[BBUK14]

Guys, it does not matter one bit when a phone was released in relation to another phone. No consumer is going to buy a Z30 because it was released three months ago, or whatever. Just use your brains for a minutes - would you?

People buy phones in the present, not in the past or future, and they aren't running a charity. They buy a phone in a moment, and if BlackBerry are out of position in device or price, BlackBerry loses.

On top of straight up honest comparisons of features, OS and price, BlackBerry need to pay for the negative impact of the salespeople in the shops. People are price sensitive, UNLESS you are Apple and have already established a cult-like culture around brand (and well done to Apple for accomplishing that). None of this understanding is apparent in BlackBerry's pricing.

At 325 sim free in the shops, the Z30 has a chance to sell in limited numbers. A price of 299 pounds sim free at Carphone Warehouse would be perfect, as they sell the Z10 at 150.

On top of this, BlackBerry should offer a very attractive trade in price for current BlackBerry users. If you bring in your old BlackBerry, you get 50 pounds off your new BlackBerry 10 phone. It's much wiser to go after the current BlackBerry 7 user right now before they leave for Apple or Android and are lost forever, or for at least two years.

BlackBerry need to find small battles they can win, and hit them with overwhelming force. Right now that means buying their way back into the market. Alas, BlackBerry aren't likely to do any such thing. Be prepared for a massive bit of bad news about Z30 inventory in the coming months.

Posted via CB10

[garnok]

That was measured by a single app that is available for all the BB10 devices that it provided stats for.
The article mentions December, so I guess that's the number of sales in that specific month.
Q5 was released before Z30 and as the stats prove, the pricing is not what BB10 users seek in a smartphone (contrary to my and the OP expectations).

so a single app can become solid proof that BB Z30 account for 8% total BB10 phone ? i dont think so....

besides 8% is still low number...BB never reveal sales number per product, i guessing Q5 have the lowest sales from all of the BB10 phone, it has the weakest hardware specs, and when the time Q5 launch,mZ10 prices almost match Q5.

and in some countries BB selling Z10 more cheaper than any BB10 phone ( starf from $199)

[imcurved]

BlackBerry needs to sell them direct at a reasonable price.

? CB10 ?

[imcurved]

BlackBerry consumers shouldn't have to go shop around for a good deal. Unfortunately, if you want a BlackBerry, you have to.

? CB10 ?

[vrud]

so a single app can become solid proof that BB Z30 account for 8% total BB10 phone ?

No, I'll listen to the OP screaming to use our brains and the fact that he can't afford Z30 meaning that others are not buying.

Sarcasm of course.

[zlatno]

I was just in Selfridges here in London mate. It's on for 499.95. Perhaps it's cheaper elsewhere, but that's what customers are seeing in actual shops.

Most people are not going to throw hundreds of pounds at Amazon to get a phone. They want the assurance of picking it up from a real shop and carrying it with them.

That's just reality, as inconvenient as it is.

Posted via CB10

At this moment, customers in shops are NOT BlackBerry target market. BlackBerry has made it abundantly clear that they will be concentrating on the enterprise market.
What you see in stores is irrelevant.
AND Samsung S4 is being discounted before the release of the newer S5. As far as I know, there is no new Z coming out any time soon.

[Kamika007z]

While it may seem harsh, I agree with the OP.

It's better to sell, than not sell at all.

They are priced way too highly. If I remember correctly the Sony Play stations were sold at a loss at first when the new model is first released because they know not everyone wants to pay an insane amount for a system.

The more hands you get it into, the better the recognition of the brand.

[garnok]

BlackBerry needs to sell them direct at a reasonable price.

? CB10 ?

selling direct how ?

in some countries most people are used to buy carrier subsidized phone, and most people buying phone in store . without carrier and store support they lost important distribution channel it will just making BB sell less and less phone...

BB cant spend more money to rent or make their own store, besides selling on their own Blackberry have to spend more in marketing, customer support etc..they cant cut their prices if they have to spend more expenses...

