1. MikeLip's Avatar
    I am envious your EXTREMELY small bubble.

    I'm American and can confirm that :
    a) most are highly susceptible to suggestion
    b) most grew up watching 6 to 7 hours of tv daily
    c) most don't have the ability to really think for themselves
    d) "they are brain damaged" ---not "damaged" but absolutely most are "Delusional"
    The only thing dumber than insisting my phone is better than yours is generalizing about citizens of a country. In particular one like the US where, no doubt, basically everyone has relatives or countrymen living.
    21stNow likes this.
    03-25-14 06:25 AM
  2. reeneebob's Avatar
    Again..."end of life" means the status of inventory replensishment. And I hate to break it to people but the BB10 devices were EOLd quite some time ago along with other handsets in the market for over a year or handsets that weren't selling. My two z30 devices that were ordered back were the original 2 we were shipped. People went for the cheaper Z10. As is often the case I'm only getting people asking for the Z30 because now they are damn near impossible to find.

    Because they are EOL. Not that BB itself is EOL. The device is EOL on inventory lists.

    People need to get some facts before getting the pitchforks out and start crusading for people to lose jobs, because I would hope before filing complaints with government agencies (which I still shake my head over) the complainant would make sure they knew what the hell they were fighting about.

    If that girl gets reprimanded in any way because the OP doesn't know what EOL means in a wireless industry, well...


    Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD
    21stNow likes this.
    03-25-14 07:17 AM
  3. Stwutter's Avatar
    I had the Bold 9900 up until Jan '13, when my upgrade with EE UK was due. I wandered into my local store, and asked what my upgrade options were for the, what was then, 'brand-new' Z10. The sales guy kind of gave me a wry grin, and said the upgrade was free if I took another 24 month contract, but 'did I realise' that I could also have the iPhone 4S, or the latest HTC instead? I said I did, but was keen to stay on Blackberry. I think, in the next 5 minute or so converse we had, he mentioned the word 'app.' at least 15 times. Also, at the time, the BB10 platform was effectively unknown, and there were no sales figures (or lack of them), and fewer of the 'Blackberry is dead' rumours that have subsequently ensued.

    It shows that, even before the whole Blackberry wont' last jibber-jabber, the sales focus in shops was leaning far away from Blackberry (Blackberry are as much to blame for this as anyone).

    The best bit was asking for a demo of the Z10 before I bought it, and the guy admitting that he'd never turned one on.

    Since then I've moved to the Z30 - but in a private sale. EE don't stock it. Surprise...
    southlander likes this.
    03-25-14 07:29 AM
  4. kthhrrsn's Avatar
    I'm going to take the unpopular stance here. It's what I do. While lying from a saleperson is ethically wrong, there are many possible reasons for her to have done what she did;

    1) Kim Kardassian or Oprah said Blackberry was dying, and like so many fans of those people she just took them at their word.
    2) She doesn't know. Sales people never, ever like to say "I don't know" to a customer. They want you to think they know everything. So she said what came to mind to avoid appreaing ignorant, which is a very human thing to do.
    3) She is on commission. The Z30 is not the sexy phone of the moment. Yes, I have one and no you cannot pry it out of my hands even though I also own a Note 3 and Lumia Icon (which is an awesome phone). Both of those phones are far flashier than the Z30. Plus the iPhone is still extremely popular, to say the least. She is going to want to sell those since half the battle is already won for her by the companies making them and their ad campaigns. Why should she spend two hours educating buyers about BB when she could spend that time making commission? She's not an evangelist. I'm blaming BB for that one - they should be pushing their phone to the public. I'm not a particular fan of any platform, but the Z30 has advantages to people like me - professionals who need to communicate. No other phone does it better and there are a lot of us out there who maybe don't know how badly iOS and Android compare to BB10 for that. WP8 is better but not as good as BB10.

    So while you may feel better for having called out that poor girl, you are doing what my old boss called "Pissing up a rope." There are some fundamental problems with how BB is approaching the market, the biggest of which is they are doing so in a very halfhearted way, if at all.
    I understand where you're coming from, but the OP didn't ask questions about the phone. He simply asked if there was one on hand that he could look at. if he's specifically asking about a certain device, clearly he's interested in it & has probably done some research.

    I've worked in sales & a good sales person would pick up on where your interests lie and encourage the purchase, no matter their personal opinion.

