11-24-14 09:26 AM
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  1. imcurved's Avatar
    selling direct how ?

    in some countries most people are used to buy carrier subsidized phone, and most people buying phone in store . without carrier and store support they lost important distribution channel it will just making BB sell less and less phone...

    BB cant spend more money to rent or make their own store, besides selling on their own Blackberry have to spend more in marketing, customer support etc..they cant cut their prices if they have to spend more expenses...
    The same way they have been selling the Z10 and the Q10.

    ? CB10 ?
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    01-19-14 12:54 PM
  2. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    selling direct how ?

    in some countries most people are used to buy carrier subsidized phone, and most people buying phone in store . without carrier and store support they lost important distribution channel it will just making BB sell less and less phone...

    BB cant spend more money to rent or make their own store, besides selling on their own Blackberry have to spend more in marketing, customer support etc..they cant cut their prices if they have to spend more expenses...
    Selling direct does not mean they can not offer deals with carriers.
    When you buy a phone at phonehouse, you can buy it unlocked or with a carrier contract, aka subsidized ... that's not a big deal
    imcurved likes this.
    01-19-14 01:04 PM
  3. amjass12's Avatar
    WHOA! I'm in Dubai and i got my z30 for 331.88. Looks like the retailers out in the UK are putting a huge markup!
    The retailers here play on the lack of knowledge people have... think, the older generation and people that don't know about technology... and so they take advantagea. The mark is ridiculously high, the staff should just wear black and white stripe shirts

    Posted via CB10
    01-19-14 01:15 PM
  4. BBUK14's Avatar
    AFAIK, they build a low number of Z30 so that I presume they will sell it anyways, especially in enterprises.
    There's no need to rush the sales, they need them for high profiles incentives. (to answer your question more directly : they will sell all the Z30 IMHO).


    That's a shortcut.
    Selling a device does have a cost you must add to the building process.
    While your devices are in the inventory and you do plan to sell them at the normal price, there's no loss; that's immobilization. They count in the company balance as "value".

    Say you discount 30% of your stock by 50%, then you might be forced to discount the whole inventory value in the same proportion.
    You have 10K in stock
    You plan to sell 3 K at build value - say you sell them - you have operational costs = you lose money on operation. Then the value of the 7K left is deprecated by 50% : that's an inventory write down, exactly like the $1Billion we had for the Z10s.

    I understand what you mean, I stated above that my Z30 + 10.2.1 is - by far - the best BB10 experience I had, ever. But to show significantly to people "how good your phones are", you have to sell millions, not Ks. And to sell millions of Z30 - even at discounted price - you will need to spend hundreds $ MillionS... not going to happen, because they cannot afford it until the Brand shines back or at least stop being perceived as the dead horse. That's money they'll never get back.

    Again, the strategy here is to rebuild the brand perception, using the enterprises (which are nothing but the sum of their workers) as a prime target. Because in enterprises, "hype" is not the key. Efficiency is. And once the confidence that BlackBerry is here to last will be restored, ROI, security and BES goodness will be hear again ...

    Please also do not forget $BBRY has wall street scuiting any occasion to kill the stock. Chen said they will not lose anymore money with devices. That's a strong/tough commitment. I don't believe he can break it for the sake of several Ks of Z30. That's financial communication; the one that was muted previously; cant be proven falkse on his very first commitment ... would be the next E.R nightmare.

    edit : sorry, I hope this is understandable ... I'm quite exhausted ...
    Unless almost all of them go to enterprise, I don't see that happening, but we will see I guess.

    Posted via CB10
    01-19-14 01:16 PM
  5. garnok's Avatar
    The same way they have been selling the Z10 and the Q10.

    ? CB10 ?
    i see so in the end...it still the same strategy

    Selling direct does not mean they can not offer deals with carriers.
    When you buy a phone at phonehouse, you can buy it unlocked or with a carrier contract, aka subsidized ... that's not a big deal
    correct me if i am wrong...i dont think selling BB10 on phonehouse, count as selling directly...

    can BB offer BB10 from their website or their own store (selling directly) but still offer carrier subsidized price? even if the carrier already announce they dont sell anymore BB10 phone.
    01-19-14 01:57 PM
  6. lnichols's Avatar
    can BB offer BB10 from their website or their own store (selling directly) but still offer carrier subsidized price? even if the carrier already announce they dont sell anymore BB10 phone.
    They would have to have agreements with the carriers like Apple does to sell the phones directly with Service. It is not impossible, but I doubt the carriers would do it for BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    01-19-14 03:37 PM
  7. sam8250's Avatar
    I agree with the OP.

