[scubafan]

I'm also trying to decide between switching from my Q10 to either a Classic or a Z30. The classic is attractive to me because I really prefer the physical kb, and the tool belt is a plus since it has the mouse feature plus I finally get back the physical "off" button I missed. I heard that the CPU and display of the Z30 are an improvement over what I now have, while the Classic is just a tiny bit larger display with the same architecture as the Q10. I've always had difficulty getting virtual keyboards to react properly to my fingers and the tiny keys on my Q10 are only usable with the tip of my finger. I had hoped that maybe I could enlarge the virtual keyboard on the Z30 to be big enough for me to use both thumbs like others can do. Is it possible or is there just the one size like on the Z10 that never worked well for me?

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

[conite]

Nope. Only one size.

Maybe try a Passport if you're stuck on BB10.

[scubafan]

Well, I AM "stuck" on BB10 in the sense that I despise the way scroogle wants to data mine every single bit of data on my device. If BlackBerry had made it so the "droidberries" retained the ability to selectively prevent apps & google from reading calendar and contacts I might reconsider but the OS clearly states that even though marshmallow supposedly added a limited ability to block SOME types of access to the device from some apps, 95% or more android apps refuse to even open if you refuse to allow everything that the app wants! Ignoring the creepy fact that a flashlight app or a calculator have zero legitimate reason for knowing my phone number, location etc, NO app needs to read my calendar, contacts or texts! In my case I would also be breaking Federal HIPAA laws since I have patients names, phone numbers and appointments in my calendar and contacts. For that matter, I also use my calendar to remind me of Dr appointments for ME, and often leave myself notes to remember to ask the Dr about various treatments or medications. So it's NONE OF GOOGLE'S BUSINESS! And illegal for me to share. And none of my friends and family gave me permission to share their personal info with anyone. I know that the vast majority of sheeple put out every tiny bit of what run through their minds onto social media. But several of the people in my contacts are like me, in that they too aren't going to have any social media presence. On a practical note, since I get zero value from all the different data mining & tracking companies and don't use any aspect of google why should I allow them to profit from data about MY likes or needs? They never gave me a single reason for sharing this with them. I also greatly prefer how the BlackBerry link allows me to back up and modify directly to my stand-alone version of M.$ outlook and so avoid another type of intrusion! But when my wife needed to have an android phone in order to use the new electronic medical records system at work, we were disgusted to see that BlackBerry not only didn't bother to put in ANY provision for making it so that googl e couldn't read, modify or delete ANY data on the phone (it's in the 1st paragraph of the TOS that most people blindly accept) as well as they have the ability to send any of the data on the device by text or phone call without telling you, with all caps saying EVEN IF IT COSTS YOU MONEY. The next huge letdown was when I called BlackBerry support to be told that not only didn't they bother to create a link program so users could retain all of their data on their personal or Enterprise PC, BlackBerry expected all users to happily embrace the full gooogle ecosystem! So you backup using their cloud service so instead of just reading the entire device they have everything on it to data mine for sharing within the family of companies but you were expected to be fine with using their calendar for all personal information and business information. Oh, and of course you wouldn't mind them reading every text you send or receive! I actually got a shock last week when I discovered that even though she deliberately avoided allowing the backup and cloud services, her Samsung tablet has all of her texts on it!

So yes, I am feeling VERY much stuck with BB10! The privacy factor is one of the biggest reasons for switching to BlackBerry way back with my 9000. And I suspect that there are more users out there who feel ripped off too, but just haven't bothered to ***** about it...
Other than a very few useful apps like Consumer Reports or a few airline apps so I don't have to mess with paper tickets there are few to no apps that I want or need that would ever make it worth the huge loss of privacy. Once I can't find a working BlackBerry 10 device to buy, I'll probably keep one just to run whichever of the 250 apps I have now still working and put a prepaid "go-phone" sim card in it and get a flip phone for making calls.

I just resent having my personal life bought and sold without getting so much as a penny in value in return! I don't use any of the services they own, from browser, search engine to OS or ANY Social Media. So the "implied value" that I'm supposed to get in return for selling everything is literally $0.00. That's just from g oogle. All the slimy apps written in order to vacuum up all the data they can are just slightly disguised con artists. If you aren't paying for the product or service, then YOU are the product being sold. Perhaps someday enough will decide to become people but I envision that probably 70% to 80% either won't understand it or not care.

