08-02-13 05:16 PM
97 ... 234
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  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Better be removable.
    I seen several post advising against removal of the battery, even when the device if off. Fixed batteries might be the way of the future (another thing Apple was right about).

    The BlackBerry Charging Bundle has been a very good accessory for me, and allows me to keep my Z10 working without changing a battery and then waiting for it to reboot and RELOAD everything.
    07-15-13 04:58 PM
  2. axllebeer's Avatar
    That frame better be aluminum or it's just a z10 on roids
    Agreed. But I would prefer stainless steel.
    07-16-13 12:03 PM
  3. mastermike87's Avatar
    Aluminum is a soft metal. It was never a good option for a phone. Apple sucessfully convinced the majority of people into thinking that aluminum makes for a superior build. HTC put the nail in the coffin. As a mechanical engineer this bugs the %*#@ out of me. If you want a durable phone, you dont want aluminum. If you don't want a phone that scratches, you don't want aluminum. If you don't want a phone that dents, you don't want aluminum. Blackberry knows what they're doing here. Look at the Q10 and take notes. It is one of the best built phones out there. I just wonder how long until people catch on. Apple has a fantastic manufacturing process, but I've always wondered what their engineers were smoking when they chose a 6000 series aluminum to use on their phone. They could have at least kept a stainless steel band... Idiots.
    Very interesting.

    in lacrosse, the aluminium 6000 alloys are known to be garbage (for the handles). Has anyone thought of using a frame case made out of composite titanium ? I know for my lax shafts, they're lighter, stronger, and don't dent (as much as the alloy 6000). And shafts are 40" and wholesale for like 30 bucks. Would be interesting to see a manufacturer come up with space/astronaut marketing and use some titanium for th casing.

    Posted via CB10
    axllebeer and LWKING like this.
    07-16-13 12:12 PM
  4. axllebeer's Avatar
    Slightly off topic but still in support of your point, my wife is in a wheelchair. About every 4 years because it's a folding chair the crossbars under the seat break. They are made of aluminum. 4 years ago we spent the extra $ to get her a chair made of titanium. Last week the cross bars broke.

    Guess what part of the titanium chair is STILL made of aluminum

    Very interesting.

    in lacrosse, the aluminium 6000 alloys are known to be garbage (for the handles). Has anyone thought of using a frame case made out of composite titanium ? I know for my lax shafts, they're lighter, stronger, and don't dent (as much as the alloy 6000). And shafts are 40" and wholesale for like 30 bucks. Would be interesting to see a manufacturer come up with space/astronaut marketing and use some titanium for th casing.

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 12:32 PM
  5. jasonvan9's Avatar
    Very interesting.

    in lacrosse, the aluminium 6000 alloys are known to be garbage (for the handles). Has anyone thought of using a frame case made out of composite titanium ? I know for my lax shafts, they're lighter, stronger, and don't dent (as much as the alloy 6000). And shafts are 40" and wholesale for like 30 bucks. Would be interesting to see a manufacturer come up with space/astronaut marketing and use some titanium for th casing.

    Posted via CB10
    6000 series aluminum is a very soft (and CHEAP!!) alloy of aluminum, ^^^ your wheelchair crossbars and lacrosse handles break because of the fatigue stress (the minute bending back and forth every time you sit and stand up, or whip the handle back and forth throwing the ball) which 6000 series aluminum is the worst rating for this.

    Titanium would be a terrific substitute, it is very strong and very light, the only problem is, like stainless steel... it is very difficult to form in a press (unless the material is very thin like on a lacrosse handle, which can be made in a hydroform press pretty easily) so you HAVE to machine it from a solid piece or a casting... that is why many places use 6000 series aluminum, it is very cheap and VERY easy to form and machine.

    a higher grade aluminum would do fine, but you would still be prone to minute scratches instead of big ones and the cost goes WAY up because 6000 series is readily available, usually other alloys are made to order ($$$$$$)

    I think BB has it right, use a tough composite plastic for most surfaces and use stainless steel banding and buttons on wear prone surfaces. This is the best ratio of cost and performance you can get. Mind you, carbon fiber is getting MUCH cheaper now a days... I think that would be the ultimate bragging rights for a phone owner <3

    ================================================== ==================

    (funny enough about the wheelchair, most products are designed to fail at certain life cycles... cars, wheelchairs, etc... if you told me your wifes approx. weight, and whether she sat gently in her chair or sort of "fell" into it each time, i could than give you an approx. life span of your chair... and this is how the engineers develop products as well, they wouldn't last long as a business if everyone who bought their products never had to buy one again... would they )

    The saying "they dont make em' like they used to" is 10000% correct, they used to over design stuff because the material science and manufacturing processes were not as tightly controlled... but now with all the technology like i said, they can predict probably within 250 uses when your wheelchair will break

    a little light reading about fatigue and bending stresses on materials if anyone is interested:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_(material)
    Last edited by jasonvan9; 07-16-13 at 02:15 PM.
    axllebeer and LWKING like this.
    07-16-13 01:36 PM
  6. mastermike87's Avatar
    6000 series aluminum is a very soft (and CHEAP!!) alloy of aluminum, ^^^ your wheelchair crossbars and lacrosse handles break because of the fatigue stress (the minute bending back and forth every time you sit and stand up, or whip the handle back and forth throwing the ball) which 6000 series aluminum is the worst rating for this.

