07-23-13 02:23 PM
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  1. JR A's Avatar
    I posted this in the comments section on one of the blog articles...

    I'm tired of people making excuses for BBRY.

    There is a NOTICEABLE and significant difference between 720 vs 1080, especially at the 5" display. I instantly noticed a significant difference between my 4.7" 720 display Nexus 4 and the 4.7" 1080 display on the HTC One. At 5", the difference will be even more pronounced.

    People who are buying 5"+ devices are buying it for the display. For most consumers, they'll opt for the Samsung S4 or LG Optimus G Pro. By the time the A10 comes to market, the S4 and G Pro will have a price drop, and the A10 will be sporting a "flagship" pricetag, which will put off potential customers even more. Shoot, the even older Note 2 will be at a HUGE discount compared to the A10 at the time of launch, and the Note 2 has similar specs and brand recognition/track record.

    What I don't get is why BBRY chose to have quad core GPU, yet only at 720. Hopefully by the time this thing comes to market, it sports a 1080 screen, but it seems that's not very likely to happen.

    I'm not a spec-Nazi, but enough with the "there isn't much difference to the human eye between 720 or 1080" BS. Even if you can't notice it yourself (even though I do and many other people), BBRY should offer a premium phone in all facets if they're going to deliver a flagship phone at a flagship price. And please don't try to pull up the "mobile data" BS either. I pay for 15 GB of LTE data per month and have 100Mb down wifi connection in the office and home. That alone is more reason why I should be reaping the benefits of every penny I pay for data, which includes the best looking content I can have, NOT a second rate display (especially when other flagship phones have 1080p already).

    It seems as if BBRY always makes a serious attempt to bring to market a flagship phone, but something, just ONE thing, ends up holding it back in a big way for most people *cough* 9900 crappy camera *cough*. The Z10 is a great device, and in that case the only thing holding it back was lack of name-brand apps, but that is only partially BBRY's fault. This time the display is what holds back the A10 and that is every bit 100% in BBRY's control.
    Thoughts?
    szlevi and andyrew510 like this.
    07-15-13 09:47 PM
  2. Kris Simundson's Avatar
    thoughts? don't believe everything you read till it comes directly from the horses mouth.
    Barracuda7772 and SDTRMG like this.
    07-15-13 09:51 PM
  3. jonty12's Avatar
    The video of the "A10" that has leaked is clearly not a 1280 x 720 (or 768) display. There's room for a fifth row of icons. Maybe even five and a half rows. That is NOT the same as the Z10 - it's more than 1280 lines.
    Novaone likes this.
    07-15-13 09:55 PM
  4. JR A's Avatar
    thoughts? don't believe everything you read till it comes directly from the horses mouth.
    That's normally my way of thinking. But this is BBRY we're talking about, so I wouldn't put it past them to release a 720p flgaship phone. Not trying to make a cheap shot, but that's just honestly what it has come to.

    The video of the "A10" that has leaked is clearly not a 1280 x 720 (or 768) display. There's room for a fifth row of icons. Maybe even five and a half rows. That is NOT the same as the Z10 - it's more than 1280 lines.
    I'm not good at math, but I hope you're right!

    I wan't one of these bad boys, and I want to make sure it's worth the money!
    07-15-13 09:58 PM
  5. LazyEvul's Avatar
    Assuming the specs are true:

    BlackBerry had a difficult decision to make here. They promised app developers to keep the screen resolutions consistent on BlackBerry 10 - 720p for full-touch devices, and 720x720 for QWERTY devices. The Z10 was supposed to be the only exception to this, with the 1280 x 768 resolution. To turn around on this promise and launch a 1080p device, without having even launched a 720p device in the first place, would probably tick off a number of developers during a time when they need as many as they can get. It could potentially damage the company's credibility as well, after already being tarnished by the difficult decision made with BB10 for the PlayBook.

    I'm not even going to bother delving into the whole "Oh, your eyes can't see the ppi difference!" argument - 1080p would look better to the unassuming consumer. Whether they can see the difference or not, it's another "bigger is better" figure for them, especially since the competition has been rocking 1080p since the beginning of the year. But I think BlackBerry just decided to hold off on a 1080p device so they can fulfill their promises, and not risk pissing off valuable people right now.