So THAT'S why I changed my opinion regarding the BlackBerry company in general. Wife has a $500 paperweight and stores her contacts & calendar on a paper notebook. I like having the information asap so I put up with paper notebooks.

Sorry for the rant to fully flesh out my point! But if BlackBerry actually cared about the user they wouldn't have removed the features that made the user buy one in the 1st place. Big deal that you now have token support but little actual support....

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

[Chuck Finley69]

Well, I AM "stuck" on BB10 in the sense that I despise the way scroogle wants to data mine every single bit of data on my device. If BlackBerry had made it so the "droidberries" retained the ability to selectively prevent apps & google from reading calendar and contacts I might reconsider but the OS clearly states that even though marshmallow supposedly added a limited ability to block SOME types of access to the device from some apps, 95% or more android apps refuse to even open if you refuse to allow everything that the app wants! Ignoring the creepy fact that a flashlight app or a calculator have zero legitimate reason for knowing my phone number, location etc, NO app needs to read my calendar, contacts or texts! In my case I would also be breaking Federal HIPAA laws since I have patients names, phone numbers and appointments in my calendar and contacts. For that matter, I also use my calendar to remind me of Dr appointments for ME, and often leave myself notes to remember to ask the Dr about various treatments or medications. So it's NONE OF GOOGLE'S BUSINESS! And illegal for me to share. And none of my friends and family gave me permission to share their personal info with anyone. I know that the vast majority of sheeple put out every tiny bit of what run through their minds onto social media. But several of the people in my contacts are like me, in that they too aren't going to have any social media presence. On a practical note, since I get zero value from all the different data mining & tracking companies and don't use any aspect of google why should I allow them to profit from data about MY likes or needs? They never gave me a single reason for sharing this with them. I also greatly prefer how the BlackBerry link allows me to back up and modify directly to my stand-alone version of M.$ outlook and so avoid another type of intrusion! But when my wife needed to have an android phone in order to use the new electronic medical records system at work, we were disgusted to see that BlackBerry not only didn't bother to put in ANY provision for making it so that googl e couldn't read, modify or delete ANY data on the phone (it's in the 1st paragraph of the TOS that most people blindly accept) as well as they have the ability to send any of the data on the device by text or phone call without telling you, with all caps saying EVEN IF IT COSTS YOU MONEY. The next huge letdown was when I called BlackBerry support to be told that not only didn't they bother to create a link program so users could retain all of their data on their personal or Enterprise PC, BlackBerry expected all users to happily embrace the full gooogle ecosystem! So you backup using their cloud service so instead of just reading the entire device they have everything on it to data mine for sharing within the family of companies but you were expected to be fine with using their calendar for all personal information and business information. Oh, and of course you wouldn't mind them reading every text you send or receive! I actually got a shock last week when I discovered that even though she deliberately avoided allowing the backup and cloud services, her Samsung tablet has all of her texts on it!

So yes, I am feeling VERY much stuck with BB10! The privacy factor is one of the biggest reasons for switching to BlackBerry way back with my 9000. And I suspect that there are more users out there who feel ripped off too, but just haven't bothered to ***** about it...
Other than a very few useful apps like Consumer Reports or a few airline apps so I don't have to mess with paper tickets there are few to no apps that I want or need that would ever make it worth the huge loss of privacy. Once I can't find a working BlackBerry 10 device to buy, I'll probably keep one just to run whichever of the 250 apps I have now still working and put a prepaid "go-phone" sim card in it and get a flip phone for making calls.

I just resent having my personal life bought and sold without getting so much as a penny in value in return! I don't use any of the services they own, from browser, search engine to OS or ANY Social Media. So the "implied value" that I'm supposed to get in return for selling everything is literally $0.00. That's just from g oogle. All the slimy apps written in order to vacuum up all the data they can are just slightly disguised con artists. If you aren't paying for the product or service, then YOU are the product being sold. Perhaps someday enough will decide to become people but I envision that probably 70% to 80% either won't understand it or not care.

So THAT'S why I changed my opinion regarding the BlackBerry company in general. Wife has a $500 paperweight and stores her contacts & calendar on a paper notebook. I like having the information asap so I put up with paper notebooks.

Sorry for the rant to fully flesh out my point! But if BlackBerry actually cared about the user they wouldn't have removed the features that made the user buy one in the 1st place. Big deal that you now have token support but little actual support....

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

Better stop using smartphones including BB10. Additionally, in 2017, with all your concerns, even the Internet with its search engines, might upset you more. Apple, Google and Microsoft on your PC, grab your data there also.

