10-19-13 11:03 AM
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  1. iN8ter's Avatar
    Care to explain then?

    Posted via CB10
    It is an emulation/runtime layer, not a full on android OS. Its like running Windows Apps with WINE on Linux, not like running Windows on OSX with Parallels.

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    10-01-13 02:04 PM
  2. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    Hey do any of you guys but the ones from UK that don't take a sim card.
    Do they work good in Canada.
    Are they just like unlocking your phone.


    Posted from my Q10 from CB10
    You'll need the correct model for your carrier. The UK ones only work in the UK and some European countries.
    anon721037 and Anilu7 like this.
    10-01-13 02:05 PM
  3. LWKING's Avatar
    What opinion did I put up? I was talking about android performance with other people. He just chimed in and I blew him off. Read the thread.

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    A few actually . The one that sticks out is that the "S3 runs Jellybean flawlessly." I've used the S3, but nevermind my opinion because I don't own one. There are plenty of users that will disagree with you. S3 lag seems to be a very common problem.

    It's OK to be wrong sometimes.

    Don't get me wrong, I agree with most of the things you've said. I don't actually think that you're not bright. I just don't agree that you can so quickly discredit a user with access to all of the devices in question without any background knowledge on them. It makes you look like a fool. My argument begins and ends there.

    Posted via CB10
    grover5, Anilu7 and gnirkatto like this.
    10-01-13 02:06 PM
  4. imcurved's Avatar
    BlackBerry please sell the Z30 direct and keep the price reasonable.

    Post via CB Z10
    10-01-13 02:06 PM
  5. iN8ter's Avatar
    A few actually . The one that sticks out is that the "S3 runs Jellybean flawlessly." I've used the S3, but nevermind my opinion because I don't own one. There are plenty of users that will disagree with you. S3 lag seems to be a very common problem.

    It's OK to be wrong sometimes.

    Posted via CB10
    It does. Care to explain how it doesn't? I didn't say the Z30 performance was bad, but the GS3 does not need me to cheerlead for it to validate that statement.

    Same goes to you and your source, BTW.

    Lag is always an issue with Android on crackberry ;-) The only thing lagging is their market share.

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    10-01-13 02:08 PM
  6. LWKING's Avatar
    It does. Care to explain how it doesn't? I didn't say the Z30 performance was bad, but the GS3 does not need me to cheerlead for it to validate that statement.

    Same goes to you and your source, BTW.

    Lag is always an issue with Android on crackberry ;-) The only thing lagging is their market share.

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    Check out my edit.

    Posted via CB10
    10-01-13 02:10 PM
  7. anon721037's Avatar
    You'll need the correct model for your carrier. The UK ones only work in the UK and some European countries.
    Thank you very much I appreciate the time you took to answer and the warnings.

    Posted from my Q10 from CB10
    10-01-13 02:10 PM
  8. iN8ter's Avatar
    Check out my edit.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes I seen it.

    My posts in this thread were almost all responses, not inciters.

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    10-01-13 02:11 PM
  9. colin carew's Avatar
    I love my Z10. But might just have to upgrade to the Z30. I was checking one out. This pasted weekend. At a demo.

    Posted via CB10
    10-01-13 02:15 PM
  10. anon(3993749)'s Avatar
    It is an emulation/runtime layer, not a full on android OS. Its like running Windows Apps with WINE on Linux, not like running Windows on OSX with Parallels.

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    If it's just an emulation (and not a full OS), how come I can access everything from the Android OS: settings, browser, camera, gallery, files, etc.? Also, emulation or not, that thing is always running in the background. Try opening an Android app right after you restart your phone. You'll notice a blue progress bar at the bottom of the screen indicating that the runtime is being loaded. That only happens once, which means it will continue running in the background until you restart your phone.

    Posted via CB10
    10-01-13 02:16 PM
  11. iN8ter's Avatar
    If it's just an emulation (and not a full OS), how come I can access everything from the Android OS: settings, browser, camera, gallery, files, etc.? Also, emulation or not, that thing is always running in the background. Try opening an Android app right after you restart your phone. You'll notice a blue progress bar at the bottom of the screen indicating that the runtime is being loaded. That only happens once, which means it will continue running in the background until you restart your phone.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't know. You can use API mapping. I don't have their source code, but it does not run a full OS. The apps load what they need and it's built for compatibility with specific Android API levels.

