[Dave Bourque]

That leaves BlackBerry at best communication and everything else device once 10.2 is out.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

That leaves BlackBerry at best communication and everything else device once 10.2 is out.

Posted via CB10

If you think that warrants a price tag of 600$ for the Z30, this is your call to make.
But the Q5's price of 400 $/Euro was a testament of insanity, from BlackBerry's part.

And the market reaction for the prices of the Z10 and the Q5 pretty much have proven that the general public has no interest in these devices, for the price they launched for.

The same, since the structure of the market hasn't changed in a positif way for hardware manufacturers, will apply for the Z30 if they voluntarily price the phone out of the region the market can accept.

If 10.2 doesn't offer significantly more than headless apps and actionable notifications, there also will be no leapfrogging of the competition in any meaningful way
(as I use some leaks for quite some time now, I should know).

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[Dave Bourque]

The Z10 was 600... why would the Z30 be priced for less... 600 for Z30 for launch is fair.

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[MarsupilamiX]

The Z10 was 600... why would the Z30 be priced for less... 600 for Z30 for launch is fair.

Posted via CB10

As I said, that is your decision.
But to answer your question why it should be priced less:

Because the Hardware it will offer will be pretty much on par with a Google Nexus that sells for 250-300$.
Or a Samsung Galaxy S3 that retails for 340$ right now.

If I would think about the chinese manufacturers, I'll get phones for 199$ that have a 1080p display and similar specs as the Z30 has.

The market decided 2 things:
1) if you are selling your phones for a MASSIVE premium, but you aren't Apple, then you will fail.

2) if you want to sell phones successfully for the iPhone's price, you need specs that are top-notch.

BlackBerry tries to change this paradigm, by doing exactly what Apple does: use specs that aren't expensive and sell them for a premium.

Well, it didn't work with their first 3 phones and the Z10 now retails for about 350-400$...
Why should that change with the Z30?
Because the screen is 0.8 inches bigger?
Because the ecosystem is sooooo good, that one dev has submitted 50k apps (from a total of 150k)?

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[Dave Bourque]

The ecosystem goes beyond the app store in my opinion. So this is a non issue for me. And marketing is the reason why they didn't sell as well as they could... and sales personnel they have people left and right driving people away from BlackBerry even if they ask for it...

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[walt63]

Okay. When it comes to specs, people must use the term adequate correctly.

Adequate means that's it's enough and capable to the job. Just because the specs are over the top, it doesn't mean they are terrible.

If the Z30 can perform like a champ without over the top specs, why complain?

It's not always about the size, it's sometimes about performance. That goes for everything in life.

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[MarsupilamiX]

The ecosystem goes beyond the app store in my opinion. So this is a non issue for me. And marketing is the reason why they didn't sell as well as they could... and sales personnel they have people left and right driving people away from BlackBerry even if they ask for it...

Posted via CB10

Marketing is one issue. Price and ecosystem are the other 2.

In my personal opinion, price trumps both, but the reason for that is pretty simple:
Nobody whines because the Nokia Lumia 520 hasn't got the most apps, or the best camera or the best...
But it performs wonderfully for a smartphone that costs 99$ and as we have seen, doesn't sell badly.

A smaller price, makes you forget shortcomings because:
"You get what you pay for."

I hope that you'll be happy with your Z30, but I decided that if I'll pay 600$ for my next phone anyhow, it sure as hell won't be for a phone that doesn't use hardware from this year.
My next phone will be the Samsung Galaxy Note 3.
My reasoning is simple: I can't justify to buy a Z30, if it has the exact same price as the Note 3 but offers far less.

I am not alone with that reasoning and I'll be the first to jump on a BB10 device with 1080p, a quadcore, etc.
But I sure as hell won't pay 600$ so I can get a Z10 that is 0.8 inches taller.

Okay. When it comes to specs, people must use the term adequate correctly.

Adequate means that's it's enough and capable to the job. Just because the specs are over the top, it doesn't mean they are terrible.

If the Z30 can perform like a champ without over the top specs, why complain?

It's not always about the size, it's sometimes about performance. That goes for everything in life.

Posted via CB10

I agree with you. If the specs do the job, there is no need to complain.

If they sell me a phone that is worth 250$, for 600$, then I have a reason to complain.

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[szlevi]

MarsupilamiX,

I command your patience - I stopped responding to Dave Bourque some time ago, he's so far out there it makes no sense, let alone his lack of understanding about even basic technical issues.
You're wasting your time, trust me (actually you can see it yourself.)

[MarsupilamiX]

MarsupilamiX,

I command your patience - I stopped responding to Dave Bourque some time ago, he's so far out there it makes no sense, let alone his lack of understanding about even basic technical issues.
You're wasting your time, trust me (actually you can see it yourself.)

Thank you, but I rather see it as an intellectual exercice at this point in time.
It helps me to brainstorm a little bit and through writing in down, I myself gain a better understanding of the market as I am also presented with the "arguments" of a certain target audience.

I actually have no problem with Dave, as long as there isn't any needless bashing of other platforms.
That he has his preferences is totally understandable and I myself enjoy the BB10 experience as well.

The problem is, that BlackBerry won't survive alone thanks to buyers like him, or early adopters like me.
The cellphone market is a constantly evolving one, where 6 months of stagnation or in BlackBerry's case, 3 years of stagnation, can destroy a company.

I still have some faith in BlackBerry and BB10 but at this point in time, having faith in the Z30 is a very tough call, as the phone answers exactly no question the market has posed.

My only hope for that device is a competitif price...

Posted via CB10

[LWKING]

I agree, with Dave, but I also agree with MarsupilamiX. szlevi is something else .