[misterabrasive]

Hmmm! Hard to imagine all the paranoia around here.

[conite]

Well, I AM "stuck" on BB10 in the sense that I despise the way scroogle wants to data mine every single bit of data on my device. If BlackBerry had made it so the "droidberries" retained the ability to selectively prevent apps & google from reading calendar and contacts I might reconsider but the OS clearly states that even though marshmallow supposedly added a limited ability to block SOME types of access to the device from some apps, 95% or more android apps refuse to even open if you refuse to allow everything that the app wants! Ignoring the creepy fact that a flashlight app or a calculator have zero legitimate reason for knowing my phone number, location etc, NO app needs to read my calendar, contacts or texts! In my case I would also be breaking Federal HIPAA laws since I have patients names, phone numbers and appointments in my calendar and contacts. For that matter, I also use my calendar to remind me of Dr appointments for ME, and often leave myself notes to remember to ask the Dr about various treatments or medications. So it's NONE OF GOOGLE'S BUSINESS! And illegal for me to share. And none of my friends and family gave me permission to share their personal info with anyone. I know that the vast majority of sheeple put out every tiny bit of what run through their minds onto social media. But several of the people in my contacts are like me, in that they too aren't going to have any social media presence. On a practical note, since I get zero value from all the different data mining & tracking companies and don't use any aspect of google why should I allow them to profit from data about MY likes or needs? They never gave me a single reason for sharing this with them. I also greatly prefer how the BlackBerry link allows me to back up and modify directly to my stand-alone version of M.$ outlook and so avoid another type of intrusion! But when my wife needed to have an android phone in order to use the new electronic medical records system at work, we were disgusted to see that BlackBerry not only didn't bother to put in ANY provision for making it so that googl e couldn't read, modify or delete ANY data on the phone (it's in the 1st paragraph of the TOS that most people blindly accept) as well as they have the ability to send any of the data on the device by text or phone call without telling you, with all caps saying EVEN IF IT COSTS YOU MONEY. The next huge letdown was when I called BlackBerry support to be told that not only didn't they bother to create a link program so users could retain all of their data on their personal or Enterprise PC, BlackBerry expected all users to happily embrace the full gooogle ecosystem! So you backup using their cloud service so instead of just reading the entire device they have everything on it to data mine for sharing within the family of companies but you were expected to be fine with using their calendar for all personal information and business information. Oh, and of course you wouldn't mind them reading every text you send or receive! I actually got a shock last week when I discovered that even though she deliberately avoided allowing the backup and cloud services, her Samsung tablet has all of her texts on it!

So yes, I am feeling VERY much stuck with BB10! The privacy factor is one of the biggest reasons for switching to BlackBerry way back with my 9000. And I suspect that there are more users out there who feel ripped off too, but just haven't bothered to ***** about it...
Other than a very few useful apps like Consumer Reports or a few airline apps so I don't have to mess with paper tickets there are few to no apps that I want or need that would ever make it worth the huge loss of privacy. Once I can't find a working BlackBerry 10 device to buy, I'll probably keep one just to run whichever of the 250 apps I have now still working and put a prepaid "go-phone" sim card in it and get a flip phone for making calls.

I just resent having my personal life bought and sold without getting so much as a penny in value in return! I don't use any of the services they own, from browser, search engine to OS or ANY Social Media. So the "implied value" that I'm supposed to get in return for selling everything is literally $0.00. That's just from g oogle. All the slimy apps written in order to vacuum up all the data they can are just slightly disguised con artists. If you aren't paying for the product or service, then YOU are the product being sold. Perhaps someday enough will decide to become people but I envision that probably 70% to 80% either won't understand it or not care.

So THAT'S why I changed my opinion regarding the BlackBerry company in general. Wife has a $500 paperweight and stores her contacts & calendar on a paper notebook. I like having the information asap so I put up with paper notebooks.

Sorry for the rant to fully flesh out my point! But if BlackBerry actually cared about the user they wouldn't have removed the features that made the user buy one in the 1st place. Big deal that you now have token support but little actual support....

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

Thought we were talking about keyboards.

