07-25-14 10:50 AM
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  1. shahoman's Avatar
    Does the BB system still do the data compression and save data how it previously did on the old phones which had BIS?
    04-15-14 10:57 AM
  2. Sith_Apprentice's Avatar
    Does the BB system still do the data compression and save data how it previously did on the old phones which had BIS?
    Only through BES now. BIS doesnt exist for BB10 devices.
    shahoman likes this.
    04-15-14 10:59 AM
  3. shahoman's Avatar
    So that means it will typically use the same amount of data as compared to an iPhone or Samsung? As opposed to the BIS traditionally how it used 2 compress and this also reduced data roaming bills
    04-15-14 02:47 PM
  4. cgallaer's Avatar
    So that means it will typically use the same amount of data as compared to an iPhone or Samsung? As opposed to the BIS traditionally how it used 2 compress and this also reduced data roaming bills
    Yes.

    Blackberry Z10: STL100-3, OS 10.2.1.537
    04-15-14 07:16 PM
  5. skilas's Avatar
    Yes, be careful about this. I definitely had sticker shock when checking my data usage after switching from 9900 to Z30. My data usage basically tripled. I used to average under a GB, now I'm around 3gb. Cost me like $50 in overage the first month.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30
    04-16-14 04:12 PM
  6. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
    Yes, be careful about this. I definitely had sticker shock when checking my data usage after switching from 9900 to Z30. My data usage basically tripled. I used to average under a GB, now I'm around 3gb. Cost me like $50 in overage the first month.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30
    BlackBerry made this very public you really shouldn't have been shocked; also heavily talked and argued against the decision countless times on these boards if you where a member that frequented since launch. That said great alerting the op and others - best to get an unlimited data account per month or at least a 6GB/mth pkg for data alone!

    PS: hunt for free wifi when you can find it.

    BlackBerry Q10 ? & Full Metal CB10!
    MobileMadness002 likes this.
    04-16-14 07:46 PM
  7. TI_Master's Avatar
    BES10 helps a ton if email is a large percentage of your usage. I'm running BES10 on a VM and tying it to a paid Office 365 account. I get an insane amount of email, BES10 dropped my usage by at least 2/3.

    Posted via CB10
    04-16-14 08:49 PM
  8. cgallaer's Avatar
    BES10 helps a ton if email is a large percentage of your usage. I'm running BES10 on a VM and tying it to a paid Office 365 account. I get an insane amount of email, BES10 dropped my usage by at least 2/3.

    Posted via CB10
    This is one reason why I hope BlackBerry offers consumers some kind of cloud BES service if for nothing else but data compression for emails and instant push for non-active sync emails like in the good ole days of BBOS.

    Q10: SQN 100-5 v. 10.2.1.2102
    Raestloz and Furell like this.
    04-16-14 11:24 PM
  9. Raestloz's Avatar
    This is one reason why I hope BlackBerry offers consumers some kind of cloud BES service if for nothing else but data compression for emails and instant push for non-active sync emails like in the good ole days of BBOS.

    Q10: SQN 100-5 v. 10.2.1.2102
    I'd rather like to have a free version of BES for personal use (won't be BES anymore, maybe BIS for BlackBerry Individual Server?) which we can put to use for ourselves.

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.2102
    04-16-14 11:37 PM
  10. muellerto's Avatar
    - best to get an unlimited data account per month or at least a 6GB/mth pkg for data alone!
    I don't agree with that at all. This is exactly what providers typically want. This is Apple-typical brainlessness where the customer is proud to pay a lot for this with his money and his data. - I am the customer. I want my mobile to do what I want, not what they want. And I want to have some kind of control about what data is sent all the time.

    I think RIM made an unbelievable big mistake here. They could have placed themselves on the market apart of the very common idiocy. They could have said "We do it indeed smarter." They could let BIS survive for all even if the customer pays for this. - But they didn't, they said "We do it now like all the others." The abandonment of data compression and message push - two unique killer features! - is a great loss.

    BTW: They could also open their devices for 3rd party providers. Why not have a BIS from someone else? A local or private one?
    04-17-14 01:06 AM
  11. Raestloz's Avatar
    I don't agree with that at all. This is exactly what providers typically want. This is Apple-typical brainlessness where the customer is proud to pay a lot for this with his money and his data. - I am the customer. I want my mobile to do what I want, not what they want. And I want to have some kind of control about what data is sent all the time.

