09-23-13 08:27 AM
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  1. dale-c's Avatar
    There is such a thing as overkill and 1080 would have been that.

    Higher res means resources. So both performance and battery suffer.

    720 is what is on most 7 inch tablets now so I just don't think we need anything higher.

    Posted via CB10
    09-18-13 11:07 AM
  2. anon(3310921)'s Avatar
    The rational is sound. . . but of course as we know rational isn't a factor in "spec wars" ... lol
    beamolite and fatkiid like this.
    09-18-13 11:20 AM
  3. Rello's Avatar
    I wouldve liked to see 1080p...but people cant be mad when BB told people devices this year would have 720p displays. They kept their word lol
    mithrazor likes this.
    09-18-13 11:24 AM
  4. nikgilbe's Avatar
    Considering my laptop with a 15" screen is only running at 1366x768 which is pretty standard I don't think I'll be losing any sleep over 'only' having 720p on a 5" screen, especially if battery life is improved as a result.

    Z10STL100-2/10.2.0.1725
    kbz1960, mjdimer and Ealaionta like this.
    09-18-13 11:27 AM
  5. Chanlion's Avatar
    If it looks sharp in person then it's perfect. 1080 doesn't mean too much.

    It's like viewing 1080 on a Sony TV and some Chinese counterfeit 1080. If it looks amazing, then it is.
    09-18-13 11:59 AM
  6. iN8ter's Avatar
    Not sure why people are grasping to make excuses for underspeccing that screen on this device. The first Galaxy Note had an S3 SoC with a 720p screen... In late 2011... It still got great battery life.

    Not sure why you think a phone built in 2013 would suffer from a 1080p screen. The GS4, G2, and Sony devices don't tend to have issues with it. I think the only reason it has 720p is because BB hasn't yet build in support for it, similar to Microsoft's situation with Windows Phone 7-8 and screen resolutions.

    I doubt it has anything at all to do with battery life, which should not be an issue in a phone with these specs.

    The SoC is also underspeced relative to competing devices as well.

    Lastly, the difference between 720p and 1080p when the right resources are used is easily visible. Maybe not on a review video, but in person, especially given similar screen sizes it's plainly visible. Anyone looking at a GS4 and Z30 side by side will (or should, in the case of people who act like they don't cause they don't want to admit it) see the difference between those two screens.
    09-18-13 12:46 PM
  7. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Not sure why people are grasping to make excuses for underspeccing that screen on this device. The first Galaxy Note had an S3 SoC with a 720p screen... In late 2011... It still got great battery life.

    Not sure why you think a phone built in 2013 would suffer from a 1080p screen. The GS4, G2, and Sony devices don't tend to have issues with it. I think the only reason it has 720p is because BB hasn't yet build in support for it, similar to Microsoft's situation with Windows Phone 7-8 and screen resolutions.

    I doubt it has anything at all to do with battery life, which should not be an issue in a phone with these specs.

    The SoC is also underspeced relative to competing devices as well.

    Lastly, the difference between 720p and 1080p when the right resources are used is easily visible. Maybe not on a review video, but in person, especially given similar screen sizes it's plainly visible. Anyone looking at a GS4 and Z30 side by side will (or should, in the case of people who act like they don't cause they don't want to admit it) see the difference between those two screens.
    You need more power to process 1080 than 720. Either the CPU or GPU are involved, unless you depreciate the fluidity.
    It's always a balance between perception and cost ($ and C/GPU usage).
    BlackBerry choose to provide a "hard-day usage" battery capacity.
    Whatever chips calculation you'll use - and I do not pretend screen res is the only factor - you'll drain the battery more.
    Add the price relatives and you can understand why this choice has been made, IMHO.
    Now we have to check IRL the screen quality, with many factors that do not depend on resolution before we can define "perception".
    But that's no spec, that's usage.
    09-18-13 01:20 PM
  8. iN8ter's Avatar
    You need more power to process 1080 than 720. Either the CPU or GPU are involved, unless you depreciate the fluidity.
    It's always a balance between perception and cost ($ and C/GPU usage).
    BlackBerry choose to provide a "hard-day usage" battery capacity.
    Whatever chips calculation you'll use - and I do not pretend screen res is the only factor - you'll drain the battery more.
    Add the price relatives and you can understand why this choice has been made, IMHO.
    Now we have to check IRL the screen quality, with many factors that do not depend on resolution before we can define "perception".
    But that's no spec, that's usage.
    What you're saying makes literally no sense.