[scubafan]

I guess you missed the part where I said I don't use any goog-le products, use a vpn on my home Win 7/64 pc and have blocked all of their dozens of attempts to add telemetry features to my pc. I only install updates after I verified that it only does what it spells out. While I hate the OS, after end of security updates for win7 I'll switch to win 8.1 and just put up with the poor interface. I actually read the TOS and "privacy" policy of every app before I install it. If they "forgot" to mention it before I start the install, I refuse to allow any app access to contacts, texts or calendar. If the app refuses to open without the data they want to sell, I delete the app and leave a scathing review explaining what unnecessary access the app wants so others don't waste data plan on it. I get great search results from Duckduckgo.com and often more variety than the same search terms from the other browsers. I refuse 3rd party cookies and all others are deleted when I close the browser. And no, this isn't tinfoil hat thinking. I am very aware that the government knows all about me, as I had FBI and CID checks every six months to keep my security clearance needed for my MOS. As I explained, I am unwilling to make it easier for every ***-hat data broker or website or app to make money by selling any data about me. I also never give actual responses to the "security questions" most sites use. As long as the user remembers to say the correct response to the question none of the software cares if the reply is nonsensical. So you can say that your favorite teacher or mother's maiden name is king Kong and it'll be accepted by the system.

As for apps, if I try a "free" app that tells me up front that I'm going to see ads on the page, I'm willing to accept that as the method they use to make their income. But if the app wants what I'm unwilling to provide then I won't want the app. Simple equation. If a product is free and you use it, then YOU are the true product being sold. Not just my viewpoint, dozens of columns have been written on the topic in various tech magazines or on tech blogs with the same point at the end. Users have to decide if (to them) the trade is worth it.
That's one of the reasons why I don't use any new M$ products, especially the thinly disguised spyware they call win 10. After much clamoring, M$ reduced SOME of the ways they watch users but insist that they need to access your browsing and a few other areas "to ensure product satisfaction". They also made it possible to briefly delay updates but even when a user like a print shop MUST stay with the OS they have or be unable to function with legacy, large & expensive equipment they are still forced to install the update while knowing that it'll brick their device or system.

In my view, if I can be forced to modify the system that is what I need into one that no longer works, then I no longer own the device. I bought a computer with an operating system. But with Windows 10 M$ is removing control of the device from the user. If I can't control how and in what ways the pc works then I no longer own it!

No matter what pretty words they use to describe the forced updates and multiple invasive ways they can use to know which apps you use the most often including how long at a time, or how they hide so many of the snooping so that you have to resort to spend hours learning how to opt-out from each type one by one. So they basically feel they have the right to learn anything they want about you and what you use your pc for. That isn't ownership, at best it's a rental with limits placed on how you can use it!

Other people may ignore it, and except for the invasive snooping from microshaft I have heard that the basic OS is better and more secure. Frankly I don't give a bleep. I already decided to fight to avoid the OS once I saw the dozens of attempts to sneak the "upgrade" onto my laptops. To me, sleazy behavior like that is the kiss of death. I personally know people who declined the update that had their businesses severely damaged by the update. One friend ran a print shop and couldn't use his two biggest printers for almost three months! He lost a huge amount of money and lost many long term customers. Another made large scale blueprints and could scan them as well. Same thing! I personally think that if the new OS was good then I would make the choice of updating or not. When they kept sneaking it on to people's pc's and tried SO hard to trick me into taking it I had to think that it must be crap if the only idea they have is to either trick people to install it or outright force it if they aren't careful to turn OFF automatically update system. I'm no Luddite, in fact I try to keep up with new developments in tech every day. But one-sided deals where I give up privacy for zero return don't interest me. I also didn't want to create a "windows ID" with them as the TOS for those include even more ways they're allowed to market your data to anyone who wants to pay them. My time is too valuable to me to allow things that can double or triple the spam or just email trying to sell me crap I never wanted. So that's why I'm so set on minimizing my exposure to whatever I can avoid. You are certainly welcome to have a different point of view. I just wish that the mob of people who like "free" stuff hadn't exponentially grown as their intellect decreased. There have been multiple studies done where users blindly click yes to TOS that require them to do things like loan their youngest child (Jay Leno televised several of these) and TV commercials stating that nobody actually reads anything before accepting ridiculous things. So I just don't want to play.

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

[scubafan]

Thought we were talking about keyboards.

I was just responding to the post telling me to avoid things that I already avoid. Now that BlackBerry has abandoned the core users who want a useful business tool instead of a toy to run whatever app catches the short term attention span I'm just trying to make the best of the few remaining options. I figured it'd be unlikely, but with so many devices that make provisions for people with disabilities, I held out a small hope that the Z30's virtual kb could be expanded. From what I've read, the Passport is a better device, but it has the same tiny keys that I struggle with on my Q10, with the added fun of fewer keys so I have to relearn the keyboard AND still have to peck out one key at a time with the tip of one finger. It was a shot anyway.

