people say it's "too little, too late" is simply because it's too much, too soon for the ordinary person and general public to understand how they are ten steps ahead.
    BTW that's a Cisco commercial.

    This vision is already happening today. And BB hardly ten steps ahead, all these companies in the graphic below are already bringing products to the market. With BB it's still vague hand waving about "mobile computing platforms".

    cgk, rnhld and h20work like this.
    07-15-13 03:08 PM
  12. grover5's Avatar
    The next phase isn't here yet. That's not how to make money in the present. That's the goal. To make money. For the 5+ inch screen size market, the desired experience in specs is very important. Z10 at 4.2" is okay with current specs. 5+ and it's different territory. A territory where specs matter as much as experience. We all know the A10 won't sell well if it has the rumored specs. Who cares about what the experience is like. It won't sell. Period. I'm certain of it. Then where will your experience talk stand?

    Sent from CB forums app with... (you can't handle this, it's not a bb)
    Your declaring something aggressively and confidently won't make it any more or less likely to happen. I suppose my experience talk stands close to where your spec talk stands, on an anonymous forum for people with too much time to waste on their obsession for portable computing devices.
    07-15-13 03:09 PM
  13. VizN's Avatar
    BTW that's a Cisco commercial.

    This vision is already happening today. And BB hardly ten steps ahead, all these companies in the graphic below are already bringing products to the market. With BB it's still vague hand waving about "mobile computing platforms".

    http://i.imgur.com/Z0mo1Ct.jpg
    A graphic picture of the "internet of things landscape" may be nicely put together, but it does not tell us anything. There is no reason why BlackBerry/QNX can't have their logo included in the mobile category. To exclude it was simply the poor decision of this venture capital company, that is, in my opinion.
    Last edited by VizN; 07-15-13 at 06:25 PM.
    07-15-13 06:14 PM
  14. notfanboy's Avatar
    A graphic picture of the "internet of things landscape" may be nicely put together, but it does not tell us anything. There is no reason why BlackBerry/QNX can't have their logo included in the mobile category. To exclude it was simply the poor decision of this venture capital company, that is, in my opinion.
    I put up the graphic merely as a counter the assertion that BB was "ten steps ahead" in this space. The graphic tells us that this is an existing active marketplace despite Thorsten's statements that BB is pioneering a new "mobile computing platform".
    h20work likes this.
    07-15-13 07:13 PM
  15. sportline's Avatar
    My z10 obviously feels and look cheap next to xperia z i bought 2 weeks ago.

    Z10, Indonesia
    07-15-13 07:15 PM
  16. grover5's Avatar
    I put up the graphic merely as a counter the assertion that BB was "ten steps ahead" in this space. The graphic tells us that this is an existing active marketplace despite Thorsten's statements that BB is pioneering a new "mobile computing platform".
    Maybe this represents step 14 and BlackBerry has been active since step 4.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-13 07:19 PM
  17. lnichols's Avatar
    The moto X will be 720p with a dual core processor. If you look on the android forums most are defending it. Saying 720p and dual core is enough if the software is optimized to run smooth. I don't think 1080p will be the standard.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't think the Moto X is considered a Flagship. Rumors are a low off contract price. If BlackBerry doesn't have have a 1080 screen then the phone needs to be priced lower than the GS4. They need to stop pricing their gear at a premium if they aren't delivering premium specs.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-13 09:30 PM
  18. grover5's Avatar
    I don't think the Moto X is considered a Flagship. Rumors are a low off contract price. If BlackBerry doesn't have have a 1080 screen then the phone needs to be priced lower than the GS4. They need to stop pricing their gear at a premium if they aren't delivering premium specs.

    Posted via CB10
    You might be right but my sense tells me nonsensical specs are not long for the industry. Sales don't warrant it and the consumers aren't buying for those reasons anymore. The industry is shifting and I think the moto X is trying to catch that shift first. We have no clue what BlackBerry has for a price point or the actual final specs. But the days of people paying $250 to $300 for 1080p every two to three years on contract are dead in my opinion.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-13 09:47 PM
  19. h20work's Avatar
    A graphic picture of the "internet of things landscape" may be nicely put together, but it does not tell us anything. There is no reason why BlackBerry/QNX can't have their logo included in the mobile category. To exclude it was simply the poor decision of this venture capital company, that is, in my opinion.
    Can you give some examples of what bbry is doing with the "Internet of things"? Other than the qnx demo bentley, I'm struggling to think of anything. Other companies are making products that work with iPhones and droid that allow home automation, lighting, etc.

