09-06-13 11:11 PM
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  1. lawguyman's Avatar
    Mmm... come again? Do you understand what color gamut means?
    FYI 50% wider is compared to its previous iteration, keep in mind. Nevertheless wider gamut only tells you about the range of colors it supposed to be able to show, it will tell you nothing about the color reproduction quality of the screen eg whether the maximum red is maximum red or it has a measurable yellow overcast...



    I work for a visualization firm, we do calibrate our displays regularly, I can easyli eyeball when one is off but that's off topic.

    Look at any OLED Samsung phone and put it next to a calibrated device, load the same test picture on both and you will cry.
    Now take an LCD-based high-end phone and put it next to the same calibrated display, load the same test picture on both and you will see a lot less deviation (still not perfect but MUCH closer.).
    If you really understood color science you would never make claims of 50% wider gamut and better color accuracy in the same display. Wide color gamut are almost always over saturated as compared to standards.

    When you are talking about nonstandard calibrations, you are then dealing with preferences. Like whatever colors you like but don't claim they are accurate.



    Posted via CB10
    07-12-13 04:56 PM
  2. anon5759238's Avatar
    Because its not a V8 silly! Its about the testosterone!

    Swordsmanship Channel: C000C9AF6
    07-12-13 06:34 PM
  3. xBURK's Avatar
    Z10 Lag? My company now has 155 BB10 phones in use. About half are Z10's. While we all agree we are looking forward to the 10.2 update, it doesn't have anything to do with lag. The smoothness of the BB10 operating system is what we like most of all. I'm not saying I don't believe someone would have this issue, just saying it's highly unlikely. I truly believe that the people who come on this site to cut up BlackBerry (beyond me by the way) have never tried one. If they did, they would be writing posts on a other sites making up tales of BS.

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-13 09:08 PM
  4. mithrazor's Avatar
    Yeah, because

    - it has 200 million loyal and satisfied users from times where the iPhone actually did have mega specs (BB10 not)
    - it always runs buttery smooth (BB10 not)
    - it's built and designed like jewelry (the Z10 and likely the A10 not)
    - it has the biggest number of apps (BB10 not)
    - it has the best quality apps (BB10 not)
    - every new must-have-app launches on iOS first (not on BB10)
    - it has loads and loads and loads of other content, too (BB10 not)
    - it has a boatload of available accessoires (BB10 not)
    - it has a seamless integration to many other hardware devices (hardware ecosystem) (BB10 not).
    - it still punishes Android flagships in some GPU benchmarks (BB10 not)

    Heins: "We're not in the specs race"
    Cook: "Well, we aren't for sure, but you definitely, Sir."
    - it came out 6 years ago (BB10 not, only 5 months ago)

    And BB10 does have hardware integration.It's just not proprietary so it can't be marketed as Apple does with their AirDrops and AirPlays and whatnot.
    07-13-13 02:07 AM
  5. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    At this point the hardware for the A10 is fixed. FIXED. Even assuming we had an influence on the spec at all, WE ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE IT NOW.

    Either hang out until we actually know the spec, or chill the f*** out. Srsly.

    From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10
    mithrazor likes this.
    07-13-13 02:52 AM
  6. BBThemes's Avatar
    At this point the hardware for the A10 is fixed. FIXED. Even assuming we had an influence on the spec at all, WE ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE IT NOW.

    Either hang out until we actually know the spec, or chill the f*** out. Srsly.

    From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10
    I guess people are just trying to rationalise how other devices that are gonna come out around the same time (so would also be fixed spec by now I imagine) are so much more highly specced.

    I don't think that's an unfair question to ask.

    Posted via CB10
    07-13-13 07:27 AM
  7. FFR's Avatar
    Nor does this mean 93% of 600 million people in the world are[b/] running [b/] iOS 6. It means Apple has a wicked upgrade rate on active devices still in use that support iOS 6.

    Your mistaken.

    "Apple announces 600 million iOS devices sold, 93 percent of devices running iOS 6"

    http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/6/10...s-devices-sold

    As for the 500 million active account users, I was mistaken.

    "Combined with the Apple's recent revelation that it has 575 million active iTunes accounts now, "

    http://gigaom.com/2013/06/19/itunes-...-ebooks-chart/





    And while they may very well have 500 million iTunes accounts ever made by way of anyone who has ever owned an iPod, iPhone, iPad, how many are activly in use?

