04-11-14 05:20 AM
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  1. Francis Pavolko's Avatar
    Let me try to take a second stab at this. How did it come to pass that only BlackBerry is being singled out for this unreasonable treatment across this entire globe? Sales have not materialized EVERY WHERE! To focus on minimum wage sales clerks is, I suspect, not even close to the root cause of our problems. To get back into the game may take more than BlackBerry is even capable of at this point. We certainly don't know and have minimal control of the outcome. We can just do our best to keep ourselves informed of what is going on at this point.

    Posted via CB 10 with Z30 on AT&T
    MikeLip likes this.
    03-24-14 10:20 AM
  2. sixpacker's Avatar
    Man, you must live on a real short fuse to get riled by something as trivial as this.
    Even blackberry couldn't see a benefit in marketing the z30.
    morales0416 and richardat like this.
    03-24-14 10:21 AM
  3. MikeLip's Avatar
    Let me try to take a second stab at this. How did it come to pass that only BlackBerry is being singled out for this unreasonable treatment across this entire globe? Sales have not materialized EVERY WHERE! To focus on minimum wage sales clerks is, I suspect, not even close to the root cause of our problems. To get back into the game may take more than BlackBerry is even capable of at this point. We certainly don't know and have minimal control of the outcome. We can just do our best to keep ourselves informed of what is going on at this point.

    Posted via CB 10 with Z30 on AT&T
    Bingo. The girl is a symptom, not a cause.
    morales0416 likes this.
    03-24-14 10:24 AM
  4. allisos's Avatar
    Actually, no.

    In this case it would be business liable. Making false statements that directly impact the revenue or sales of another business is not legal.

    Yes its true, bb has major issues, but if you are getting paid to do a job, you should be trained to know what you may, and may not say. She should have been taught not to actually state any "rumors" and stick to facts. "end of life" or "going out of business" with out a "my friend told me" or "rumor has it" is a false representation of the truth. (and subject to litigation if pursued)

    Bingo. The girl is a symptom, not a cause.
    03-24-14 10:30 AM
  5. Norg's Avatar
    I'm going to take the unpopular stance here. It's what I do. While lying from a saleperson is ethically wrong, there are many possible reasons for her to have done what she did;

    1) Kim Kardassian or Oprah said Blackberry was dying, and like so many fans of those people she just took them at their word.
    2) She doesn't know. Sales people never, ever like to say "I don't know" to a customer. They want you to think they know everything. So she said what came to mind to avoid appreaing ignorant, which is a very human thing to do.
    3) She is on commission. The Z30 is not the sexy phone of the moment. Yes, I have one and no you cannot pry it out of my hands even though I also own a Note 3 and Lumia Icon (which is an awesome phone). Both of those phones are far flashier than the Z30. Plus the iPhone is still extremely popular, to say the least. She is going to want to sell those since half the battle is already won for her by the companies making them and their ad campaigns. Why should she spend two hours educating buyers about BB when she could spend that time making commission? She's not an evangelist. I'm blaming BB for that one - they should be pushing their phone to the public. I'm not a particular fan of any platform, but the Z30 has advantages to people like me - professionals who need to communicate. No other phone does it better and there are a lot of us out there who maybe don't know how badly iOS and Android compare to BB10 for that. WP8 is better but not as good as BB10.

    So while you may feel better for having called out that poor girl, you are doing what my old boss called "Pissing up a rope." There are some fundamental problems with how BB is approaching the market, the biggest of which is they are doing so in a very halfhearted way, if at all.
    Very well said and agree entirely with all your points !!

    Posted via CB10 with my Super Snappy Z10 (STL100-3) 10.2.1.2228 on AT&T
    03-24-14 10:31 AM
  6. app_Developer's Avatar
    I can't believe that people would care about a multi-billion dollar corporation more than a girl trying to work her starter level job.

    I get the enthusiasm, but trying to directly get a young prrson fired to defend a company that doesn't even know who you are? It's hard for me to even understand that.

    These salespeople are not harboring some vindictive plot against BB. They are reacting to the general industry-wide view of BlackBerry. People in the industry think BB is dying.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    TGR1 and mikeo007 like this.
    03-24-14 10:34 AM
  7. MikeLip's Avatar
    Actually, no.

