08-10-13 08:21 AM
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  1. Jahmal A's Avatar
    I agree with OP 100%. But don't try to convince the people here on CB. Quite frankly they actually think that just because they'd buy it through their fanfare that the rest of consumers will as well. You know, just like the z10 and q10 :roll eyes:

    CB is a pretty blinded community. To be fair though, all mobile nations forums are blinded to a certain degree. It just feels so awesome to be platform agnostic though. People like me see the reality.
    In regards to the CB community being blinded...I don't think that is a fair assessment. I read these forums everyday, and I will tell you that majority of the posts or forum topics are praising BlackBerry. Granted there are people who are overly optimistic, but there are also people here that are over pessimistic (and sometimes plan miserable and angry). There are far too many generalizations being made on mobile tech forums (especially CB and this thread!). Many of the people that make pessimistic posts aren't doing it out of hate but to educate and to inform BlackBerry of what the position of consumers are. CB is not filled with BlackBerry Lemmings.
    07-16-13 02:20 PM
  2. Adam Zeis's Avatar
    Grammar police.
    BlackBerry is about to fall flat on their faces with the Z30-hl2421.jpg
    07-16-13 02:28 PM
  3. ajst222's Avatar
    I'll try it slowly, to repeat it again:

    Apple has an image of providing quality products, and they are perceived as an innovator.
    That peope are willing to pay much more for an Apple device, is proof of that.
    They get something for their money, if not, they wouldn't keep their devices or upgrade to another Apple one.

    BlackBerry on the other hand, has an image of providing the exact opposite of quality.
    The Storm, The PlayBook firesale, the lacklustre adoption of BB10 thus far, must be proof enough.

    Why are people on CB trying to compare BlackBerry with Apple?
    Apple plays in a league on their own, and they are highly diversified, compared to BBRY.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes. And in order for BlackBerry to turn that around, they can't release the A10 with worse specs (or even equal specs) compared to the competition. It needs better specs in order for it to actually stand out to consumers. Yeah, some argue that the experience is what matters. But how will consumers know what the experience is if the device doesn't stand out enough for them to choose it over an iPhone or Android device...both of which have good reputations and are popular
    DJM626 and agp101 like this.
    07-16-13 02:31 PM
  4. benmhall's Avatar
    Thank you for mentioning this. I'm astonished that it took three pages of posts for someone to point this out.
    07-16-13 02:33 PM
  5. Jahmal A's Avatar
    I'll try it slowly, to repeat it again:

    Apple has an image of providing quality products, and they are perceived as an innovator.
    That peope are willing to pay much more for an Apple device, is proof of that.
    They get something for their money, if not, they wouldn't keep their devices or upgrade to another Apple one.

    BlackBerry on the other hand, has an image of providing the exact opposite of quality.
    The Storm, The PlayBook firesale, the lacklustre adoption of BB10 thus far, must be proof enough.

    Why are people on CB trying to compare BlackBerry with Apple?
    Apple plays in a league on their own, and they are highly diversified, compared to BBRY.

    Posted via CB10
    Yea Apple and BlackBerry are in different leagues. But that doesn't meant BlackBerry doesn't share aspects with Apple. Apple for ages has been selling products for a premium price. But that premium price resulted in software that optimized the use of the hardware. Everything worked hand in hand. Products less likely to fail or crash. BB10 devices are similar to iPhone in this regard, hardware and software designed and optimized to work hand in hand.

