08-10-13 08:21 AM
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  1. anon2100101's Avatar
    I have never seen a cutomer who wasn't tech savy care about specs. I've stated this time and time again THE MASSES DONT BUY PHONES BASED OFF SPECS. THEY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THEY MEAN. People like us on these tech sites are a different story.Too bad people on here don't undersatand we are not the typical customers we are the acception. Some people don't get it.
    Im fed off by all these "Know-it-better-guys" who know in fact nothing... How naiv you are? Arent you able to empathize with the average and nonreflective consumer? The bulk of consumers didnt think twice (if at all)... The most decisions in consuming are emotional and irrational. Nobody needs a car with 450 HP and max. speed of 290 km/h in a world with speed limits and global warming- BUT we love it! So most women are not impressed by usefulness or so called male points of view- the product has to be pretty, cute or in another way attractive for the so called female points of views... Its always emotional... The pseudo-informed Joe Bob had heard that a 13MP camera is much better than a 8MP one and he "knows", that a quadcore CPU works a loooot faster than a dualcore CPU... He is also at best informed about the Appstores and "knows" that 1.000.000 Apps are better than 150.000... He isnt interested in the fact, that the 1Million Apps containing 145 times a senseless beer-glass-app or similar stuff- he observes 1.000.000 Apps for HIS device (which MUST be faster with its quadcore CPU than a device with a stuffy breathing of a dualcore CPU) He looooves to use the word "Quadcore CPU" in front of the salesman to feign acknowledge and to suggest himselve, that the salesman isnt able to pull him over the barrel... The salesman itself uses a samsung or an iPhone or a htc and is beeing at daggers drawn with BlackBerry cause of all the best known problems of randomly reboots, former APN-Problems and all the dataplan-specifics in the past (he hated to learn for his job) etc.... So Joe Bob appears in the store with its 500 bucks and waits for the confirmation of his hard-earned sciolism... The salesman is (beside his job) a little bit interested in stockprices and remembers (cause of its subliminal sensation that BlackBerry will disappear from market) the constant bad news about sales figures of BlackBerry... Who knows, if BlackBerry will still excist in three years? Who wants a customer with a two or three-year contract, who reappears with clenched fists in the store cause BlackBerry is now renamend in heimei (the new chinese parent company)... Facing all this emotinional and irrational things the salesman will suggest everything but NO BlackBerry and Joe Bob will leave the store with its new virility-supporting quadcore-45MPcamera-12Billion-Apps-device and begins (directly in front of the store) to call his pitful dualcore-friends and to use his expensive dataplan to download 5 of the 145 Beer-glass-apps for the next party....
    Maybe a cliche but the reality... There ist no Blackberry-elitism outside this forum an community! Face this!
    earlym and sa_go like this.
    07-17-13 11:14 AM
  2. letmein13's Avatar
    A message to people who don't think specs sell your phone,

    Why do you need to rethink your position?

    Since the first release of iphones and android phones, we haven't seen many OS updates OR upgrades for iOS and android OS. However, phone hardware is getting better every year. In fact, every new iphone or android phone is slightly better than the old ones in term of hardware while iOS or android OS doesn't get any major update or upgrade in the same period. During these periods, all apps and games for iOS and android OS have been written to take the advantage of improved phone hardware. New phone hardware allows you to do things with your phone that you couldn't do before.

    When you spend 600 or 700 USD or sign a 2 or 3 year contract for a new phone, you would not do it because of your phone's OS. You pay this premium price for improved phone hardware. If you think phone specs are not that important, you need to think again. Every recent iphone or android phone has the same OS with different hardware.

    Furthermore, your phone costs less than mine because of our phone hardware, NOT the OS. Why is the price of q10 and z10 different when both of them have the same OS?

    Yes, phone specs is important and is a factor in determining the sales.
    anon2100101 likes this.
    07-17-13 11:33 AM
  3. Donvald's Avatar
    That's specious reasoning, tell me, when was the last time you pushed a phone with modern day specs (dual core, 2gb ram, etc) to its absolute limit? Never because nothing that we do on a phone so far even requires such robust specs, I'm not saying the A10 specs are cutting edge by any means but they will carry the phone easily for the next two years whilst providing the user a smooth experience.
    Many here with experiences either only with Blackberry devices or mid-tier Android devices will not know, sure. But during the course of a contract - we're talking a long time in technology, consumers will see at least a couple of OS updates, with more hardware demanding software made for devices coming out then.

    You can't look at a device and judge it by what it can be used for today, but need to look ahead at what it can do in two years time. Will it be limited? What would limit it? Hardware.

    Anyone who has bought a new computer, DVD, microwave, TV will have done this exercise according to their budget. Especially more so with devices that play such important roles in our lives.
    07-17-13 11:38 AM
  4. earlym's Avatar
    "Emtunc", I agree. Especially when it comes to camera. The more MP's the better (in the mind of the consumer). Who wants to have 8 when they can have 16. This is an uphill battle for BB since Samsung is sinking tons of $$$ in advertising.