    Titanium would be a terrific substitute, it is very strong and very light, the only problem is, like stainless steel... it is very difficult to form in a press so you HAVE to machine it from a solid piece or a casting... that is why many places use 6000 series aluminum, it is very cheap and VERY easy to form and machine.

    a higher grade aluminum would do fine, but you would still be prone to minute scratches instead of big ones and the cost goes WAY up because 6000 series is readily available, usually other alloys are made to order ($$$$$$)

    I think BB has it right, use a tough composite plastic for most surfaces and use stainless steel banding and buttons on wear prone surfaces. This is the best ration of cost and performance you can get.
    Honestly, lax manufacturers outsource to Chinese factories to produce titanium shafts. Granted moulds are similar, the casing for a phone would be far less complex than a long shaft. We're talking 5" versus 32".

    Even if it was the sides that were titanium, u think it would be insane and be a marketing dream.

    Imagine a phone floating in space. An astronaut using an A10.


    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 01:41 PM
  7. LWKING's Avatar
    6000 series aluminum is a very soft (and CHEAP!!) alloy of aluminum, ^^^ your wheelchair crossbars and lacrosse handles break because of the fatigue stress (the minute bending back and forth every time you sit and stand up, or whip the handle back and forth throwing the ball) which 6000 series aluminum is the worst rating for this.

    Titanium would be a terrific substitute, it is very strong and very light, the only problem is, like stainless steel... it is very difficult to form in a press (unless the material is very thin like on a lacrosse handle, which can be made in a hydroform press pretty easily) so you HAVE to machine it from a solid piece or a casting... that is why many places use 6000 series aluminum, it is very cheap and VERY easy to form and machine.

    a higher grade aluminum would do fine, but you would still be prone to minute scratches instead of big ones and the cost goes WAY up because 6000 series is readily available, usually other alloys are made to order ($$$$$$)

    I think BB has it right, use a tough composite plastic for most surfaces and use stainless steel banding and buttons on wear prone surfaces. This is the best ration of cost and performance you can get.
    Exactly. I couldn't agree with you more.
    jasonvan9 likes this.
    07-16-13 01:42 PM
  8. jasonvan9's Avatar
    Honestly, lax manufacturers outsource to Chinese factories to produce titanium shafts. Granted moulds are similar, the casing for a phone would be far less complex than a long shaft. We're talking 5" versus 32".

    Posted via CB10
    a phone case is more complex to manufacture with all its intricate details, port holes, tight tolerances, etc than a long blank shaft of any length, and if you want to get fancy maybe a hole punched in one end to attach a handle... a hydroform press can make long complex shapes very quickly and easily (aluminum frame rails of the corvette for instance), but when you start talking about putting holes in exact locations into said piece, now the process becomes exponentially more complicated.
    07-16-13 01:53 PM
  9. LWKING's Avatar
    a phone case is more complex to manufacture with all its intricate details, port holes, tight tolerances, etc than a long blank shaft of any length, and if you want to get fancy maybe a hole punched in one end to attach a handle... a hydroform press can make long complex shapes very quickly and easily (aluminum frame rails of the corvette for instance), but when you start talking about putting holes in exact locations into said piece, now the process becomes exponentially more complicated.
    You have no idea how refreshing it is to read this

    You are 100% correct. These tiny little differences make HUGE differences in time and cost when you start producing on a large scale. Let's say you save 2 seconds from your assembly time by switching out a screw with a snap-fit on a particular part. Lets say you make 2,000,000 of those parts in a year. That one tiny screw suddenly isn't so tiny anymore. It's incredible how much money you can save a company by simplifying the manufacturing process and reducing the amount of redundant and unnecessary parts.
    Last edited by LWKING; 07-16-13 at 04:43 PM.
    07-16-13 04:22 PM
  10. mastermike87's Avatar
    a phone case is more complex to manufacture with all its intricate details, port holes, tight tolerances, etc than a long blank shaft of any length, and if you want to get fancy maybe a hole punched in one end to attach a handle... a hydroform press can make long complex shapes very quickly and easily (aluminum frame rails of the corvette for instance), but when you start talking about putting holes in exact locations into said piece, now the process becomes exponentially more complicated.
    Okay fair, but once the setup is done, dont costs reduce over time?