    If the specs are wrong and they have indeed gone 1080p, then they've gone for the flip-side - risk ticking off valuable people in order to look good in front of the general consumer. But I won't be at all surprised if the device ends up 720p.
    Novaone and Jaguarandine like this.
    07-15-13 09:59 PM
  6. neilmann's Avatar
    ...They promised app developers to keep the screen resolutions consistent on BlackBerry 10 - 720p for full-touch devices, and 720x720 for QWERTY devices. The Z10 was supposed to be the only exception to this, with the 1280 x 768 resolution...
    Here is the devblog article announcing the standard resolutions for BB10 devices:
    Standardizing on Screen Resolutions for BlackBerry 10 devices BlackBerry Developer Blog
    07-15-13 10:48 PM
  7. STV0726's Avatar
    Assuming the specs are true:

    BlackBerry had a difficult decision to make here. They promised app developers to keep the screen resolutions consistent on BlackBerry 10 - 720p for full-touch devices, and 720x720 for QWERTY devices. The Z10 was supposed to be the only exception to this, with the 1280 x 768 resolution. To turn around on this promise and launch a 1080p device, without having even launched a 720p device in the first place, would probably tick off a number of developers during a time when they need as many as they can get. It could potentially damage the company's credibility as well, after already being tarnished by the difficult decision made with BB10 for the PlayBook.

    I'm not even going to bother delving into the whole "Oh, your eyes can't see the ppi difference!" argument - 1080p would look better to the unassuming consumer. Whether they can see the difference or not, it's another "bigger is better" figure for them, especially since the competition has been rocking 1080p since the beginning of the year. But I think BlackBerry just decided to hold off on a 1080p device so they can fulfill their promises, and not risk pissing off valuable people right now.

    If the specs are wrong and they have indeed gone 1080p, then they've gone for the flip-side - risk ticking off valuable people in order to look good in front of the general consumer. But I won't be at all surprised if the device ends up 720p.
    +100. Very good points you bring up.

    As for me, all I can say is out of all the specs I wish/hope they do/have upped, the 1080p is the most gimmicky for a mobile device.

    If BlackBerry kept their promise to devs and left the screen at 720p but made it a super phone in all other regards, I think they'd still have a shot. My concern is I don't think they are doing so.

    ~STV on Z10STL100-3/10.1.0.2025 TMO US
    07-15-13 11:10 PM
  8. thecurryman's Avatar
    Here is the devblog article announcing the standard resolutions for BB10 devices:
    Standardizing on Screen Resolutions for BlackBerry 10 devices BlackBerry Developer Blog
    The most important part I got out of that was how easy it was to adjust apps to fit sizes which would really take the fragmentation argument away

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-13 11:27 PM
  9. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    I posted this in the comments section on one of the blog articles...



    Thoughts?
    Agree. Although, like others have said, I think if they actually did decide to up the rez they would have changed the developer docs a while ago. So I doubt it's going to happen.
    07-15-13 11:32 PM
  10. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    The video of the "A10" that has leaked is clearly not a 1280 x 720 (or 768) display. There's room for a fifth row of icons. Maybe even five and a half rows. That is NOT the same as the Z10 - it's more than 1280 lines.
    They can make the icons the same physical size even though the pixel size is different. I wouldn't take the 5 rows as proof for 1080p.

    Although it would be great, given BB's track record and what we've heard so far it seems highly unlikely.
    Novaone likes this.
    07-15-13 11:34 PM
  11. LazyEvul's Avatar
    The most important part I got out of that was how easy it was to adjust apps to fit sizes which would really take the fragmentation argument away