    A WINE emulated apo can do a lot on Linux as well ;-)

    The notion that this phone is loading two full OSes is false. It does not do that. Running Android that way would use an additional +/- 450MB ram being conservative, which is a ton and would even bog down a device with 2GB since they only have about 1.6GB for apps to access.

    BB10 only used the Dalvik part of Android. It cannot run apps that use the Android NDK, which would be possible it it were running a full android OS. Only parts of Android are emulated. It doesn't run the whole system in a VM, as you seem to think.

    Yes, runtime being LOADED. Not "Android OS running alongside BB10" like you seem to suggest. Additionally, there are a ton of APIs/Features of Android that the Emulation does not support. You should take a look. A full OS would have bought over a lot of the stuff that is no supported in the emulation: http://developer.blackberry.com/android/apisupport/

    It's basically WINE on BB10, but for Android APIs instead of Windows APIs.

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 10-01-13 at 02:36 PM.
    LWKING likes this.
    10-01-13 02:19 PM
  12. davidmcromano's Avatar
    Congrats! I want to get my hands on one.
    10-01-13 02:27 PM
  13. luisoman2000's Avatar
    You can't compare Apple and Android, Blackberry and Apple or Blackberry and Android when it comes to specs! Its like say the heart in an elephant is bigger than the heart in a cheater so the elephant must be faster! My Q10 felt faster in use that an S4 and was only marginally slower when running an Android app!
    While this statement is true, people will still do it. Problem is they are comparing things they shouldn't. Sure, win8 and bbos might not need the quads, but if they want to win over the android fanbase they need to be seen as equal. Using specs that by android's standards is outdated will only make them look bad. Take win8, they are gearing up for releasing their first quadcore device. Does it need it? probably not, but it will look good to potential buyers. Same with blackberry, instead of S4 pro they should have gone with snapdragon 600/800 just to even the odds. Apple has the luxury of using "less specs"(their dual core chipsets are quite powerful) due to its status as a luxury item(apparently having an iphone is a status symbol).
    10-01-13 02:28 PM
  14. LP_Rigg's Avatar
    I'm not saying this phone is a let down and is embarrassing to call this a flagship device. Everything is so last year.

    Posted via CB10
    LOL - I always enjoy reading the spec posts. Some people really will never understand the full relationship between specs and operating system efficiencies. BB upgraded the specs in the appropriate places and I'm sure as mentioned in the OP it is smooth.

    If it is even marginally smoother than my Z10 (1767) I could not be happier because it is the smoothest phone I have tried. (S4 and iPhone 5s in my house as well)
    10-01-13 02:31 PM
  15. ankush77's Avatar
    heard it is a good device indeed
    10-01-13 02:33 PM
  16. LWKING's Avatar
    If it's just an emulation (and not a full OS), how come I can access everything from the Android OS: settings, browser, camera, gallery, files, etc.? Also, emulation or not, that thing is always running in the background. Try opening an Android app right after you restart your phone. You'll notice a blue progress bar at the bottom of the screen indicating that the runtime is being loaded. That only happens once, which means it will continue running in the background until you restart your phone.

    Posted via CB10
    Your phone is not running a full Android OS

    Posted via CB10
    10-01-13 02:33 PM
  17. playbookster's Avatar
    Name calling is very cliché, eh?

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    Fanboy is derogatory? If your a fan of a company then youre a Fanboy. I'm a BlackBerry Fanboy which is why I'm on crackberry, why are you here?

    Posted via CB10
    Anilu7, gnirkatto, badiyee and 2 others like this.
    10-01-13 02:34 PM
  18. ankush77's Avatar
    it would have been first bb10 device with very good BB10 software which is much refined to start with
    10-01-13 02:34 PM
  19. anon(3993749)'s Avatar
    I don't know. You can use API mapping. I don't have their source code, but it does not run a full OS. The apps load what they need and it's built for compatibility with specific Android API levels.

    A WINE emulated apo can do a lot on Linux as well ;-)

    The notion that this phone is loading two full OSes is false. It does not do that. Running Android that way would use an additional +/- 450MB ram being conservative, which is a ton and would even bog down a device with 2GB since they only have about 1.6GB for apps to access.

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    If it's just API mapping, why does it take 1-2 minutes to open an Android app after a restart? And why is the Android runtime .bar file so big? And why is that .bar running in the background all the time?

