1. bull_thumper's Avatar
    Greetings.

    I moved from a 9930 to the Z30 just before Thanksgiving, still using the stock firmware, and overall have been quite satisfied.

    When on WiFi, I have had essentially zero issues. Everything just works. However when away from WiFi, data connectivity has been spotty at best. So I figured I would present this to the community to see if the are any tips, suggestions or perspectives.

    First, it seems that the problem centers around web browsing. For example, about two hours ago, I was waiting in the truck for about 15 minutes and tried to access a few web pages and couldn't even get google.com to load. When I attempt to load a page, the screen clears and progress bar zips to a seemly random point and just stops while emails could be sent and received without delay.

    Last week, I was checking to see what time a store closed and had the same problem and eventually gave up. About 10 minutes later, I discovered the page had loaded perfectly. When I got home, I did some experiments. Turning on WiFi to my home network, the page loaded promptly. Turn it off, it wouldn't load. Alternating between these produced consistent results. As with today, I could send and receive emails without delay.

    That said, right now, at home, I'm on LTE and am having no issues at all. Even Speedtest.net loaded and ran essentially as quick as it would on my laptop. (50 ms, 7.80 down, 11.36 up.)

    In my area, Verizon does have a good signal in most places and even in a known poor signal location, the Z30 does better than other devices that have been tried there. Also I am in a rural-ish, small town area without any big buildings to affect signal quality. I really don't think fundamental coverage is the issue.

    Also as a factoid, I have often had this problem with my 9930, as well. I just thought it was the aged platform but now I'm not sure.

    Well, interesting. Still sitting in the same spot, now I can't get the speed test to load, nor the Radio Shack site, nor Google. Then a few minutes later, now the pages are loading on LTE. Because of evidence like this, it really does not feel like a BlackBerry, OS10 or Z30 sourced issue.

    My personal guesses are that either (a) the Verizon data connection in my area has been spotty for years or (b) there are one or more towers in the area that are suffering from data issues or (c) only the HTTP services in this area is what is spotty.

    A call to Verizon resulted in the typical "BlackBerry phones are not good for the Internet" and was suggested to trade for an Apple or Samsung product. (Buzz. Not going to happen at this juncture.)

    All that said, here are my basic questions:

    First, perhaps to narrow down the issue to a particular tower, is there a program which would give me tower information ? On the 9930, there was a detailed service mode that could be activated. Is there a similar feature for 10.2 ?

    If this is a DNS issue, can I override DNS on LTE connection to point directly to OpenDNS or another server ?

    Would a VPN service be of any benefit in trying to isolate this ?'

    Anyhow, I apologize for the lengthy post; I just wanted to be somewhat complete. Thank you for any input or ideas that you might be able to provide.

    Cheerios!

    Dan
    12-31-13 02:02 PM
  2. bull_thumper's Avatar
    Update : I am right now unable to use the browser but the Crackberry application is working, as evidenced by this post (assuming that it made it!)
    01-01-14 04:25 PM
  3. bull_thumper's Avatar
    Another update : On LTE, I still cannot use the stock browser, however Evolution Browser works, fully loading pages.

    I then turn WiFi on and both browsers work fine.

    I'm wondering about if any of the settings are causing me problems. For example, on the Developer Settings, desktop mode is on but disk cache and show composited rendered layer borders are off.

    I have tried turning flash on and off as well as clear history and cookies. Of course I have rebooted the device.

    Still grasping at straws...
    01-01-14 08:38 PM
  4. zimmelbc's Avatar
    I've had similar issues on my Z30 with the browser not loading Google or the progress bar showing the page loading but never finishing. I'm also on Verizon and mostly in LTE territory. I haven't been able to trouble shoot much with the holidays but plan to if it keeps happening.

    Posted via CB10
    bull_thumper likes this.
    01-01-14 10:22 PM
  5. bull_thumper's Avatar
    Sadly, it's good to know that I'm not crazy.....at least with regards to this issue.

    Today has been quiet, so I have spent a pretty decent amount of time trying to find a pattern or some clue.

    I'm not sure that it is Verizon because of my latest test where I was able to use my tablet via the WiFi hot spot. Performance was good; page loading was consistent.

    I even tried to access the same site from the Z30 and the tablet at the same time. Tablet loaded it in about 2 seconds while the BlackBerry had not after two minutes.

