[Tre Lawrence]

The "company" is just people "in Waterloo." Whatever you perceive to be the problem (e.g. "company," "image," whatever) your adamant defense of the lying sale clerk is peculiar. You seem to think that her lying and incompetence should be rewarded with a steady job.

Yes, lying sales clerks should be taught that there are negative consequences for lying and they should not be rewarded with some kind of tenure at their jobs.

Adamant defense? Oh. LOL. Feel free to quote the adamant defenses. I'll wait. You're so angry that you lost the entire point, which is that the frontend people are inconsequential in the grand scheme of BBRY's performance.

But, hey, BBRY wins. We got the the salelady fired. All problems are over.

[canuckvoip]

I won't disagree. It is insane to think the salesperson is the problem though. It goes far beyond the frontline person. It is an image problem.

Bottom line, with a company in such a state of flux, it makes sense for salespeople to sell problem free devices that are mostly promised to be around. When I was looking to buy a new Treo way back in the day, a salesperson pointed out the 8320 to me. I ended up being quite happy.

I get as "het up" as the next guy, but calling a federal agency on a "lying" telecom employee would not have occurred to me. It does open up a world of opportunities for me, and going forward, I dare any moderator to point something out to me...

If the frontline person has been trained properly and/or retained and continues to lie, it is absolutely that persons problem and they should be fired. If that persons manager can't be bothered, it's their problem and the same thing applies. Never mind the FCC thing.
Image doesn't enter into it when you have a job to do... PROPERLY.
Were you lied to when you went to buy a Treo?

[SmellWhole]

... You're so angry that you lost the entire point, which is that the frontend people are inconsequential in the grand scheme of BBRY's performance ...

I didn't "lose" that tired "point" of yours -- nice try -- I disagree with it.

[MikeLip]

You couldn't wait to set the record straight on that -- hasn't happened "in a long time."

Nice job cherrypicking a line and making it look like it supports you, and cutting out the remainder which does not.

[canuckvoip]

Adamant defense? Oh. LOL. Feel free to quote the adamant defenses. I'll wait. You're so angry that you lost the entire point, which is that the frontend people are inconsequential in the grand scheme of BBRY's performance.

But, hey, BBRY wins. We got the the salelady fired. All problems are over.

How can you call the frontline employee who is lying to a customer inconsequential? It is directly and largely part of the problem.
Don't you see that if the bad attitude is allowed by fellow employees and managers that it is the tail wagging the dog? You cannot allow the employees to run the company.
If you owned or ran that store, would you allow that behaviour?

[SmellWhole]

Nice job cherrypicking a line and making it look like it supports you, and cutting out the remainder which does not.

Guy, this post of yours doesn't make you any less transparent. The part I originally quoted was the first thing you said; it was prominent. The rest of the drivel about how glorious the iphone is ("industrial artwork," lol) and how BlackBerry's os was a mess disgusted me too much to bother quoting -- that's including the part about how it's okay to lie about the phones your selling if no one else, including the maker, is making effort to popularize them.

[MikeLip]

Guy, this post of yours doesn't make you any less transparent. The part I originally quoted was the first thing you said; it was prominent. The rest of the drivel about how glorious the iphone is ("industrial artwork," lol) and how BlackBerry's os was a mess disgusted me too much to bother quoting -- that's including the part about how it's okay to lie about the phones your selling if no one else, including the maker, is making effort to popularize them.

