11-07-13 09:38 PM
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  1. M--Canuck's Avatar
    With statements like this, probably not.
    I can tell the difference in PPI between a Z30 and an LG G2.
    I notice the pixels.

    Talking about bias and obviously having a big one yourself is pretty funny, because the Z30 objectively has a worse display compared to every other flagship avalaible right now.
    Being unable to admit that, is what I would call ignorant.

    And you also have a clear preference for Amoled displays, which kind of nullifies your statement that other people are biased, yet again.

    Posted via CB10
    OK not a problem. Then stop arguing and move on. I don't mean to be arrogant or rude so excuse me if I came across as such.

    Cheers,


    Posted via CB10
    11-06-13 10:23 AM
  2. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    OK not a problem. Then stop arguing and move on. I don't mean to be arrogant or rude so excuse me if I came across as such.

    Cheers,

    Posted via CB10
    I really wanted to, but then someone told me that I don't see things that I do see.

    Appreciate your phone and be happy with it, but don't say things that are objectively wrong.

    Posted via CB10
    11-06-13 10:30 AM
  3. playbookster's Avatar
    Marsupilamix is a man (or woman) obsessed with the numbers

    Posted from my Z30
    11-06-13 10:33 AM
  4. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Marsupilamix is a man (or woman) obsessed with the numbers

    Posted from my Z30
    I work in the field of market research.
    If I wouldn't be obsessed with numbers, I should have never studied international management at a University.

    To argue if a 720p screen for a phone is better than 1080p one, is absurd nonetheless, even if I wouldn't like to play with numbers.

    Posted via CB10
    11-06-13 11:09 AM
  5. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I work in the field of market research.
    Snake oil salesman. A necessary evil. Look how they pulled the wool over the iSheep eyes. They tell you what think you need, not what you actually need.
    11-06-13 11:12 AM
  6. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Snake oil salesman. A necessary evil. Look how they pulled the wool over the iSheep eyes. They tell you what think you need, not what you actually need.
    Yawn.

    You still don't know the difference between market research and marketing?
    Embarrassing...

    Peek and flow, an experience race, it's a sprint not a marathon, tools not toys, keep moving and all the other marketing fluff BlackBerry used, is exactly part of what you just said.
    Don't be jealous because Apple knows manipulation better than BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    11-06-13 11:17 AM
  7. pgg101's Avatar
    Has anyone determined if the dim display is inherent in the panel itself or if it can be made brighter in the future via an OS update?

    Posted via CB10
    According to an email from Michael Clewley, a 10.2.1 update will have a feature to address the white balance.

    Posted via CB10
    11-06-13 12:10 PM
  8. dejanh's Avatar
    Yawn.

    You still don't know the difference between market research and marketing?
    Embarrassing...

    Peek and flow, an experience race, it's a sprint not a marathon, tools not toys, keep moving and all the other marketing fluff BlackBerry used, is exactly part of what you just said.
    Don't be jealous because Apple knows manipulation better than BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    Don't worry about these guys here...they don't know much about anything it seems. The blind faith and the level of astounding ignorance demonstrated in this thread at least proves partly why BlackBerry is in the boat that it is in today. Instead of providing the company with legitimate feedback in areas to improve it seems fanboys are more interested in deluding themselves into claims of grandeur. For all intents and purposes the Z30 is a wash. It will likely sell in numbers even smaller than the Z10. I'm just hoping that BlackBerry itself realizes that they need to produce physically better devices if they want to claim the price point and segment they are targeting. The Z10 is a good device, albeit overpriced and with weak battery. The Z30 is at best "meh". The display just kills it.

    Again, I'm not knocking BlackBerry 10. I use it and love it. I have both a Z10 and a Q10, and *wanted* to buy a Z30. Z30 suffers from the same display issues as the Q10, except more so because of the substantially lower PPI. If you open up the same website on a Z10 and a Z30, at the default zoom level, the text on the Z10 is crisp and readable and on the Z30 it is full of jagged edges, sometimes not even legible as it is simply "broken up".

    Weak is weak, but keep up the spin.