    I think RIM made an unbelievable big mistake here. They could have placed themselves on the market apart of the very common idiocy. They could have said "We do it indeed smarter." They could let BIS survive for all even if the customer pays for this. - But they didn't, they said "We do it now like all the others." The abandonment of data compression and message push - two unique killer features! - is a great loss.

    BTW: They could also open their devices for 3rd party providers. Why not have a BIS from someone else? A local or private one?
    The entire point of BIS is to get them through BlackBerry's server, so that the communication is secure. It makes no sense to license it to 3rd party.

    You can use BES to achieve the same data compression, that's as local as it can be right now.

    Carriers don't like paying for BIS. By using the same data plan for everyone, you can use your BlackBerry 10 device without additional hassle.

    Perhaps for international travel BIS is cheaper, but for local internet, standard data plan is much cheaper for end users in Indonesia.

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.2102
    04-17-14 01:44 AM
  12. muellerto's Avatar
    The entire point of BIS is to get them through BlackBerry's server, so that the communication is secure. It makes no sense to license it to 3rd party.
    Security is another topic, we spoke about data compression (and I spoke about push technology). And why is security bound to a BB server? Why shouldn't a local company have the same or even better security standards? Especially my provider who already has all my data as well?
    You can use BES to achieve the same data compression, that's as local as it can be right now.
    Can I? As a single private person? Where is the next BES that I can use?
    Carriers don't like paying for BIS.
    That's right, but they all had the infrastructure already for years and it worked. It was a technical need when the networks were not fast enough.
    04-17-14 02:57 AM
  13. jpvj's Avatar
    BES10 helps a ton if email is a large percentage of your usage. I'm running BES10 on a VM and tying it to a paid Office 365 account. I get an insane amount of email, BES10 dropped my usage by at least 2/3.

    Posted via CB10
    BES10/BB10 will try to compress data transmitted to/from the work space.



    Posted via CB10
    04-17-14 03:46 PM
  14. Raestloz's Avatar
    Security is another topic, we spoke about data compression (and I spoke about push technology). And why is security bound to a BB server? Why shouldn't a local company have the same or even better security standards? Especially my provider who already has all my data as well?
    Can I? As a single private person? Where is the next BES that I can use?
    That's right, but they all had the infrastructure already for years and it worked. It was a technical need when the networks were not fast enough.
    Security and BIS cannot be separated. When you speak of BIS you also need to speak about security, since BIS' entire point of existence is to be BlackBerry's infrastructure for the security it boasts about. Licensing BIS server to 3rd party means that someone not under direct control of BlackBerry has access to data that BlackBerry wants to protect.

    You technically CAN buy a BES license for a single device, as long as you're ready to pay for it. You'll need to setup the server for it and pay for the license itself, the same way you can buy a 300-seats passenger jet plane to transport just you alone.

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.2102
    04-18-14 05:20 AM
  15. jevinzac's Avatar

    You technically CAN buy a BES license for a single device, as long as you're ready to pay for it. You'll need to setup the server for it and pay for the license itself, the same way you can buy a 300-seats passenger jet plane to transport just you alone.

    Z10 STL100-1/10.2.1.2102
    Any idea on how to do it and how much it would cost?

    Posted via Z30
    04-18-14 05:29 AM
  16. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
    I don't agree with that at all. This is exactly what providers typically want. This is Apple-typical brainlessness where the customer is proud to pay a lot for this with his money and his data. - I am the customer. I want my mobile to do what I want, not what they want. And I want to have some kind of control about what data is sent all the time.

    I think RIM made an unbelievable big mistake here. They could have placed themselves on the market apart of the very common idiocy. They could have said "We do it indeed smarter." They could let BIS survive for all even if the customer pays for this. - But they didn't, they said "We do it now like all the others." The abandonment of data compression and message push - two unique killer features! - is a great loss.