Let's get to it. The Z30 will be an amazing device when it releases. It will get much better reviews than the Z10 and Q10 ever did. Unfortunately, great reviews won't be enough to make this phone sell. They need to market it like HELL, get Instagram and Skype (at the minimum), and price it cheaper than the competition. When you're coming from the bottom, you have to offer an incentive to validate a purchase. Pricing the phone as a mid range device coupled with stellar reviews and COMMERCIALS will add value to the Z30. The good thing is that many Android users are technically literate. They'll figure out how to side-load no problem. In my previous thread, I said that if the Z30 had all of these, it would sell. Unfortunately, I don't think it will given the news that BlackBerry is up for sale. The Z30 is competition to no one until the company receives good press.

[szlevi]

FYI the amount noise by the clueless (eg DB) here is well above tolerable for days now so I pretty much stopped following any discussion because they are simply full of idiotic declarative posts (eg pretty much any recent post made by DB.)

[wincyUt]

But loses that advantage to waterproofing, superior camera, better design(though this is subjective) and premium materials. I get that you love your bb but truth is, to the average consumer the Z1 paints a prettier picture than the Z30.

Sent from my LT28i using Tapatalk 2

Have you actually used a Z30 before? Last time I checked the phone hasn't been launched yet. How can you compare an actual against an abstract? The specs may not be exactly what is floating around right now. I would suggest you come back to this topic when the beautiful beast, Z30/A10 lands.

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[LWKING]

But loses that advantage to waterproofing, superior camera, better design(though this is subjective) and premium materials. I get that you love your bb but truth is, to the average consumer the Z1 paints a prettier picture than the Z30.

Sent from my LT28i using Tapatalk 2

Nobody is going to take a dive in a pool with their phone, waterproof or not. The rice in bag method will still be used. I don't think it'll be that big of a motivator since most people don't usually lose their phones to H20. The camera is superior. When you start to talk about premium materials, I want to pull a szlevi and call you an *****. Coming from a guy with a BS in ME, most people who use the words "premium materials" know nothing about materials. You don't know what that metal is that's on the Z1. Judging from the back of the Z1, the Z30 will hold up better under regular wear. Do you even know what glass weave is? Don't tell me, you think the HTC One is a phone with premium materials, don't you?

Excuse the venting, I just reaaally hate that.

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[luisoman2000]

Nobody is going to take a dive in a pool with their phone, waterproof or not. The rice in bag method will still be used. I don't think it'll be that big of a motivator since most people don't usually lose their phones to H20. The camera is superior. When you start to talk about premium materials, I want to pull a szlevi and call you an *****. Coming from a guy with a BS in ME, most people who use the words "premium materials" know nothing about materials. You don't know what that metal is that's on the Z1. Judging from the back of the Z1, the Z30 will hold up better under regular wear. Do you even know what glass weave is? Don't tell me, you think the HTC One is a phone with premium materials, don't you?

Excuse the venting, I just reaaally hate that.

Posted via CB10

Diving aside, waterproof is a very nice feature to have, especially on such an expensive phone. A spilled glass, rain, heck even an accidental drop on the porcelain throne could ruin any phone.
About materials i get your point, but consider this: ive held a Z in my hands and it looks premium and feels premium. You cant say the same as other flagships that use plastic(im looking at you galaxy s4!). The Z30 will probably be a well built device, but my questions are :will it feel expensive? will it look expensive? the z1 definitely does.

Have you actually used a Z30 before? Last time I checked the phone hasn't been launched yet. How can you compare an actual against an abstract? The specs may not be exactly what is floating around right now. I would suggest you come back to this topic when the beautiful beast, Z30/A10 lands.

Posted via CB10

In all fairness you do have a valid point. A head to head will be very interesting.

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[Revolver]

I don't like being a pessimist, but I don't see the z30 doing well against the z1 or others like it.

People keep saying the specs don't matter because the user experience of BB10 is better, but that isn't really true when you include app availability into the user experience (as it should be).

Lots of people make their upgrade choice in store, where the sales rep isn't going to mention BB unless the customer brings it up, and they're going to say "well, with BB you're getting lower grade specs and it won't have the apps you want." The customer might go look at it anyways, and it'll feel good and premium in the hand (so will the z1), they'll get frustrated by not knowing gestures, the sales rep will be of no help in learning and mention how "BB is going bankrupt anyways, so the phone won't be supported a month from now", then the customer will buy the (insert other phone here).

Sad but true.

I'm not saying BB should be putting in the absolute latest and greatest, that will always be a losing battle with the upgrade pace of Android phones. However, it does need to meet the current "buzz words", such as "1080p" , "quad-core", and "super awesome camera hardware" whether it has to have them or not. That said, internal hardware isn't BB's biggest problem, so much as getting people to realize BB10 exist. Many people I talk to are surprised BB still exist, much less releasing phones.

[AfterHoursWelds]

I really want a dust proof phone as I'm a welder and fine particles of steel dust continually find their way onto my phone speakers.

But I just don't want to use the Android Platform, I like the BB10 too much.

Posted via CB10

[LWKING]

Diving aside, waterproof is a very nice feature to have, especially on such an expensive phone. A spilled glass, rain, heck even an accidental drop on the porcelain throne could ruin any phone.
About materials i get your point, but consider this: ive held a Z in my hands and it looks premium and feels premium. You cant say the same as other flagships that use plastic(im looking at you galaxy s4!). The Z30 will probably be a well built device, but my questions are :will it feel expensive? will it look expensive? the z1 definitely does.

I dropped my 9650 in the toilet once. I also had it drenched in rain multiple times. That thing just kept on going. The water damage seal is fully red. Idk. Maybe full waterproof is necessary for some, but I think I can get along fine without it. I trust this Q10 in water more than my 9650 anyday.


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