    In this case it would be business liable. Making false statements that directly impact the revenue or sales of another business is not legal.

    Yes its true, bb has major issues, but if you are getting paid to do a job, you should be trained to know what you may, and may not say. She should have been taught not to actually state any "rumors" and stick to facts. "end of life" or "going out of business" with out a "my friend told me" or "rumor has it" is a false representation of the truth. (and subject to litigation if pursued)
    That applies if she were BBs competition, say if she were a public figure of Samsung. She's not. She's wrong, but probably not maliciously so - more like mistaken. If there were intent to damage BB behind her statement I'd agree, although the damage one teenybopper kid can do to BB is far less than the damage they've done to themselves, by a factor of about a million.
    AYC2112 likes this.
    03-24-14 10:39 AM
  8. playbook_swiper1's Avatar
    Actually, no.

    In this case it would be business liable. Making false statements that directly impact the revenue or sales of another business is not legal.

    Yes its true, bb has major issues, but if you are getting paid to do a job, you should be trained to know what you may, and may not say. She should have been taught not to actually state any "rumors" and stick to facts. "end of life" or "going out of business" with out a "my friend told me" or "rumor has it" is a false representation of the truth. (and subject to litigation if pursued)
    In the words of the previous poster...BINGO!
    NtotheK likes this.
    03-24-14 10:44 AM
  9. playbook_swiper1's Avatar
    I can't believe that people would care about a multi-billion dollar corporation more than a girl trying to work her starter level job.

    I get the enthusiasm, but trying to directly get a young prrson fired to defend a company that doesn't even know who you are? It's hard for me to even understand that.

    These salespeople are not harboring some vindictive plot against BB. They are reacting to the general industry-wide view of BlackBerry. People in the industry think BB is dying.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Do your job or you get fired. Regardless if you work for a large multi-national corporation or a small mom-and-pop shop.

    What is it about some people that don't understand consequences? You do your job, you do it right, or you get fired. I don't care if it's a starter level, corporate CEO, Government employee, the Archdiocese. Do it right, or Buh-Bye.

    Pretty simple concept really.
    extisis and franky62 like this.
    03-24-14 10:47 AM
  10. Norg's Avatar
    If she ends up on her *** becasue she lied, then she failed to fulfill the duties required of her job and deserves to be out on her ***. You cannot defend an out and out lie as the customers fault. Defending the indefensible. Ridiculous.
    Let's be realistic here, most of these sales agents (NOT ALL) are young, have little sales training/experience and frankly just want make a quick buck. Frankly, can't say I blame them and I'd likely do some of the same. At least in my case I'd be thinking of moving up and onward eventually.

    It's actually quite difficult to compare this industry to something. No disrespect, but McDonalds is not a fair comparison. Firstly it's a very quick low cost one time sale and secondly there's no commitment required since its an eat now food product. No contract or long term buy-in required. To me, a better comparison would be to liking a music band and having to buy or not to buy their records (mp3 tracks) !! Again, this is my opinion, not trying to force it down anyone's throat.

    Posted via CB10 with my Super Snappy Z10 (STL100-3) 10.2.1.2228 on AT&T
    03-24-14 10:55 AM
  11. shai404's Avatar
    I stopped by a Verizon store yesterday to reactivate my Z30 on verizon and the sales rep was very fascinated( yes he had never seen a z30) with the phone. And he said I'm excited that you have a different phone and it feels nice and different...he went on to say that he's tired of seeing the same phones(Apple/Samsung)...bottom line he was impressed!