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

[conite]

I was just responding to the post telling me to avoid things that I already avoid. Now that BlackBerry has abandoned the core users who want a useful business tool instead of a toy to run whatever app catches the short term attention span.

That was my post. I wrote if you were still stuck on BB10, consider the larger keys on the Passport.

But no need for you to start insulting people's choices now. I am a business user, and far prefer Android because I can get a lot more work done, a lot faster. I also have a healthy attention span, and I don't play games. I've owned almost every BlackBerry device going back to the 7100i, so I have some experience in this area, and have a good base of reference for my opinion.

[Chuck Finley69]

I guess you missed the part where I said I don't use any goog-le products, use a vpn on my home Win 7/64 pc and have blocked all of their dozens of attempts to add telemetry features to my pc. I only install updates after I verified that it only does what it spells out. While I hate the OS, after end of security updates for win7 I'll switch to win 8.1 and just put up with the poor interface. I actually read the TOS and "privacy" policy of every app before I install it. If they "forgot" to mention it before I start the install, I refuse to allow any app access to contacts, texts or calendar. If the app refuses to open without the data they want to sell, I delete the app and leave a scathing review explaining what unnecessary access the app wants so others don't waste data plan on it. I get great search results from Duckduckgo.com and often more variety than the same search terms from the other browsers. I refuse 3rd party cookies and all others are deleted when I close the browser. And no, this isn't tinfoil hat thinking. I am very aware that the government knows all about me, as I had FBI and CID checks every six months to keep my security clearance needed for my MOS. As I explained, I am unwilling to make it easier for every ***-hat data broker or website or app to make money by selling any data about me. I also never give actual responses to the "security questions" most sites use. As long as the user remembers to say the correct response to the question none of the software cares if the reply is nonsensical. So you can say that your favorite teacher or mother's maiden name is king Kong and it'll be accepted by the system.

As for apps, if I try a "free" app that tells me up front that I'm going to see ads on the page, I'm willing to accept that as the method they use to make their income. But if the app wants what I'm unwilling to provide then I won't want the app. Simple equation. If a product is free and you use it, then YOU are the true product being sold. Not just my viewpoint, dozens of columns have been written on the topic in various tech magazines or on tech blogs with the same point at the end. Users have to decide if (to them) the trade is worth it.
That's one of the reasons why I don't use any new M$ products, especially the thinly disguised spyware they call win 10. After much clamoring, M$ reduced SOME of the ways they watch users but insist that they need to access your browsing and a few other areas "to ensure product satisfaction". They also made it possible to briefly delay updates but even when a user like a print shop MUST stay with the OS they have or be unable to function with legacy, large & expensive equipment they are still forced to install the update while knowing that it'll brick their device or system.

In my view, if I can be forced to modify the system that is what I need into one that no longer works, then I no longer own the device. I bought a computer with an operating system. But with Windows 10 M$ is removing control of the device from the user. If I can't control how and in what ways the pc works then I no longer own it!

No matter what pretty words they use to describe the forced updates and multiple invasive ways they can use to know which apps you use the most often including how long at a time, or how they hide so many of the snooping so that you have to resort to spend hours learning how to opt-out from each type one by one. So they basically feel they have the right to learn anything they want about you and what you use your pc for. That isn't ownership, at best it's a rental with limits placed on how you can use it!

Other people may ignore it, and except for the invasive snooping from microshaft I have heard that the basic OS is better and more secure. Frankly I don't give a bleep. I already decided to fight to avoid the OS once I saw the dozens of attempts to sneak the "upgrade" onto my laptops. To me, sleazy behavior like that is the kiss of death. I personally know people who declined the update that had their businesses severely damaged by the update. One friend ran a print shop and couldn't use his two biggest printers for almost three months! He lost a huge amount of money and lost many long term customers. Another made large scale blueprints and could scan them as well. Same thing! I personally think that if the new OS was good then I would make the choice of updating or not. When they kept sneaking it on to people's pc's and tried SO hard to trick me into taking it I had to think that it must be crap if the only idea they have is to either trick people to install it or outright force it if they aren't careful to turn OFF automatically update system. I'm no Luddite, in fact I try to keep up with new developments in tech every day. But one-sided deals where I give up privacy for zero return don't interest me. I also didn't want to create a "windows ID" with them as the TOS for those include even more ways they're allowed to market your data to anyone who wants to pay them. My time is too valuable to me to allow things that can double or triple the spam or just email trying to sell me crap I never wanted. So that's why I'm so set on minimizing my exposure to whatever I can avoid. You are certainly welcome to have a different point of view. I just wish that the mob of people who like "free" stuff hadn't exponentially grown as their intellect decreased. There have been multiple studies done where users blindly click yes to TOS that require them to do things like loan their youngest child (Jay Leno televised several of these) and TV commercials stating that nobody actually reads anything before accepting ridiculous things. So I just don't want to play.