    BTW: They could also open their devices for 3rd party providers. Why not have a BIS from someone else? A local or private one?
    Apple-brainlessness?! Man you're making foolish accusations. Get a damp clue this was already in motion by AT&T, Rogers, and Verizon long before the Apple 3,GS debuted. This has nothing to do with apple but consumers wanting to use more data with more devices mainly because consumers consume!! Due to this infrastructure to provide more bandwidth such as LTE needs to reap back the costs of deployment - in the eyes of the provider.

    YOU want data you gotta pay for it plain and simple! You can wine kick and scream but that's the facts!! Get off your high horse thinking compression of data is coming back the way of BIS to BB10 it's not! Why should BlackBerry front the cost of your greedy consumption?? BIS was abandoned due to providers paying far too much for it on THEIR network! This is already confirmed by BlackBerry crackberry and providers. If rim tried to implement it on bb10 then providers would not have agreed to supporting it. Again another fact for you idiocy claims. Stop loving in the past!!


    BlackBerry Q10 ? & Full Metal CB10!
    04-19-14 08:20 AM
  17. muellerto's Avatar
    Apple-brainlessness?!
    Sure. Two words, one term.
    Get a damp clue this was already in motion by AT&T, Rogers, and Verizon long before the Apple 3,GS debuted.
    I live in Europe. Nobody knows AT&T here, also Rogers. Apple dominates the thinking of the people, even if they don't have Apple devices. Even my grand mother knows: devices have to be white, otherwise it's crap. Youngsters buy white earphones for their HTC or LG devices because they look like Apple and nobody knows they aren't.
    consumers wanting to use more data with more devices mainly because consumers consume!!
    It's never that easy. The interest has always at least two sides: the consumer AND the provider, probably even more sides. And you can hardly explain who was first, hen or egg. This is something you find very often on today's markets and the background mechanisms are complicated and obscure. Would you claim the consumer triggered development and production of these idiotic SUV cars every car company sells now in Europe? Is viewing Youtube videos on a 4 inch screen something the customer wanted for decades? Because this is an extraordinary viewing experience, or what? In many cases things are just done because it's possible, because someone told you you can do this now, don't think too much about it, just be cool and pay for it (Old Steve was an expert in this "science" ...)
    Due to this infrastructure to provide more bandwidth such as LTE needs to reap back the costs of deployment - in the eyes of the provider.
    But good old BB devices on BIS had more data capacities on less bandwidth. These expensive high data volumes now and the call for LTE and so on are also logical consequences of uncompressed data transmission.
    Get off your high horse thinking compression of data is coming back the way of BIS to BB10 it's not!
    Of course not, you're right. Who would pass on all the good money?
    BIS was abandoned due to providers paying far too much for it on THEIR network!
    You mean providers could not earn enough money compared to the costs because of the small data footprint of those devices. - This all is just about money. It's never about technical solutions, about being better, faster, more secure, more elaborate, more intelligent. - Why are these technical solutions still implemented in BES? Because they are good and useful!
    04-21-14 11:27 AM
  18. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    BIS was openly embraced by carriers back in the day because their networks could not support uncompressed data traffic (remember the first iPhone bogged down AT&T's network pretty badly). Now that they have built up their high-speed data capacity, they couldn't care less about it and would very much like to keep those $5/mo/customer they used to fork over to BlackBerry for BIS.
    04-21-14 11:37 AM
  19. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
    Sure. Two words, one term.
    I live in Europe. Nobody knows AT&T here, also Rogers. Apple dominates the thinking of the people, even if they don't have Apple devices. Even my grand mother knows: devices have to be white, otherwise it's crap. Youngsters buy white earphones for their HTC or LG devices because they look like Apple and nobody knows they aren't.
    You're in Europe ... look to most of the population in the big cities there, their histories (WWI, WWII, France/Roman conquerors, UK colonization all of those pasts and you'll get the appeal of the 'white product vs the black' I'm being VERY serious about this. Look to what is going on as well recently in soccer with nazism resurgence in Europe as well lately, it's all subliminal but I can assure you this has NOTHING solely to do with Apple!) on the common reality tip its about social class: Mobile Phones had this in 1989 with that big ol motorola, helped with Miami Vice popularizing them with the drug pimps - even before street pimps and major dealers had them that show alone had them aspiring to it. Think about the common jeans, or clothes brands the popular kids wore in grade school, high school, etc .... it's about social class, social power, social order and social importance with wealth. Remember what I said about WWI/II etc .. and piece together these ideals ... not much has changed. Should you or anyone dismiss this then you don't know history far too well and I point to you the lyrics of Bob Marley's "War" (note ... if you're smart enough to know WHO wrote those lyrics, the time and what occured when those lyrics, of not, where spoken and where specifically they where spoken then you KNOW where I'm coming from and have more sensitivities than I originally had thought/assumed; my fault there I know).