    As for the 500 million active account users, I was mistaken.

    It's 575 million with Apple now adding 500,000 new iTunes accounts per day.


    "Combined with the Apple's recent revelation that it has 575 million active iTunes accounts now, "

    http://gigaom.com/2013/06/19/itunes-...-ebooks-chart/

    Only that people take Tim Cook's stats out of context and interpret them in ways that aren't true.
    Perhaps your misunderstood cook's number

    The reason 93% of 600 million is important, is because iOS 6 is only supported by the iPhone 3GS or later, the fourth-generation iPod Touch (current iPod is at 5th generation) the iPad 2 or later, and iPad Mini.



    QUOTE=RubberChicken76;8811103]

    As for the other stuff about people disagreeing with me, that's not really my point. I highly doubt people are picking up devices and getting all hot and bothered about the speed of the iPhone and grimacing about the allegedly arthritic turtle performance of the Z10. ;-) . BlackBerry 10 is pretty quick. I would imagine the concern is more around the apps that the orgasmically smooth iPhone experience ... that I have not consistently scene the way fanboys tell me will rock my world and never lag. It generally works well but is not foolproof. I'm not some BlackBerry fanboy here

    ... I have likely more Apple devices in my house (two MacBooks, two Apple TVs, iPad, Ipod, iPhone) than many)[/QUOTE]

    Which generation iPod touch are you using to compare iOS to bb10?
    07-13-13 09:51 AM
  8. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I guess people are just trying to rationalise how other devices that are gonna come out around the same time (so would also be fixed spec by now I imagine) are so much more highly specced.

    I don't think that's an unfair question to ask.

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry has not publicly stated the spec for the A10, and their competitors haven't said much either, so we're trying to compare speculation with speculation. Fruitless, if not dangerous
    07-13-13 03:19 PM
  9. BBThemes's Avatar
    BlackBerry has not publicly stated the spec for the A10, and their competitors haven't said much either, so we're trying to compare speculation with speculation. Fruitless, if not dangerous
    Errrr I guess you missed the Optimus G2 leaked in a video then? Kinda answers everything.

    Also without speculation this forum would be dead.

    Posted via CB10
    07-13-13 03:27 PM
  10. aha's Avatar
    At this point the hardware for the A10 is fixed. FIXED. Even assuming we had an influence on the spec at all, WE ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE IT NOW.

    Either hang out until we actually know the spec, or chill the f*** out. Srsly.

    From the awesome virtual keyboard of my Z10
    Even a better reason to sound out the frustration if we have any.
    07-13-13 04:18 PM
  11. aha's Avatar
    BlackBerry has not publicly stated the spec for the A10, and their competitors haven't said much either, so we're trying to compare speculation with speculation. Fruitless, if not dangerous
    Well, from what I know about BBRY, this rumored specs for A10 is very likely to be true. And it's in line with Thor's "we don't want to get in a spec war" argument.

    What BBRY failed to realize is, it doesn't matter they wanted it or not, they are already in the spec war and they have been losing in years. It's like before BB10 they didn't realize their OS needs to change, before BB10 their didn't realize most people doesn't need physical keyboard anymore, before BB10 they didn't realize security is not the priority for most smart phone users, before BB10 they didn't realize people wants tools AND toys... the list goes on.

    When people say BBRY is playing a catch up game, the first to catch up is the mind set.
    MarsupilamiX and tryfe like this.
    07-13-13 04:26 PM
  12. 40blind40's Avatar
    What really makes me think, and makes me shake my head, is that the loyal Blackberry community has spoken and
    Thor and the gang are still lost.
    Forget about the banter, forget about Apple and Samsung. BlackBerry has created an internal competition, meaning
    there struggling to understand who they are, are we a hardware manufacturer or are we all about software.
    There focus has been lost and there efforts to achieve there most modest goals has fallen short. We all understand now that
    the A10 will be a failure, even the tech community is starting to tear apart this new phone before they even take it for a spin.
    This is Blackberry failure, there failure to PR these pricks to death and there failure to educate the consumer on the differences BB10 offers against the competition. I fear if this community has judged this phone so harshly the average consumer will dismiss this phone as more of the same from a more of the same company.