    Android devices are similar to how Windows PCs were/are, hardware designed to work with a specific software but must be overpowered to limit the amount of bottlenecks in operation. Granted that manufacturers tweak Andriod to work with their devices better, but many smartphones have to be twice as powerful as the iPhone to have similar performance as an iPhone.
    07-16-13 02:51 PM
  6. DStLouis's Avatar
    Apparently you're not been on here lately
    What I was trying to say is that Joe Schmoe, walking in a shop after having heard a bit about mobiles, after having seen mates with Android phones, after talking to sales reps, won't necessarily pay $300 extra for that phone when he could have the same hardware from a company he's heard isn't dying and which has millions of apps.
    You, as a BlackBerry user, might be perfectly happy with a bigger phone, running the OS you love, but you will be a minority.
    Well I agree with you, and that is a major sales problems for BlackBerry. Normal customers don't really know what they are purchasing (not to say have no idea) ...so most of them are just comparing specs and purchased the one that his apparently better for the price.
    But that,s what the OP is saying. And unfortunatly the vast majority of sales person are not pushing on BlackBerry side and simply did'nt take time to explain where BB is better, regarless of the price.
    Keep in mind that QNX architecture is a lot more robust and powerfull then any other phone architecture; QNX is not slowing down when an App is demanding a lot of processing capacities. (You check back the BBM Stress test done by CrackBerry, even with a constant "attact action" under BBM (more then 2000 contacts request within few minutes) (IM, BBM Voice, and even video call), the phone remain smooth with no lagging). So quad core is more likely not a requirement for OS10 whereas it might be required for an Android device in order to compensate.. BB OS is not impacted by the number of apps you have installed, whereas Android is... And we cant keep going..

    Normal Joe Bob cannot be aware of all these plus values, sales person rarely mentionned that to customers, ..so Joe Bob buy something else.

    Maybe you have already see that article: Forget to phone, it's the OS that really count
    BlackBerry 10: Forget about the phone - it's the OS that really counts | ZDNet
    07-16-13 02:52 PM
  7. eBud's Avatar
    Then they should properly train sales staff in retail stores help educate the end consumer about BlackBerry 10

    Posted via CB10
    In my experience the sales rep has predetermined that the phone he has in his pocket is the phone the consumer should buy. Sales reps at my at&t store had no hands on experience or training with the Z10 when I walked in to buy 2 of them, yet he did his best to talk me out of purchasing a device he knew nothing about, except for rumor and bad press. Front line sales people have not helped BB at all and actually steer confused or novice buyers to the cell they would have for themselves.
    scorpiodsu likes this.
    07-16-13 02:52 PM
  8. El Platanero's Avatar
    I'm gonna go with a different angle here. What if BlackBerry is still not going for the iPhone android user per say. What if they are investing into getting more BlackBerry users to move up? The one thing that BlackBerry doesn't have right now is word of mouth. The message isn't good or bad. It doesn't exist in the US at least. So by coming out with some devices that won't exactly blow the lid off the can it will at the least sell and I think build momentum. You see if we get enough of the faithful to move to bb10 then we will have enough to entice the big name apps. Then we can go for the masses.

    Just a thought.

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 03:16 PM
  9. fragment137's Avatar
    Read the first couple of posts and skipped to the end.

    Threads like this make me laugh. The damn device isn't even out yet. It's been spotted and the specs rumoured.

    Without going through ALL of the posts in this thread; did ANYONE happen to mention that the rumoured specs are from a spec-sheet that was released in May? It's possible that the real specs will have been upgraded. Granted the track record for that isn't good, but who knows?

    Specs are an important part of a phone, but a lot of them are buzz-words at best. I recall numerous threads of this exact nature about the rumoured specs for the Z10 before it was released... Then it got released, and (mentioning the rear facing camera in particular) people started taking pictures. Lo and behold, beautiful pictures everywhere all coming from the camera on the Z10.

    As for the CPU... Android's need a quad-core because the OS is such a resource-hog. BlackBerry only uses dual-core because that's all it needs. Haven't met a BB10 that is sluggish.

    Also haven't met an Android user that's running cpu-intensive calculations on their smart-phone.
    07-16-13 03:27 PM
  10. Jeremy Bivens's Avatar
    Although I don't think specs are as important as people make them out to be, I do believe that if you're going to do it, you should go ahead & do it big. Otherwise, you will be bombarded with reviews and posts about how lackluster your product is. If its not 1080p, they'll say "it should have been", if its not quad core, they'll complain about that. On one hand, I think maybe blackberry should consider going ahead and nipping it in the bud. On the other, I wonder "Why make it quad core if it's only using dual..." and us, economics students will know: driving up costs without increasing benefit will lower efficency!

    Just my thoughts...