    Posted via CB10
    11-06-13 12:17 PM
  9. lawguyman's Avatar
    WTF? This makes no sense. This is about as good of an attempt at a response as saying "I'm rubber, you're glue, everything you say bounces off me and sticks to you".

    Just admit it. The display is terrible. Like i said before, if you really can't tell it's bad probably your vision is not very good. Either that or you are in denial. I won't blame you though, spending $600-$700 on a device worth at best $400. After all that's what devices of similar build quality sell for, no?

    Posted via CB10
    I question your judgment.

    I have a Z30 and I just got a Nexus 5 yesterday. I don't have a dog in this fight but I'm going to keep using the z30 and will sell the Nexus 5.

    To be completely honest and looking at both screens for longs periods of time trying to spot differences, I simply can't see any resolution differences. Small text on both devices looks really sharp. Small text is where insufficient resolution would manifest itself and it simply does not.

    There are other differences that I can spot but they don't make me gravitate toward one device or the other. I used to be very active on AVS and spent countless hours with my Eye One Pro calibrating my projector so I know a thing or two about image quality.

    The Nexus 5 is really nice. Google Now integration is amazing. The hardware is great. It is small and thin but has a huge screen. Android no longer feels like an OS cobbled together from different parts. The thing is for me that I like the Hub. I love the better than all day battery life on the Z30 and I love the build quality.

    If someone wants to buy a Nexus 5 32 GB at cost, shoot me a PM.

    Posted via CB10
    11-07-13 07:20 AM
  10. lawguyman's Avatar
    Here is a pic of the two taken with my awesome Windows Tablet.Questions about the Z30 display-win_20131107_082628.jpg
    11-07-13 07:30 AM
  11. lawguyman's Avatar
    Questions about the Z30 display-win_20131107_083128.jpg

    I don't know why it came out upside down.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    11-07-13 07:33 AM
  12. Anonymous2039's Avatar
    Here is a pic of the two taken with my awesome Windows Tablet.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WIN_20131107_082628.JPG 
Views:	475 
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    It's clear which one looks better from the photo, but in real life it probably isn't quite the same.

    Q10 and Canadian all the way! Q10SQN100-3/10.2.0.1791
    11-07-13 07:35 AM
  13. lawguyman's Avatar
    You are seeing the differences in brightness.

    Eyes are initially drawn to a brighter display. This is why if you go TV shopping most TVs are cranked up as bright as they can be. This has very little to do with image quality. Brightness simply has to be appropriate for a given viewing environment. If a display is too bright, it will give you a headache. If it is too dim, it will impair your ability to see and enjoy content.



    Posted via CB10
    11-07-13 07:40 AM
  14. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    The Z30 is at best "meh". The display just kills it.

    Again, I'm not knocking BlackBerry 10. I use it and love it. I have both a Z10 and a Q10, and *wanted* to buy a Z30. Z30 suffers from the same display issues as the Q10, except more so because of the substantially lower PPI. If you open up the same website on a Z10 and a Z30, at the default zoom level, the text on the Z10 is crisp and readable and on the Z30 it is full of jagged edges, sometimes not even legible as it is simply "broken up".

    Weak is weak, but keep up the spin.
    Keep spreading the BS. If you think that the display on the Z30 kills it, then you are just blowing smoke. I have shown the Z30 display to my friends, family and co-workers. They all think it looks very sharp and clear. I have yet to meet a single person who doesn't like the Z30 screen, except for some of the posters on this forum who have questionable motives.
    vrud likes this.
    11-07-13 07:46 AM
  15. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    If you open up the same website on a Z10 and a Z30, at the default zoom level, the text on the Z10 is crisp and readable and on the Z30 it is full of jagged edges, sometimes not even legible as it is simply "broken up".
    Why don't you post screen shots? Put up or..
    vrud likes this.
    11-07-13 07:48 AM
  16. lawguyman's Avatar
    With statements like this, probably not.
    I can tell the difference in PPI between a Z30 and an LG G2.
    I notice the pixels.