    Would this be a good strategy for a car dealer? If someone wants to test drive a minivan, do they try to push them to a 2 seater sports car because they get higher commission, it's "sexier", or because they know more about it? That sales person wouldn't sell very much of anything. The good sales person would show that consumer all of the advantages that the minivan has to offer and make it urgent that the interested consumer purchases it now!

    Funny thing is that the informed consumer doesn't need to be sold. They've done the research ( there's tons of available info) and they know what they want. The sales rep could have simply fulfilled the order or said, "I'm sorry, but we are currently out of stock. I could show you something similar, if you'd like.". The reactions received by many sales reps when consumers show interest in BlackBerry devices is disrespectful, ridiculing, and obnoxious. Too many of us have experienced it, so I'm over any possible devil's advocate defenses of their behavior.


    Posted via CB10 from my Z30.
    Last edited by kthhrrsn; 03-25-14 at 10:38 AM.
    keepthetorch and AYC2112 like this.
    03-25-14 08:41 AM
  5. keepthetorch's Avatar
    I understand where you're coming from, but the OP didn't ask questions able the phone. He simply asked if there was one on hand that he could look at. if he's specifically asking about a certain device, clearly he's interested in it & has probably done some research.

    I've worked in sales & a good sales person would pick up on where your interests lie and encourage the purchase, no matter their personal opinion.

    Would this be a good strategy for a car dealer? If someone wants to test drive a minivan, do they try to push them to a 2 seater sports car because they get higher commission, it's "sexier", or because they know more about it? That sales person wouldn't sell very much of anything. The good sales person would show that consumer all of the advantages that the minivan has to offer and make it urgent that the interested consumer purchases it now!

    Funny thing is that the informed consumer doesn't need to be sold. They've done the research ( there's tons of available info) and they know what they want. The sales rep could have simply fulfilled the order or said, "I'm sorry, but we are currently out of stock. I could show you something similar, if you'd like.". The reactions received by many sales reps when consumers show interest in BlackBerry devices is disrespectful, ridiculing, and obnoxious. Too many of us have experienced it, so I'm over any possible devil's advocate defenses of their behavior.


    Posted via CB10 from my Z30.
    A very logical and thoughtful post. It is too bad that you will get flamed for it. Why is it so hard to be consumers and can't think for ourselves.
    kthhrrsn likes this.
    03-25-14 08:57 AM
  6. keepthetorch's Avatar
    There is no doubt Crackberry forums are the most popular. People from all walks of phone come here in droves. After all, you "have the right to post anywhere". I come away with a different perspective. 75% or so people posting on this thread (and many others) are non-BB users. That is fine. But maybe, just maybe, you come here because you all really do like BB and want them to succeed but in a different sort of way. Since deep down you like us so much, put your posting where your wallets are and go out and buy a BB10 device. Help Chen and the rest of us terrible "enthusiasts." Then after you are done taking "swipes" at us - no, on your new BB, go on over to your home forum and tell them to give it a try too. Hey, it just might work.

    I think I just heard a chorus of lighters being clicked at the same time.
    03-25-14 09:12 AM
  7. A895's Avatar
    There is no doubt Crackberry forums are the most popular. People from all walks of phone come here in droves. After all, you "have the right to post anywhere". I come away with a different perspective. 75% or so people posting on this thread (and many others) are non-BB users. That is fine. But maybe, just maybe, you come here because you all really do like BB and want them to succeed but in a different sort of way. Since deep down you like us so much, put your posting where your wallets are and go out and buy a BB10 device. Help Chen and the rest of us terrible "enthusiasts." Then after you are done taking "swipes" at us - no, on your new BB, go on over to your home forum and tell them to give it a try too. Hey, it just might work.

    I think I just heard a chorus of lighters being clicked at the same time.
    They have to have their main device the Z30 available everywhere for anyone to do that.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-25-14 09:29 AM
  8. Morty2264's Avatar
    I feel like I need to add something else here. Even if I think that some sales reps are rude, I would never want them to be fired. That's kind of cruel. However, if a sales rep did something unacceptable or rude (i.e. Insulting a customer, not knowing basic information, etc.); then I think the manager should be alerted; NOT to fire them, but to help them.