    Bbry keeps talking about the future of mobile computing, while the competition is delivering it.
    07-15-13 09:49 PM
  20. h20work's Avatar
    You might be right but my sense tells me nonsensical specs are not long for the industry. Sales don't warrant it and the consumers aren't buying for those reasons anymore. The industry is shifting and I think the moto X is trying to catch that shift first. We have no clue what BlackBerry has for a price point or the actual final specs. But the days of people paying $250 to $300 for 1080p every two to three years on contract are dead in my opinion.

    Posted via CB10
    A lot of people said the same thing about the pc market. No one could ever need larger than a 20mb hard drive. 1ghz processor??? No way, people only use pc's for word processing and spreadsheets! Pc's are crazy spec'd now and for the most part, dirt cheap.

    I do agree with the contract pricing and 24mo terms. I'm done with that, paid full pop for my Z on tmo. I think if anything, we will see contracts shorten and off contract prices drop. Those who can offer the best bang for the buck will do well, those who can't not so much.
    07-15-13 09:59 PM
  21. grover5's Avatar
    A lot of people said the same thing about the pc market. No one could ever need larger than a 20mb hard drive. 1ghz processor??? No way, people only use pc's for word processing and spreadsheets! Pc's are crazy spec'd now and for the most part, dirt cheap.

    I do agree with the contract pricing and 24mo terms. I'm done with that, paid full pop for my Z on tmo. I think if anything, we will see contracts shorten and off contract prices drop. Those who can offer the best bang for the buck will do well, those who can't not so much.
    I think your point might be more valid if the low specs weren't 2 GB of ram with 1.5 to 1.7 ghz dual core processors with up to 80 GBS of storage. Those low specs are ok today, yesterday and tomorrow if you have good software.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-13 10:06 PM
  22. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I think your point might be more valid if the low specs weren't 2 GB of ram with 1.5 to 1.7 ghz dual core processors with up to 80 GBS of storage. Those low specs are ok today, yesterday and tomorrow if you have good software.

    Posted via CB10
    One other possibility: an easy (and cheap) way for BB to differentiate this as a premium phone would be for them to build in more flash memory. With the kind of price they're apparently looking at for this phone, they could likely do 32GB internal memory pretty easily.

    There are a very few specs that can change at the last minute. That's one of them.
    grover5 likes this.
    07-15-13 10:50 PM
  23. avidberry's Avatar
    Aww come on... I assume most of us are here in CB because we love or used to love BB and don't want it to fail even further. That said, we need to be honest and open minded about the real condition. To say your priority is the KEYBOARD and that BB delivered it well which make you feel satisfied is rather sad for general public (non BB die-hard). While others compete in screen, apps, camera, etc; BB brought the best virtual keyboard to the market. Really?? Isn't it obvious why Z10 failed to make a dent even in historically BB's stronghold? Plus, for me, adding $4 for SwiftKey dilute Z10 keyboard's superiority significantly. Let's not even start with flow typing.

    =The Z10 provides the BEST keyboard smart capability functionality. For me "this" is the priority. BB10's Z10 experience is/and has been superior/unmatched PERIOD in this area. So you like your HTC One experience. Good for you. Am sure I love my Z10 experience just as much. . I would say Keep it moving BlackBerry. Whoever you are, I believe the A10 will be a nice addition to the BlackBerry family of phones, and communication systems with or without you.
    07-15-13 10:59 PM
  24. Pard's Avatar
    Because they don't have the resources or scale to fight the app war and win. Is it feasible to offer BlackBerry trusted Android apps in BlackBerry World? What would it take? If BlackBerry wants to grow share who are they trying to impress? Tech geeks who can sideload apps or my wife and her friends who have to have Instagram without complications.
    07-15-13 11:10 PM
  25. Tony Ak's Avatar
    I agree with the OP. If the specs are going to stay like this, at least make then phone a little more attractive

    Posted via CB10 using BBZ10
    07-15-13 11:14 PM
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