Ah, and you think I'm sitting here waiting for my check from Apple, right? Let me settle your mind. OS4 was a mess. OS5 was a bigger mess. OS 6 was a hot mess. OS7 was a little better. How do I know that? I had a BB 8330, Storm 2 and a Bold. If you don't do battery pulls on them, they crash. OS7 was better but still crashesd eventually. If you had been around then, you'd know that. BB *FINALLY* dropped their old OS and went to QNX - too late. By then iPhone was eating heir lunch, and Android was coming up quickly. BB10 when first released had all kinds of problems, but that was expected and they finally made it usable. But now their marketshare in the US is lagging even WP8. Why is that? Because some skippy in a kiosk decided she doesn't like BB? Not really. It's because BB was arrogant about their market position. Now they are playing catchup. And yeah, the have a nice phone. The Z30 earned it's way back into my pocket after several Androids. There is one reason for that - they did a good job on the phone. That's my criteria. It helps that yeah, I liked BB - especially the Bold, and was hoping they'd get it together. Technically, they have. Their marketing, however. sucks. And having clowns like you assuming that anyone who comes here and says something good about another phone is a shill isn't helping anything. You are basically the BB version of the Apply fanboy and think things through about as deeply as one.

[Tre Lawrence]

If the frontline person has been trained properly and/or retained and continues to lie, it is absolutely that persons problem and they should be fired. If that persons manager can't be bothered, it's their problem and the same thing applies. Never mind the FCC thing.
Image doesn't enter into it when you have a job to do... PROPERLY.
Were you lied to when you went to buy a Treo?

Depends on how you look at it. The salesperson told me that Treo was going out of business, and that no other smartphone had built-in wi-fi. I know my stuff, got the Treo I wanted, but explored the 8320 and got that in the next six months. No sweat.

There is this troubling theory in BB land that consumers (outside those of us "smart enough" to own BB10) are stupid... that salespeople can force people to own things they do not want to own for long periods of time. Okay.

But unless BBRY steps up and fixes its own image, y'all can go around firing as many untrained kiosk staffers as you want. Won't change a thing. On a cerebral level, I get firing people. It's cut and dry, to a degree (if it really occurred). But it is not fixing the problem.

Do y'all really think the phone companies care more about selling BB10 devices than the saleslady does/did? We complain day in and day out that BBRY doesn't market its products, and we blame salespeople?

Had an Android-using salesperson totally annihilate the iPad at a Walmart smart-device display a while back. Was freakin' hilarious. Looking at Apple's balance sheet, this salesperson was relatively inconsequential.

C'mon...

[SmellWhole]

How can you call the frontline employee who is lying to a customer inconsequential? It is directly and largely part of the problem ...

It's a tort, slander resulting in a direct loss of revenue. BlackBerry should sue Verizon for this.

[trwallace]

blackberry themselves killed the release success of the z30. They released it in the were up for sale period. i know alot of people just simply disregarded the company all together after that. So the Z30 might have been a great product with wonderful attributes and superb performance but if you know anything about market release its a timing thing. The timing was terrible. This was a big botch job. if anything they should have waited until after the sale to say hey this is our new product we are not going anywhere. What that said is we are releasing this product please buy it but we might not be around to support it should the wrong entity buy our company. i for one minute dont blame anyone for saying thanks but no thanks. Now that things are on a better ground this is a better time to bring up a new product. So alot of this thats happening now is still reaction to that period of uncertainty. its like they are all saying we got burned last time when you put yourself up for sale. We are just trying to get your product out of our store and backroom so you dont do something like that to us again. Thats the mentality and they may have been reassured but its exactly what is going on. So dont be surprised at the treatment blackberry receives. if i am a business owner or franchise dealer im thinking twice about the product myself. From a business perspective you do see why this is all happening i hope.

[Tre Lawrence]

I didn't "lose" that tired "point" of yours -- nice try -- I disagree with it.

Okay. Disagreeing is cool. We also disagree on our understanding of the term "adamant defense" as well, but such is tale of online fora. LOL.

[Meaty123]

This could be a step towards a good direction... Wireless carriers needs to educate their sales people about all available devices. Android, iOS, BB and WP ... Their job is sell a phone and the service and provide customer assistance ... If you can't all that, clearly you need training or you are not in the right job ....

[02mustang02]

I have been to multiple Verizon stores no one carrying the Z30 I want to see it first hand before making the switch from My Z10. But no one has it and it is frustrating I have actually had a rep say that it is an amazing phone and he doesn't know why it wasn't on display.