    Talking about bias and obviously having a big one yourself is pretty funny, because the Z30 objectively has a worse display compared to every other flagship avalaible right now.
    Being unable to admit that, is what I would call ignorant.

    And you also have a clear preference for Amoled displays, which kind of nullifies your statement that other people are biased, yet again.

    Posted via CB10
    Please identify an instance in which you "noticed pixels" on a Z30.

    Posted via CB10
    11-07-13 07:48 AM
  17. Anonymous2039's Avatar
    Please identify an instance in which you "noticed pixels" on a Z30.

    Posted via CB10
    You can "notice" pixels on any screen. All you have to do is look at it when it's on. See al those colours and lights? Those are pixels. If a person really wants to see individual pixels, they will, even if they are blowing things out of proportion a bit.

    Q10 and Canadian all the way! Q10SQN100-3/10.2.0.1791
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    11-07-13 07:53 AM
  18. lawguyman's Avatar
    You can "notice" pixels on any screen. All you have to do is look at it when it's on. See al those colours and lights? Those are pixels. If a person really wants to see individual pixels, they will, even if they are blowing things out of proportion a bit.

    Q10 and Canadian all the way! Q10SQN100-3/10.2.0.1791
    I think what he is claiming is that the lower resolution on the z30 is evident because what should be rounded or smooth is instead blocky.

    This is a false claim and I would like him to provide evidence to support it so that others can reproduce it (or not).

    Posted via CB10
    11-07-13 07:59 AM
  19. Anonymous2039's Avatar
    I think what he is claiming is that the lower resolution on the z30 is evident because what should be rounded or smooth is instead blocky.

    This is a false claim and I would like him to provide evidence to support it so that others can reproduce it (or not).

    Posted via CB10
    Honestly, unless you push your nose right up to the screen (including on the so-called "Retina" screens), you're not going to see individual pixels on any modern screen (id est, it's not black and white).

    Q10 and Canadian all the way! Q10SQN100-3/10.2.0.1791
    11-07-13 08:29 AM
  20. lawguyman's Avatar
    Honestly, unless you push your nose right up to the screen (including on the so-called "Retina" screens), you're not going to see individual pixels on any modern screen (id est, it's not black and white).

    Q10 and Canadian all the way! Q10SQN100-3/10.2.0.1791
    That's pretty much true once you cross a certain screen size/resolution threshold when considering what a typical viewing distance is.

    My 8" Dell Venue 8 Pro has basically the same resolution as the Z30 but it is 8", not 5". It still looks great.

    Resolution is only one component of image quality and when we are talking about the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 5" screen, it is a silly debate.


    Posted via CB10
    11-07-13 09:00 AM
  21. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    That's pretty much true once you cross a certain screen size/resolution threshold when considering what a typical viewing distance is.

    My 8" Dell Venue 8 Pro has basically the same resolution as the Z30 but it is 8", not 5". It still looks great.

    Resolution is only one component of image quality and when we are talking about the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 5" screen, it is a silly debate.

    Posted via CB10
    Silly is a strange description because what I find silly is people arguing against better specs, for less money.

    The Z30 not having a 1080p display wouldn't be a problem if the phone wouldn't be positioned as a flagship for 600-700$.
    For 350-400$ the specs of Z30 (the rest, apart from the display) would be totally acceptable, for its current price though, the hardware itself is subpar.

    We then have the fact of technology moving forward.
    It means that most of the technological progress considering smartphone displays will be focused on 1080p ones.
    It also means that such screens will completely annihilate 720p ones in the midrange because 720p will vanish in that segment.

    It's silly to argue against 1080p screens at this point in time and it's very telling that this arguing comes from users or supporters of the only brand selling a 5 inch flagship, without one.

    Posted via CB10
    11-07-13 09:21 AM
  22. lawguyman's Avatar
    Silly is a strange description because what I find silly is people arguing against better specs, for less money.

    The Z30 not having a 1080p display wouldn't be a problem if the phone wouldn't be positioned as a flagship for 600-700$.
    For 350-400$ the specs of Z30 (the rest, apart from the display) would be totally acceptable, for its current price though, the hardware itself is subpar.

