04-11-14 05:20 AM
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  1. localwingnut's Avatar
    Hard to sell product, even when it is superior, if the marketing and sales channels conspire against you. That's what we're complaining about...an unfair playing field.

    Posted via CB750
    kthhrrsn likes this.
    03-25-14 12:20 PM
  2. reeneebob's Avatar
    I think that the simple statement "It's EOL" needs clarification. All it means in your store is that the parent of your store does not wish to carry it.
    The connotation however (without clarification) to the customer is that the phone itself is EOL which of course it is not. It is absolutely BlackBerry flagship and most certainly it is not EOL in any way shape or form industry wide, just at your chain, which is sad for a Canadian company. But that's a different subject. I do not believe that your chain cannot purchase the phone, they just choose not to. The phone is not EOL.
    Lol...no you apparently also have no idea what EOL means in the merchandising of a carrier, because what you just posted as what EOL means is no where close.

    Moving on.

    To clarify, end of life is a standardized term. It's not carrier specific. It's not chain specific. It's INDUSTRY specific. It's widespread.

    Hence why what you posted is your opinion but not at all representative of how it works when I'm speaking with my merchandising group.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    21stNow likes this.
    03-25-14 12:38 PM
  3. A895's Avatar
    That's not what I said at all. Again, if my company sells a device I expect all my employees to be professional at selling and supporting that device.
    But they don't have it, so....

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    Tre Lawrence likes this.
    03-25-14 01:08 PM
  4. anon1727506's Avatar
    Hard to sell product, even when it is superior, if the marketing and sales channels conspire against you. That's what we're complaining about...an unfair playing field.

    Posted via CB750

    Problem is BlackBerry is playing T-Ball and everyone else is in the Majors.
    Kashan Osama likes this.
    03-25-14 01:16 PM
  5. SK122387's Avatar
    More than likely it was taken down because its not an product that is moving right now. Especially in my area. They could name my area iPhone and Galaxy town.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    I don't think you understand... every BlackBerry 10 device was on full display in that Verizon store. None had been taken down.
    03-25-14 01:24 PM
  6. A895's Avatar
    I don't think you understand... every BlackBerry 10 device was on full display in that Verizon store. None had been taken down.
    I'm talking about my areas Verizon. Don't know what you are taking about.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-25-14 01:25 PM
  7. bp3dots's Avatar
    About 3 weeks ago, I was in a mall and stopped by the Verizon kiosk. I had my Z10 with me, but I wanted to feel a Z30 and see if it was something I would like. I also have clients that are interested in a Z30.

    I asked a sales girl if they had the Z30 so I could take a look at it. She told me that it was End-Of-Life and not very good. My blood boiled and I just told her it was the best phone and walked away. They were very busy and I didn't have time to wait around just to set her straight.

    I'm tired of the sales people at the carriers spreading lies about BlackBerry. The Z30 is one of the highest rated phones on verizonwireless.com and Amazon.com also. I understand if maybe the stores don't carry a big inventory of them, but at least have a display model so people can look at one and order it if desired.

    In the meantime, I used the last upgrade I had available and got the Z30. Since then I've had 2 people buy it from Verizon and have a couple others on the edge.

    I complained to @VZWSupport and also lodged a complaint on the FCC web site.
    Soon after, I got an email from the Verizon Wireless Executive Relations. A few days ago I got a phone call from Amanda asking me for more information on my complaint.

    I explained to her what happened and how I have read many similar stories here on CrackBerry and online about sales people lying to customers.

    I said, it's okay if sales staff doesn't push it or says they don't prefer it, but to lie and say the company is out of business or something similar is wrong. Does it make any sense that one of the highest rated phones on verizonwireless.com isn't available in stores? Your own customers rate it the best, but people can't buy one.

    I explained that I had to buy one and show it to her customers because they couldn't see one in a local store.

    She actually called around and found one 30 miles from me in another mall and wrote me back. She also said that she would see what could be done to educate the non-verizon vendors.
    How do you know something isn't EOL when you're talking to a 3rd party retailer that you don't work for? It's actually very regular for them to EOL devices before Carrier locations, because they carry less stock and need to have available room for newer models. They also won't keep things that don't sell as well on hand.

    As for displays, manufacturers usually pay for their display space. Especially if they want good locations.

    Also, in you decsription of what the salesperson told you, you don't mention that she said the company was going out of business, however you seem to have said that she did in your complaints. Which is the case?

    If you're upset that her personal opionion was that the Z30 wasn't very good, there's not much help for it. I imagine if she had said it was the best thing since sliced bread, you'd be praising her.
    21stNow likes this.
    03-25-14 01:47 PM
  8. bp3dots's Avatar
    Lol...no you apparently also have no idea what EOL means in the merchandising of a carrier, because what you just posted as what EOL means is no where close.