    Way too deep for some so I'm off of that for now.

    It's never that easy. The interest has always at least two sides: the consumer AND the provider, probably even more sides. And you can hardly explain who was first, hen or egg. This is something you find very often on today's markets and the background mechanisms are complicated and obscure. Would you claim the consumer triggered development and production of these idiotic SUV cars every car company sells now in Europe?
    Ummm. really?

    Providers came first ... there was no demand for cellular networks beyond infrastructure and military already had their own, those phones used different types of communication mediums/types/etc than even the earliest mobile phones. No, providers came first with the promise of serious $$ to last generations for those that built it ... they will come thought process, and boy oh boy did we ALL ever COME pun directly intended and we're STILL coming!! Buckets baby! Now that we've past EDGE data rates, since then there has been a continued exponential rise in consumer/business demand for bandwidth consumption! These are based on facts that ANYONE here can easily research alone just by the year over year quarterly results of ARPU from each of our local countries largest providers. Then expand to trends on which smartphone companies profited for how many years .... Ericsson, Nokia, now it's Samsung's turn. (also look at infrastructure profits as well by those companies to providers that actually built the networks).

    Is viewing Youtube videos on a 4 inch screen something the customer wanted for decades? Because this is an extraordinary viewing experience, or what? In many cases things are just done because it's possible, because someone told you you can do this now, don't think too much about it, just be cool and pay for it (Old Steve was an expert in this "science" ...)
    I'm VERY curious ... how old are you? If you're even 35, how many phones have you had the last 20yrs and which models ... seriously?
    I'll argue this with logic.

    my personal phone history:
    Ericsson T18z > T28 World > T36m x2 (2nd just after the Ericsson T68m/SE T68i debuted with 256 colour screen) > BB 7290 > SE K750i (same physical screen as T68i/m better colours oh and a USABLE Camera) > K790i > BB Pearl > BB8100 Pearl > BB8320 > Nokia 6620 (about 1.5yrs old at this time but amazing for NGage QD Game compatibility - server hosted free games; I was a young father then) > E71 (the Bold 9000 debuted very costly in comparison but didn't compare in as powerful applications as S60 2nd Edition did back then, S60 RULED the smartphone world) > tested the Motorola Q9h (BB's first major competition and it was hard for a short time for BB; very short) > Nokia N85 (hated it) > BB8820 (had a dedicated camera and VERY busy focusing on new I.T. beginnings as my son was getting bigger FAST as a toddler) > BB 9700 > iPhone 3GS > iPhone 4/4S (both) > BB 9900 (work provided) > iPhone 5 > BB Z10 x 5 ... yes I've bought 5 all full retail, I've owned and used 2 personally!!

    Ok ... if you've just skim read all those phones ... read them again ... look them up on gsmarena ... I said I was going to reply with logic ... so here it is since you've looked up those phones.

    Notice the trend here! From long lasting battery life phones (T36m full charge total talk time 6hrs! most phones could only do 2!), The T36m was also the FIRST publicly sold phone to have Bluetooth and a compatible BT headset (the HONKER) to Java or J2ME based phones ... T68, K750, K790, J2ME had some seriously powerful MIDP2 apps and the demand was growing ... there where cheap in comparison to the early S60 devices ... however Camera quality continued to impress beyond VGA stills. Then BB improved their Email to include inline-HTML in BBOS4 but it seriously paled in comparison to Nokia's S60 E71 ... wow that thing was a POWER house! I loved BB then but it was hurting! Another trait the E71 had was the HTML gecko based browser ... co developed by Apple/Google (2 specific employees 1 from each headed the standard HTML we use in Safari, smartphones, and desktop browsers SINCE the Nokia N80 debuted it!) Also the 6620 could play games ... some seriously FUN games not that SNAKE junk on the Nokia S40 devices, yuck! But still pixelated. The Nokia E71 SOARED in sales in N.America as an import and huge in Europe ... enough that Nokia purchased IntelliSync for management (MDM) of devices to compete with BlackBerry. Oh come on now you know about IntelliSync don't you? Of course you do ... BlackBerry was licensing their desktop sync technology on a yearly basis and still does so long as anyone downloads the BBOS Desktop Manager application - I'm sure I've mentioned it in my very EARLY posts from years back here as my original logon name "Jagga" or you can easily google search IntelliSync+BlackBerry+License Now ... BES prevailed and IntelliSync died as an MDM, Microsoft was sleeping from getting fat on the WinCE based (partially .Net2.0) Microsoft Windows PPC-PE/Smartphone devices (Q9h on the latter) and didn't progress - we know the result of that.