    Posted via Amazing Z30
    acovey likes this.
    03-24-14 10:56 AM
  12. A895's Avatar
    If she ends up on her *** becasue she lied, then she failed to fulfill the duties required of her job and deserves to be out on her ***. You cannot defend an out and out lie as the customers fault. Defending the indefensible. Ridiculous.
    Wow this is the most petty thing to even take to heart.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    mikeo007, WhiteBerry and richardat like this.
    03-24-14 11:09 AM
  13. A895's Avatar
    Only logic I'm can come up with is that maybe A895 is the girl that lost her job.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm actually a black male college student. I have gone to Verizon stores before and yes they can be uninformed, but they are there not only because they like phones but, because its a paying job.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-24-14 11:10 AM
  14. TrueKulcha's Avatar
    Let me try to take a second stab at this. How did it come to pass that only BlackBerry is being singled out for this unreasonable treatment across this entire globe? Sales have not materialized EVERY WHERE! To focus on minimum wage sales clerks is, I suspect, not even close to the root cause of our problems. To get back into the game may take more than BlackBerry is even capable of at this point. We certainly don't know and have minimal control of the outcome. We can just do our best to keep ourselves informed of what is going on at this point.

    Posted via CB 10 with Z30 on AT&T
    BlackBerry is not the only one being victimized by these untrained biased salespeople. Reason why this is being pointed out here is because this is a BlackBerry forum. I remember being at a local outlet and the salesman there was pushing iPhone over everything else. How many sales people so you think will be trying to sell a Windows phone unless they are using one. It all comes down to basic lack of knowledge. These people have no idea about BB10 or any other that they are not using and are too lazy to be bothered to even try to learn.

    Posted via CB10
    acovey, blusls and franky62 like this.
    03-24-14 11:10 AM
  15. A895's Avatar
    Not surprisingly, you failed to understand the derogatory remarks was made toward the customer, not the phone.
    How is it derogatory to the person?

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-24-14 11:14 AM
  16. TrueKulcha's Avatar
    I'm actually a black male college student. I have gone to Verizon stores before and yes they can be uninformed, but they are there not only because they like phones but, because its a paying job.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    You treat paying jobs with respect and do it to the best of your ability and knowledge. If you are not up to par, can't answer questions or give informative information then consult someone who knows.

    Posted via CB10
    03-24-14 11:25 AM
  17. A895's Avatar
    You treat paying jobs with respect and do it to the best of your ability and knowledge. If you are not up to par, can't answer questions or give informative information then consult someone who knows.

    Posted via CB10
    But this issue is so small and the OP bought a Z30 anyways, so what's the real issue here? Are you just mad BlackBerry has such a tarnished image that sales people can only regurgitate what general consumers think? A lot of people don't like BlackBerry and think they are going out of business, the OP just ran into one that was also selling phones.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-24-14 11:33 AM
  18. realtrevor's Avatar
    Do you guys know how much sales has BlackBerry lost because of this bad treatment by Shops and their reps?

    Posted via my Zee Zed 10
    TrueKulcha and extisis like this.
    03-24-14 11:34 AM
  19. shai404's Avatar
    Do you guys know how much sales has BlackBerry lost because of this bad treatment by Shops and their reps?

    Posted via my Zee Zed 10
    Exactly.......

    Posted via Amazing Z30
    03-24-14 11:36 AM
  20. Francis Pavolko's Avatar
    I can't believe that people would care about a multi-billion dollar corporation more than a girl trying to work her starter level job.

    I get the enthusiasm, but trying to directly get a young prrson fired to defend a company that doesn't even know who you are? It's hard for me to even understand that.

    These salespeople are not harboring some vindictive plot against BB. They are reacting to the general industry-wide view of BlackBerry. People in the industry think BB is dying.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Thank you! Trying to solve the problem by chasing the symptoms is a never ending circle that we seem most comfortable in.

    Posted via CB 10 with Z30 on AT&T
    03-24-14 11:36 AM
  21. TrueKulcha's Avatar

    However, the sales people are not claiming BlackBerry is no longer selling phones. They are claiming BlackBerry is going out of business. A clear distinction.
    Most of these sales people are just repeating what they may have heard and that is so wrong and I repeat, may have heard... The one reference I pointed to about the salesman pushing iPhone was when a customer walked in and asked about a program that BlackBerry had. He then spotted the new Sony phone and surely liked it and asked about the waterproof phone he heard about and if that was it. Salesman wanted to hear nothing about those queries and quickly claimed to be an iPhone "expert" and offered to help the customer with the purchase of an iPhone.
    My point is this. Sure BlackBerry were not being aggressive enough and many have been allowed to go running with these false claims but that does not excuse us as a society to be more vigilant in our own education about what's going on around us. I have seen sales people at Future Shop talk people out of purchasing a Windows computer in favor of a Mac.. not because Microsoft is going out of business but because of various other reasons.
    If you are a "weak" consumer in today's market you will only buy what they tell you to. It's your money and no one should dictate how you spend it because of their lack of knowledge and foolishness.


