08-10-13 08:21 AM
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  1. berklon's Avatar
    this is easier said than done because BB is caught between a rock and a hard place. they are at such a disadvantage with Samsung, Apple et al because they don't have the same volumes, economies of scale, and purchasing power with suppliers - so it's not a level playing field. BB can not squeeze suppliers for cheaper parts - in fact they must pay more! so this means that BB must charge the same (if not more) than competitors - and still take a hit on margins! and if they price under competitors - the margins will REALLY take a hit and wall street will crush them even further.
    I agree. This is all due to the situation Blackberry put themselves in by being very complacent all these years. They've dug themselves so deep in the hole by falling behind the competition, that their brand is dirt right now - and it's impossible get people interested again without something game-changing.

    How do they get people to purchase their phones at a cheaper price than the competition's better phones, while still making a decent profit - while trying to catch-up with their competitors in specs and ecosystem? It's nearly impossible to do for a company that doesn't have deep pockets.
    07-17-13 09:33 AM
  2. Nathan Bael's Avatar
    sorry, but there's nothing magical about BB10.
    Magical? No. But overall BB10 has some great features (hopefully patented) that the other phone OS's do not. I think I would have rather BBRY bought WebOS than QNX, or maybe bought both. But either way, what we have is pretty good.
    07-17-13 09:34 AM
  3. Jforssblad's Avatar
    That's bull! This is going to be my first blackberry! I haven't been interested before, but since BB10 I just have to get one :-)

    Skickat frn min ST27i via Tapatalk 2
    07-17-13 09:36 AM
  4. Gekko's Avatar
    Magical? No. But overall BB10 has some great features (hopefully patented) that the other phone OS's do not. I think I would have rather BBRY bought WebOS than QNX, or maybe bought both. But either way, what we have is pretty good.
    i posted this a few days ago -

    hindsight is 20/20 but BB should have bought Palm in 2010. HP paid $1.2B back then. BB's market cap was $25B at the time today it's $5B so they probably could have afforded the $1.2B. they could have taken webOS and customized and tweaked it and used it for BB10. this would have been a modern, web-ready, touch-ready, virtual "turnkey OS" and would have gotten them a decent competitor YEARS earlier and saved billions in wasted goodwill, time, opportunity, and R&D.
    Nathan Bael likes this.
    07-17-13 09:38 AM
  5. mmcpher's Avatar
    sorry, but there's nothing magical about BB10.
    I want competitive, not magical and BB10 filled that bill so far, at least if you keep up with the leaks. But it's not lapping the field. Many people have had the experience of buying a new, well designed but relatively under spec'ed device that purrs at first but later bogs down when new apps come out that are optimized for better specs.

    You need a cushion to allow for development. I used to hear that I overbought on specs but not only did this allow me to run Cad-like software when the need unexpectedly arose, it added years to the useful life over the device which could survive and be compatible for several generations of OS's.

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-13 09:38 AM
  6. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    this is easier said than done because BB is caught between a rock and a hard place. they are at such a disadvantage with Samsung, Apple et al because they don't have the same volumes, economies of scale, and purchasing power with suppliers - so it's not a level playing field. BB can not squeeze suppliers for cheaper parts - in fact they must pay more! so this means that BB must charge the same (if not more) than competitors - and still take a hit on margins! and if they price under competitors - the margins will REALLY take a hit and wall street will crush them even further.
    Have you missed the memo of BlackBerry having margins of 40% on BB10 phones in the first quarter after launch ?

    Nokia operates on half of that...

    Posted via CB10
    agp101 likes this.
    07-17-13 09:39 AM
  7. Gekko's Avatar
    That's bull! This is going to be my first blackberry! I haven't been interested before, but since BB10 I just have to get one :-)

    Skickat frn min ST27i via Tapatalk 2
    no love for your hometown team Nokia?
    07-17-13 09:40 AM
  8. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    no love for your hometown team Nokia?
    I loved Nokia so much, before they switched to WP.

    I had the different communicators, I had the first Nokia with Wap (7110) I had different N and E series phones.

    But WP must be the most horrible OS I have used in the 18+ years of mobile phone usage...

    Yes, I know you didn't asked me that, but Nokia's downfall and switch to WP was the reason I went to BlackBerry in the first place.