    Moving on.

    To clarify, end of life is a standardized term. It's not carrier specific. It's not chain specific. It's INDUSTRY specific. It's widespread.

    Hence why what you posted is your opinion but not at all representative of how it works when I'm speaking with my merchandising group.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    I'll disagree. In every company I've worked for that was a third party, it was common to see EOL items that weren't EOL from the manufacturer, just with that particular retailer. And when I worked direct for a manufacturer, we had items that EOL'd with us first but was still listed as a current model at third party stores.

    The term itself is used universally, but can be used for smaller units as well.
    03-25-14 01:53 PM
  9. nrkbb's Avatar
    I think OP wanted a pat on the back for his actions.

    I personally think it was ridiculous for him to complain to the FCC. Firstly, because consumer protection falls under FTC (you would really need to stretch the definition of consumer protection to apply it to this situation. Second, the government has better things to worry about than a ridiculous complaint by a BlackBerry fan boy. Third, does he not have anything better to do.

    The current state of BlackBerry is Blackberry's own fault. It was late with BB10. It fumbled the launch and just about everything else it has done. No marketing. Put up for sale and failed at that. Laying off a large portion of its labor force. Selling off assets. The picture is not good at all.

    All that being said, I hope BlackBerry turns things around. But let's be realistic, it has to do something amazing to turn it's fortune around.
    I'm not sure if the enterprise strategy will pan out with the popularity of BYOD.

    Posted using my VZW BlackBerry Z30
    03-25-14 02:00 PM
  10. Francis Pavolko's Avatar
    Hey AT&T folks, guess what the major topic is on Verizon posts and TMobile. Same old, same old! Plain old facts are none of these companies have to enthusiastically sell and support any phone. That's not the business they are in and I question anyone being fired because of it. Phones are only a secondary sale so the inclination would be to suggest the one that is moving and move the customer in that direction as well. Hint,hint BBerry folks! If you were running one of these companies why in the world would you want your people taking their eyes off the primary target, selling service plans, to push a phone that they think is good but isn't selling. From what planet must we come to believe that a private company and their employees should be required to guarantee the success of another company. It just makes no sense and it won't happen, don't care how many of us get caught up in our shorts in these stores.

    Posted via CB 10 with Z30 on AT&T
    03-25-14 02:04 PM
  11. FishhPoohh's Avatar
    A T-Mobile online rep trying to help me. As you can see below she has no clue what a Z30 is





    Mildred C: If you have any other clarification, I'll be glad to further assist you.

    You: well i do have one question

    Mildred C: Sure please.

    You: I'm using an unlocked Blackberry Z30 . Do you know if Tmobile will be supporting the Z30 so us blackberry Z30 users can use the wi-fi calling feature

    Mildred C: I can surely go ahead and check that.

    Mildred C: Billy, upon checking we currently don't support Blackberry Z30, however as long as the phone is unlocked you can surely use it, under T-Mobile network.

    Mildred C: Billy may I ask if Z30, is almost the same as Z10?

    Mildred C: I'm so sorry because I'm not familiar with Z30.

    Mildred C: With Blackberry Z10, it has wifi calling.

    Mildred C: I won't be able to verify if Z30, has a wifi calling because we don't have the user manual on our end.

    You: The Z30 is Blackberry's newest flagship phone.

    Mildred C: Oh thanks for the information.

    Mildred C: In that case it should have a wifi calling because the Z10, has a wifi calling.

    You: Tmobile only supports the Z10 and the Q10.

    Mildred C: Yes that's correct.

    Mildred C: We currently don't have the Z30 yet.

    Mildred C: However thank you for providing me the information about it.

    Mildred C: I'll make sure, I will research on that.

    Mildred C: If you have further question, please let me know.

    You: thanks. alot of Z30 users would love to use wi-fi calling especially since we can buy them unlocked from blackberry now

    Mildred C: Oh that's good to know.

    Mildred C: Thank you for contacting T-Mobile live chat,again this is Mildred. We value and appreciate your business with us. Have a pleasant day ahead. Take care Billy.

    Mildred C: Have a warm and lovely weekend!
    playbook_swiper1 likes this.
    03-25-14 02:10 PM
  12. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    A T-Mobile online rep trying to help me. As you can see below she has no clue what a Z30 is
    I didn't think Tmo carried the Z30. If that is true, she isn't required to know about them.
    bp3dots and 21stNow like this.
    03-25-14 02:13 PM
  13. skiendhiu's Avatar
    you dont have to agree with it, and because you dont dosent mean it is not without merrit, check the numbers on where american education standards compare world wide, pretty pathetic really, but not hard to understand when a country spends trillions on wepons and millitary, have a look at whats spent on education in comparison, then tell me your not being "dumbed down"
    03-25-14 02:18 PM
  14. Francis Pavolko's Avatar
    you dont have to agree with it, and because you dont dosent mean it is not without merrit, check the numbers on where american education standards compare world wide, pretty pathetic really, but not hard to understand when a country spends trillions on wepons and millitary, have a look at whats spent on education in comparison, then tell me your not being "dumbed down"
    Pretty good off topic post that speaks for itself.