    It's the GPU, provided the proper hardware acceleration has been implemented, and devices since 2012 have been well equipped to deal with 1080p screens.

    Display Quality and Screen Resolution are not the same thing. Completely different components (like the glass used for the screen, lack of anti-fingerprint coating, larger air gap in the display, type of display used (AMOLED vs. LCD), etc.) come into play when looking at display quality. We're talking about screen resolution, here.

    The 720p resolution has nothing to do with battery life, as that has already proven to be a non-factor since the bevy of 1080p flagships have launched onto the market, and more to do with BB not having their platform ready for that display resolution. That, or the increased memory use is an issue. BB10 is notoriously RAM hungry/inefficient.

    Microsoft is in a similar situation with Windows Phone. They never used Battery Life as an excuse, as it would be laughable. They simply gave you the real reason. OS is not supporting it right now, and will be when it's ready.

    In any case, not only is the Screen a resolution from 2011, but the SoC is also old hardware at this point, among other things. There are mid-range devices with specs approaching the Z30, yet it has a flagship price tag. I think they're stretching things a bit. They cut a lot of corners to keep the price of this phone down (Bill of Materials-wise) while keeping margins up. This is why they're in the situation they're in, now.

    And I'm also interested in knowing if the camera has been upgraded and whether or not they had done anything with their bare camera software, which was a huge turn-off for me when I was considering the Z10. You can barely do anything with that thing IRT settings and adjustments, and image quality trails the competition.

    Lastly:

    The company says the phone has a larger battery that will last for up to 25 hours of "mixed use." Other updates include the latest version of the BlackBerry 10 operating system.

    Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/black...#ixzz2fGrch2wi
    Not sure where you are getting this odd terminology from.
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 09-18-13 at 01:54 PM.
    antikorr, fatkiid and Donvald like this.
    09-18-13 01:32 PM
  9. toutounjiomar's Avatar
    The GS4 supports 441 ppi which is crazy if you ask me, and even with a 441 ppi screen the Z10's screen is way more crisp and clear! It's all about the software and hardware getting together! Even the iPhone 5's screen looks more crisp than the gS4 but the gs4's screen colors are beautiful

    Posted via CB10 Z10 STL 100-01, OS 10.1 MR, Etisalat, UAE
    anon(3310921) and bradu1 like this.
    09-18-13 02:12 PM
  10. iN8ter's Avatar
    The GS4 supports 441 ppi which is crazy if you ask me, and even with a 441 ppi screen the Z10's screen is way more crisp and clear! It's all about the software and hardware getting together! Even the iPhone 5's screen looks more crisp than the gS4 but the gs4's screen colors are beautiful

    Posted via CB10 Z10 STL 100-01, OS 10.1 MR, Etisalat, UAE
    When you mirror 720 onto a 1080p display what is it then? Upscale 720p. There is reason why these OEMs use 1080p screens.

    The i5s screen does not look more crisp than Samsung, but go ahead. Anything to explain this away.

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    Donvald likes this.
    09-18-13 03:55 PM
  11. BBThemes's Avatar
    Add the price relatives and you can understand why this choice has been made, IMHO.
    im sorry but I find the price argument silly.
    Just look at the specs of other devices for one moment, lets say the SGS4. been out since march so `old` hardware right?
    Quad core CPU (better than Z30)
    Adreno 320 GPU (same as Z30)
    5" 1080p screen (better than Z30)
    2Gb RAM (same as Z30)
    13Mp rear camera (higher MP than Z30)
    2mp ffc with 1080p (Z30 only does 720p on ffc video)
    2600mAh battery (lower than Z30 2880mAh battery).

    now you look at how much better specced the SGS4 is, and how its delivered at a lower price than what we have seen so far for the Z30.

    rationalise that price relative. more expensive than the better specceed phone. just doesn't seem right does it.


    It should be noticed I have only concentrated on actual hardware specs, as OS useability and such is general all subjective per individual tastes.

    Bottom line? if your happy the Z30 is underspecced compared to its rivals, well, then I really don't know how to say anything to ya
    09-18-13 04:14 PM
  12. nikgilbe's Avatar
    The cost of the hardware is by no means the end of the story. BBRY has to recoup the cost of developing BB10, something Samsung doesn't have to worry about. Also, economies of scale kick in...with Samsung selling god knows how many millions, it's much easier to take a lower margin.