    The other test was to drive around in hopes of getting on different towers. Sometimes pages loaded. Often they didn't.

    What puzzles me the most is that non-web browsing seems to be rock solid.

    Funny. With all of this testing, my monthly data usage is at 280 MB with one day to go!

    Thanks for chiming in. Please let me know if you learn something that helps.
    01-01-14 11:44 PM
  6. Omnitech's Avatar
    There are a huge amount of variables that apply to issues like this.

    Web pages as a performance test are often very dicey as a testing metric as there are tons and tons of aspects of particular webpages that can affect how that page loads.

    These days with websites loaded down with oftentimes dozens of different offsite trackers, scripts, advertising networks and so on, any one of all these different things could cause the webpage to load slowly, partially or not at all.

    If you live in a flat rural geography, you are likely in an area with a very low tower density. Since data traffic can consume 100s of times more network capacity than voice traffic, it generally gets lower priority when the traffic traversing that tower is reaching capacity.

    If you are close to a major highway, traffic on the highway can have a large impact on the load on a particular tower. One bus goes by and that could be 50 people all yapping on their phone at the same time.

    For performance testing, I would suggest sticking with websites which are very simple, without advertising, as a benchmark. Popular websites like Youtube or CNN and the like are probably not good choices for benchmarking.

    It's good you have the Evolution browser because that will eliminate some of the issues commonly causing "stalls" on the native browser, ie slow-loading crappy offsite advertising networks.

    If you have some specific questions about performance issues beyond what I touched on please post a followup.


    Aside: sad that Verizon is now actively pushing people away from Blackberry. They were the last carrier in the USA that was still giving Blackberry some support.
    bull_thumper likes this.
    01-02-14 03:54 AM
  7. Omnitech's Avatar
    Re-reading the OP...

    I don't believe you can override IP parameters for the carrier internet link without going into "seeekrit" functions which users are generally not supposed to play with. (the terminology is "escreen", but I would discourage you from attempting to mess with that unless you are very very sure what you are doing, and it is most definitely NOT user friendly)

    You could try playing around with a VPN though my guess is that it most likely will not solve this issue.

    Companies like Verizon typically run massive front-end web proxies for various reasons, chief among them bandwidth management and performance. You can pretty much assume any web traffic is being routed through them.

    There could have been some transient issue with their web proxies, the web server you were trying to connect to may have not "liked" something about the IP address your traffic was coming from, or there could be transit issues handing off from Verizon's network to the next hop destination, etc etc.

    The VPN might bypass the web proxy and give you an idea if that is causing problems, but VPNs add performance issues of their own.

    HTH
    01-02-14 04:00 AM
  8. bull_thumper's Avatar
    Thank you for your reply.

    "Web pages as a performance test..." I'm not concerned with the difference in speed. I'm only referring to getting pages to load in the first place. If I were to attach a sample screen shot animation, image a white screen with a blue progress bar that advances quickly (as expected) and just stops. Sometimes after a few minutes I get the page. Usually not.

    What it really feels like is that there is some include file, image or other resource that isn't getting loaded and thus the page load sequence gets "stuck".

    "...very low tower density." Actually, I am in an area with an excellent signal and numerous towers. I have mapped them out and have three Alltel / Verizon towers within 2 miles of my home. In fact, my signal is so good that the phone doesn't have to 'work' hard and thus my battery life is most excellent. On my old 9930 with an 3000 mAh extended battery, I could often reach five days of use. My Z30 on lighter days easily exceeds two days.

    "...sticking with websites which are very simple." I really have not gone to many web sites on the Z30 as yet, aside from tests when I first got it. In fact, the only sites I have been concentrating on is a personal 'links' web site (one HTML file, two include files and one single-pixel GIF), google.com, startpage.com and radioshack.com . My philosophy is that if my simple personal 'links' web site cannot load, I definitely have some serious issues.

    I set up XAMPP / Apache on a test computer at my residence and punched a port through. The results mirrored the other tests:

    Z30 on home WiFi to good a cable modem service, stock browser is essentially 100% reliable; on LTE, not even close.
    Z30 connected via WiFi to Verizon Jetpack on LTE, stock browser is about 90% reliable.
    A Windows 8.0 tablet, Windows 7.0 laptop and Android tablet connected to the Z30 via the hot spot are essentially 100% reliable.