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-13 09:44 AM
  9. Gekko's Avatar
    Have you missed the memo of BlackBerry having margins of 40% on BB10 phones in the first quarter after launch ?

    Nokia operates on half of that...

    Posted via CB10
    they were target margins and they have obviously not been sustainable over time as you are seeing with low sales and now price cuts. the free market just slapped down those pipe dreams. they might have got those margins from the few early adopters but no way can you extrapolate that to being anything but very short term. launch margins do not necessarily equal sustainable margins.
    07-17-13 09:45 AM
  10. Gekko's Avatar
    I loved Nokia so much, before they switched to WP.

    I had the different communicators, I had the first Nokia with Wap (7110) I had different N and E series phones.

    But WP must be the most horrible OS I have used in the 18+ years of mobile phone usage...

    Yes, I know you didn't asked me that, but Nokia's downfall and switch to WP was the reason I went to BlackBerry in the first place.

    Posted via CB10
    well sheesh if you are coming from old Nokia i would think almost any other modern OS looks good!
    ajst222 likes this.
    07-17-13 09:47 AM
  11. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    well sheesh if you are coming from old Nokia i would think almost any other modern OS looks good!
    I came from Nokia to the OG Droid.

    Had an iPhone 4 for a certain amount of time.

    But I didn't like it, so I switched to the Torch 9810 when it launched.

    And now I have the Z10 since it launch.

    But I am no stranger to the other OS'.
    I have friends/colleagues and family members with a plethora of different phones.

    I am also the one who is asked what phone/notebook/headphones (continue endlessly) my family/friends/colleagues should buy, because I have a pretty good market overview.

    I could have bought the S4 at launch, instead of the Z, but I don't like Android and Google's business model.

    Apple is Apple.... When BlackBerry goes out of business, I'll probably buy an iPhone.

    So, maybe I didn't give you enough informations, but I am not really coming from a Nokia, it's just that a decade ago, I really liked Nokia.

    With Windows Phone, they completely killed the brand for me.

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-13 10:06 AM
  12. skelleytech's Avatar
    The 5" OLED screen is nice over the 4.2" of the Z10 and looks like the battery will be better at 2800mAh over the Z10's 1800mAh but I wont be spending the money for those two improvements. As for OS 10.2, I'll just wait for an update on the Z10. 10.1.0.2354 works GREAT for me!
    07-17-13 10:08 AM
  13. Daniel Montanaro's Avatar
    HTC One has 4 megapixel camera and still it is called one of the best Android phones ever.

    A10 has DEDICATED, I repeat again DEDICATED quad core GPU. This phone will be gaming mobile beast. This phone will be true Playstation on the go.

    Marketing is the key here. if i was working at Blackberry and had to run advertising campaign i would make sure that anyone who saw A10 ad would never forget about quad core GPU. I would send out more blackberry employees to educate store stuff especially in USA about this new phone features. Finally I would make sure to get at least couple of A10 exclusive games with jaw dropping visuals utilizing GPU quad core power.. I tell you Samsung and Apple would be caught with their pants down!

    Blackberry is really good phone with unique features. It is truly good phone to run business from on the go. The problem is that Blackberry has done poor job (especially in USA) communicating advantages of BB10 phones.

    Blackberry should look for different type of employees. It might sound sound crazy but perhaps hard core blackberry fans with some crazy out of this world ideas should be the one working at Blackberry. Not uptight employees thinking about their bonuses too much.
    I have to agree that marketing is key. Anyone old enough to remember the super nintendo vs. sega genesis rivalry, would remember sega's commercials about "blast processing". The sega genesis spec wise was essentially inferior to the SNES in almost every way, except the processor. SNES had a ~3MHz processor while the genesis had a ~7MHz. Sega found the one advantage the Genesis had and exploited it, and it worked.
    07-17-13 10:23 AM
  14. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    they were target margins and they have obviously not been sustainable over time as you are seeing with low sales and now price cuts. the free market just slapped down those pipe dreams. they might have got those margins from the few early adopters but no way can you extrapolate that to being anything but very short term. launch margins do not necessarily equal sustainable margins.
    I agree with you on that, as we saw instantly in the next quarter, BB10 phones lost about 3% on their margins for BlackBerry.

    But 37% is still on a completely different level than Nokia's 20% on Lumias.