    For example, my sister loves our BB Z10's. She's about to upgrade and her/hubby are considering Samsungs for no other reason that they think Blackberry is "something" other than, with no real substantiation. She goes on about the television commercials and "voila". She'll buy the S3 or S4 for sure.

    She is captured by the "features" and lifestyle benefits of Samsung "As seen on TV". How could I convince her to buy a BB? Can't! People think that there is something "non consumer-ish" about BB although she likes everything that it does. I (and wife) can't compete with $$$ television ads.

    Go BB!
    anon2100101 likes this.
    07-17-13 11:39 AM
  5. Donvald's Avatar
    Were talking about the average consumer here. The normal consumer will see that and laugh. Same this with 720p vs 1080p people are just not educated enough to know or care. But on paper they see something they will go for the highest specs. Which is completely normal. Who doesn't want something that is bigger, faster and better on paper? Not to mention they look to what their friends have and take that into consideration ( not blackberrys)
    I disagree with saying that people are not educated enough. They have learned that 'higher numbers mean better' when it comes with technology, because its generally true. The real question is why they consider this to be important. And its not because the sales person tells them so. Its due to previous experiences.
    ajst222 likes this.
    07-17-13 11:39 AM
  6. Donvald's Avatar
    "Emtunc", I agree. Especially when it comes to camera. The more MP's the better (in the mind of the consumer). Who wants to have 8 when they can have 16. This is an uphill battle for BB since Samsung is sinking tons of $$$ in advertising.

    For example, my sister loves our BB Z10's. She's about to upgrade and her/hubby are considering Samsungs for no other reason that they think Blackberry is "something" other than, with no real substantiation. She goes on about the television commercials and "voila". She'll buy the S3 or S4 for sure.

    She is captured by the "features" and lifestyle benefits of Samsung "As seen on TV". How could I convince her to buy a BB? Can't! People think that there is something "non consumer-ish" about BB although she likes everything that it does. I (and wife) can't compete with $$$ television ads.

    Go BB!
    Television ads are only part of the picture. They don't make people have a good experience. If the product is crap, its crap and after the initial purchase there will be limited repeat business. The Mobile industry is all about repeat business and that means giving people a satisfying experience enough so to make them come back when their contract ends.

    BB have an abysmal image due to the poor experience their mobile phones have given many consumers. First they have to get their product right, then advertise it. The Z10 and BB10 has many faults that people rightly won't tolerate in this day and age. The pricing is unreasonable and modelling uninspiring.

    To imply that people are simply awestruck by ads by competitors and ignore a superior product because of subtle brainwashing is false. BB is not fit for a competitive market at the current time. No adverts can change that.
    07-17-13 11:51 AM
  7. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    I'm gonna go with a different angle here. What if BlackBerry is still not going for the iPhone android user per say. What if they are investing into getting more BlackBerry users to move up? The one thing that BlackBerry doesn't have right now is word of mouth. The message isn't good or bad. It doesn't exist in the US at least. So by coming out with some devices that won't exactly blow the lid off the can it will at the least sell and I think build momentum. You see if we get enough of the faithful to move to bb10 then we will have enough to entice the big name apps. Then we can go for the masses.

    Just a thought.

    Posted via CB10
    To be perfectly honest, if they're going after current BB users a 5" phablet would be a horrible way to do it. Have you seen the way people bash 5" phones around here? Until we heard about the A10 of course, then it magically became awesome.
    anon2100101 likes this.
    07-17-13 12:24 PM
  8. tomsobon's Avatar
    720p, 8mp... still cant believe it!
    anon2100101 likes this.
    07-17-13 12:27 PM
  9. suprmanx7's Avatar
    Im a loyal fan but i agree. The average person doesn't understand.
    07-17-13 12:53 PM
  10. Jonesy1966's Avatar
    The first BlackBerry I ever had was a 9000. I got it because of how balanced it was in my hand and because of its amazing PK. Not once did I consider its specs, in fact to this day I have no idea of the specs of any of my phones, nor do I care to find out. If it works it works. And quite frankly my personal and business peers are exactly the same, a good friend just bought a Q10 and I bet if I ask her she`d shrug and not care.
    07-17-13 02:02 PM
  11. Jahmal A's Avatar
    In our everyday experiences, bigger, faster, and more is deemed better. Bigger house, better; faster car, better; more money, better. It's natural that people would think that the higher the specs, the better the result.

    I believe people willing to buy any technologically advanced product has some sense of what's going on, whether it be from ads, research, or word of mouth. People on here thinking that the average consumer is from the 19th century and has no idea what's going on is being a little too condescending on the everyday consumer. I wouldn't say that they know what everything on the spec sheet means, but they may recognize key values and words about these specs.