[garnok]

No, I'll listen to the OP screaming to use our brains and the fact that he can't afford Z30 meaning that others are not buying.

Sarcasm of course.

i dont think OP said he can't afford Z30, i think he sees it from value for money S4 have better value for money...Samsung S4 have better brand image, better hardware, better apps selection etc so selling Z30 higher or match S4 prices will only make others choosing S4 than Z30

[sixpacker]

While it may seem harsh, I agree with the OP.

It's better to sell, than not sell at all.

They are priced way too highly. If I remember correctly the Sony Play stations were sold at a loss at first when the new model is first released because they know not everyone wants to pay an insane amount for a system.

The more hands you get it into, the better the recognition of the brand.

Agreed, the pricing makes no sense when they should be trying to reestablish their battered brand and get bb10 into as many hands as possible, word of mouth would then help sales.
Given they won't spend money advertising it I just don't get it.
Unless they've already written it off as a failure and are happy to carry on burning cash until the Foxconn products are launched. Who knows.

[1magine]

Are you implying your personal experience (you didn't buy the phone) or you have some stats?
I linked an article where they found that Z30 sells significantly more than Q5 meaning that people are not running after pricing but likely bigger screen and/or better antenna reception.

He is saying selling against other smartphones. Jeez criminy, some folks...

What he is saying is Business 101. If your product isn't selling cut the price. If your product isn't selling and you have limited market penetration, sell at a loss and write down some inventory. Failure to do so, results in a BILLION DOLLAR WRITE DOWN. A billion dollars last year in Z10 inventory, and by many estimates as much if not more of the Z30 inventory will get written down. Problem with BB is they have for more than half a decade refused to take a chance. They have played things right down the middle and gotten killed. Either go big or go small. They have cut corners on hardware and programming in order to save a few dollars and development time. The result has backfired both on timing and hardware. So you can leave the Z30 out there for another year, (because that strategy worked so well with the 9850 and 7.0/7.1 devices), or dump the inventory on the market at cost or below and get some market penetration which will help you recoup costs when the next generation of phone finally hits.

Finally Z30 on Verizon $550 off contract. And that's the lowest price - unless you go to e-bay. But that does not help BB on sell through.

[reeneebob]

Are you implying your personal experience (you didn't buy the phone) or you have some stats?
I linked an article where they found that Z30 sells significantly more than Q5 meaning that people are not running after pricing but likely bigger screen and/or better antenna reception.

I sell the darn things, and I just had to RMA the original 2 Z30 we got at launch. They didn't sell. On the other hand we've sold countless Z10, probably 6 Q5 and a couple of Q10 (they also didn't sell as well as I thought they would). I showed that Z30 off to people as much as I could and no dice.

I know you saw an article, but anecdotally I'm speaking from actually selling them, not reading about selling them, and the Z30 was a total nonstarter. Which sucks because it's a beautiful device.


Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD

[BBUK14]

I would like to apologise for perhaps using a bit of spicy language. Sorry lol. Honestly, I just find all of this extremely frustrating to watch.

We have a new CEO, but a stupid sales model. There is no sense saying that BlackBerry are concentrating on Enterprise. That's just what losers say, and everyone knows it. Only BlackBerry, and blind BlackBerry fans, buy this garbage. If BlackBerry have phones in the shops then they are trying to sell to consumers. Full stop. Don't fool yourself.

I think their thinking is pretty obvious. They don't want to sell the phones at cost or at a loss, because, well...who does? at the same time you probably have some jokers saying that cutting the Z30 like that will damage the brand image.

The reality is that things cannot get much worse for the brand image and can improve through sales and word of mouth advertising. The phones are good phones, and BlackBerry 10 is great. That is the best selling point for BlackBerry.

As they aren't going to advertise, the best move is to get these phone out of inventory asap so that when the new ones drop the OS isn't in the same state of near complete obscurity.