    Posted via CB10
    It's not about fragmentation per se, it's about making developer's lives easier. However, by doing so you avoid fragmentation, since developers won't have to take the time to rework their apps for every single device, and you can have a more consistent BlackBerry World experience across all BB10 devices. Heck, even the Q10 suffered from this, with many apps taking a while to hit the device because they were originally designed for the Z10.
    07-15-13 11:36 PM
  12. bigjman's Avatar
    Posted via CB10
    07-15-13 11:49 PM
  13. zeeten's Avatar
    I think it's time for BlackBerry to stop making promises. Technology advances too fast and they end up having to choose between dated hardware or breaking promises.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-13 11:53 PM
  14. Skeevecr's Avatar
    They can make the icons the same physical size even though the pixel size is different. I wouldn't take the 5 rows as proof for 1080p.
    They adjusted the size of the icons for the q10, so it seems more than feasible that they did the same in order to fit in that extra row.
    07-16-13 08:25 AM
  15. jr4941's Avatar
    They adjusted the size of the icons for the q10, so it seems more than feasible that they did the same in order to fit in that extra row.
    If that's true, then why wouldn't OS10.2 on a Z10 have the 5th row?
    07-16-13 01:11 PM
  16. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    If that's true, then why wouldn't OS10.2 on a Z10 have the 5th row?
    Because it knows what device it's running on.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9320 using Tapatalk
    07-16-13 02:36 PM
  17. szlevi's Avatar
    It's not about fragmentation per se, it's about making developer's lives easier. However, by doing so you avoid fragmentation, since developers won't have to take the time to rework their apps for every single device, and you can have a more consistent BlackBerry World experience across all BB10 devices. Heck, even the Q10 suffered from this, with many apps taking a while to hit the device because they were originally designed for the Z10.
    But it wouldn't make sense anyway - eventually you HAVE to do it (1080p) and it's better doing it now, before apps numbers reach a million, obviously.
    07-16-13 04:46 PM
  18. LazyEvul's Avatar
    But it wouldn't make sense anyway - eventually you HAVE to do it (1080p) and it's better doing it now, before apps numbers reach a million, obviously.
    Eventually yes, but as I said in my first post, BlackBerry 10 is less than a year old, as is that promise. Now would be a very bad time to turn around on the promise.
    07-16-13 05:12 PM
  19. jonty12's Avatar
    They adjusted the size of the icons for the q10, so it seems more than feasible that they did the same in order to fit in that extra row.
    I don't think they did. The icons are 114 X 114 on both the Z10 and Q10. To save space on the Q, they went with three rows instead of four, decreased the space between rows, and combined the icon grid "page number" with the phone/camera icons (which have their own row, along with the universal search icon, on the Z10).

    BB's style guidelines for BB10 dictate 114 x 114 icons regardless of model. https://developer.blackberry.com/des...ion_icons.html
    07-16-13 05:41 PM
  20. JR A's Avatar
    Eventually yes, but as I said in my first post, BlackBerry 10 is less than a year old, as is that promise. Now would be a very bad time to turn around on the promise.
    That "promise" held weight regarding LOWER resolution devices fragmenting apps. No one wants to create and support apps at resolutions of 720p screens and 480x800 screens and 540 screens, etc...

    However, when it comes to having FULL HD, and a developer being able to advertise their app as FULL HD 1080p, it would be a good thing for BBRY to turn around on their promise.

    Do you think devs making apps for Android flipped out and got pissed when Samsung released the S4 at 1080p? But you say, "Well that's Android, people will buy the S4 regardless". Yeah, they will, because it's a badass phone with things like FULL HD displays and people want it.

    The trouble is, devs aren't making the apps we want for BB10 because not many people want BB10 phones! So make a damn BB10 phone with features people want. The ante just got raised and now 1080p is becoming a standard for a flagship phone. When consumers are at carrier stores and have the option of paying $200 for a phone on a 2yr contract and are given the option of an S4, HTC One, or an A10, what major selling points does the A10 have?

    Customer: So, the A10 doesn't need a home button and I just swipe to get to things. Cool I guess...
    Rep: Yeah, pretty much. By the way the S4 and HTC One both have FULL HD 1080p screens and have the best looking displays on a phone so when you look at your pictures and videos or watch movies on Netflix or YouTube, you get the best quality viewing experience.
    Customer: Does the BlackBerry have that kind of screen?
    Rep: No
    Customer: Well is there anything the BlackBerry can do that the S4 or HTC One can't?
    Rep: The BlackBerry navigates via gestures if that's important to you.
    Customer: Oh... so how much do they cost?
    Rep: All three are the same at $199...

    What do you think customers are going to pick?
    And why would a dev want to support a phone most people aren't going to buy?


    Yeah, sticking to BBRY's promise of 720p standardization is REALLY going to help developers...
    07-16-13 05:53 PM
  21. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    I don't think they did. The icons are 114 X 114 on both the Z10 and Q10. To save space on the Q, they went with three rows instead of four, decreased the space between rows, and combined the icon grid "page number" with the phone/camera icons (which have their own row, along with the universal search icon, on the Z10).