    All I'm saying is that the Android Runtime (full OS or not) must use quite a lot of RAM (I'm thinking at least 250MB). So saying BB10 is ineficient is a bit unfair, don't you think?

    Posted via CB10
    10-01-13 02:37 PM
  20. luisoman2000's Avatar
    It sounds great! Fast, smooth, vivid. But - my Z10 is getting very close to being TOO BIG. Pretty soon they will have to put wheels on these beautiful new, faster, better phones. If I want to watch movies, I have a beautiful, brilliant TV. If I need a large screen for surfing the internet, I can wait 'til I get home or to the office.

    I really do appreciate the technology, and I know that bigger is better for many people, but I don't want a phone that is bigger than I am. I am not putting the Z30 down, or those who love it. It is just not what I need for business.
    Blackberry should have taken a page from the xperia ZL design. They are both 5" phones but the ZL is a bit smaller (140.7 x 72 x 9.4 mm on the Z30 vs 131.6 x 69.3 x 9.8 mm) The ZL is also quite big for such as small screen. I compared it with my Xperia Ion side by side and they are about the same height(the ion is just 3 mm bigger), but my ion has a 4.55 Screen vs the 4.2 screen on the Z10. Bottom line: you can have a big screen on a manageable phone, you just need to get the design right.
    10-01-13 02:38 PM
  21. iN8ter's Avatar
    Fanboy is derogatory? If your a fan of a company then youre a Fanboy. I'm a BlackBerry Fanboy which is why I'm on crackberry, why are you here?

    Posted via CB10
    When I go to housing projects, ***** is used in a non-derogatory way by females referring to each other informally.

    But you do not see me referring to you as such, do you?

    It's all about context and intent, and we all know what the intent was. Semantics is not that strong, buddy.
    10-01-13 02:40 PM
  22. Duffman19's Avatar
    Lol nice try heins

    Posted via CB10
    10-01-13 02:40 PM
  23. iN8ter's Avatar
    If it's just API mapping, why does it take 1-2 minutes to open an Android app after a restart? And why is the Android runtime .bar file so big? And why is that .bar running in the background all the time?

    All I'm saying is that the Android Runtime (full OS or not) must use quite a lot of RAM (I'm thinking at least 250MB). So saying BB10 is ineficient is a bit unfair, don't you think?

    Posted via CB10
    What part of emulation do you not understand? RIM basically ported over the Dalvik VM and a bunch of libraries to BB10. It does not load and run a full Android OS.

    And yes, it does use quite a lot of RAM. When you load an Android App, it loads a bunch of code that isn't native to the platform, generally speaking, from scratch. BB10 apps can make use of dynamic code already in RAM, which speeds up loading considerably (as well as speeding up execution). I doubt RIM is going to have their OS cache all the Android stuff, because it would make boot times ridiculously long and likely even cause performance issues on the device. If they had 3 GB RAM in the device, that may have been possible to do with negligible performance implications, though 2GB is not enough given you're actually working with much less after the GPU and other components reserve their share (more like 1.5-1.6GB of RAM for system use).

    Those are not discrete graphics cards, etc. in those phones. They're integrated. Just like the GPUs in a desktop APU from Intel or AMD.

    Like I said earlier, a ton of APIs and Features aren't supported by the emulation and you cannot repackage apps that use the Android NDK (Native Code). If they were running Android in a hypervisor, they would be able to do everything perhaps even without requiring apps be repackaged. This is all required because BBOS isn't Android and does not run Android. It simply emulates it and runs apps compatible with the API surface that they have implemented therein.

    In the future, when Specs are at the level where it's feasible, they may be able to just load it in a VM on the device and run things that way, the way Windows 7 did with Windows XP Mode. With only 2GB RAM and given where the hardware is *right now*, especially on a portable device that has to take into consideration things like battery life, heat, etc. it is not a good idea to go that route.
    10-01-13 02:44 PM
  24. KenV54's Avatar
    compared to old blackberrys its bad, but compared to modern smartphones its good. Many people here have never had a modern smartphone till the z10.
    Right. And just buy an extra battery with a charger and you're set for a full day no matter how much you use it. Can't do that with an iPhone!

    Posted via CB10
    10-01-13 02:47 PM
  25. Savior4Life's Avatar
    Meh, I said the same thing with my Z10 when I got it. The 'Honeymoon Period' was short lived for me and BBRY short commings became pretty evident quite quickly.
    10-01-13 02:48 PM
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