    Say it ain't so Blackberry, surprise and amaze. I can live with the screen at those specs, but give my engine more muscle and memory.
    07-13-13 06:02 PM
  13. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Errrr I guess you missed the Optimus G2 leaked in a video then? Kinda answers everything.

    Also without speculation this forum would be dead.

    Posted via CB10
    LG has been the one company to see a bit of a sales bump in the past while. Big whoop, since they've been lost in the woods for a couple of years now. What I mean by "competitors" is, what is Apple, Samsung and (yes) Nokia going to have out by the time the A-series is available? Actually, we DO now what the Nokia 1020 is going to be, and aside from an interesting camera it's basically going to be a Z10 that runs Windows Phone.

    And I'm not saying it's wrong to speculate, but to try gauge a theoretical A10 spec against a theoretical generic competitor spec is of questionable value.
    07-13-13 06:16 PM
  14. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    What really makes me think, and makes me shake my head, is that the loyal Blackberry community has spoken and
    Thor and the gang are still lost.
    Forget about the banter, forget about Apple and Samsung. BlackBerry has created an internal competition, meaning
    there struggling to understand who they are, are we a hardware manufacturer or are we all about software.
    There focus has been lost and there efforts to achieve there most modest goals has fallen short. We all understand now that
    the A10 will be a failure
    , even the tech community is starting to tear apart this new phone before they even take it for a spin.
    This is Blackberry failure, there failure to PR these pricks to death and there failure to educate the consumer on the differences BB10 offers against the competition. I fear if this community has judged this phone so harshly the average consumer will dismiss this phone as more of the same from a more of the same company.

    Say it ain't so Blackberry, surprise and amaze. I can live with the screen at those specs, but give my engine more muscle and memory.
    We know absolutely ZERO about what chipset the A10 is going to have. Declaring it to be "a failure" would be like me calling your unborn kid a "loser". It might actually turn out to be accurate, but it's still a pretty presumptuous thing to say.

    Don't confuse community bitchiness about a theoretical spec with the quality of what they actually wind up shipping, 'k?
    07-13-13 06:20 PM
  15. lawguyman's Avatar
    LG has been the one company to see a bit of a sales bump in the past while. Big whoop, since they've been lost in the woods for a couple of years now. What I mean by "competitors" is, what is Apple, Samsung and (yes) Nokia going to have out by the time the A-series is available? Actually, we DO now what the Nokia 1020 is going to be, and aside from an interesting camera it's basically going to be a Z10 that runs Windows Phone.

    And I'm not saying it's wrong to speculate, but to try gauge a theoretical A10 spec against a theoretical generic competitor spec is of questionable value.
    IPhone has never had the best specs and it has always been the most popular phone on the planet. That is some good evidence that specs are not the only thing that matters.

    Are existing BB10 devices in any way under specd? IF so, how does it affect their performance? Concrete examples please.

    The spec that I am frankly most interested in is battery life. I would like to be able to hammer a device all day and not need to charge it.

    Posted via CB10
    07-13-13 06:31 PM
  16. aha's Avatar
    My opinions about A10's specs and BBRY's denial of the ongoing specs war that already involved them may sound hash, especially when I love my Z10 as is, but it is necessary because we are NOT the people BBRY needs to win over... the group of people they need to win over are among the 95% of users who are not currently using a BlackBerry phone, or the 75 million legacy BlackBerry users who are not yet on BB10.

    Those are the people who either likely to believe BlackBerry is slow and outdated because they already choose to use a none BlackBerry phone, or already know BlackBerry is slow and outdated because they are still depressingly using a legacy BlackBerry phone.

    To impress them and get a chance to try BB10, bringing in an undisputed (or leave the least room to dispute) winner to the table will be critical, not only the awesome awesome BB10, but also the amazing battery life, gorgeous screen and beastly computational power.

    When that device is out that, like what HTC one did for HTC, people will start talking about BBRY again, apps will automatically come to BB10 ecosystem. BBRY will then be officially back in the game...
    07-13-13 06:37 PM
  17. aha's Avatar
    IPhone has never had the best specs and it has always been the most popular phone on the planet. That is some good evidence that specs are not the only thing that matters.

    Are existing BB10 devices in any way under specd? IF so, how does it affect their performance? Concrete examples please.

    The spec that I am frankly most interested in is battery life. I would like to be able to hammer a device all day and not need to charge it.

