11-24-14 09:26 AM
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  1. Shadowyugi's Avatar
    My view on their pricing was only that "simply dropping the price" isn't always the answer. I've been in companies where that's all the sales team wants to do ... discount, then discount, then discount again. It got to a point where people thought the products were complete crap, losing money and then it was hard to get the price back up.

    Could they adjust the price? Probably. But it's not always as simple as just drop your price to the lowest possible and the customers will come. For example, I remember a sales initiative in stores that saw a heavy rebate yet no meaningful demand in revenue increase from the higher price or unit volume increase from the higher price. They crowed and crowed about how it needed to be done and it would be made up on volume. Except the volume never happened and we left money on the table.

    Price elasticity of demand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I actually think your proposal makes sense to try it at that price. Rather than whole-sale reducing it though, I'd probably do some special tests to see if it spikes the demand, then lower the price.
    Your points are very valid tbh... but I think what he was trying to get at is this...

    Law of demand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    01-20-14 10:40 AM
  2. Oglon3r's Avatar
    I think it is ridiculous that I have to pay a premium of $515 US dollars for an unlocked STA 100-5 model imported straight from freaking Canada. If you ask me holy **** this is truly brand loyalty.
    01-21-14 12:45 AM
  3. CDM76's Avatar
    I think it is ridiculous that I have to pay a premium of $515 US dollars for an unlocked STA 100-5 model imported straight from freaking Canada. If you ask me holy **** this is truly brand loyalty.
    But yet you probably have no problem shelling out $700+ for an iPhone or Android phone?

    At least BlackBerry isn't American made crap.

    Posted via CB10
    01-21-14 02:13 AM
  4. amjass12's Avatar
    But yet you probably have no problem shelling out $700+ for an iPhone or Android phone?

    At least BlackBerry isn't American made crap.

    Posted via CB10
    Once your an established brand, you can afford to sell your phone at premium price.

    Posted via CB10
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    01-21-14 03:55 AM
  5. bakron1's Avatar
    But yet you probably have no problem shelling out $700+ for an iPhone or Android phone?

    At least BlackBerry isn't American made crap.

    Posted via CB10
    Excuse me but the Blackberry phones are made in MEXICO and unlike some folks I do support products made in the USA and Canada to keep our folks employed. I have been that way all of my life.
    01-21-14 07:58 AM
  6. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Excuse me but the Blackberry phones are made in MEXICO and unlike some folks I do support products made in the USA and Canada to keep our folks employed. I have been that way all of my life.
    I get this argument but it only applies from a manufacturing perspective. It's not like the people in Waterloo, Mississauga, Ottawa, Fredericton and other BlackBerry locations in Canada all enter manufacturing order entry forms all day. The hardware, software is designed, developed, tested and sold out of Canada for the most part.
    01-21-14 12:22 PM
  7. Oglon3r's Avatar
    But yet you probably have no problem shelling out $700+ for an iPhone or Android phone?

    At least BlackBerry isn't American made crap.

    Posted via CB10
    Hell no I rather stay with my 9860... though it died and forced me to use an old 3GS which I hate with a passion. My point is why isnt Blackberry selling this directly in the US. This isnt about the money it is a about the obvious marketing blunder BB is making. Why make it hard for users that love BB to purchase one specific phone when they could be selling all their phones from their site directly. There is a brand of Linux laptops called System 76 they build their stuff as it is ordered thus saving themselves from those inventory write offs BB had to deal with in the past. This could work on their favor if they could set up a low cost controlled small facility just as these people have.
    01-21-14 12:49 PM
  8. bakron1's Avatar
    I get this argument but it only applies from a manufacturing perspective. It's not like the people in Waterloo, Mississauga, Ottawa, Fredericton and other BlackBerry locations in Canada all enter manufacturing order entry forms all day. The hardware, software is designed, developed, tested and sold out of Canada for the most part.
    No different then Apple, they designed and tested the iPhone in the USA and manufacture the units in China. The one thing they have been doing is building some if the newer iMacs in the USA instead of China which is great for the folks here in the USA.

    As I said, I support American and Canadian made products to keep our people working.


    Sent using the CB app
    01-21-14 02:39 PM
  9. CDM76's Avatar
    Once your an established brand, you can afford to sell your phone at premium price.

    Posted via CB10
    Uh huh. Sure.

    Regardless. BlackBerry is not looking to price for the avg consumers. They are pricing for higher end consumers and govs and large international companies. It may seem a little elitist or a little snobbish but it's the way it is. If you can't afford one don't buy one.