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

I think you're responding to me....

Data mining has been around long before smartphones. Even BB10 mines your data. They always package it around the friendly term, user experience.

You're explained about using Win 7. Again, I'm just asking, even Win 7 mines your data, right? That's why using a VPN is part of your routine.

I don't like the idea of being followed anymore than you. My point was, it's around you more than just that. When I needed to disappear, I was taught only effective way, is off grid. You're still leaving footprints, a pattern to follow or track.

You didn't mention it, but I'm assuming you know to avoid cable or satellite tv. If you have to go somewhere, cab... Nowadays if you own a vehicle, data miners track your registrations from DMV.

I still don't know how you're able to use a Q10. Your service provider still does sell their billing data/info on you. Burner prepaid is closest to go but that still leaves electronic footprint to follow and can be used as process of elimination. Pay telephones are non-existent so, I'd go flip phone, and library computer only if absolutely necessary.

[Invictus0]

Data mining has been around long before smartphones. Even BB10 mines your data. They always package it around the friendly term, user experience.

What data does it mine? If you're referring to telemetry data, location sharing, etc it's actually disabled by default on BB10 whereas other platforms usually enable it by default (or keep the setting checked during initial setup).

[scubafan]

Hmmm! Hard to imagine all the paranoia around here.

No paranoia at all! I just resent having every company feel they have the right to make money by selling data about me without giving me anything in return! So I avoid the easiest ways they have to data mine and don't use any products by most of them. As far as apps, like I posted, I'm willing to see ads as payment for the "free" app but prefer to buy them. Those that won't work unless I allow it to harvest information are deleted and given a review telling others the issue so they can decide for themselves. Pretty basic desire for privacy, but no paranoia.

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

[Chuck Finley69]

No paranoia at all! I just resent having every company feel they have the right to make money by selling data about me without giving me anything in return! So I avoid the easiest ways they have to data mine and don't use any products by most of them. As far as apps, like I posted, I'm willing to see ads as payment for the "free" app but prefer to buy them. Those that won't work unless I allow it to harvest information are deleted and given a review telling others the issue so they can decide for themselves. Pretty basic desire for privacy, but no paranoia.

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

They give you the ecosystem in return although you're entitled to believe it's not worth the price or the price is too high, whatever you feel is the proper description.

I believe that despite all your efforts, you still leave sellable data behind even with all your expertise. The same way that AI develops through past action decision flow charts, it also uses process of elimination for culling future data and choices. In that sense, you still contribute important data points free, just being part of the Internet society in such places as here.

[scubafan]

Well, I suppose that if nothing else I can leave as few bits for them to collect. And as for the ecosystem, I won't be using any part of the android or Win 10 systems, so I don't derive any benefit from either, which is one of the main reasons why I feel they aren't entitled to harvest my data... that's why I am working on making the best choices I can in deciding between the three BB10 devices and why I won't purchase a new laptop that runs windows 10. I may not be able to leave no traces but I don't plan on making it easy for collecting. Between that and the fact that I haven't ever used any kind of social media there isn't much for them to grab. But if I used an android device, then my every contact with the outside world is given to the data brokers, advertisers and spammers. I just expected better from a BlackBerry product. I've never had much reason to worry about someone attacking the actual OS on my phone the same way as I try to prevent malware from bricking my laptop. To me all of the claims of being a more secure device than the others is an empty promise that doesn't mean very much for my life. The way my Q10 let's me deny all but one of the 256 apps on it from reading GPS, contacts or calendar pleases me and usually impresses others when I show them how deeply their devices digs in and dissected what they foolishly thought was their private life while my cell is willing to operate without a hitch even when nearly every permission is denied ! So to me it's worth a little more hassle. :-)

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

[conite]