I honestly cannot understand why this isn't obvious to most people. We can argue about what would or wouldn't work perhaps, but defending what is going on right now is hopeless.

Posted via CB10

[1magine]

No, I'll listen to the OP screaming to use our brains and the fact that he can't afford Z30 meaning that others are not buying.

Sarcasm of course.

VRUD - Let me ask you is Z30 selling? Show me some figures or proof that the Z30 is selling at a rate that matches any phone in it's class. According to all the latest numbers I see, (not my anecdotal experience) the Z30 is not selling as well as the S4 which came out a year ago. It's not selling as well as the HTC One. It's not selling as well as the IP5 or 5S.

You know, we just lived through this over the last 5 years, repeatedly. I am not so ignorant as to not see history repeat itself, or so hateful of Blackberry that I want to see them bankrupt.

[vrud]

What he is saying is Business 101. If your product isn't selling cut the price.

That's where I wanted clarification - on why we believe that Z30 is not selling.
I'm not saying that see it otherwise, I just looked at the stats and was surprised to see that they pushed so many expensive phones.

Besides, the equilibrium rule doesn't mean you need to decrease price to maximize profits.
Perhaps they should increase the price because those crazy folks who purchase Z30 can pay even higher premium.

Also, a smartphone product can be improved by software updates (as we've seen with Z10 progress) and that would imply better user adoption without price changes. Similarly, product marketing plays a significant role.

Bottom line, I don't agree that lower price is the way to go.

[npunk42]

The Z30 on contract at Verizon is 199.99, the Note3 is 299.00 on contract. That's more apples to apples than the Z30 to the S3.

[vrud]

VRUD - Let me ask you is Z30 selling? Show me some figures or proof that the Z30 is selling at a rate that matches any phone in it's class. According to all the latest numbers I see, (not my anecdotal experience) the Z30 is not selling as well as the S4 which came out a year ago. It's not selling as well as the HTC One. It's not selling as well as the IP5 or 5S.

You know, we just lived through this over the last 5 years, repeatedly. I am not so ignorant as to not see history repeat itself, or so hateful of Blackberry that I want to see them bankrupt.

The only link I had is the one I posted.
Sorry, I didn't make a thorough research and BB doesn't report per device shipment numbers (or I missed those).

I wouldn't expect a Z30 to sell in numbers comparable to iPhone or other dominant market players today.

Yes, lowering the price might produce surprises and outsells the competition but I doubt they would do that.
My impression is that we'll see device erosion from the retail space and going through different channels (i.e bundle with BES, direct to corporations, etc).

[rcab]

Well they are not selling in the United States except for a few Verizon stores that have them in stock. T-Mobile and AT&T are not carrying them. There is no push from BB to sell them direct to U.S. consumers. The longer they stay in warehouses the more they age. I am sure many Z10 users locked in to 2 yr contracts would consider buying another BB if they were priced right and available to buy direct off contract from BB. As stated by others I think selling them at what ever discounted price would be better than just letting collect dust in some warehouse. I understand focusing on the enterprise side but at the same time they need to face reality that there are still active consumers who would acquire their phones if they made them available

[Shadowyugi]

This particular comment is probably the best I've read!!! It is the small battles that count. A lot of people in UK (based on friends and strangers alike) are beginning to turn against BlackBerry and the pricing for the phones is not doing it any favours.

People are willing to spend MONEY on Apple products. Because they are Apple products. And should they see a BlackBerry phone with a similar price, their defence would be "Why would I pay �xyz on a BlackBerry when I can get a better phone from Apple about the same price?"

That's the average consumer thinking right there...

[1magine]

That's where I wanted clarification - on why we believe that Z30 is not selling.
I'm not saying that see it otherwise, I just looked at the stats and was surprised to see that they pushed so many expensive phones.

Besides, the equilibrium rule doesn't mean you need to decrease price to maximize profits.
Perhaps they should increase the price because those crazy folks who purchase Z30 can pay even higher premium.