    The last phones it should seem VERY obvious the reason for that entire diatribe if you've had the patience and humor to last this long ....

    MEDIA! That is always the key! The progression of needs to comfort in life:
    HTML based email (not just inline), Camera, Video, Music (storage increases; offboard first, then on-board), Video calling, etc ... these ALL led to larger screens which was a very seemless progression over ALL the devices I've mentioned: going from 1" > 1.7" > 2.3"> 3" to 3.5" > 4" to almost 4.2" The majority of users regardless of global location as set in the 4 - 4.5" range ... has been for just over a year now ... but this will change very shortly!

    As the offerings of better media capability occured ... so did the demand and consumption of larger devices ... as for SUV's the need for hauling and moving your household or for long camping trips became the need for car-pooling for workers whom carried large bags individually to construction sites ... then soccer mom's car-pooling needed safe vehicles for children then arseholes with no balls needed compensation for where they lacked something and felt stronger than you or I using 6000lbs of rolling steel to scare you/me out of the way!

    You mean providers could not earn enough money compared to the costs because of the small data footprint of those devices. - This all is just about money. It's never about technical solutions, about being better, faster, more secure, more elaborate, more intelligent. - Why are these technical solutions still implemented in BES? Because they are good and useful!
    No I meant EXACTLY what I've been saying all along!
    Providers where NOT making money off their networks, especially slowing down their GGSN's which shared data for their customers and roaming customers - all APN's go through GGSN's for each carrier - and thus paying RIM money when they main goal is to MAKE money not spend it on aging technology which is not helping to sell phones like the competition was doing.

    Did Apple cause this very last point to occur ... hell yes ... iOS in 2.x to 4.x was a COMPLETE data hog, which meant users had to fork over a fortune monthly in overage charges ... providers LOVED it and well the yuppies/hipsters with rich parents or rich themselves HAD the money to burn .... and alas Apple was NO FOOL!

    In order to get to that user base you needed to be COOL, you needed to be where THEY WHERE AT, you had to APPEAL to them ... what better place to find HIPSTERS/Yuppies - even today on any given sunny warm day? .... wait for it ... wait for it .... STARBUCKS! Who remembers Apple Mac OS ads from the Apple iBook (White iBook days, then the Titanium PowerBook, and then MacBook Pro) being shown off in a patio with their users holding a Mac and also that famous Grande "WHITE" cup with the beige heatseak holder?! Hmmm I sure do.



    What I CANNOT STAND on these boards is this UTTER STUPID LACK of REASONING HATRED for anything Apple! Why because their popular now? Did anyone forget their failures?!!

    Apple does something that the competition and especially BlackBerry - amongst us the fans STILL DON'T GET!! A lesson they learned LONG & HARD from loosing the desktop computing dominance race to Microsoft ... it's NOT about WHO/WHAT OS is BETTER ... it's about WHO CAN USE IT ... HOW they USE IT, WHERE they CAN and CHOOSE to USE IT ... and that they CAN USE IT, EASILY!!


    "I don't think it can be more black and white"

    13:17 by Steven Jobs.


    Even Samsung caught onto the Starbucks/yuppie glue

    0:23 seconds in.


    The simple reason for the buying of Apple's white headphones?
    Because in an age where bluetooth was all the rage and yet had countless battery, quality, and connectivity, or reliability when connected problems ... these wired headphone where cheap in comparison and just worked.