    I think it's an interesting concept and eventually manufacturers will go that route with customers complaining about wear and tear.

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 04:47 PM
  11. doggy10's Avatar
    Is the headphone jack back on the side again? I hope not

    Posted via CB10
    No headphone jack is on the top

    BlackBerry for life. Kick'n it with my Z10.
    07-16-13 05:10 PM
  12. jasonvan9's Avatar
    Okay fair, but once the setup is done, dont costs reduce over time?
    Posted via CB10
    its called "time of return on investment (ROI)" which is a calculated time period based on capital costs and cost reductions

    say you invest 10 million on tooling to build phones
    it costs you 7.5 million a year in materials, time, etc to build the phones
    you sell those phones for 15 million a year (50% profit a year)

    so in essence you are starting off in the negatives (initial investment) so you can make money later on down the road

    1st year (-17.5million) + 15million = (-2.5million)
    2nd year (-2.5million) + 15million = 12.5million
    so in ~ 1year, 2months you will be turning a profit

    obviously in the real world there are MANY other factors, (interest rate, supply and demand, bulk ordering, etc etc...) but even in this small example, can you see how you can manipulate the numbers so you can make a larger return on your investment
    (people get paid a LOT of money to make this happen)

    parts get cheaper, make your money back faster (instead of 7.5million a year, it only costs 6million for example)
    smaller initial investment (less tooling changes... think iphone4 >> iphone4S) means you can make profit sooner and make more of it vs. lifetime of product
    Last edited by jasonvan9; 07-17-13 at 01:33 PM.
    07-17-13 01:01 PM
  13. DariusG1996's Avatar
    Official Aristo renders-blackberry-official-series-specification-document-a10sfsld14pac-strictly-blackberry-.jpgOfficial Aristo renders-blackberry-official-device-range-2013-document-bbdrf2013pd-strictly-blackberry-17.jpgOfficial Aristo renders-real-blackberry-a10-created-darius-gardner.jpg
    axllebeer likes this.
    07-17-13 05:55 PM
  14. FrankIAm's Avatar
    Loled @Z5 and the A10actually being called the A10.
    Where'd you get that from?
    07-17-13 06:38 PM
  15. trwrt's Avatar
    Going by the A10 screenshot, Alicia Keys is seven feet tall. Whoever made that took the Z10 screen and just stretched it vertically, LOL.
    07-17-13 07:29 PM
  16. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    Going by the A10 screenshot, Alicia Keys is seven feet tall. Whoever made that took the Z10 screen and just stretched it vertically, LOL.
    Agreed! A bad photoshop job
    07-17-13 08:35 PM
  17. mithrazor's Avatar
    Going by the A10 screenshot, Alicia Keys is seven feet tall. Whoever made that took the Z10 screen and just stretched it vertically, LOL.
    Not to mention you can see where the photoshop starts on the top left bezel side of the phone lol
    07-17-13 08:39 PM
  18. mastermike87's Avatar
    its called "time of return on investment (ROI)" which is a calculated time period based on capital costs and cost reductions

    say you invest 10 million on tooling to build phones
    it costs you 7.5 million a year in materials, time, etc to build the phones
    you sell those phones for 15 million a year (50% profit a year)

    so in essence you are starting off in the negatives (initial investment) so you can make money later on down the road

    1st year (-17.5million) + 15million = (-2.5million)
    2nd year (-2.5million) + 15million = 12.5million
    so in ~ 1year, 2months you will be turning a profit

    obviously in the real world there are MANY other factors, (interest rate, supply and demand, bulk ordering, etc etc...) but even in this small example, can you see how you can manipulate the numbers so you can make a larger return on your investment
    (people get paid a LOT of money to make this happen)

    parts get cheaper, make your money back faster (instead of 7.5million a year, it only costs 6million for example)
    smaller initial investment (less tooling changes... think iphone4 >> iphone4S) means you can make profit sooner and make more of it vs. lifetime of product
    I am well aware of ROI. The point I was trying to make was intended to those who are saying it would be too complex to use titanium or an alloy above 8000.

    It would be in the best interest of manufacturers to apply the knowledge of other industries (e.g., sport equipment) in order to achieve first-mover status and demonstrate innovation In a highly competitive industry.

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-13 08:55 PM
  19. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    There is now a video of how to insert the SIM card. It confirms the lack of removable battery and looks exactly like the leaked pictures.
    08-02-13 02:12 PM
  20. mathking606's Avatar
    There is now a video of how to insert the SIM card. It confirms the lack of removable battery and looks exactly like the leaked pictures.
    Where is this video?
    08-02-13 02:39 PM
  21. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    Where is this video?
    Updated the OP
    mathking606 and tryfe like this.
    08-02-13 02:51 PM
  22. tryfe's Avatar
    2880mAh BATTERY POWAAHHHHHHH
    08-02-13 05:16 PM
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