Well, I suppose that if nothing else I can leave as few bits for them to collect. And as for the ecosystem, I won't be using any part of the android or Win 10 systems, so I don't derive any benefit from either, which is one of the main reasons why I feel they aren't entitled to harvest my data... that's why I am working on making the best choices I can in deciding between the three BB10 devices and why I won't purchase a new laptop that runs windows 10. I may not be able to leave no traces but I don't plan on making it easy for collecting. Between that and the fact that I haven't ever used any kind of social media there isn't much for them to grab. But if I used an android device, then my every contact with the outside world is given to the data brokers, advertisers and spammers. I just expected better from a BlackBerry product. I've never had much reason to worry about someone attacking the actual OS on my phone the same way as I try to prevent malware from bricking my laptop. To me all of the claims of being a more secure device than the others is an empty promise that doesn't mean very much for my life. The way my Q10 let's me deny all but one of the 256 apps on it from reading GPS, contacts or calendar pleases me and usually impresses others when I show them how deeply their devices digs in and dissected what they foolishly thought was their private life while my cell is willing to operate without a hitch even when nearly every permission is denied ! So to me it's worth a little more hassle. :-)

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

BlackBerry has essentially the same ToS as Google and Apple. They are no more altruistic - they just had so few users that their data was worthless.

[kelom]

Guys, are we talking about BlackBerry keyboard?

Posted via CB10

[scubafan]

Keylom, it started with my question about the kb on the Z30 but some didn't agree with the reasons why I am sticking with the BB10 OS. And as far as the comment that BlackBerry is no more altruistic, I only partially agree. While I think that the switch to android was more a case of bowing to the masses who "just can't live without" whatever app they couldn't get on BlackBerry World. The ones exemplified by the reviews left on apps blaming BlackBerry because the person who created the app did or didn't have something they wanted. But the switch to android threw all of the people who wanted a high quality business tool that allows the user to sync up to their own systems for updates and backups. I will read the BlackBerry TOS and privacy policy terms again, but I don't recall it having even half of the most intrusive snooping that you have to agree with to even turn on any android. The parts where they can read, modify or delete any files on the device, or can use your data plan to send anything "even if it costs you money". I also don't recall BlackBerry saying that they can use the camera or microphone at any time without your knowledge. I DO know that the native map app will still work just fine even if you deny it access to the GPS! It asks once, and then works perfectly. I often use it for trip planning, and if I'm looking to find out how far Miami is from Key West while I happen to be in Chicago, the app doesn't need my current location in order to give me the answer. So IMHO, while it might not count as altruistic that BlackBerry lets me keep apps from invading my privacy by trying to read my email or texts, or from harvesting the stored info in my contacts I feel that at least they understand the core user group enough to know that they want that level of control over who sees the data. In my case, if I allow any outside company to access my calendar or contacts I will violate HIPAA law because I have patients information in both. Since I sync with my PC via USB cable, I am within the requirements. As I told another person, I don't care if 90+% of users in the medical field ignore the law, I have never allowed any app to access these areas. Since the only way BlackBerry can claim that their android devices are "more secure" is only that the kernel of the OS is better protected from malware than other systems. But since they made no effort to allow users to retain their own information, that's why I feel they threw us under the bus. So I am trying to figure out which keyboard will be easier for my huge fingers to type on, or as it seems now, that none will be any easier than my Q10. That's all I'm actually trying to do. But some people find it foolish or worse when I refuse to ever consider their favorite OS because of my desire for privacy and making certain that I won't ever be in violation of HIPAA.

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

[conite]

"Bowing to the masses" and "throwing users under the bus" hardly describes the situation.

After staggering losses, BlackBerry was faced with:

Option 1: Shut device business. Full stop.

Option 2: Shut device business. Take a poke at Android, and settle on offering BlackBerry Android to others who are interested in licencing it.

There was no option 3.

[scubafan]

I suppose that taking a stab at android would have been fine, had they written their "more secure version of Android" so that we retained the ability to deny all of the permissions the app might want while still letting the app to install and run. Same with link. I've seen many people who want a way to backup and store data from their Priv without using cloud.

THAT is something that a lot of us would be impressed by. Then the only problem facing BlackBerry users is either getting the app from either amazon or still from google playstore and finding a particular app that refuses to run without the user giving up every intimate details before you even finish booting up the cell.
Had BlackBerry done these things instead of ******** about my BlackBerry I'd be bragging about it and showing others the useful aspects of it's use and talking about how much better the new os called "The safe & private android"! That's an OS I'm interested in trying!