    [Yes, I am observing that the Z30s hot spot feature works better than my Verizon Jetpack. That said, I haven't been really thrilled with the Jetpack ever since my local Verizon store erroneously REQUIRED me to retire my (sorely missed) Kyocera express card cellular modem, Cradlepoint CBR1000 router and Wilson wired car booster.)

    Interestingly, I maintained a RDP connection to a server at the office via LTE for about 45 minutes last night. Granted, not a lot of traffic was required as I was simply monitoring something, but before, during and immediately after the session, the stock browser was only loading pages maybe 10% of the time.

    It does seem that I am having far better success with the Evolution browser. The sad part is that I rather prefer the stock browser. I'm hoping with the 10.2.1 update is available that I might be able to use the Android Chrome browser or perhaps another choice.

    Anyhow, at this point, it seems to be clear that, at least in my area, for whatever reason, the stock browser seems to be the culprit. As you alluded, I feel it is that an HTTP GET is failing and thus causing a cascade failure.

    I think I might make a road trip to a neighboring city and try the service there.

    Again, thank you for your time and reply.
    01-02-14 04:29 PM
  9. peter0328's Avatar
    When the browser refuses to load but all other data works try and toggle network connection off then back on again.

    That fixes it for me on Verizon.

    Posted via CB10
    bull_thumper likes this.
    01-02-14 05:43 PM
  10. bull_thumper's Avatar
    I had rebooted the phone, especially since the Z30 reboots so quickly, but maybe the logging out and back in will do something different. I will try that next time I have difficulties. (Difficulties with data...)

    Thanks for your reply
    01-02-14 11:41 PM
  11. Omnitech's Avatar
    "Web pages as a performance test..." I'm not concerned with the difference in speed. I'm only referring to getting pages to load in the first place. If I were to attach a sample screen shot animation, image a white screen with a blue progress bar that advances quickly (as expected) and just stops. Sometimes after a few minutes I get the page. Usually not.

    What it really feels like is that there is some include file, image or other resource that isn't getting loaded and thus the page load sequence gets "stuck".


    I have noticed the same issue with the native BB10 web browser at times and honestly I think it's a web browser quirk more than anything else.



    My philosophy is that if my simple personal 'links' web site cannot load, I definitely have some serious issues.

    I would generally agree with that, unless the server that site is hosted on is flaky or poorly connected.




    I set up XAMPP / Apache on a test computer at my residence and punched a port through.


    I don't know what you mean by "punched a port through". You mean set it up so you can access it from the internet at large?



    The results mirrored the other tests:

    Z30 on home WiFi to good a cable modem service, stock browser is essentially 100% reliable; on LTE, not even close.


    Please clarify this because if both the test computer and your Blackberry are on the same network (when your BlackBerry is connected to your home WiFi), then it sounds possible that you are actually not traversing the internet to access the test computer's webserver.



    Z30 connected via WiFi to Verizon Jetpack on LTE, stock browser is about 90% reliable.
    A Windows 8.0 tablet, Windows 7.0 laptop and Android tablet connected to the Z30 via the hot spot are essentially 100% reliable.

    [Yes, I am observing that the Z30s hot spot feature works better than my Verizon Jetpack. That said, I haven't been really thrilled with the Jetpack ever since my local Verizon store erroneously REQUIRED me to retire my (sorely missed) Kyocera express card cellular modem, Cradlepoint CBR1000 router and Wilson wired car booster.)


    I'm trying to find where you mentioned your Z30's hot spot feature prior to your parenthetical "aside". When you said "connected to the Z30 via the hotspot" in line 2 above, did you actually mean "connected to the Z30's built-in hotspot"?

    I had a Kyocera modem back in the day, but an EVDO one, not an LTE one. I don't think I could handle going back to EVDO these days.

    My LTE/EVDO JetPack made by Novatel (6310L or 6320L or something like that) works quite well, I like it a lot better than the Samsung one I had before that. The only thing I would wish for is 5Ghz radio support (due to how stupidly congested 2.4Ghz can be sometimes), but the saving grace on that device - and something the Samsung doesn't have - is the ability to tether it via USB, eliminating the device-to-JetPack wireless link entirely if needed.

    I could never find a Cradlepoint device that appealed to me, their battery-powered models never had the functionality or design I wanted.