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-13 10:25 AM
  15. letmein13's Avatar
    Is A10 good for movies and music?

    a 5" screen without HD doesn't look compelling to me.
    07-17-13 10:30 AM
  16. shupor's Avatar
    I have never seen a cutomer who wasn't tech savy care about specs. I've stated this time and time again
    This couldn't be further from the truth. Used to sell digital cameras for living and all customers cared about were the brand name and specs. It irks me just remembering how many times i had to explain what impact megapixels had on their image quality to every single non-tech savvy customer.
    All they wanted is megapixels
    Blacklatino and agp101 like this.
    07-17-13 10:31 AM
  17. RECOOL's Avatar
    This couldn't be further from the truth. Used to sell digital cameras for living and all customers cared about were the brand name and specs. It irks me just remembering how many times i had to explain what impact megapixels had on their image quality to every single non-tech savvy customer.
    All they wanted is megapixels
    This is very true thats why kiosk test area's are important.Thats why marketing has to be on point and good.Branding wise BB is dead in US. Rest of the world its actually fine.The awareness however on new devices not good enough.BBM going multiplatform will be hugely important in re-branding BB.The boost from that will be interesting.
    Blacklatino and shupor like this.
    07-17-13 10:44 AM
  18. hallda01's Avatar
    THE MASSES DONT BUY PHONES BASED OFF SPECS. THEY HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THEY MEAN.
    1. Yeah, but when they see one number bigger than another number on those little cards next to the phone, they're going to assume it's better.

    2. Smartphone store staff sell phones to people who don't care about specs. Often specs are the only thing the staff knows about a phone. The only phones where specs don't matter are iPhones, and it's only because they have the rep to back it up. BlackBerry doesn't have the track record to sell phones without the best specs.
    07-17-13 10:54 AM
  19. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Is A10 good for movies and music?

    a 5" screen without HD doesn't look compelling to me.
    720p is also HD... if you weren't aware...

    Sent from my BB10 smartphone.
    07-17-13 10:55 AM
  20. madman0141's Avatar
    Then they should properly train sales staff in retail stores help educate the end consumer about BlackBerry 10

    Posted via CB10
    That would work but they just get the people who will work the cheapest.
    07-17-13 10:56 AM
  21. redrum0515's Avatar
    Yup i would. Im guessing you are reffering to android as they are the only OS with phones that cheap.. I have a question for you are you comfortable paying $300 less for an inferior OS that has massive security flaws that are exploited by those apps everyone brags about?

    wow. its funny to read comments like this. Ok. just for ****s and giggles could you tell us how many phones have been infected with all the android malware? has it drained anyones bank yet? or are you just trying to make people think the sky is falling without bb security?

    and other then security companies with lots to gain..has anyone else found malware yet? are people freaking out? or are they still activating more androids in a day then bb does in a month?
    07-17-13 11:00 AM
  22. Jahcure's Avatar
    Read the first couple of posts and skipped to the end.

    Threads like this make me laugh. The damn device isn't even out yet. It's been spotted and the specs rumoured.

    Without going through ALL of the posts in this thread; did ANYONE happen to mention that the rumoured specs are from a spec-sheet that was released in May? It's possible that the real specs will have been upgraded. Granted the track record for that isn't good, but who knows?

    Specs are an important part of a phone, but a lot of them are buzz-words at best. I recall numerous threads of this exact nature about the rumoured specs for the Z10 before it was released... Then it got released, and (mentioning the rear facing camera in particular) people started taking pictures. Lo and behold, beautiful pictures everywhere all coming from the camera on the Z10.

    As for the CPU... Android's NEED a quad-core because the OS is such a resource-hog. BlackBerry only uses dual-core because that's all it needs. Haven't met a BB10 that is sluggish.

    Also haven't met an Android user that's running cpu-intensive calculations on their smart-phone.
    Finally someone realize why android plays the spec war and why no other os plays it. Android is a resource hog plain and simple. It's high specs or bust for Android os.


    Posted via CB10
    07-17-13 11:01 AM
  23. bpmg4u's Avatar
    The funny thing is; there are a lot of correct points arguing opposite sides of the issue.

    YES, most people either don't research enough and many rely too much on it with the greater majority of both not understanding what most of these mean.