    We then have the fact of technology moving forward.
    It means that most of the technological progress considering smartphone displays will be focused on 1080p ones.
    It also means that such screens will completely annihilate 720p ones in the midrange because 720p will vanish in that segment.

    It's silly to argue against 1080p screens at this point in time and it's very telling that this arguing comes from users or supporters of the only brand selling a 5 inch flagship, without one.

    Posted via CB10
    So you're not going to provide any example of where you "noticed pixels?" I didn't think so.

    1080p on a 5" screen is not a spec that makes a difference to anyone but marketers and those who believe them.

    It was obviously a mistake on BlackBerry's part not to include a 1080p screen because it gives people who like numbers for numbers sake something to complain about.

    I am all for better specs but I also understand that engineering is about compromises. I look at the Nexus 5 and I can see its compromises too. That is true with every device that is built to meet a price point.

    Posted via CB10
    11-07-13 09:42 AM
  23. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    So you're not going to provide any example of where you "noticed pixels?" I didn't think so.

    1080p on a 5" screen is not a spec that makes a difference to anyone but marketers and those who believe them.

    It was obviously a mistake on BlackBerry's part not to include a 1080p screen because it gives people who like numbers for numbers sake something to complain about.

    I am all for better specs but I also understand that engineering is about compromises. I look at the Nexus 5 and I can see its compromises too. That is true with every device that is built to meet a price point.

    Posted via CB10

    So let's try it again:

    http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_S4_ShootOut_1.htm

    http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note3_ShootOut_1.htm

    http://www.displaymate.com/Smartphone_ShootOut_3.htm

    Quote from the last article:
    "From the above discussion, there are lots of good and technically sound reasons for moving up to Full HD in a 5 inch Smartphone display. People with reasonably good vision will be able to see and appreciate the higher resolution, additional sharpness and image detail that it provides."

    Open the links, read the info, and then either be enlighted, or stay ignorant.
    One component has also been mentioned a number of times:
    Why should I pay 700$ for a phone with a Dual-core CPU, last-gen GPU, bad camera, and a 720p display, when I can get the newest hardware for the same price or less?
    ^
    This is the case for the Z30 and therefore it's a very relevant question.
    It's not that 720p is bad, it's bad for the price the Z30 sells for.
    Current 5-inch flagships that have a price of 600-700$, have a 1080p display.
    Compared to the competition, 720p clearly is inferior.
    This is also proven by the links I provided.

    And to have a little outlook:
    BlackBerry has plans, with the O-series, to introduce a phone with a 1080p display.
    Will you guys dismiss it, and not buy it because it will use, what flagships use since the beginning of this year?

    The Nexus costs 300$ less, but offers twice the hardware...
    You can talk about its compromises all you want, but there is NO reason that the Z30 doesn't use a 1080p screen when it costs between 600-700$.
    It's silly and ridiculous to argue against that.

    And why should I tell you where I noticed pixels? You'll dismiss it anyway because it doesn't affirm your views.

    Posted via CB10
    11-07-13 09:57 AM
  24. theblob's Avatar
    From questions about the Z30 display to an 8 page long argument about opinions that frankly do not matter.
    If you like the Z30 screen, you like it. If you see jagged edges and don't like it, you don't like it. Personal preference, great device, could have used a better screen, but still doesn't affect my experience.
    Last edited by theblob; 11-07-13 at 10:19 AM.
    MarsupilamiX and Fr3lncr like this.
    11-07-13 10:05 AM
  25. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    From questions about the Z30 display to an 8 page long argument about opinions that frankly do not matter.
    If you like the Z30 screen, you like it. If you see jagged edges and don't like it, you don't like it. Personal preference aside, great device, could have used a better screen, but still doesn't affect my experience.
    And that's totally acceptable!
    There is nothing wrong with that, because it's just like you said:
    It doesn't affect YOUR experience.
    But certain users telling me what I can see didn't get that.
    The screen would affect my experience negatively.

    I do hope that you enjoy your device and you'll continue to be happy with it!

    Posted via CB10
    theblob likes this.
    11-07-13 10:17 AM
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