    Mind you these people are buying smartphones, not regular cell phones. I'm not saying everyone buying a smartphone takes full advantage of what it can do, but there is a reason why someone would be choosing a smartphone over a regular cellphone. Someone in that mindset would be looking for something technologically advanced be it for camera capabilities, video chat, email, web browsing, media streaming. They would acknowledge the specs that would presumable dictate that the device does it better than the competition. As a loose analogy, people buying cars looking at specs that satisfy their needs: some want the best fuel economy (spec: MPG/ L/100km, some want acceleration (spec: hp/lbft, 0-60 secs), some want to just lug around groceries (spec: trunk/cargo volume).

    What BlackBerry needs to understand is that the average consumer is not an engineer. Engineers would like to do things at the outmost efficiency to optimize cost and performance. BlackBerry seems to like design their products like that. There is nothing wrong with that, if you are only catering to a niche market. People that are deep in any technology enriched field should know that bigger, faster, and more doesn't necessarily mean better. There are dual-core processors that can beat quad-cores out there. 2 GB of RAM of a high transfer rate is better than a slow rate 4 GB of RAM. What is often ignored is the minor details assoociated with these specs (eg., transfer rate, type of RAM, how the processor(s) handle the calculations).

    If BlackBerry wants to focus on the business-like consumer that wants a generally overall good experience with minimal excess, then they would have to accept that they cannot sell in the large numbers that they did before. I personally don't think they will ever reach those numbers again because that was a result of BBM trend that ensnared the world.

    I would be lying if I said I don't pay attention to specs. I do pay attention. But I am not one that just goes after the highest spec that my money can buy just for the sake of having it. I look at what specs are needed for what I want to do and then just add a little extra as a cushion for when software advances and becomes more resource intensive. I look for quality components over faster components. Some components have the highest spec but are overstressed and fail much faster than the average spec components of the time. Specs on the surface only tell a portion of the story. The experience that the specs provide is what's most important.

    After all my babbling, I will say that the A10 is stepping into Android territory. And the Android territory is all about specs. If BlackBerry doesn't want to play the specs game, then BlackBerry will have to somehow demonstrate how the A10 is of greater value to the customer either by a better price point or some unique experience. Marketing has their work cut out for them, regardless of what the specs for this device will be.
    07-17-13 02:06 PM
  12. Gekko's Avatar
    i think specs matter when you are comparing devices of the same OS - ex. Dell vs. HP, Samsung vs. HTC, etc. i don't think specs matter as much when you are comparing devices with OS X, OS Y, and OS Z. OS trumps specs and drives the sale. OS is primary is the decision making - hardware specs are secondary! what does this all mean? specs won't matter much in the grand scheme of things when it comes to A10 sales vs. outside competitors. the unwashed masses buy the OS and the OS drives the sale!
    app_Developer likes this.
    07-17-13 03:11 PM
  13. Homo Erectus's Avatar
    Why waste more money
    07-17-13 03:19 PM
  14. Homo Erectus's Avatar
    BlackBerry is crap .................................................. ........
    07-17-13 03:20 PM
  15. Dan Lam's Avatar
    i don't think these proposed specs will make a difference in terms of sales in the grand scheme of things. 720p vs 1080p and Dual Core vs. Quad Core won't make a big difference in sales for BB.

    OS trumps specs. i don't think a specs bump will drive new sales away from iPhone/Android to BB and on the flip side i don't think that a lack of a bump will drive many customers away from BB that want a large display BB device. the bump or lack of a bump will not sway many people either way IMO.
    This is the problem. The general public right now DO NOT want a Blackberry device.
    Why does this concept seem so hard to understand?

    Blackberry has a grim reputation right now. It cannot afford same luxuries as Apple or Samsung getting by with "just enough" specs. Did Apple or Samsung get to where they were by offering dated devices? No. Apple took risks in software that gave them a huge advantage and early market capitalization, and Samsung joined the race with premium spec'd devices.

    If Blackberry wants to regain any sort of market share, it needs to first do something radical that will change the public perception of the company from a dying one, to one that could seriously compete with its competitors. BB10 is great, but how many people will know that if they don't have any reasons to try it?

    That's right, not many.
    sunsetblow likes this.
    07-17-13 03:45 PM
  16. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    I disagree with saying that people are not educated enough. They have learned that 'higher numbers mean better' when it comes with technology, because its generally true. The real question is why they consider this to be important. And its not because the sales person tells them so. Its due to previous experiences.
    Everyone can count higher and higher but they have no idea what the difference is meaning they aren't educated enough to know? You just proved my point really...
    07-17-13 03:49 PM
  17. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    This is what the A10 should be like!! This guy stole the words right out of my mouth

    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...1/#post8841550

    I'd like it and thank it 1,000,000 times. Definitely the best thread on these forums at the moment.
    anon2100101 likes this.
    07-17-13 03:53 PM
  18. h20work's Avatar
    So if specs don't matter on BlackBerry, why isn't the pb running bb10? Why didn't my 9530&9550 get upgraded to bb6 and 7?