    Posted via CB 10 with Z30 on AT&T
    21stNow likes this.
    03-25-14 02:34 PM
  15. A895's Avatar
    you dont have to agree with it, and because you dont dosent mean it is not without merrit, check the numbers on where american education standards compare world wide, pretty pathetic really, but not hard to understand when a country spends trillions on wepons and millitary, have a look at whats spent on education in comparison, then tell me your not being "dumbed down"
    U.S. spent $138 Billion on education last year:
    http://febp.newamerica.net/backgroun...federal-budget

    Not a small number. Education is what you make if it. I graduated high school almost a year ago and graduated with honors and I have a scholarship to a college. I don't pay a thing for college. To generalize like you are doing is crazy.


    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-25-14 02:35 PM
  16. jhanks64's Avatar
    How do you know something isn't EOL when you're talking to a 3rd party retailer that you don't work for? It's actually very regular for them to EOL devices before Carrier locations, because they carry less stock and need to have available room for newer models. They also won't keep things that don't sell as well on hand.

    Also, in you description of what the salesperson told you, you don't mention that she said the company was going out of business, however you seem to have said that she did in your complaints. Which is the case?

    If you're upset that her personal opionion was that the Z30 wasn't very good, there's not much help for it. I imagine if she had said it was the best thing since sliced bread, you'd be praising her.
    Fair questions:
    I mixed up what the girl said with what I've seen reported here on Crackberry and have heard from others personally about BlackBerry going out of business. When I spoke to Amanda from Verizon, I told her about many different things in addition to what the sales girl said. It was my one opportunity to complain loudly.

    Like I wrote in another reply, I didn't have time to pursue the situation at that moment, had to leave. I took her commend about EOL to mean that BlackBerry was discontinuing the Z30, which I don't believe is true.

    The kiosk is not a Verizon owned outlet, so it's possible that they don't carry all of the available phones.

    Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to get her fired, only want Verizon to do better education and communications with their retail outlets. Of course, I want BlackBerry to do a better job of marketing too, but I don't know who to complain to about that.

    A while back, I had a complaint about the long voice mail prompts so that carriers would get you to use extra minutes every time and had found out about the form on the FCC website and remembered getting a call about it, so I knew that avenue might get some attention.

    Again, if the Z30 had bad ratings and wasn't well liked by Verizon Customers, I would feel different. But having the top rated phone NOT available at retail outlets, seems wrong to me.
    03-25-14 02:58 PM
  17. A895's Avatar
    Fair questions:
    I mixed up what the girl said with what I've seen reported here on Crackberry and have heard from others personally about BlackBerry going out of business. When I spoke to Amanda from Verizon, I told her about many different things in addition to what the sales girl said. It was my one opportunity to complain loudly.

    Like I wrote in another reply, I didn't have time to pursue the situation at that moment, had to leave. I took her commend about EOL to mean that BlackBerry was discontinuing the Z30, which I don't believe is true.

    The kiosk is not a Verizon owned outlet, so it's possible that they don't carry all of the available phones.

    Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to get her fired, only want Verizon to do better education and communications with their retail outlets. Of course, I want BlackBerry to do a better job of marketing too, but I don't know who to complain to about that.

    A while back, I had a complaint about the long voice mail prompts so that carriers would get you to use extra minutes every time and had found out about the form on the FCC website and remembered getting a call about it, so I knew that avenue might get some attention.

    Again, if the Z30 had bad ratings and wasn't well liked by Verizon Customers, I would feel different. But having the top rated phone NOT available at retail outlets, seems wrong to me.
    Since none of us run Verizon, there's nothing we can do. If you have one, be happy.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-25-14 03:03 PM
  18. canuckvoip's Avatar
    But they don't have it, so....

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    So, they suck.
    03-25-14 03:26 PM
  19. gng11's Avatar
    About 3 weeks ago, I was in a mall and stopped by the Verizon kiosk. I had my Z10 with me, but I wanted to feel a Z30 and see if it was something I would like. I also have clients that are interested in a Z30.

    I asked a sales girl if they had the Z30 so I could take a look at it. She told me that it was End-Of-Life and not very good. My blood boiled and I just told her it was the best phone and walked away. They were very busy and I didn't have time to wait around just to set her straight.