    *Sidenote, ppl buy iPhones and Galaxy phones not so much for the specs, but b/c of the track record. iPhone is a good phone & a top phone. If you want a phone that will be around for the duration of your contract without regretting the purchase, you will get it. Galaxys are on the bleeding edge of technology. Whether you know about specs or not, you know you're getting the top, most up to date device with a Galaxy. Until BlackBerry can add VALUE to its products, it will have a hard time pushing.
    eBud likes this.
    07-16-13 03:54 PM
  11. canu900's Avatar
    Well the blackberry a10 be faster than the z10

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 04:12 PM
  12. roydebatzen's Avatar
    Blackberry needs a new statement to make a difference in the phone market. To me Blackberry is like this ad:
    07-16-13 04:13 PM
  13. Sanjay Majithia's Avatar
    BlackBerry users aren't joe bob.. Simple.. We are not just the normal man or women off the street.. We are different unique individuals who have BB running through our veins.. I ain't no Joe Bob.
    07-16-13 04:23 PM
  14. JR0898's Avatar
    I wouldn't even say it was the specs that's the problem, it's the pricing. Most people wouldn't pay more, or just under what they would for an iphone or galaxy, simple as. When the z10 launched here in the uk, it cost more off contract than the s3 and 4s and for less than 20 more you could pickup a iphone 5 or a note 2.
    07-16-13 04:29 PM
  15. doggy10's Avatar
    Would you pay $300 extra for the phone with the better OS, but less apps?
    Not necessarily less apps since it will have jelly bean 4.2.2 and you will be able to run mostly all android apps as well as blackberry apps too so their options are actually pretty good.

    BlackBerry for life. Kick'n it with my Z10.
    Sanjay Majithia likes this.
    07-16-13 04:35 PM
  16. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    Well I agree with you, and that is a major sales problems for BlackBerry. Normal customers don't really know what they are purchasing (not to say have no idea) ...so most of them are just comparing specs and purchased the one that his apparently better for the price.
    But that,s what the OP is saying. And unfortunatly the vast majority of sales person are not pushing on BlackBerry side and simply did'nt take time to explain where BB is better, regarless of the price.
    Keep in mind that QNX architecture is a lot more robust and powerfull then any other phone architecture; QNX is not slowing down when an App is demanding a lot of processing capacities. (You check back the BBM Stress test done by CrackBerry, even with a constant "attact action" under BBM (more then 2000 contacts request within few minutes) (IM, BBM Voice, and even video call), the phone remain smooth with no lagging). So quad core is more likely not a requirement for OS10 whereas it might be required for an Android device in order to compensate.. BB OS is not impacted by the number of apps you have installed, whereas Android is... And we cant keep going..

    Normal Joe Bob cannot be aware of all these plus values, sales person rarely mentionned that to customers, ..so Joe Bob buy something else.

    Maybe you have already see that article: Forget to phone, it's the OS that really count
    BlackBerry 10: Forget about the phone - it's the OS that really counts | ZDNet
    I have friends of friends who have walked out of shops with a S3 just because it was recommended and another thought the Z10 was an Android device . Not everybody is doing their research properly and that's something BlackBerry needs to address.

    Regarding the OS.. I can't agree with you yet when running 10.1, although 10.2 looks promising. Yes, some native apps can handle the load, but there are still too many slow downs. It can take seconds for the SMS composer to show up on my device sometimes, just like some apps on Android. We have to remember that BB10 is NOT QNX. It's a distribution based on QNX, with a custom UI layer and apparently, BlackBerry still has some issues with making sure some processes don't slow down the UI, just like Android has.

    Regarding the article, I knew only about the distributed nature of the OS, but BlackBerry still hasn't used this power. It's a cool concept to be able to use external CPUs for tasks your phone can't handle, but what are the applications? Sending presentations to other PlayBooks is fancy, but what happens when people show up at the meeting with their BYOD device?

    The one thing we have to hope for is that the Aristo gets great numbers in benchmarks, in line with results taken from a Galaxy S4, proving that a dual-core is enough on BB10.
    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ke-gs4-829204/
    07-16-13 04:42 PM
  17. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    Not necessarily less apps since it will have jelly bean 4.2.2 and you will be able to run mostly all android apps as well as blackberry apps too so their options are actually pretty good.