    The only time when I got so furious with a sales employee that I actually saw red was at Staples; when a girl at the cash began to look through my purse because the detectors went off AS I WAS WALKING INTO the store (yes, purses have little metal hearts and charms on them - apparently that means I'm a thief...). That was the time I called the manager and hoped he spoke to her, because you CAN'T look through people's things without their consent (especially since I was already at the cash, paying for stuff; obviously not stealing anything; and she pulled my purse over to her and looked inside). But that was the only time I actually really complained.

    But on a sales rep level? If she meant "EOL" shelf-wise for specific product lines, come on. (I didn't know that was what it meant earlier, so I stand corrected. But even before, I didn't want her to get fired. That's mean, especially with the economy so bad as it is.)

    Posted via CB10
    TGR1 likes this.
    03-25-14 09:36 AM
  9. keepthetorch's Avatar
    They have to have their main device the Z30 available everywhere for anyone to do that.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    Hands-on and kicking the tires - now that is a novel idea. I will email Chen and see if he can send out some z30 devices. Will talk to the mods so they can setup mail-to lists for anyone wanting to try one. Thank you for your support
    03-25-14 09:37 AM
  10. playbook_swiper1's Avatar
    There have been 2 separate issues throughout this thread that have been blended by most into one.

    One: BBRY market share - which is BBRY's fault and has nothing to do with the salespeople, regardless of whether they try to steer customers away or not.

    Two: A Sales Rep not performing their duties, and the question of whether this is an actionaable (e.g. fireable) offence.

    Now, BBRY market share - topic has been beat to death. BBRY dropped the ball, BBRY did not compete when they should, BBRY sucks at advertising, BBRY sucks at client communications, BBRY over promises and underperforms, BBRY sucks at Carrier relations. All valid, all good, all reasons BBRY is where it is today.

    Next - salesperson. OP stated they lied abour EOL status. OP did not "call for" salesperson to be fired, they called for some accountability re: their actions.

    Others, myself included, made a general comment about how if someone is not performing their job to the requirements they should be tossed on their ***.

    Defences to this include

    (1) It's not Salespersons fault BBRY is where it is.
    Some argue this is the case and there is a concerted effort by salespeople to undermine BBRY. Others defend that this is a result of BBRY market position. It is a blend of both, but it is BBRY's problem to fix.

    (2) Sales-people should not be fired. It's either "mean", or "sub-standard service is acceptable", or "re-training required".
    Mean? Mean does not come into play when managing a business. Perform, or GTFO.
    Sub standard service is acceptable? Sure hope you don;t own your own business. If so, enjoy the unemployment lines yourself.
    Re-training required? Sure, this is an acceptable avenue. Re-train. If they still suck, fire them.

    Let's keep the issues what they are people, separate.
    03-25-14 10:10 AM
  11. SK122387's Avatar
    If you can find one. I have seen these disappear from shelves too. They definitely don't have it in the VZW me.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    I was talking about that specific store in my story... that day...where the every BlackBerry 10 model was on display and functioning.

    I'm sure they had Z10s in stock, as I highly doubt it was sold out.

    Posted via CB10
    03-25-14 10:23 AM
  12. jpvose's Avatar
    ..........
    Last edited by jpvose; 03-25-14 at 10:33 AM. Reason: misspeling
    03-25-14 10:29 AM
  13. jpvose's Avatar
    The only thing dumber than insisting my phone is better than yours is generalizing about citizens of a country. In particular one like the US where, no doubt, basically everyone has relatives or countrymen living.
    Not my "generalizations"...just my 2 cents of a previous post
    03-25-14 10:32 AM
  14. A895's Avatar
    I was talking about that specific store in my story... that day...where the every BlackBerry 10 model was on display and functioning.

    I'm sure they had Z10s in stock, as I highly doubt it was sold out.

    Posted via CB10
    More than likely it was taken down because its not an product that is moving right now. Especially in my area. They could name my area iPhone and Galaxy town.

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-25-14 10:58 AM
  15. canuckvoip's Avatar
    Depends on how you look at it. The salesperson told me that Treo was going out of business, and that no other smartphone had built-in wi-fi. I know my stuff, got the Treo I wanted, but explored the 8320 and got that in the next six months. No sweat.

    There is this troubling theory in BB land that consumers (outside those of us "smart enough" to own BB10) are stupid... that salespeople can force people to own things they do not want to own for long periods of time. Okay.