    I'm tired of the sales people at the carriers spreading lies about BlackBerry. The Z30 is one of the highest rated phones on verizonwireless.com and Amazon.com also. I understand if maybe the stores don't carry a big inventory of them, but at least have a display model so people can look at one and order it if desired.

    In the meantime, I used the last upgrade I had available and got the Z30. Since then I've had 2 people buy it from Verizon and have a couple others on the edge.

    I complained to @VZWSupport and also lodged a complaint on the FCC web site.
    Soon after, I got an email from the Verizon Wireless Executive Relations. A few days ago I got a phone call from Amanda asking me for more information on my complaint.

    I explained to her what happened and how I have read many similar stories here on CrackBerry and online about sales people lying to customers.

    I said, it's okay if sales staff doesn't push it or says they don't prefer it, but to lie and say the company is out of business or something similar is wrong. Does it make any sense that one of the highest rated phones on verizonwireless.com isn't available in stores? Your own customers rate it the best, but people can't buy one.

    I explained that I had to buy one and show it to her customers because they couldn't see one in a local store.

    She actually called around and found one 30 miles from me in another mall and wrote me back. She also said that she would see what could be done to educate the non-verizon vendors.
    About time! Thanks.
    03-25-14 03:31 PM
  20. A895's Avatar
    So, they suck.
    And? You have nothing significant to say?

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-25-14 03:35 PM
  21. SmellWhole's Avatar
    ... Let me settle your mind. OS4 was a mess. OS5 was a bigger mess. OS 6 was a hot mess. OS7 was a little better. How do I know that? I had a BB 8330, Storm 2 and a Bold. If you don't do battery pulls on them, they crash. OS7 was better but still crashesd eventually. If you had been around then, you'd know that. BB *FINALLY* dropped their old OS and went to QNX - too late. By then iPhone was eating heir lunch, and Android was coming up quickly ...
    I had OS 4.5 on my 8330m, and I'm using BlackBerry 6 on my 9650 right now! I had no problems with OS 4.5, and I have no problems with BlackBerry 6. Therefore, your findings don't "settle" anything, least of all my mind, lol, but nice try. I'm enjoying my BlackBerry 6 Bold every day. I don't need BB10 at this point, and I certainly don't need an iphone or android phone.
    03-25-14 03:42 PM
  22. A895's Avatar
    I had OS 4.5 on my 8330m, and I'm using BlackBerry 6 on my 9650 right now! I had no problems with OS 4.5, and I have no problems with BlackBerry 6. Therefore, your findings don't "settle" anything, least of all my mind, lol, but nice try. I'm enjoying my BlackBerry 6 Bold every day. I don't need BB10 at this point, and I certainly don't need an iphone or android phone.
    Keyword: "I"

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-25-14 03:45 PM
  23. SmellWhole's Avatar
    This thread is a trainwreck at this point. One, the rep didn't lie. Two, where did the OP say that the rep got fired? One of his/her comments said that he/she didn't get the name of the rep, so there could be no direct punishment.
    True, the op didn't say the rep got fired, but I'm proposing that BlackBerry enthusiasts make an effort to get reps who are unfriendly towards BlackBerry fired. I'll work towards that goal from now on whenever I encounter BlackBerry hate in a cell phone store. (I guess that means every time.) I think going federal on the haters is a great idea, too. No, BBRY doesn't have to love BlackBerry most as one adamant detractor suggested. The grass roots BlackBerry enthusiast can love BlackBerry just as much by volunteering his time to thwart the haters in ways that might not be cost effective for BlackBerry itself to do. From now on, I'll strongly propose, in writing, that a mobile phone carrier fire obvious BlackBerry hating clerks; I'll name names in strongly worded written accusations.
    03-25-14 03:54 PM
  24. SmellWhole's Avatar
    Keyword: "I"
    ... which the poster that I quoted used also. Your point is moot. Think things through a little better next time before you get clever.
    03-25-14 03:56 PM
  25. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    True, the op didn't say the rep got fired, but I'm proposing that BlackBerry enthusiasts make an effort to get reps who are unfriendly towards BlackBerry fired. I'll work towards that goal from now on whenever I encounter BlackBerry hate in a cell phone store. (I guess that means every time.) I think going federal on the haters is a great idea, too. No, BBRY doesn't have to love BlackBerry most as one adamant detractor suggested. The grass roots BlackBerry enthusiast can love BlackBerry just as much by volunteering his time to thwart the haters in ways that might not be cost effective for BlackBerry itself to do. From now on, I'll strongly propose, in writing, that a mobile phone carrier fire obvious BlackBerry hating clerks; I'll name names in strongly worded written accusations.
    LOL.

    I truly wish you the best. If you will, please videotape your encounters, and share them with the community.
    milo53 and bp3dots like this.
    03-25-14 03:57 PM
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