    BlackBerry for life. Kick'n it with my Z10.
    I agree that the Android VM has really improved on recent 10.2 builds, but there are still not enough apps in BlackBerry World. Most of what I use has to be sideloaded. The masses doesn't sideload.
    07-16-13 04:45 PM
  18. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    Well the blackberry a10 be faster than the z10

    Posted via CB10
    Twice as fast
    07-16-13 04:46 PM
  19. dshusha's Avatar
    When i look at the new Nokia 1020 and see what it has to offer (and I am no great fan of Windows Phone OS) in comparison to what Blackberry currently plans .. then the choice for Joe Shmoe or Jim Slim will be simple ... (and it wont be an A10).
    07-16-13 05:09 PM
  20. NotGoodIMO's Avatar
    First, many people are saying masses don't care about specs. In fact, most people these days are quite technically savvy and those who don't have any clue ask their family and friends who have clue about these things. Bottom line is that Blackberry is behind and as much BB fans say Android sucks, it's not that bad at all. In fact, that's what Apple fan boys have been saying all along about Android and now Android is spreading like weed. Blackberry needs to get some hardware vendors on board if needs to survive and should focus on software side and may be only high end hardware devices and by that I mean really high end. Come on Blackberry, give me a reason to buy BB10 device. Put something which no one else has, may be 4 gig of ram or 15 mega pixel camera. With current specs for A10 , I will rather go for Lumia 1020 with whopping 41 megapixel camera.
    07-16-13 05:20 PM
  21. Jon Ryder's Avatar
    You guys are arguing a lot over specs that are nothing more than rumours :-/ Maybe wait with all the doom and gloom until BB actually releases the final specs :/

    JR
    07-16-13 05:42 PM
  22. Jakob Greve's Avatar
    What disturbs me is the ppi blackberry made a fuss of the importance of ppi launching the Z10 yet the A10 have lower ppi according to the leaked specs
    07-16-13 05:52 PM
  23. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    You guys are arguing a lot over specs that are nothing more than rumours :-/ Maybe wait with all the doom and gloom until BB actually releases the final specs :/

    JR
    Unless they launch it next year, specs can be confirmed with what's in OS 10.2.
    Chipset seems OK, but people seem to not like the 8MP camera (about which we don't know much) and the 720p screen, for ppi reasons.
    07-16-13 06:00 PM
  24. DStLouis's Avatar
    In my experience the sales rep has predetermined that the phone he has in his pocket is the phone the consumer should buy. Sales reps at my at&t store had no hands on experience or training with the Z10 when I walked in to buy 2 of them, yet he did his best to talk me out of purchasing a device he knew nothing about, except for rumor and bad press. Front line sales people have not helped BB at all and actually steer confused or novice buyers to the cell they would have for themselves.
    So BlackBerry should provide a device to most of the sales person then.

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 06:02 PM
  25. DStLouis's Avatar
    Although I don't think specs are as important as people make them out to be, I do believe that if you're going to do it, you should go ahead & do it big. Otherwise, you will be bombarded with reviews and posts about how lackluster your product is. If its not 1080p, they'll say "it should have been", if its not quad core, they'll complain about that. On one hand, I think maybe blackberry should consider going ahead and nipping it in the bud. On the other, I wonder "Why make it quad core if it's only using dual..." and us, economics students will know: driving up costs without increasing benefit will lower efficency!

    Just my thoughts...

    *Sidenote, ppl buy iPhones and Galaxy phones not so much for the specs, but b/c of the track record. iPhone is a good phone & a top phone. If you want a phone that will be around for the duration of your contract without regretting the purchase, you will get it. Galaxys are on the bleeding edge of technology. Whether you know about specs or not, you know you're getting the top, most up to date device with a Galaxy. Until BlackBerry can add VALUE to its products, it will have a hard time pushing.
    Funny because BlackBerry has been there for longer time then any other smartphone on the market.

    Other thing, my feeling is even if BlackBerry comes out with a device with all top up to date hardware (bigger, faster CPU, more memory, higher camera specs...), they will still have to face the existing marketing/sales issue.


    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 06:11 PM
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