    It does seem that I am having far better success with the Evolution browser. The sad part is that I rather prefer the stock browser. I'm hoping with the 10.2.1 update is available that I might be able to use the Android Chrome browser or perhaps another choice.

    If Shao would just add an "open in new tab" feature, I would switch to Evolution as my primary browser. I have a very difficult time going back in time 10 years just to use a mobile browser that is completely missing any form of ad blocking, script blocking or cookie control, just to name a few things that I consider minimum requirements for web browsing these days. (And ironically: bloated, garbaged-up websites are FAR more of an issue on an anemic handheld device with a tiny screen, than they are with a desktop computer.)


    Last thought: some BB10 firmware revisions are better than others when it comes to radio performance. If you are using an official Verizon release, generally the radio performance is good. If you're using a leak, it's likely that that code was never tested on their network and may not perform reliably on it.
    01-03-14 12:48 AM
  12. bull_thumper's Avatar
    "...server that site is hosted on..." I have several servers in several locations, including at home. I would generally classify them all as reliable. For example, at the office, we have three separate connections for reliability.

    "...punched a port..." Yes, I have some private servers on non-standard ports. Traffic on these ports are directed to specific computers / IPs. I can access them from anywhere. Also, at home, I have a static IP.

    "Z10 on home WiFi to a good cable modem..." My tests are across the Internet. However I have tested them in-house but didn't mention it because I am not absolutely certain on this, but I *think* have had issues accessing pages on the LAN.

    My reference to the hot spot was in the 11:44 PM post: "I'm not sure that it is Verizon because of my latest test where I was able to use my tablet via the WiFi hot spot. Performance was good; page loading was consistent. I even tried to access the same site from the Z30 and the tablet at the same time. Tablet loaded it in about 2 seconds while the BlackBerry had not after two minutes."

    So, yes, I turn on the Z30s hot spot and have connected a variety of devices. In short, I have had the Z30 in a state where it would not load pages while connected devices performed well. This is one the primary reasons I felt the stock browser was at fault.

    EVDO was great for the day. Everything got bigger and thus that level of performance became obsolete. They're sitting next to a Novation Cat and just about as useful!

    My JetPack / HotSpot is made by ZTE. It's okay but not great. Battery life is terrible. Performance is so-so. I had several Cradlepoints, the last being a MBR-1000. I had one in a portable bag, modified with a little fan to evacuate the heat, an SLA that powered the MBR-1000 and a Wilson amp. Worked great, even in the bowels of a football stadium. Why did I do this? Because, like you, I wasn't satisfied with their battery powered models.

    I haven't spent a lot of time with the Evolution browser. Since I am generally sitting in front of a desktop or laptop computer, my BlackBerry becomes essentially a phone-only device. That said, I'm glad to have it as an option in case of issues because when on-the-go, I do appreciate the power of todays mobile devices.

    And for reference, I'm not stuck on any platform. I have Windows desktops and laptops and an iMac on my desk, Microsoft, Android and Playbook tablets and, of course, the Z30. I even have a CP/M computer behind me that still works perfectly. I like and use all technology.

    It's like my philosophy about the automotive world: I like all cars and can find something positive about every one of them because I see that each was designed with a specific definition, market or price point in mind.

    Oh, and for your last point, I am still using the standard 10.2.0.1233 that came with my Z30. I have resisted installing the (ever tempting) leak until I get fully comfortable and fluid with the BB10. (Still getting there... I just wished there was a gesture to get to the root of the hub, kinda like a three-finger salute, errrr, swipe.)

    Anyhow, it's 3 AM. I guess I should try to get a bit of rest. Thank you again for your assistance.
    01-03-14 02:57 AM
  13. Omnitech's Avatar
    "Z10 on home WiFi to a good cable modem..." My tests are across the Internet. However I have tested them in-house but didn't mention it because I am not absolutely certain on this, but I *think* have had issues accessing pages on the LAN.

    Yep well if so, then I think it's fairly clear that it's probably a browser issue, especially since you seem to possess enough technical knowledge to probably have your home network setup reasonably correctly.


    So, yes, I turn on the Z30s hot spot and have connected a variety of devices. In short, I have had the Z30 in a state where it would not load pages while connected devices performed well. This is one the primary reasons I felt the stock browser was at fault.

    And of course this also points at the native browser, or else something terribly wrong with the IP stack or something, in ways that only affects local apps and not "passthrough" traffic.