    But unless BBRY steps up and fixes its own image, y'all can go around firing as many untrained kiosk staffers as you want. Won't change a thing. On a cerebral level, I get firing people. It's cut and dry, to a degree (if it really occurred). But it is not fixing the problem.

    Do y'all really think the phone companies care more about selling BB10 devices than the saleslady does/did? We complain day in and day out that BBRY doesn't market its products, and we blame salespeople?

    Had an Android-using salesperson totally annihilate the iPad at a Walmart smart-device display a while back. Was freakin' hilarious. Looking at Apple's balance sheet, this salesperson was relatively inconsequential.

    C'mon...
    C'mon what?
    You and I have completely and utterly different views on how to run a company.
    I would have all of my staff (hundreds or thousands) trained to be professional and be responsible for that which the customer hears, sees, and buys. I would take ultimate responsibility for the way my staff acts and behaves.
    You on the other hand appear to be just fine with pointing the finger at a completely different 3rd party and laying the blame squarely at them for the p1ss poor, unruly, agitating attitude of your employees.
    C'mon...
    kthhrrsn likes this.
    03-25-14 11:32 AM
  16. A895's Avatar
    C'mon what?
    You and I have completely and utterly different views on how to run a company.
    I would have all of my staff (hundreds or thousands) trained to be professional and be responsible for that which the customer hears, sees, and buys. I would take ultimate responsibility for the way my staff acts and behaves.
    You on the other hand appear to be just fine with pointing the finger at a completely different 3rd party and laying the blame squarely at them for the p1ss poor, unruly, agitating attitude of your employees.
    C'mon...
    So those anecdotal stories about sales reps is the main reason why BlackBerry isn't doing well? C'mon...

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    03-25-14 11:49 AM
  17. canuckvoip's Avatar
    Again..."end of life" means the status of inventory replensishment. And I hate to break it to people but the BB10 devices were EOLd quite some time ago along with other handsets in the market for over a year or handsets that weren't selling. My two z30 devices that were ordered back were the original 2 we were shipped. People went for the cheaper Z10. As is often the case I'm only getting people asking for the Z30 because now they are damn near impossible to find.

    Because they are EOL. Not that BB itself is EOL. The device is EOL on inventory lists.

    People need to get some facts before getting the pitchforks out and start crusading for people to lose jobs, because I would hope before filing complaints with government agencies (which I still shake my head over) the complainant would make sure they knew what the hell they were fighting about.

    If that girl gets reprimanded in any way because the OP doesn't know what EOL means in a wireless industry, well...


    Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD
    I think that the simple statement "It's EOL" needs clarification. All it means in your store is that the parent of your store does not wish to carry it.
    The connotation however (without clarification) to the customer is that the phone itself is EOL which of course it is not. It is absolutely BlackBerry flagship and most certainly it is not EOL in any way shape or form industry wide, just at your chain, which is sad for a Canadian company. But that's a different subject. I do not believe that your chain cannot purchase the phone, they just choose not to. The phone is not EOL.
    03-25-14 11:53 AM
  18. rocker_man1's Avatar
    Good on you!

    Mikescraftbeer.com - C00012735/ Mike Garson Photography - C00471EA8
    03-25-14 11:56 AM
  19. canuckvoip's Avatar
    So those anecdotal stories about sales reps is the main reason why BlackBerry isn't doing well? C'mon...

    Sent from my XT1060 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    That's not what I said at all. Again, if my company sells a device I expect all my employees to be professional at selling and supporting that device.
    03-25-14 12:00 PM
  20. boyo66's Avatar
    The same thing happening around me as soon as you ask about BlackBerry they say the company is in trouble and we're not going to stock BlackBerry phones because they have have so many problems with them blah blah blah. I've had my Z10 since its launch and haven't had any issues with it. Just wish I'd got one sooner. My dad's got one and he loves it. Long live BlackBerry.

    Via BlackBerry Z10 Z10STL100-2/10.2.1.1925
    canuckvoip likes this.
    03-25-14 12:04 PM
  21. localwingnut's Avatar
    Absolutely a conspiracy by 'Murican companies to push 'Murican junk on mindless 'Muricans. What can you do.