Posted via CB10

[Tre Lawrence]

It's a tort, slander resulting in a direct loss of revenue. BlackBerry should sue Verizon for this.

Bingo! We completely agree.

Now, assuming there is a verifiable issue, if BBRY isn't doing this, either it believes its best ROI is achieved elsewhere, or it itself is incompetent and should suffer the consequences.

[Tre Lawrence]

This could be a step towards a good direction... Wireless carriers needs to educate their sales people about all available devices. Android, iOS, BB and WP ... Their job is sell a phone and the service and provide customer assistance ... If you can't all that, clearly you need training or you are not in the right job ....

True, but I think the best salespeople are people selling things they actually like themselves.

[anon(3896606)]

This topic is fairly sensitive, I can tell, however, I have a few points to make.

/rant

1. If you are being paid for something, you better do it well. It doesn't matter how much you are being paid. Being paid or hired means that you should be somewhat knowledgeable in whatever it is you do. (Do you just claim false statements on your resume, or do you actually have no knowledge in whatever it is you're being hired for? Because if I was hiring at a mobile boutique, I wouldn't accept someone that has no knowledge or experience on their resume.)
2. The fact is, anyone can be replaced... I believe that what OP did was just. As someone has to be made an example of. Maybe it's the sales rep, maybe it's a manager. You can't just spew false claims. Repercussions must be made.

I believe that if you have a job, ESPECIALLY ONE THAT PAYS, you should at least be considerate enough to learn something about what you do.
Hearsay isn't good enough, and if I went around spewing garbage instead of accurate information, I would have lost my job by now.

/endrant

[SmellWhole]

... Now, assuming there is a verifiable issue, if BBRY isn't doing this, either it believes its best ROI is achieved elsewhere, or it itself is incompetent and should suffer the consequences.

And that means we BlackBerry enthusiasts can't do what we think will help (e.g. get the liar fired)? Just because BlackBerry doesn't sue Verizon doesn't mean other people like the op or even I can't do what we want or whatever we think will help. We can and we will (even if Tre Lawrence insists adamantly on a forum that doing so isn't a useful course of action).

[Tre Lawrence]

blackberry themselves killed the release success of the z30. They released it in the were up for sale period. i know alot of people just simply disregarded the company all together after that. So the Z30 might have been a great product with wonderful attributes and superb performance but if you know anything about market release its a timing thing. The timing was terrible. This was a big botch job. if anything they should have waited until after the sale to say hey this is our new product we are not going anywhere. What that said is we are releasing this product please buy it but we might not be around to support it should the wrong entity buy our company. i for one minute dont blame anyone for saying thanks but no thanks. Now that things are on a better ground this is a better time to bring up a new product. So alot of this thats happening now is still reaction to that period of uncertainty. its like they are all saying we got burned last time when you put yourself up for sale. We are just trying to get your product out of our store and backroom so you dont do something like that to us again. Thats the mentality and they may have been reassured but its exactly what is going on. So dont be surprised at the treatment blackberry receives. if i am a business owner or franchise dealer im thinking twice about the product myself. From a business perspective you do see why this is all happening i hope.

I mostly agree with this point of view. It's business... the same bug that hurt Android way back when, the cycle that Apple went through, what Pal?webOS suffered. carriers want money. he day iOS and Android do not bring that in, they'll kick them out the front door.

And the salespeople will move on to the next best thing.

[enik]

you guys have to understand that most likely to the people in the U.S. are what you would call Highly suggestable. They grew up watching 6 to 7 hours of television a day. Studies show that if you do watch that much television, you don't have the ability to really think for yourself. So, lighten up on them, they are brain damaged.

Damn you just completely read me right!