    ^ you don't see anyone in this commercial using those headphones to show off ... odd I can probably count over 20 commericals of Apple showing their products being used in a real setting, BlackBerry .... I challenge you to show me 10, nah 5 commercials where they do this throughout!

    My entry to that very last paragraph:


    1:06 seconds!
    Check out Wolfram Alpha ... do a search on the following (start for USA, then expand to your country)
    What is the population of blind?
    What is the total population of hearing impaired?
    What is the total population of (what's the word for inability to walk?)
    What is the total population of Autism?


    1:26 ... I've not EVER seen a more meaningful reason to promote Video Calling than that moment right there (hearing impaired still communicating on an emotional, and intimate level ... where the F*CK is our BB commercial doing something as similar to this?! Goddamit! Arrgh this ticks me OFF so much because there is just SO much DAMN potential in BB and their pissing it all away!

    ^ this is what RESEARCH can bring you if you execute ... NONE, yes NONE of the competition even thought about these users that vehemently struggled to use even basic phones effectively for decades before Apple did ... they rule in this space. What happened to RIM? Do they not have an even coin-based employee membership - say before loosing some 10'000 employees the past 18mths?! QNX has a developer that is in a wheelchair ... why is there no specific implementation from QNX Car projects that targets this ... or that we've heard about?! The user base that could benefit from efforts in just this area alone is worth the effort! Now think of how QNX Cloud or even BB's recent acquisition helps in this regard can do?! I'll BET not one person in power at BB has thought this deep in terms of synergies!

    Drops the mic ... hip pumps the air ... I'm out cause I'm too sexy for this crap!
    04-21-14 07:02 PM
  20. leehardballer12's Avatar
    I thought one of the main reasons for dropping data compression for non BES users was because the process slows data speed and as far as consumers are concerned, speed is king.

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-14 10:12 PM
  21. greatwiseone's Avatar
    I really hope BlackBerry makes BES10 cloud available to consumers. I signed up for a trial now and really liking it. Hopefully the final pricing for the cloud bes solution would be somewhat affordable even for small companies.

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-14 11:41 PM
  22. muellerto's Avatar
    I'm VERY curious ... how old are you?
    This is interesting - I'm here for about a month and this is already the second time anyone asks how old I am in the assumption I'm young. Friend, when I was born two-motion-selectors (ever heard?) were still very common technology, then being replaced by modern coordinate switches, both triggered by tons of relays in big control enclosures. Do I need to tell more?
    my personal phone history:
    Ericsson T18z > T28 World > T36m x2 [...] > BB 7290 > SE K750i [...] > K790i > BB Pearl > BB8100 Pearl > BB8320 > Nokia 6620 [...] > E71 [...] > tested the Motorola Q9h [...] > Nokia N85 [...] > BB8820 [...] > BB 9700 > iPhone 3GS > iPhone 4/4S (both) > BB 9900 [...] > iPhone 5 > BB Z10 x 5 ... [...]!!
    OK, your ***** [1] is about 3m longer than mine. I must resign here for pure biological reasons, damned.

    [1] oh, asterisks ... I used the letters p, r, i, c and k instead
    04-22-14 01:14 AM
  23. Wayne_Enterprises's Avatar
    This one is turning into a comedy show. All of you forget BBOS/BIS services account for 80% of the BlackBerry marketshare.

    Posted via CB10 on 10.2.1.2228
    04-22-14 01:21 AM
  24. muellerto's Avatar
    This one is turning into a comedy show.
    Yeah. Is there a more infantile way to express somebody's indisputable competency than enumerating mobile phones without being asked? I studied digital switching technologies and telecommunications on a university - did I talk big about that?
    04-22-14 02:08 AM
  25. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
    Yeah. Is there a more infantile way to express somebody's indisputable competency than enumerating mobile phones without being asked? I studied digital switching technologies and telecommunications on a university - did I talk big about that?
    Yes you already did.

    Telecommunications have considerably advanced a LOT ore since your time I'm university; I may venture that knowledge at that time in relation to cellular networks may be obsolete.

    Regardless your lack of understanding with respect to phones was highlighted.

    BlackBerry Q10 ? & Full Metal CB10!
    04-29-14 04:44 PM
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