    BlackBerry needs to sell units to consumers as enterprises have BYOD strategies that will mitigate against the Prosumer strategy if BlackBerry does not appeal to consumers on the streets as they are the ones BYOD is targeted at.

    John Chen, over to you...

    Z30
    01-19-14 03:55 PM
  8. CDM76's Avatar
    Attachment 239312

    How can BlackBerry expect to sell the Z30 if it's 500 pounds?! That's absurd. I know Chen isn't going to expose the company to that type of inventory risk again, but at this point, the most important thing seems to me to be selling phones and getting the OS some exposure. With the Galaxy S4 selling at over 100 less than the Z30, it's really all a big bad joke.

    Just cut the price to 350 pounds - or even sell the thing at cost and get it out there. Waiting for a miracle is just not going to pay off. BlackBerry should just dump the Z10 and Z30 on the market as cheaply as possible and let the OS and phones speak for themselves. I just do not understand how such intelligent people can make the same mistake over and over again.

    Posted via CB10
    It's not too much. I bought one. Saying is too much is a personal opinion. For me it wasn't "absurd" price or "a joke".

    Although you are entitled to your opinion don't just assume everyone shares the same opinion.

    To me it's worth every penny and was a worthy investment.



    Posted via CB10
    01-19-14 04:05 PM
  9. BBUK14's Avatar
    It's not too much. I bought one. Saying is too much is a personal opinion. For me it wasn't "absurd" price or "a joke".

    Although you are entitled to your opinion don't just assume everyone shares the same opinion.

    To me it's worth every penny and was a worthy investment.



    Posted via CB10
    With all due respect to you, the point was that the overwhelming majority of people aren't the slightest bit interested. I would have bought one as well, if my Z10 weren't working perfectly well. It's a great phone. The issue is sales, not whether a few people like us love the phone. The aren't selling, won't sell, and will probably lead to another wave of negative news when written down....of course, I would be thrilled to be wrong about this.

    Posted via CB10
    01-19-14 04:29 PM
  10. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    They would have to have agreements with the carriers like Apple does to sell the phones directly with Service. It is not impossible, but I doubt the carriers would do it for BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    Why not?
    BlackBerry managing the sales, after sales, inventory and stock ... this many carriers would buy ! I believe they could even redistribute some pennies to BlackBerry for subs...

    Posted via CB10
    01-19-14 06:09 PM
  11. lnichols's Avatar
    Why not?
    BlackBerry managing the sales, after sales, inventory and stock ... this many carriers would buy ! I believe they could even redistribute some pennies to BlackBerry for subs...

    Posted via CB10
    Because BlackBerry doesn't have the pull they once had. Apple has a large number of retail stores that can and do provide support for the phones they sell where BlackBerry does not. My carrier even had me go to the Apple store to address an issue with my kids iPhone 5 because they said I would get better support and quicker resolution from Apple directly, and I had a replacement phone within 10 minutes of my appointment. BlackBerry can't even get the US carriers to release an improved OS in a timely manor.

    Posted via CB10
    rcab likes this.
    01-19-14 07:09 PM
  12. garnok's Avatar
    Why not?
    BlackBerry managing the sales, after sales, inventory and stock ... this many carriers would buy ! I believe they could even redistribute some pennies to BlackBerry for subs...

    Posted via CB10
    managing after sales...i think it will be very difficult, BB need to open several repair point it will cost lot of money....samsung and Apple can do that because they have lot of money, while with mail it will take to long to wait its not a good services
    01-19-14 08:41 PM
  13. CDM76's Avatar
    With all due respect to you, the point was that the overwhelming majority of people aren't the slightest bit interested. I would have bought one as well, if my Z10 weren't working perfectly well. It's a great phone. The issue is sales, not whether a few people like us love the phone. The aren't selling, won't sell, and will probably lead to another wave of negative news when written down....of course, I would be thrilled to be wrong about this.

    Posted via CB10
    Well that may be the point. But it's not what he/she typed. Maybe if said what meant it would be easier for people to decifer the meaning......

    Posted via CB10
    01-19-14 09:44 PM
  14. morpho4444's Avatar
    Here in Mexico, the price of the z30 out of contract is the equivalent to 400 USD
    01-19-14 11:26 PM
  15. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Because BlackBerry doesn't have the pull they once had. Apple has a large number of retail stores that can and do provide support for the phones they sell where BlackBerry does not. My carrier even had me go to the Apple store to address an issue with my kids iPhone 5 because they said I would get better support and quicker resolution from Apple directly, and I had a replacement phone within 10 minutes of my appointment. BlackBerry can't even get the US carriers to release an improved OS in a timely manor.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes apple, apple, apple is everything, the best, the legend, we know that. They're kind and organized enough to fix their "just out of the box" deffective devices on appointment and being praised and loved for not chargin you for that. Read me well: they're freaking stong, it's not bashing, even if I, personnaly, would claim for a refund.