    Posted via CB10
    01-21-14 03:24 PM
  10. amjass12's Avatar
    Uh huh. Sure.

    Regardless. BlackBerry is not looking to price for the avg consumers. They are pricing for higher end consumers and govs and large international companies. It may seem a little elitist or a little snobbish but it's the way it is. If you can't afford one don't buy one.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes but apart from security. U get more on the other platform . At the moment it's a landslide victory. So ur limiting the customer base to those that need security only.

    I prefer a blackberry btw.. the user interface and experience is much better for me. But I disagree with ur message. Ur limiting blackberry to one type of customer... I dont know what blackberries strategy is... but, if they do go after the consumer as well.. they have to remain competitive., especially as they can't offer things like apps which is keeping customers loyal to android and ios.

    Just my two pence. I'm from the UK.. so it's my two pence.



    Posted via CB10
    01-21-14 03:30 PM
  11. CDM76's Avatar
    Yes but apart from security. U get more on the other platform . At the moment it's a landslide victory. So ur limiting the customer base to those that need security only.

    I prefer a blackberry btw.. the user interface and experience is much better for me. But I disagree with ur message. Ur limiting blackberry to one type of customer... I dont know what blackberries strategy is... but, if they do go after the consumer as well.. they have to remain competitive., especially as they can't offer things like apps which is keeping customers loyal to android and ios.

    Just my two pence. I'm from the UK.. so it's my two pence.



    Posted via CB10
    No. They are pricing for target market.

    Why price a phone at something a 16 year old can afford on a 10$ allowance when that is not the market they are targeting their phones towards? That's like a high school graduate complaining about the price of houses in the nicest area of Toronto being too expensive for them. Heck I'd love a porche designed phone but that doesn't mean I'm bithching and complaining about how expensive they are and that they obviously aren't targeting the market dynamic which I fall within.

    Again. If can't afford it don't buy it.

    Posted via CB10
    01-21-14 03:57 PM
  12. amjass12's Avatar
    Yes but the iPhone and higher end Samsung are not priced at the 10 dollar budget contract. They r pricey ( at least here in the UK they are) and that is what the masses seems to want. Blackberry's contracts are still even higher than that.n say by 4 pounds for the z30 currently ( maybe it has changed since then). .. Ur not actually getting more for ur money... so people will fork.out a substantial amount to get the latest phone tech... and at the moment ios and android dominate. blackberry can't price their contracts higher... the good thing is though that the value of the phone depreciates so quickly the contracts go down too..

    but like I said.. the z30 is still at a premium contract price... not acceptable.

    Posted via CB10
    01-21-14 04:06 PM
  13. 1magine's Avatar
    No. They are pricing for target market.

    Why price a phone at something a 16 year old can afford on a 10$ allowance when that is not the market they are targeting their phones towards? That's like a high school graduate complaining about the price of houses in the nicest area of Toronto being too expensive for them. Heck I'd love a porche designed phone but that doesn't mean I'm bithching and complaining about how expensive they are and that they obviously aren't targeting the market dynamic which I fall within.

    Again. If can't afford it don't buy it.

    Posted via CB10
    WTF are you talking about? Let's start with the last statement first,blah blah blah ...don't buy it. As a general rule, BB is not in the position now or in the last 3+ years to say don't buy it, to ANYONE! And the last 12 months has been about very few people buying the Z30. Very, very few. So much so that it is set to surpass the $1B write off of unsold Z10s. That's $1B. But hey great advice about who cares if you can't afford it, blah, blah.

    Next, pricing for target market. First we are a year into a product with an 18 month to 2 year max selling time on the back end of the selling bell curve. It did not sell at the $550 off contract price for 12 months - so your advice is - stay the course, it's appropriately priced. Again, brilliant deduction. Whether it was priced appropriate a year ago, is a matter of some conjecture, but much like a lost election, it's easy enough to say in hindsight something went wrong. OP contends that as much as anything else, the price was and remains too high for this device to sell, and reccomends a price drop, not just to clear inventory and get some return on investment, but more importantly to get BB10 into more hands(market penetration). And again your advice to sell more Z30s and get more market penetration? Sell to people like you.

    Not to quote some pseudo tv doctor, but how's that working for BB so far? Right.

    So maybe try something that is a staple of economic and business theory taught from Wharton Business School to Robert E Lee high school in TN. Adjust pricing. Or you know, don't, because you know, you like the phone, so it's worth it. And Benghazi something or another.
    lnichols, Shadowyugi and Tatwi like this.
    01-21-14 04:36 PM
  14. lnichols's Avatar
    No. They are pricing for target market.