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

[conite]

I suppose that taking a stab at android would have been fine, had they written their "more secure version of Android" so that we retained the ability to deny all of the permissions the app might want while still letting the app to install and run. Same with link. I've seen many people who want a way to backup and store data from their Priv without using cloud.

THAT is something that a lot of us would be impressed by. Then the only problem facing BlackBerry users is either getting the app from either amazon or still from google playstore and finding a particular app that refuses to run without the user giving up every intimate details before you even finish booting up the cell.
Had BlackBerry done these things instead of ******** about my BlackBerry I'd be bragging about it and showing others the useful aspects of it's use and talking about how much better the new os called "The safe & private android"! That's an OS I'm interested in trying!

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

That's not something BlackBerry could have done.

App developers have sole control whether or not their app will crash without a permission.

[scubafan]

Well, I suppose that is totally true, but I have heard of organizations that have shamed or done other things to convince people not to be sleazy. So unless BlackBerry was specifically ordered not to do it, a version of Android that gave users the level of control we have with BB10 now would be hugely useful! And I know of several apps that still work even without getting any of the permissions it wanted given. And since I already discovered a method of turning the Priv into a mass storage device as far as my Win 7's concerned I was already able to move quite a few files off of it and onto a new folder I created in File Manager I think that it shouldn't take very much effort on BlackBerry to at least make something like the Link so it let's users keep their own data. This way even if the app is on purpose written to require access to unreasonable amounts of data then that would be on them. But to all appearance BlackBerry plain doesn't care about the total loss of privacy that users HAD with the OS that users would have kept if the issue over getting the apps all the newbies wanted. Then it could've been great if managed properly.

But even if they didn't want to be bothered with either trying to get a newer android runtime for us BB10 users, and asked for at least SOME ability for users to keep Google from collecting data they owed it to us to create a basic simple program that did what the BlackBerry link program was supposed to be able to do. In any case, I think that BlackBerry has nothing but contempt and disregard for ALL of the smartphone owners who bought ANY BlackBerry in the last two years and for the rest of time. That's certainly what three of my colleagues say who no longer own any kind of BlackBerry.

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

[conite]

In any case, I think that BlackBerry has nothing but contempt and disregard for ALL of the smartphone owners who bought ANY BlackBerry in the last two years and for the rest of time.

Well that's simply ridiculous. I was playing along for a while, but you just went off the deep end.

Not everyone wants to live in a cave.

If Google Maps is going to destroy me, 99% of the world will be coming with.

[Chuck Finley69]

Well, I suppose that is totally true, but I have heard of organizations that have shamed or done other things to convince people not to be sleazy. So unless BlackBerry was specifically ordered not to do it, a version of Android that gave users the level of control we have with BB10 now would be hugely useful! And I know of several apps that still work even without getting any of the permissions it wanted given. And since I already discovered a method of turning the Priv into a mass storage device as far as my Win 7's concerned I was already able to move quite a few files off of it and onto a new folder I created in File Manager I think that it shouldn't take very much effort on BlackBerry to at least make something like the Link so it let's users keep their own data. This way even if the app is on purpose written to require access to unreasonable amounts of data then that would be on them. But to all appearance BlackBerry plain doesn't care about the total loss of privacy that users HAD with the OS that users would have kept if the issue over getting the apps all the newbies wanted. Then it could've been great if managed properly.

But even if they didn't want to be bothered with either trying to get a newer android runtime for us BB10 users, and asked for at least SOME ability for users to keep Google from collecting data they owed it to us to create a basic simple program that did what the BlackBerry link program was supposed to be able to do. In any case, I think that BlackBerry has nothing but contempt and disregard for ALL of the smartphone owners who bought ANY BlackBerry in the last two years and for the rest of time. That's certainly what three of my colleagues say who no longer own any kind of BlackBerry.

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10

So what do your colleagues own now device-wise?

[misterabrasive]

So what do your colleagues own now device-wise?

Frankly, I don't think he has any colleagues. He spends way too much time here writing long, boring rants.

[scubafan]

Frankly, I'm sorry you have a short attention span. I have gotten quite a bit of very useful help on this site over the past four years, so when I had some major problems that I couldn't get the time of day from BlackBerry despite the warranty I posted as many details as I could in hopes it might spark someone who has had a similar issue who might know how to fix it. Otherwise I just responded to users who didn't see any reason why I wouldn't be thrilled to switch to android. Sorry to bore you, and thanks, I have plenty of friends. Just none of them are using any format BlackBerry any more.

Just my $.02, YMMV ! ;-) sent via my Q10