Posted via CB10

[Tre Lawrence]

And that means we BlackBerry enthusiasts can't do what we want to help (e.g. get the liar fired)? Just because BlackBerry doesn't sue Verizon doesn't mean other people like the op or even me can't do what we want or whatever we think will help. We can and we will (even if Tre Lawrence insists adamantly on a forum that doing so isn't a useful course of action).

Nah... I adamantly believe that no one can love BBRY more than BBRY loves itself. It's got to wanna survive. If there is a problem with VZW (or any other carrier), BBRY has a responsibility to me as a customer to ensure that I have every opportunity to purchase it.

I vote with my wallet. If an entity doesn't please me, I move on. Lying about electronics does not rate highly on my anger meter.

[reeneebob]

Do you guys know what "end of life" means in a wireless business? I don't think some of you do.

They are EOLd. All of our BB stock was ordered back at the beginning of January. If you walked into my store and wanted one, I couldn't even get one from the warehouse,

There are several popular handsets that are end of life. All that means is the store will not be replenished when they are gone. She wasn't talking about the company itself being EOL.

So, for those who are cheering costing someone their job over a hunk of metal and plastic (and I have no words for those who are), good job. You got someone fired for saying what the replenishment status is on a product to the retail store. Good work. That poor girl lost her job because someone in merchandising put a phone on an end of life listing.

Guess now I will have to live in fear if I, as a store manager, am unable to get a phone in because it has been EOLd and some fanboy has begun a personal crusade for a corporation.

Good lord.


Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD

[Tre Lawrence]

This topic is fairly sensitive, I can tell, however, I have a few points to make.

/rant

1. If you are being paid for something, you better do it well. It doesn't matter how much you are being paid. Being paid or hired means that you should be somewhat knowledgeable in whatever it is you do. (Do you just claim false statements on your resume, or do you actually have no knowledge in whatever it is you're being hired for? Because if I was hiring at a mobile boutique, I wouldn't accept someone that has no knowledge or experience on their resume.)
2. The fact is, anyone can be replaced... I believe that what OP did was just. As someone has to be made an example of. Maybe it's the sales rep, maybe it's a manager. You can't just spew false claims. Repercussions must be made.

I believe that if you have a job, ESPECIALLY ONE THAT PAYS, you should at least be considerate enough to learn something about what you do.
Hearsay isn't good enough, and if I went around spewing garbage instead of accurate information, I would have lost my job by now.

/endrant

Really can't find anything wrong with what you said. It's good advice for life.

In this case, the one point I think most people will disagree with is that instead of calling a federal agency, I would have been more likely to email JC.

[MikeLip]

Really can't find anything wrong with what you said. It's good advice for life.

In this case, the one point I think most people will disagree with is that instead of calling a federal agency, I would have been more likely to email JC.

Or, rather than going that route and having your email tossed by his secretary, you could simply go to her boss. He or she is right there, you know? Why wasn't that the first option?

[reeneebob]

This could be a step towards a good direction... Wireless carriers needs to educate their sales people about all available devices. Android, iOS, BB and WP ... Their job is sell a phone and the service and provide customer assistance ... If you can't all that, clearly you need training or you are not in the right job ....

So because merchandising has called back stock, no store in my province or out of province has one, and the warehouse can't either, and so when my customer came in last week looking for a Z30 and I spent well over a week trying all my channels to get one for them and can't, BECAUSE MERCHANDISING DECLARED IT END OF LIFE ALONG WITH SEVERAL OTHER HANDSETS FROM OTHER MANUFACTURERS, I am poorly trained and should lose my job?

Just trying to wrap my head around this reasoning. End of life is declared for a reason. Do you think I like not being able to get the phone my customer wants for them?


Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD

[Tre Lawrence]

Or, rather than going that route and having your email tossed by his secretary, you could simply go to her boss. He or she is right there, you know? Why wasn't that the first option?

No, frankly I wouldn't go to anyone. I'm just saying that before I contact a federal agency I will probably contact BBRY... the entity with the most to lose

As I said earlier, not getting the phone I want at a carrier store does not rate high on my action list.