    Why price a phone at something a 16 year old can afford on a 10$ allowance when that is not the market they are targeting their phones towards? That's like a high school graduate complaining about the price of houses in the nicest area of Toronto being too expensive for them. Heck I'd love a porche designed phone but that doesn't mean I'm bithching and complaining about how expensive they are and that they obviously aren't targeting the market dynamic which I fall within.

    Again. If can't afford it don't buy it.

    Posted via CB10
    The sub $200 Foxconn device seems to contradict this. Oh and all the elite customers you mention, care about price and if they can get more or better from a competitor, they will leave in an instant. Oh and that CEO or Cabinet level Secretary that wonders why he/she can't use the iPhone or Galaxy device and has to use a BlackBerry and all the negative opinions tied to the name, oh and more expensive now because they are "elite".

    Posted via CB10
    01-21-14 04:41 PM
  15. BBUK14's Avatar
    The question does remain I guess: how many Z30s did they make? If they can get away with pushing loads of them in enterprise customers now that there is positive sentiment, then perhaps there is some reason to maintain the high price for now. If there isn't a possibility of moving a huge percentage of them in this way, I still think it would be best to get them out to BlackBerry faithful with a huge tradeup offer.

    I really think such a thing would be great PR as well. 'BlackBerry Rewards Its Faithful With Massive Discount on New BlackBerry 10 Phones'. This seems far preferable to a write down or negative news about negative sales.

    Posted via CB10
    01-21-14 04:54 PM
  16. CDM76's Avatar
    The sub $200 Foxconn device seems to contradict this. Oh and all the elite customers you mention, care about price and if they can get more or better from a competitor, they will leave in an instant. Oh and that CEO or Cabinet level Secretary that wonders why he/she can't use the iPhone or Galaxy device and has to use a BlackBerry and all the negative opinions tied to the name, oh and more expensive now because they are "elite".

    Posted via CB10
    Incorrect. The Foxconn phone is being designed for emerging markets. Hence the lower price point. It is being priced in accordance with the market it is targeted towards.

    Posted via CB10
    01-21-14 07:20 PM
  17. lnichols's Avatar
    Incorrect. The Foxconn phone is being designed for emerging markets. Hence the lower price point. It is being priced in accordance with the market it is targeted towards.

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry changes its target market quarterly, after failing on the previous stated targets. Amazing how other companies can make a single phone and it be desirable in many markets. Anyway just ignore the rest of the post where everyone but the CTO and CIO has and will have a negative view of BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    01-21-14 08:00 PM
  18. arlene_t's Avatar
    I don't think it's unrealistic pricing. They are a premium product with a lot of benefits especially when use with BES. But these things don't matter much to ordinary consumers. They do not come with fancy camera and other marketing features but in my opinion it does still lead when it comes to communication. that is why they're making the Jakarta to make people aware of the bb10 which previous management failed. I just wish next design for their full touch phones will be set apart from other android phones. Like when you look at Q10 you see it's BlackBerry that it's different . I'm sure their engineers could do a better design that will have a BlackBerry signature of it's own even without the keyboard.

    Posted via the Amazing Q10 10.2.0.415
    CDM76 likes this.
    01-21-14 09:46 PM
  19. chrisro's Avatar
    I believe the Qs have been correctly positioned price-wise, because they are targeting those users who WANT/NEED their qwerty keyboard. And when customers really want/need something, they are going to pay more for it.

    But with the Zs, that's a totally different story: they face tough competion from the all-budgets Androids, the high-end iPhones and the low-mid budget WPs.

    Let me share what happened in Romania, a small and sort of a poor country in Eastern Europe. Nokia are really smashing the market, growing big time with the help of their excellent 520 priced at 100euros. And, as a matter a fact, people are sick and tired of lagging Androids and expensive iOs (5s is about 1000euros in Romania) and jump ship to WP in an impressive quickly manner. After a few weeks/months with the 520, they decide they like the OS and jump to 820s/925s or even higher. As a result, the dedicated WP apps are starting to lauch on an everyday basis: local banks, gas & electricity providers, cab companies, everybody's launching WP app nowadays. Which bring more customers for Nokia/MSFT.

    Blackberry launched Z10 at an enourmous price, very few afforded to spend +500euros on a brand new OS, without having the opportunity to try it and then upgrade to a better device. As a result, even the few local companies that had BB7 apps, gave up developing for BB10. There was (is) no use in it. And guess where the customers updating from BB7 went? Right, it was WP8.