    Again, it's irrelevant to compare to Samy and appl. It's not anymore, at least. Chen did state that many times. And I feel like I need better English to be understood : BlackBerry is not currently (and for a while) fighting against them. In fact, I believe they shouldn't have in the first place when they launched BB10 but have been fooled by firsts Z10 figures with ~ 50% of buyer that went from competitors to BlackBerry.

    They now choose to focus back to their home playfield : enterprises.
    And I applause.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 01-20-14 at 06:46 AM.
    01-20-14 05:39 AM
  16. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    managing after sales...i think it will be very difficult, BB need to open several repair point it will cost lot of money....samsung and Apple can do that because they have lot of money, while with mail it will take to long to wait its not a good services
    It can be done via post services or deposit points (incl carriers). As of date, unless your device is eligible for exchange (carriers can be alotted for that), any repair is done by return to BlackBerry; nothing new here.
    01-20-14 05:43 AM
  17. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    correct me if i am wrong...i dont think selling BB10 on phonehouse, count as selling directly...
    No, this was just an example of an independant distributor that can attach carriers subsciption. If phonehouse can, so does BlackBerry.

    can BB offer BB10 from their website or their own store (selling directly) but still offer carrier subsidized price? even if the carrier already announce they dont sell anymore BB10 phone.
    Yes (see above) and - some - carriers didn't announced they will not SELL anymore BB10 devices, but that they won't hold them in stock. May sound the same, but may also nail what I'm talking about : BB direct or co-branded sales.
    Remember : For enterprises, BlackBerry does NOT sell directly. There's always a carrier in the middle. And I'd be very surprised any carrier will dare to refuse a corporate sale, given the highest profitability they provide and all the attached services (ISP, land lines, ...). But you made me though ... what if BlackBerry becomes a carrier ?
    (very, VERY speculative and "out of the box" thought).
    01-20-14 05:47 AM
  18. bakron1's Avatar
    Blackberry will eventually have to come up with a pricing plan that is much better then their competitors if they expect to get the BB10 devices into the hands of consumers in order to rebuild their brand presence here in the USA, where in my opinion it is all but dead and buried. They still have some leverage in the defense and government sector but don't think for one minute that Apple, Google and Microsoft are going to sit back and let that continue. They have much more resources and working capital at the moment.

    As much as we want to preach how much more secure the BB devices may be, from my perspective the average American doesn't care about the NSA issue as much as one might think they do. There are some that are concerned, but those numbers are not the ones that will sell the amount of units that will be required to rebuild the brand here.

    I am speaking for what I have seen here in the USA and and folks here are all about price, value and customer support. They also look at what their family and friends are using when it comes to making a decision on what device to buy. And from what I have seen here the past year, there are not many Blackberry devices being used by the majority of the smartphone consumers here anymore.

    One example I just had was on Sunday when I went into a local Verizon store to check out the new z30 to see if it was some thing I would be interested in buying. The salesperson who seen me looking at the device ask me what device I would be interested in buying and I Pointed to the z30 and his response was, you are the first person to even ask about one of these devices, Blackberry is not no longer a brand our customers are asking for anymore and I found that I knew more about the device and it great features then anyone in the store. WTF!!!!

    As a consumer I was seriously concerned at this remark especially if I am going to shell out over 600.00 after taxes and wonder if these guys are still going to be around in 6 months based on what this person just told me? How can you expect to rebuild a brand if the very stores carrying your product are unsure about your future?

    I am still going to buy an unlocked z30 100-5 model I can use on T-Mobile because I fell in love with the z30 when I first held it my hands and played with the demo software for a couple of minutes, but based on what I heard from the folks in the store, I am a dinosaur here now.

    My question is, where the hell are the marketing folks from Blackberry and why are they not coming over here and reassuring the vendors here that they are going to be around for a while?????? Pricing???? That's only the tip of the melting iceberg.
    Last edited by bakron1; 01-20-14 at 08:59 AM.
    Shadowyugi and Grumblegrumble like this.
    01-20-14 07:45 AM
  19. Shadowyugi's Avatar
    Strange that I'm no ***** yet I could of brought a s4 for 279 but i decided to buy an iPhone for 340 not everyone likes plastic phones no matter how cheap they are dude but I wouldn't buy a z30 for 500 tho
    Fair point... Why didn't you just spend the money on a Z30 instead then?
    01-20-14 08:08 AM
  20. undone's Avatar
    Wow....What was isn't anymore. Expect something different from all the future BB devices. They will gain some strength on the hardware side with there deal with Foxcon. This is not to be over looked. It will afford them the opportunity to get the higher end components cheaper while either having a better margin or offering a better price.