    Posted via CB10
    IPHONE has always be leading in battery life, pixels density, graphic computational power, audio hardware, and on par or a little shy on raw computational power comparing to the flagship android devices. Those are all hardware specs.

    They were however pretty stubborn on the adoption of LTE , Quad Core Processors, NFC and micro USB interfaces. But that doesn't mean they don't care about specs.
    07-13-13 06:49 PM
  18. lawguyman's Avatar
    IPHONE has always be leading in battery life, pixels density, graphic computational power, audio hardware, and on par or a little shy on raw computational power comparing to the flagship android devices. Those are all hardware specs.

    They were however pretty stubborn on the adoption of LTE , Quad Core Processors, NFC and micro USB interfaces. But that doesn't mean they don't care about specs.
    I didn't say that Apple doesn't care about specs. I just said that Apple was never the leader in specs for the sake of specs. As a result, Android devices are almost always ahead of Apple in specs. With Apple, design comes first. The specs fit the design. This is not a bad approach.

    I am much more concerned with the A10's huge bezels than I am about the processor or screen, both of which are sufficient.

    Posted via CB10
    07-13-13 06:55 PM
  19. aha's Avatar
    I didn't say that Apple doesn't care about specs. I just said that Apple was never the leader in specs for the sake of specs. As a result, Android devices are almost always ahead of Apple in specs. With Apple, design comes first. The specs fit the design. This is not a bad approach.

    I am much more concerned with the A10's huge bezels than I am about the processor or screen, both of which are sufficient.

    Posted via CB10
    That may be sufficient for you and me... but BBRY already had our sales.

    Why do you think those sale people at store front push people away from BlackBerry? Why is it so hard to get people talking about BBRY without bashing them?

    Because for most of the people out there, BBRY is outdated and behind of the curve... or even, dying.

    Avoiding a all-out specs war, or pretending the specs war doesn't affect BBRY, is not going to change that perception.

    Winning a specs war does.
    07-13-13 07:19 PM
  20. aha's Avatar
    Damn I wrote a lot on my Z10 today, loving the keyboard!
    07-13-13 07:36 PM
  21. Dan Lam's Avatar
    After being tunnel-visioned into the group-think "BB IS BACK" mentality prior to the June 28 ER, I think people (myself included) need to be a lot more realistic when it comes to Blackberry as opposed to showing #BBPRIDE or whatever. Let's be real.

    The leaked specs are obviously underwhelming for a flagship product. If the A10 is supposed to be another catalyst that brings Blackberry back into the game, then it needs to have far better specs than what's be leaked. I sincerely hope the leaks are wrong.

    SCREEN RESOLUTION:
    To everybody saying that the BB devices are optimized for 720p, and that 1080p makes no difference so who cares... how do you think that plays into public perception? Public perception is the KEY driving force for a turnaround. People want the best specs available these days when it comes to their phones. They want their devices to be future proofed (at least for the short term). I'm pretty sure everybody who says "720p is just fine" has a spot deep down where they KNOW 1080p is what BB needs. At the end of the day, not many people are going to want a phone with 2012/2013 specs.

    APPS/DEVELOPERS:
    For those who argue that 720p is necessary to make it easier to scale apps and to keep developers happy... don't you see how small of a thought that is? Think bigger. Better specs = more subs = more opportunity for developers = more apps. It's simple really. Does Instagram care whether 720p is good enough? No. They care about the consumer base and whether it's financially worth their time or not. The same can be said for other large and small app makers out there. At the end of the day, everything comes back to public perception and consumer base again.

    BEZEL:
    Let's be honest, the bezel is huge. Obviously some people can deal with it, and that's fine. Good for you. But what would the general public think when they compare the A10 with another (cheaper) alternative like the new Optimus? The bezel is thin and beautiful, sleek and pretty. Compare that to the bulky and think, ugly and dated bezel on the A10? You have to remember, we're not trying to sell to only the die-hard BB lovers here. If the public thinks it's ugly and there are cheaper/sleeker looking phones out there, the A10 will be DOA.