    Bb10.1 runs fine on 2gbs of ram , but what about 10.3 or 10.4? Forced to upgrade devices again to get those updates? Let alone bb11.
    07-17-13 04:01 PM
  19. najawah's Avatar
    I happen to agree with "ofutur". We, the Crackberry Nation, know more about BB than any average layperson and fully understand the value of BB10 and the future of mobility. I live on this site to gather the most up-to-date information on this platform. Yes, I will purchase the A10. However, the point of when compared, side/side to other offerings, especially with the "reputation" or "negativity" of the BB brand in the back of their minds, no they will not choose BB. We chose because of a series of promises that we know BB will fulfill. Others are not so likely to do this. They want their app experiences and they want it now.

    I don't believe BB will fall on their face. They will then begin advertising the larger phone and we'll see migration trickle across the lines. Also, we have no idea what is awaiting BB in the corporate space. Corporations are evaluating BB's offerings now, but some have not taken a bite yet. We'll see what shakes out in the next 2-3 quarters.

    Go BB!
    I agree with your 1st statement- We bb fans will buy buy BB. I for 1 wont . i cant see the sense of a 5" Z10. but thats me, ppl like you would. that aside. the general public wont in sufficient numbers to make a significant impact. anything bb will do is all speculation (marketing etc.) of late they seem not to have a clue as to what to do to attract customers. Theres lots they could do to get new customers, not us recycle users but real customers but we'll just have to wait and see.
    07-17-13 04:26 PM
  20. sinsin07's Avatar
    I have never seen a cutomer who wasn't tech savy care about specs. I've stated this time and time again THE MASSES DONT BUY PHONES BASED OFF SPECS. THEY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THEY MEAN. People like us on these tech sites are a different story.Too bad people on here don't undersatand we are not the typical customers we are the acception. Some people don't get it.
    You can say whatever you want. It's the internet. Just because you put it in caps doesn't lend it any more credibility than changing the color of the text. Means nothing. Fact is "THE MASSES" indicates a large number of people. How many of "THE MASSES" do you know?

    People learn about specs from experience. This could explain why the adoption rate on Z10 and Q10 is low. Past experience with Blackberries.

    Based on the above silly hypothesis, the only reason people left BB was Apps and Marketing.
    Specs had nothing to do with it /s
    Last edited by sinsin07; 07-17-13 at 05:17 PM.
    07-17-13 05:01 PM
  21. Gekko's Avatar
    This is the problem. The general public right now DO NOT want a Blackberry device.
    Why does this concept seem so hard to understand?

    Blackberry has a grim reputation right now. It cannot afford same luxuries as Apple or Samsung getting by with "just enough" specs. Did Apple or Samsung get to where they were by offering dated devices? No. Apple took risks in software that gave them a huge advantage and early market capitalization, and Samsung joined the race with premium spec'd devices.

    If Blackberry wants to regain any sort of market share, it needs to first do something radical that will change the public perception of the company from a dying one, to one that could seriously compete with its competitors. BB10 is great, but how many people will know that if they don't have any reasons to try it?

    That's right, not many.
    bumped specs won't save BB.
    07-17-13 05:32 PM
  22. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    bumped specs won't save BB.
    Subpar specs won't help either...

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-13 05:59 PM
  23. Gekko's Avatar
    "Larry Page lives by the gospel of 10x. Most companies would be happy to improve a product by 10 percent. Not the CEO and cofounder of Google. The way Page sees it, a 10 percent improvement means that you’re basically doing the same thing as everybody else. You probably won’t fail spectacularly, but you are guaranteed not to succeed wildly. That’s why Page expects his employees to create products and services that are 10 times better than the competition. That means he isn’t satisfied with discovering a couple of hidden efficiencies or tweaking code to achieve modest gains. Thousand-percent improvement requires rethinking problems entirely, exploring the edges of what’s technically possible, and having a lot more fun in the process."

    BB needed to deliver a product that was 10X better than the competition. this is what it takes to disrupt markets. they didn't deliver. a "me too" product or a spec bump won't do it.
    07-17-13 06:24 PM
  24. Yodha Sasmita's Avatar
    rite but the best way is to educate the sales staff and give em more bonuses if selling bb phones over others.....
    07-17-13 06:32 PM
  25. Gekko's Avatar
    Subpar specs won't help either...

    Posted via CB10
    specs are moot at this point. it's all about OS and ecosystem. the die has been cast - BB is doomed.
    07-17-13 06:32 PM
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