    Z10STL100-2/10.2.0.1725
    09-18-13 04:24 PM
  13. Kyle Andrei's Avatar
    My father has a 720p 51 inch plasma TV and it looks really good. I agree that 720p on a 5 inch phone will be sufficient.

    Posted via CB10
    09-18-13 04:28 PM
  14. Bobert_123's Avatar
    I wouldve liked to see 1080p...but people cant be mad when BB told people devices this year would have 720p displays. They kept their word lol
    LOL now they decide to keep their word? This is the first time in my life that I would have preferred it if BlackBerry had broken their promise.

    Posted via CB10
    rottonj and unbreakablej like this.
    09-18-13 04:42 PM
  15. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    What you're saying makes literally no sense.

    It's the GPU, provided the proper hardware acceleration has been implemented, and devices since 2012 have been well equipped to deal with 1080p screens.

    Display Quality and Screen Resolution are not the same thing. Completely different components (like the glass used for the screen, lack of anti-fingerprint coating, larger air gap in the display, type of display used (AMOLED vs. LCD), etc.) come into play when looking at display quality. We're talking about screen resolution, here.

    The 720p resolution has nothing to do with battery life, as that has already proven to be a non-factor since the bevy of 1080p flagships have launched onto the market, and more to do with BB not having their platform ready for that display resolution. That, or the increased memory use is an issue. BB10 is notoriously RAM hungry/inefficient.

    Microsoft is in a similar situation with Windows Phone. They never used Battery Life as an excuse, as it would be laughable. They simply gave you the real reason. OS is not supporting it right now, and will be when it's ready.

    In any case, not only is the Screen a resolution from 2011, but the SoC is also old hardware at this point, among other things. There are mid-range devices with specs approaching the Z30, yet it has a flagship price tag. I think they're stretching things a bit. They cut a lot of corners to keep the price of this phone down (Bill of Materials-wise) while keeping margins up. This is why they're in the situation they're in, now.

    And I'm also interested in knowing if the camera has been upgraded and whether or not they had done anything with their bare camera software, which was a huge turn-off for me when I was considering the Z10. You can barely do anything with that thing IRT settings and adjustments, and image quality trails the competition.

    Lastly:



    Not sure where you are getting this odd terminology from.
    (Bottom up)
    25 hrs of "mixed use" = +/- 13 hrs of heavy use = a whole day of heavy use (or - quoted because barely English - "hard-day usage")

    We're talking about definition, sure, but I clearly mentioned "perception" as a big point regarding overall "image quality". All the factors you mentioned (glass, etc) are very important here. If you compare a bulk HDTV with a Sony or Samsung one you'll instantly notice it (and yes, even with external source and even with same LED/OLED tech). I'm just pointing out that until we can actually see the device in our hands the bet BlackBerry made is hard to challenge.

    Now, you nailed the price tag and if you just compare (rumored) price of $620 (not Selfridges' 600 scam) to a Galaxy S4 or Sony Xperia Z launch price ... I believe it's up to $150 less or so (checked in Euros, may vary in USD).

    P.S : and sorry for my English, see VVV
    09-18-13 04:45 PM
  16. Infiniti14's Avatar
    Perhaps all the people who are freaking out about no 1080p should wait and see what the display actually looks like.

    Higher specs are generally for bragging rights. So in that regard Samsung wins, no question.

    That said my experience with a Nexus 4 leads me to believe it's quad core offers exactly zero advantage over the dual core in my Z10.

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR and felixweber like this.
    09-18-13 04:53 PM
  17. Asmooh's Avatar
    Me 2...


    But I will buy an AQ or slider

    I'm not allowed to post my pin in my signature anymore...
    09-18-13 04:54 PM
  18. iN8ter's Avatar
    Perhaps all the people who are freaking out about no 1080p should wait and see what the display actually looks like.

    Higher specs are generally for bragging rights. So in that regard Samsung wins, no question.

    That said my experience with a Nexus 4 leads me to believe it's quad core offers exactly zero advantage over the dual core in my Z10.

    Posted via CB10
    It's tegra 3,which is terrible compared to QC or Exynos on the CPU front. Tegra 3 devices all degraded in performance but were used because QC didn't have a quad core back then. See 1st Gen Nexus 7 performance degradation as the FW was updated.

    S4 > TEGRA 3. What was your actual point? We're talking about display resolutions, which are pretty upfront and objective (no benchmarks necessary). Don't derail that discussion.