    -

    At the end of the day, if the A10 were to be released today, it would already be underwhelming... let alone having it be released at the end of the year. Consumers will find prettier and cheaper alternatives. Developers will still be looking for reasons to build native BB apps. Blackberry really needs to up their game here if they want to get rid of the "BB is dead" mentality that everybody is trying to pretend doesn't exist. It exists. Talk to anybody without a BB right now and that's what they're thinking. To break that mentality, we need a reason to build up some hype, and a good place to start would be having AT LEAST comparable specs to the competition. 1080p, quadcore snapdragon, sleek minimalistic features (*ahem* the bezel)... that would be a good start for a turnaround.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    07-14-13 05:03 PM
  22. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    APPS/DEVELOPERS:
    For those who argue that 720p is necessary to make it easier to scale apps and to keep developers happy... don't you see how small of a thought that is? Think bigger. Better specs = more subs = more opportunity for developers = more apps. It's simple really. Does Instagram care whether 720p is good enough? No. They care about the consumer base and whether it's financially worth their time or not. The same can be said for other large and small app makers out there. At the end of the day, everything comes back to public perception and consumer base again.
    Says someone who isn't a developer. Apps are what drives a phone today and to release a phone with 1080 and not give developers a few months notice, you will release a phone with no apps.

    BEZEL:
    Let's be honest, the bezel is huge. Obviously some people can deal with it, and that's fine. Good for you. But what would the general public think when they compare the A10 with another (cheaper) alternative like the new Optimus? The bezel is thin and beautiful, sleek and pretty. Compare that to the bulky and think, ugly and dated bezel on the A10? You have to remember, we're not trying to sell to only the die-hard BB lovers here. If the public thinks it's ugly and there are cheaper/sleeker looking phones out there, the A10 will be DOA.
    Do understand why the bezel is there? It is for swipe notification from the device. If you have no bezel, then edge swiping will no longer be registered, if you move it intside the screen, then you reduce the usable area of the screen for apps as the edges of apps will now have to be the "bezel".
    At the end of the day, if the A10 were to be released today, it would already be underwhelming... let alone having it be released at the end of the year. Consumers will find prettier and cheaper alternatives. Developers will still be looking for reasons to build native BB apps. Blackberry really needs to up their game here if they want to get rid of the "BB is dead" mentality that everybody is trying to pretend doesn't exist. It exists. Talk to anybody without a BB right now and that's what they're thinking. To break that mentality, we need a reason to build up some hype, and a good place to start would be having AT LEAST comparable specs to the competition. 1080p, quadcore snapdragon, sleek minimalistic features (*ahem* the bezel)... that would be a good start for a turnaround.
    Since you have already predicted the outcome of the A10, can you please update us with the final specs? Thanks
    07-14-13 06:29 PM
  23. BrandonPBaby's Avatar
    The leaked specs are obviously underwhelming for a flagship product. I sincerely hope the leaks are wrong.

    SCREEN RESOLUTION:
    APPS/DEVELOPERS:
    BEZEL:
    At the end of the day, if the A10 were to be released today, it would already be underwhelming...
    You point out the RESOLUTION, APPS, and BEZEL are the reason the phone is underwhelming. You really should weigh the issues that will get people to buy the phone:
    APPS: 95% -- The biggest issue and will continue holding BBRY back.
    RESOLUTION -- 4.5% -- A factor but not a deal breaker if the other specs are in line with competition (cores, etc.)
    BEZEL -- 0.5% -- not really a factor for the average person buying the phone. I think the metal looks great myself.
    07-14-13 07:11 PM
  24. Deckard79's Avatar
    Someone should create an A10-related poll. Question number 1 should read:

    "Do you think the BlackBerry A10, with its reputed specs and leaked build photos, will win back BlackBerry's lost market share and reverse the company's floundering BB10 sales?"

    Fairly certain the vast majority, even on this BlackBerry enthusiast site, will answer 'no'.

    This will put the argument to bed once and for all.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-13 11:08 AM
  25. szlevi's Avatar
    If you really understood color science you would never make claims of 50% wider gamut and better color accuracy in the same display. Wide color gamut are almost always over saturated as compared to standards.
    To paraphrase someone funny "you really understood color science" you would know this makes exactly zero sense.

    When you are talking about nonstandard calibrations, you are then dealing with preferences. Like whatever colors you like but don't claim they are accurate.
    Another preciously hilarious comment - since when any calibration on a phone is not by preference, for God's sake?
    A desktop display is in a more or less steady light conditions - a phone is NEVER like that, if "you really understood" color calibration you would know very well that it only makes sense in terms of the surroundings.
    07-15-13 11:40 AM
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