    Posted via CB750
    03-25-14 12:10 PM
  22. axeman1000's Avatar
    As much people like to go on and on about the biases of these companies, the fact still remains....many people just aren't interested in BB10 for whatever reason that may be. Most consumers don't frequent tech forms or blogs. They see what other family and friends have and if the person really likes their phone, then they will try it too. Word of mouth has always been the way many people purchase various services and items. Within my circle of friends, family, and colleagues, none of them are even aware that BlackBerry has a completely new OS or devices, and many of them are old BlackBerry users.

    The fact is that waiting a year to put out BB10, which was half baked when it came out, hurt BlackBerry significantly. In the mobile industry you just can't not put out something for a whole year....you will be easily forgotten. Additionally, just months ago there was talk about BlackBerry being sold, well people and companies have the right to be concerned. Also, when it has been reiterated several times by BlackBerry CEO that they will be focusing on the enterprise market, well what are people supposed to think exactly.

    Blackberry marketing has been nearly nonexistent, another reason why people don't know they are still around. People aren't sheep because they choose something that their friends or family like to use. It is BlackBerry job to improve their image and market their products. Why haven't we seen any new advertisements about the latest update and the great features it brings. The update literally makes the device feel like a new phone!

    I am rooting for BlackBerry and hope that they can turn it around. They have a huge mountain to climb, because their competition continues to push and create new things. I want them around because consumers need options and choices.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    I don't care about apple but stores stick it down my throat, if the "market" doesn't care about blackberry it should still have its day in the sun to be shoved down our throats too. Can't be bias all ways.

    Hate solves nothing, Respect gains everything!
    03-25-14 12:14 PM
  23. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    C'mon what?
    You and I have completely and utterly different views on how to run a company.
    I would have all of my staff (hundreds or thousands) trained to be professional and be responsible for that which the customer hears, sees, and buys. I would take ultimate responsibility for the way my staff acts and behaves.
    You on the other hand appear to be just fine with pointing the finger at a completely different 3rd party and laying the blame squarely at them for the p1ss poor, unruly, agitating attitude of your employees.
    C'mon...
    No, we have the same views. We just differ on the company that needs the training.

    Look, I get it. For some folks, BBRY's biggest problem is a sales girl that uses (correctly, as it is beginning to look) the term "EOL."

    I simply disagree. If salespeople are truly the biggest issue, then it is an easy fix IMHO, and BBRY should be fixing it.

    The entity losing here is BBRY.
    Last edited by Tre Lawrence; 03-25-14 at 04:41 PM.
    Kashan Osama likes this.
    03-25-14 12:16 PM
  24. TGR1's Avatar
    Yea, from one side of your mouth it's "the market will punish" the under-performer or poor performer, but from the other side of your mouth it's "the kid is just trying to make a quick buck." Why should the incompetent and lying sales clerk be shown mercy while BlackBerry should be punished for its purported failings?
    Why are so many assuming the sales clerk was knowingly lying vs misinformed/poorly trained? And calling for firing without proof? How many of you have been unemployed in this economy?
    03-25-14 12:18 PM
  25. axeman1000's Avatar
    I feel like I need to add something else here. Even if I think that some sales reps are rude, I would never want them to be fired. That's kind of cruel. However, if a sales rep did something unacceptable or rude (i.e. Insulting a customer, not knowing basic information, etc.); then I think the manager should be alerted; NOT to fire them, but to help them.

    The only time when I got so furious with a sales employee that I actually saw red was at Staples; when a girl at the cash began to look through my purse because the detectors went off AS I WAS WALKING INTO the store (yes, purses have little metal hearts and charms on them - apparently that means I'm a thief...). That was the time I called the manager and hoped he spoke to her, because you CAN'T look through people's things without their consent (especially since I was already at the cash, paying for stuff; obviously not stealing anything; and she pulled my purse over to her and looked inside). But that was the only time I actually really complained.

    But on a sales rep level? If she meant "EOL" shelf-wise for specific product lines, come on. (I didn't know that was what it meant earlier, so I stand corrected. But even before, I didn't want her to get fired. That's mean, especially with the economy so bad as it is.)

    Posted via CB10
    Saying a company is dead and why would you want that is one less sale to blackberry which could lead to one less worker. How is that any different? So it's ok to slag a company so they have to fire workers to stay afloat?? No its not.

    Hate solves nothing, Respect gains everything!
    canuckvoip likes this.
    03-25-14 12:19 PM
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