    Great display with subpar resolution still has subpar resolution. No way to change that. You can optimize the software out of that fault, as may be possible with a weaker CPU.

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    Donvald likes this.
    09-18-13 04:57 PM
  19. dosto's Avatar
    720 is more than adequate for my purposes. IMO, phone specs have to the point to where it's more about how well they are utlized/integrated into the entire phone experience. The MotoX doesn't have the highest specs, but Android people are raving about it b/c of its usability. Sadly, BlackBerry doesn't seem to get the same benefit of the doubt.

    @dunaway - Posted with TMO Q10 via CB10
    09-18-13 04:57 PM
  20. iN8ter's Avatar
    (Bottom up)
    25 hrs of "mixed use" = +/- 13 hrs of heavy use = a whole day of heavy use (or - quoted because barely English - "hard-day usage")

    We're talking about definition, sure, but I clearly mentioned "perception" as a big point regarding overall "image quality". All the factors you mentioned (glass, etc) are very important here. If you compare a bulk HDTV with a Sony or Samsung one you'll instantly notice it (and yes, even with external source and even with same LED/OLED tech). I'm just pointing out that until we can actually see the device in our hands the bet BlackBerry made is hard to challenge.

    Now, you nailed the price tag and if you just compare (rumored) price of $620 (not Selfridges' 600 scam) to a Galaxy S4 or Sony Xperia Z launch price ... I believe it's up to $150 less or so (checked in Euros, may vary in USD).

    P.S : and sorry for my English, see VVV
    You're speculating the meaning, by simply halving the value? I laughed...

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    09-18-13 05:00 PM
  21. Cap_172R's Avatar
    LOL now they decide to keep their word? This is the first time in my life that I would have preferred it if BlackBerry had broken their promise.

    Posted via CB10
    Yep... and with that price tag, you shouldn't expect anything less... just take a look at the competition and see what they offer for that price range...
    09-18-13 05:00 PM
  22. Infiniti14's Avatar
    It's tegra 3,which is terrible compared to QC or Exynos on the CPU front. Tegra 3 devices all degraded in performance but were used because QC didn't have a quad core back then. See 1st Gen Nexus 7 performance degradation as the FW was updated.

    S4 > TEGRA 3. What was your actual point? We're talking about display resolutions, which are pretty upfront and objective (no benchmarks necessary). Don't derail that discussion.

    Great display with subpar resolution still has subpar resolution. No way to change that. You can optimize the software out of that fault, as may be possible with a weaker CPU.

    Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 4
    Screen quality is totally subjective. Higher pixel density does not mean the screen will automatically look better to every person. Of everything in the smartphone world screens are possibly the most subjective....just ask someone what screen brightness is the best.

    Unless you can compare every single component in both the Z30 and S4 you are focusing in on only one part of the story. Much like people gush over the nexus 4 quad core based on one spec.

    For another example, is the best car out there the one with the most horsepower? Because more is always better?


    Posted via CB10
    09-18-13 05:19 PM
  23. galleon's Avatar
    While I wouldn't say I was "Glad" for the 720p screen it doesn't bother me that 1080p is missing. It is interesting to me how the current 720p screens were sometimes advertised as so hi-res you couldn't make out the pixels with the naked eye, or at least from normal viewing distance.

    So its ridiculous to think that this is really necessary, or would actual be really beneficial. The resolution has reached its best, and more focus should be on quality and power efficiency. I can understand the spec wars, they will always be there, but don't get fooled by them.

    Of course the ppi is a bit less on these humongous phones but only marginally.

    EDIT: Its only fair to add that I have no desire for a phablet, therefore no Z30, otherwise I'd probably want 1080p just for bragging rights, and having the best.
    09-18-13 05:23 PM
  24. playbookster's Avatar
    As long as it outputs 1080p to my TV I'm happy


    Posted via CB10
    dusdal likes this.
    09-18-13 05:29 PM
  25. GTiLeo's Avatar
    i agree with you but Android vendors butchered the market, its a numbers game now and in that game 720p is dead, so from that aspect i would have liked to see 1080 just to say hey we can compete in specs but from a performance level 720p will end up being better for mobile use and will render higher FPS and better graphic generation due to the GPUs ability to process the images quicker and in a more efficient fashion. this is not a 22" computer screen where you can notice the pixels its a 5" smartphone with a high density, you'll see more benefits from the higher FPS then the higher pixel density
    09-18-13 05:37 PM
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