    YES, it's true that "sales people" REALLY want you buy non-Blackberry devices - when I committed to a plan with our carrier 21 months ago, I INSISTED on a Torch 9810, but the sales person kept trying to push me to a Samsung until I asked sternly whether he DID or did NOT want to make a sale. But EVERYTHING from apps to camera-pixels (front & back), to processors and ram WILL be used to influence buyers. And those who DO make up their own mind are even more vulnerable to "specs" because usability, functionality and ease of use cannot be objectively measured.

    YES - at "some point" the maufacturer MUST pull the plug on revising specs and commit to manufacturing. At THAT point the device becomes functionally obsolete, because the next-newer developed competitor WILL be better equipped. Nokia proved it with the 41 mp camera on its newest phone, but no-one believes that THAT resolution is realistically manageable (can you imagine the size of memory card needed to take 20 pictures??)

    What is ALWAYS overlooked is the COMBINATION of factors that make the specs relevant.

    Would you rather have a "1000 HP Bugatti Veyron II" or a "170 HP Honda Civic?"
    Sure, we know the answer. BOTH cars have 4 wheels, a nice interior and WILL get you from "A" to "B."
    But your family of 4, plus Rover, won't get to the beach in the $2 million rocket, and between sucking the gas tank dry in 8 minutes at 400km/h and the $10,000 speeding ticket, it's easy to see that there's a LOT more to straight-up "Specs" than meets the eye.

    TOO many other factors will affect how a very-well spec'd device (car, phone, etc.) perform in real-world conditions, inlc. user knowledge & skill.

    They WILL, however, be leverage to those who'll claim "this processor's faster, has 2x the memory and will handle future OS upgrades easier" than this A/Z/Qxx which came out with older, slower, shallower equipment levels.

    Finally, some have written that we're just complaining about "rumoured" specs; well, complaining "after" the phone hits stores is also stupid. The time to let BBRY know to go big ot stay home IS RIGHT NOW.
    Sure, rumours are designed to keep competitors guessing, but they ALL know what chips (etc.) are available from whom and usable-how "by production time" so that's little advantage. There's some truth in rumours and it's up to users to let BBRY know what THEY would accept and WILL BUY.

    Just my 2 cents worth from our penny-less country.

    Cheers & Keep Moving!

    You guys are arguing a lot over specs that are nothing more than rumours :-/ Maybe wait with all the doom and gloom until BB actually releases the final specs :/

    JR
    First, many people are saying masses don't care about specs. In fact, most people these days are quite technically savvy and those who don't have any clue ask their family and friends who have clue about these things. Bottom line is that Blackberry is behind and as much BB fans say Android sucks, it's not that bad at all. In fact, that's what Apple fan boys have been saying all along about Android and now Android is spreading like weed. Blackberry needs to get some hardware vendors on board if needs to survive and should focus on software side and may be only high end hardware devices and by that I mean really high end. Come on Blackberry, give me a reason to buy BB10 device. Put something which no one else has, may be 4 gig of ram or 15 mega pixel camera. With current specs for A10 , I will rather go for Lumia 1020 with whopping 41 megapixel camera.
    07-17-13 11:01 AM
  24. Blacklatino's Avatar
    This is very true thats why kiosk test area's are important.Thats why marketing has to be on point and good.Branding wise BB is dead in US. Rest of the world its actually fine.The awareness however on new devices not good enough.BBM going multiplatform will be hugely important in re-branding BB.The boost from that will be interesting.
    Been reading the comments and some are very interesting. Z10 hasn't sold very well, and the Q is stumbling out the gate. Ok, so carriers are lowering the price for BlackBerries and the same with the iPhone and Androids. Yes, it's competition for better sales and happens all the time. The difference is, BlackBerry really needs to move units. If nothing changes, what will entice others to want the upcoming BlackBerry? Sure, you can't please everyone, but, for sales, you have to please.....somebody. Unfortunately, the CS is going to continue to push what is selling right now.
    07-17-13 11:05 AM
  25. undone's Avatar
    Too funny...its all about Marketing. You need someone that can sell ice cubes to Eskimos, plain and simple. That is how it is done. Whether you like Apple products or not, they sold the ice cubes and there are millions of Eskimos buying.
    07-17-13 11:11 AM
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