    BB's style guidelines for BB10 dictate 114 x 114 icons regardless of model. https://developer.blackberry.com/des...ion_icons.html
    Interesting. I never thought of that in terms of the A10, but if A10 has the same resolution but 5 rows of icons are they just going to shrink the icons? Or would there be enough room to fit another row and keep them at 114x114?
    07-16-13 06:03 PM
  22. LazyEvul's Avatar
    That "promise" held weight regarding LOWER resolution devices fragmenting apps. No one wants to create and support apps at resolutions of 720p screens and 480x800 screens and 540 screens, etc...

    However, when it comes to having FULL HD, and a developer being able to advertise their app as FULL HD 1080p, it would be a good thing for BBRY to turn around on their promise.

    Do you think devs making apps for Android flipped out and got pissed when Samsung released the S4 at 1080p? But you say, "Well that's Android, people will buy the S4 regardless". Yeah, they will, because it's a badass phone with things like FULL HD displays and people want it.

    The trouble is, devs aren't making the apps we want for BB10 because not many people want BB10 phones! So make a damn BB10 phone with features people want. The ante just got raised and now 1080p is becoming a standard for a flagship phone. When consumers are at carrier stores and have the option of paying $200 for a phone on a 2yr contract and are given the option of an S4, HTC One, or an A10, what major selling points does the A10 have?

    Customer: So, the A10 doesn't need a home button and I just swipe to get to things. Cool I guess...
    Rep: Yeah, pretty much. By the way the S4 and HTC One both have FULL HD 1080p screens and have the best looking displays on a 5" phone so when you look at your pictures and videos or watch movies on Netflix or YouTube, you get the best quality viewing experience.
    Customer: Does the BlackBerry have that kind of screen?
    Rep: No
    Customer: Well is there anything the BlackBerry can do that the S4 or HTC One can't?
    Rep: The BlackBerry navigates via gestures if that's important to you.
    Customer: Oh... so how much do they cost?
    Rep: All three are the same at $199...

    What do you think customers are going to pick?
    And why would a dev want to support a phone most people aren't going to buy?


    Yeah, sticking to BBRY's promise of 720p standardization is REALLY going to help developers...
    You make some good points, and I understand you entirely - heck I'd rather they jump on the 1080p bandwagon personally. However:

    1) You're still going to see fragmentation. Quite a few developers take their sweet time adjusting apps to new resolutions, as seen with the Q10, especially since BlackBerry 10 isn't a priority for most of them.
    2) The small-time developers, who are a crucial part to BlackBerry World, are going to be the ones that will be really ticked off. The big-time guys couldn't care less, though they tend to be very slow to react to such changes. But a small-time developer has limited time and resources, they don't want to have to rework their app yet another time.

    Developers for Android didn't flip out because they had complete confidence that the S4 would sell, because the S3 was a hit. BlackBerry 10 has to bear the burden of BlackBerry's past track record, which doesn't instill much confidence. Would 1080p help the device sell? I'm certain it would. Would it be enough to make developers confident in its sales? I seriously doubt it.
    JR A likes this.
    07-16-13 06:06 PM
  23. dshusha's Avatar
    As they say .. the proof is in the pudding ... lets wait and see what BB brings out .. if its a dud .. at least with a 5 inch display they can use the new A10 as a tombstone for the company ...
    07-16-13 06:27 PM
  24. jonty12's Avatar
    Interesting. I never thought of that in terms of the A10, but if A10 has the same resolution but 5 rows of icons are they just going to shrink the icons? Or would there be enough room to fit another row and keep them at 114x114?
    No,thats the point. They won't shrink the icons. They're the same size, but in the video there's room for at least one more row, meaning it's more than 1280 vertical.

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 08:25 PM
  25. mathking606's Avatar
    There is really a problem with BB choosing either display. If they do not choose to have a 1080 p full hd screen they are going to be massacred by the tech blogs and honestly with the software still needing to be refined there would be no other incentive for users to buy the phone or even upgrade to it over the Z10 which would actually have a better display and similar other specs as well as running the same software. Although if they go with the 1080 display then they have more chance of the phone being positively accepted by tech bloggers and the general public but they have the chance of pissing off the developers that have stood by them through it all. Either choice that BB makes is a gamble and really I am just praying that they make the right choice.
    07-16-13 09:00 PM
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