    Now, with the price reduction on the Z10, which is listed for 230-250euros off-contract, those things are actually flying off the shelves. I was trying to buy a new Z10 STL-100/2 for a week now, with no success. Had to get one used for two weekd, in mint condition, but still used.

    But for now all traction is lost. Orange Romania, the biggest carrier around, unlisted the Z10 from their shops and also from online. They still carry the Qs and the 9720, because they (ironically) got their positioning better then BBRY did.

    All new local apps are only launching for iOS, Android and WP. And when the regular user see that advertised, he's not even thinking about BBRY. "Oh, those poor guys, they are dead".

    Ok, the tech-savy or BBRY die-hards as myself know about leakedOSs, installing apks and stuff, but that's what, 1% of the end-user? Not enough.

    Now I have an old Curve which still serves me, I have a PlayBook, a Q5 and tommorow gonna get my Z10. Do you imagine that if I haven't read CB Forums, would I've still ordered the Z? Nope, no way.

    Hopes this makes sense

    edit: please excuse my language mistakes, not a natural English speaker.
    CDM76 and Shadowyugi like this.
    01-22-14 09:52 AM
  20. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    So even though you think crawling back and focusing on the enterprise will get them out of the competition with those companies, it does not, and the consumer perception will drag into the business side because the end users will still be there and still saying "we should move to Phone X".
    Says you ... I don't.
    Because I believe once the end users will have BB10/BES10, either they will adopt the BB10 dual private/pro environments or add their iOs/Android CALs to BlackBerry cash pile. Then, and only then, BlackBerry can manage Joe's market recovery.
    01-22-14 02:09 PM
  21. BBUK14's Avatar
    I think the only thing that can save the Z30 at this price is potential enterprise sales. Perhaps that's the reasoning from BB. In light of the recent SP explosion, they might actually get away with selling more than expected to businesses who now feel as though BlackBerry is a safe bet for their business. Fingers crossed.

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    01-22-14 05:52 PM
  22. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I think the only thing that can save the Z30 at this price is potential enterprise sales. Perhaps that's the reasoning from BB. In light of the recent SP explosion, they might actually get away with selling more than expected to businesses who now feel as though BlackBerry is a safe bet for their business. Fingers crossed.

    Posted via CB10
    ^^^ THIS.
    Remember : each device sold in Enterprises can be discounted (as low as 1% net margin), because they are attached to reccuring revenues ... a la BIS for individuals: the former milk cow.
    01-23-14 03:13 AM
  23. BBUK14's Avatar
    ^^^ THIS.
    Remember : each device sold in Enterprises can be discounted (as low as 1% net margin), because they are attached to reccuring revenues ... a la BIS for individuals: the former milk cow.
    Ah...well in that case there is no point at all to the high price lol. I really think the thing to do is to go after BB7 users aggressively right now as well as the enterprise base. I know folks think I'm nuts when I say this, but BlackBerry isn't knocked out of the smartphone game permanently. I would try to upgrade as many BB7 users to BlackBerry 10 now before they are lost for two years to a contract with Apple of Android. Massive tradeup discount, and press release explaining that BlackBerry is trying to reward the faithful and introduce BlackBerry 10 to those who haven't experienced it and/or were worried that BlackBerry wasn't going to be around long enough to be worth investing in.

    In the UK especially, BlackBerry is FAR from gone. I see loads and loads of BlackBerry 7 phones every day, and people here aren't really that anti-BlackBerry unless they work in a phone shop.

    Posted via CB10
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    01-23-14 05:03 AM
  24. Shadowyugi's Avatar
    In my opinion, perception is half the battle. Even if its not for long, they have to make it seem like they are trying to reward existing blackberry 7 users for sticking with the brand by doing discounts and getting them onto BB10. Solidify its bases by locking BlackBerry fans to BlackBerry. Especially seeing as their marketing is 'bad'. What better way to faster sell their produce? Discount the phone for existing users, who will in turn show all their friends and might convince them to buy. Supply and demand only works if interest is generated. Interest is generated if the product is seeing to be attractive. Especially in this economic climate, discounts are attractive to the average customer.
    amjass12 likes this.
    01-23-14 05:24 AM
  25. BBUK14's Avatar
    I think the added benefit of a loyalty tradeup deal is that you obviously get to get the stock on the market at a huge discount without simply looking like a loser. You come out and say completely openly that you know people have been scared off of committing to a new BlackBerry because of the uncertainty, etc, but that people can now jump on it - the water is warm. I don't think any of this is going to happen though, and I really wonder how BlackBerry are planning on dealing with the Z30 sales failure that seems imminent.

    Posted via CB10
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    01-23-14 05:32 AM
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