    (Aside: I discovered over the last couple of months that Opera 12.16 on Win7 has a habit of getting into some kind of deadlock attempting to load certain page elements at certain times on certain pages, and when it does that, it completely hoses the Win7 IP stack for at least 90-120 seconds, so that nothing else can communicate until Opera finally gets out of its own way.

    Especially frustrating since Opera "classic" will probably never get another significant update, and their "new improved" replacement is complete garbage.)



    My JetPack / HotSpot is made by ZTE. It's okay but not great. Battery life is terrible. Performance is so-so. I had several Cradlepoints, the last being a MBR-1000. I had one in a portable bag, modified with a little fan to evacuate the heat, an SLA that powered the MBR-1000 and a Wilson amp. Worked great, even in the bowels of a football stadium. Why did I do this? Because, like you, I wasn't satisfied with their battery powered models.

    Sure, but I would never go as far as to carry some giant bag around with a lead-acid battery, full-sized router and RF amplifier in it just to get a little better signal. Perhaps I'm spoiled, living where I do.



    I haven't spent a lot of time with the Evolution browser. Since I am generally sitting in front of a desktop or laptop computer, my BlackBerry becomes essentially a phone-only device. That said, I'm glad to have it as an option in case of issues because when on-the-go, I do appreciate the power of todays mobile devices.

    Another handy feature of Evolution, which I have found totally essential in many ways, is you can change the USER-AGENT string.

    There are idiotic websites like Yelp which refuse to recognize the native BB10 browser as a mobile client (basically they're not following well-known protocols and instead using browser-sniffing scripts that only know the specific strings they put in there, which are of course cartoonishly incomplete), so such websites are almost completely unusable on the native browser as a result. Whereas all I have to do is set the user-agent to either "iPhone" or "Android" on Evolution and Yelp's webpage works peachy.



    Oh, and for your last point, I am still using the standard 10.2.0.1233 that came with my Z30. I have resisted installing the (ever tempting) leak until I get fully comfortable and fluid with the BB10. (Still getting there... I just wished there was a gesture to get to the root of the hub, kinda like a three-finger salute, errrr, swipe.)

    Good to know.

    Re: "hub root" gesture, you're not the only one wishing for that. One interesting thing I've noticed with the OS's in the 10.2.x.x series and higher - at least the builds I have: they included what appears to be a dumb/redundant icon whose sole purpose is to open the Hub.

    Which sounds pretty useless, but as it turns out - it actually takes you to the Hub's root, even if you were in a subfolder previously. Just gesturing back to the Hub won't do that.

    Re: leaks in general - I'm a former member of "BerryLeaks", so I know a bit about leaks. If you have any questions let me know.

    Cheers..
    01-03-14 03:32 AM
  14. bull_thumper's Avatar
    "Hub icon". I saw that but it doesn't take me to root of the hub. Wished it did.

    One other thing that I could use is the ability to compose two messages at once. I would expect that the root hub menu would have two added entries for "incomplete" messages, perhaps highlighted with a color stripe or something.

    My "Internet bag". I used to have to operate from anywhere. Came in quite handy. Especially in the early days of mobile data. It beats plugging in my HST modem into my Panasonic car phone transceiver and hoping to get 2400 baud on a good day!

    BTW, I only needed mobile data twice today but it worked perfectly. Go figure!
    01-03-14 10:01 PM
  15. Omnitech's Avatar
    "Hub icon". I saw that but it doesn't take me to root of the hub. Wished it did.

    Pretty strange, it works on both my 10.2.0 and 10.2.1 devices.


    One other thing that I could use is the ability to compose two messages at once. I would expect that the root hub menu would have two added entries for "incomplete" messages, perhaps highlighted with a color stripe or something.

    Yep, others have asked about this. The only way to do it now is save a message as a draft and then return to it.


    My "Internet bag". I used to have to operate from anywhere. Came in quite handy. Especially in the early days of mobile data. It beats plugging in my HST modem into my Panasonic car phone transceiver and hoping to get 2400 baud on a good day!

    Heh. I have some of those USR Courier modems, though newer versions than the HST-only ones.

    I also have a Telebit that has its own proprietary protocol, a couple of Multitechs and various other things. I used to work for a modem manufacturer.
    01-04-14 08:10 AM

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