    They will NOT permanently reduce the price on the Z30 until they offer a new unit to replace it. Also expect them to be bundling devices with enterprise roll outs, this is how you can leverage existing inventories (probably do that already).

    Never have a fire sale unless you are clearing inventory for new devices, because who is going to by hardware from a 'dead' company.

    Perception is 9/10s of the game.
    Shadowyugi and Superfly_FR like this.
    01-20-14 08:43 AM
  21. yessuz's Avatar
    It can be done via post services or deposit points (incl carriers). As of date, unless your device is eligible for exchange (carriers can be alotted for that), any repair is done by return to BlackBerry; nothing new here.
    There are authorised repair companies in my country who repair phones as per warranty.
    They do not send them to BlackBerry.

    Posted from Z10 with 10.2.1.1925 leak. Pwnage apparatus!
    01-20-14 08:44 AM
  22. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    There are authorised repair companies in my country who repair phones as per warranty.
    They do not send them to BlackBerry.

    Posted from Z10 with 10.2.1.1925 leak. Pwnage apparatus!
    Same will apply for BlackBerry selling directly ...
    01-20-14 09:17 AM
  23. Haytham Hamad's Avatar
    Talk about unrealistic pricing?!
    I was planning on an upgrade from a 9720 to a Q10, just checked the prices at my country:

    1- Z10 not available
    2- Q10 is $800 sim free
    3- Z30 This one is really funny ..... wait for it ..... also $800!
    01-20-14 09:31 AM
  24. lnichols's Avatar
    Yes apple, apple, apple is everything, the best, the legend, we know that. They're kind and organized enough to fix their "just out of the box" deffective devices on appointment and being praised and loved for not chargin you for that. Read me well: they're freaking stong, it's not bashing, even if I, personnaly, would claim for a refund.

    Again, it's irrelevant to compare to Samy and appl. It's not anymore, at least. Chen did state that many times. And I feel like I need better English to be understood : BlackBerry is not currently (and for a while) fighting against them. In fact, I believe they shouldn't have in the first place when they launched BB10 but have been fooled by firsts Z10 figures with ~ 50% of buyer that went from competitors to BlackBerry.

    They now choose to focus back to their home playfield : enterprises.
    And I applause.
    Wow. And BlackBerry never have out of the box defects? If I took the same attitude you just said of asking for a refund I wouldn't be using a BlackBerry either because I have had defects out of the box with them too. The difference is same day replacement with the Apple product, or a few day wait with BlackBerry because I have to go through the carrier.

    As for not competing against them, I hate to tell you this but they will be heavily competing against them in the Enterprise and Government space. The end users, from the CEO's and Secretary of X Department, down to the standard user, all want iPhone or Samsung and think that BlackBerry is dead or dying. The consumer side of the smartphone business surpassed the business/government side (mostly BlackBerry) and people wondered why their personal phones were so much better than the work issued ones, and then start making statements that Phone X should be used over BlackBerry. I've seen this happen even in Government agencies where security is key. Apple finally got FIOS, though limited in device and OS and Samsung is pushing forward with Knox, and even more secure Android devices are being looked at for stuff that not even a BlackBerry is allowed to operate on. So even though you think crawling back and focusing on the enterprise will get them out of the competition with those companies, it does not, and the consumer perception will drag into the business side because the end users will still be there and still saying "we should move to Phone X".

    Posted via CB10
    01-20-14 10:09 AM
  25. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Regarding your comment on 'just selling a product as cheaply as possible', what effect do you think the current strategy is having?
    My view on their pricing was only that "simply dropping the price" isn't always the answer. I've been in companies where that's all the sales team wants to do ... discount, then discount, then discount again. It got to a point where people thought the products were complete crap, losing money and then it was hard to get the price back up.

    Could they adjust the price? Probably. But it's not always as simple as just drop your price to the lowest possible and the customers will come. For example, I remember a sales initiative in stores that saw a heavy rebate yet no meaningful demand in revenue increase from the higher price or unit volume increase from the higher price. They crowed and crowed about how it needed to be done and it would be made up on volume. Except the volume never happened and we left money on the table.

    Price elasticity of demand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I actually think your proposal makes sense to try it at that price. Rather than whole-sale reducing it though, I'd probably do some special tests to see if it spikes the demand, then lower the price.
    undone likes this.
    01-20-14 10:26 AM
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