Also, a smartphone product can be improved by software updates (as we've seen with Z10 progress) and that would imply better user adoption without price changes. Similarly, product marketing plays a significant role.

Bottom line, I don't agree that lower price is the way to go.

The problem is not how good the phone is. Not at this point. This market is very specialized and has a set of rules that are a little different. This market relies a great deal, (and I would and have argued, 'more so') than other markets on momentum. Pre-launch leaks to build excitement rolling, pre-launch marketing ('IT'S COMING!), big launch, top reviewers giving high marks, sales blitz and marketing all build to a successful product life. Without momentum, or momentum being stalled because of poor reviews, poor pricing, poor marketing etc.. The products in this market do not recover from poor initial momentum. They don't. These products have a useful selling life of 9 months to a year. Then they ALL are $0 or $1 with a 2 year plan or upgrade. They are found used on e-bay for $200 or less and sell through slows. By two years out, most have stopped selling almost entirely and are at least 2 full generations back. But, what happens if a product never got up to speed in the first place. Never generated allot of excitement. Never marketed or priced properly and has no market penetration, no word of mouth? It sits. No software improvement or marketing is going to get the device to budge. The Z-30 is not selling through, and not on the Enterprise end either. Last I had heard RSA was not functioning properly on the device. 3 months in this market is a lifetime if a device is not selling.

[1magine]

The Z30 on contract at Verizon is 199.99, the Note3 is 299.00 on contract. That's more apples to apples than the Z30 to the S3.

Except we were all speaking about off-contract price. But even that said, the problem is phones in the $200 on a 2 year contract are kicking Z30's hiney in sales numbers. That much I believe should be clear to everyone. The issue is what to do about it. OP has suggested cutting price and selling direct to consumers at or below cost. Myself and others agree. That is what the thread is about.

[sixpacker]

The only link I had is the one I posted.
Sorry, I didn't make a thorough research and BB doesn't report per device shipment numbers (or I missed those).

I wouldn't expect a Z30 to sell in numbers comparable to iPhone or other dominant market players today.

Yes, lowering the price might produce surprises and outsells the competition but I doubt they would do that.
My impression is that we'll see device erosion from the retail space and going through different channels (i.e bundle with BES, direct to corporations, etc).

Anecdotal I know but several businesses I know of are dropping blackberry and moving to other platforms. The damaged brand is out there in the public domain Not just the consumer space. Also at the end of the day enterprises want their staff to be happy with the phone they are supplied with. I just don't see a credible strategy here.

[ezrunner]

BlackBerry doesn't control the price we as consumers pay at the counter. The retailer does.



Posted via CB10

[NaijaBerry]

I was just in Selfridges here in London mate. It's on for 499.95. Perhaps it's cheaper elsewhere, but that's what customers are seeing in actual shops.

Most people are not going to throw hundreds of pounds at Amazon to get a phone. They want the assurance of picking it up from a real shop and carrying it with them.

That's just reality, as inconvenient as it is.

Posted via CB10

You're absolutely correct. Q10 is �500 and Z30 is �480 online even at carphonewarehouse, now thats ridiculous really!

[NaijaBerry]

Attachment 239312

How can BlackBerry expect to sell the Z30 if it's 500 pounds?! That's absurd. I know Chen isn't going to expose the company to that type of inventory risk again, but at this point, the most important thing seems to me to be selling phones and getting the OS some exposure. With the Galaxy S4 selling at over 100 less than the Z30, it's really all a big bad joke.

Just cut the price to 350 pounds - or even sell the thing at cost and get it out there. Waiting for a miracle is just not going to pay off. BlackBerry should just dump the Z10 and Z30 on the market as cheaply as possible and let the OS and phones speak for themselves. I just do not understand how such intelligent people can make the same mistake over and over again.

Posted via CB10

That's crazy though.....currently selling for �322 equivalent in Nigeria......Z30 Smartphone | Konga Nigeria SIM free of course