    Posted via CB10
    acovey likes this.
    03-24-14 11:39 AM
  22. A895's Avatar
    Most of these sales people are just repeating what they may have heard and that is so wrong and I repeat, may have heard... The one reference I pointed to about the salesman pushing iPhone was when a customer walked in and asked about a program that BlackBerry had. He then spotted the new Sony phone and surely liked it and asked about the waterproof phone he heard about and if that was it. Salesman wanted to hear nothing about those queries and quickly claimed to be an iPhone "expert" and offered to help the customer with the purchase of an iPhone.
    My point is this. Sure BlackBerry were not being aggressive enough and many have been allowed to go running with these false claims but that does not excuse us as a society to be more vigilant in our own education about what's going on around us. I have seen sales people at Future Shop talk people out of purchasing a Windows computer in favor of a Mac.. not because Microsoft is going out of business but because of various other reasons.
    If you are a "weak" consumer in today's market you will only buy what they tell you to. It's your money and no one should dictate how you spend it because of their lack of knowledge and foolishness.


    Posted via CB10
    As a consumer you have to be informed yourself and not blame everything on the sales person. Any big purchase such as a phone, tablet, car, or anything that goes for a couple hundred dollars or more you should be researching it.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    MikeLip likes this.
    03-24-14 12:08 PM
  23. MikeLip's Avatar
    As a consumer you have to be informed yourself and not blame everything on the sales person. Any big purchase such as a phone, tablet, car, or anything that goes for a couple hundred dollars or more you should be researching it.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    You are of course correct. And while I'm not really excusing the sales girl, I am definitely not advocating the loss of her job over the fact that she is ignorant of a device her store may not even stock. At least whether they stocked it or not is not clear in the original story. Clearly the interest in selling BB isn't there, so why should she be singled out? Often it seems like BLACKBERRY isn't all that interested in selling Blackberry. And the OP seemed rather excited by the idea of putting some kid out of work for a principle, an attitude I find repellant. Almost as if the OP were personally attacked. The sense I get is that of an Apple disciple defending the superiority of the iPhone to the death. I never got this attitude that your piece of glass and plastic was superior to the other guys and deserves such staunch, to the death loyalty, since I'm pretty sure Blackberry has never heard of you. And I doubt they'd care if they did. Certainly the PHONE doesn't care. It's just, you know, an inanimate object. I thought BB people were a cut above that sort of thing, but sorry, my mistake.

    So yeah, is the Z30 a good phone? Of course it is. I like mine a lot and prefer it to any other current platform. It's well thought out and engineered. Is it deserving of a rabid fanbase? No. Nothing is.
    21stNow and AYC2112 like this.
    03-24-14 12:36 PM
  24. sixpacker's Avatar
    I actually believe the sales people are being told by management BlackBerry is going out of business and they should push customers away from BB. I believe this is a concerted effort by US carriers to get rid of a device they don't want to continue supporting. If they had the guts they would just come out and say it. But they saw what happened when T-Mobile let the conspiracy slip.

    If that is true, the sales person has the ability to find out on their own if it is true or, they can be lazy and accept that as fact. Being the type of job it is, I don't expect the average counter jockey to bother researching it. That's why you confront the manager and make it clear you don't appreciate being lied to.
    And I think your speculation is complete garbage. Carriers will sell anything that makes them money. Bb10 devices aren't. Hell, this is why blackberry won't market the current range themselves. To be fair though I don't think BlackBerry share in the conspiracy delusion, that's reserved for obsessive fanboys..
    03-24-14 12:51 PM
  25. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Do you guys know how much sales has BlackBerry lost because of this bad treatment by Shops and their reps?
    If this is true, then BBRY is to blame for not dealing with this issue. But hey, it has UNPAID enthusiasts taking the fight to the streets, so it probably doesn't need to.
    03-24-14 12:59 PM
314 1234 ...

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