07-18-13 09:47 PM
58 123
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  1. RECOOL's Avatar
    It is not bad for BB users.Its bad because of the target audience its intended foe.This right A phone for me is money down the drain for me ,this money for this device is would be spent better elsewhere.But we'll see what are the final specs and consumer response to this.
    MasterOfBinary likes this.
    07-17-13 11:09 AM
  2. sunsetblow's Avatar
    It is not bad for BB users.Its bad because of the target audience its intended foe.
    This.

    I wish there were 4 million users on CB that would all buy the phone and then we really could say "f*** the regular consumers" but that's simply not the case... the impression you might be getting from reading the boards here is that the A10 is good enough and it'll be bought.... by.... I don't know, max 200 people from these here parts?

    How can BB target the most important audience... the idio* general population? Sad to say it, but it's true.

    Yes, specs "don't matter," but to the idio* general population, the higher the number, the better. Simply put. No argument.

    I hope to high heaven that BB can spin this "okay" phone right in their marketing. Please.

    ETA: Wow! CB edits out the word i d i o t?
    07-17-13 01:26 PM
  3. LWKING's Avatar
    I agree with your first too statements, but you're wrong about the android one. The Galaxy S3, HTC one X, DROID Razrs, etc run very smooth and well on dual core. It's just the fact that quad core is faster and will run better which is why people want to see the Aristo with it not to mention quad core is becoming the norm.

    Posted via CB10
    1. Quad core is NOT faster. The extra cores help you to multitask better. Since QNX was designed for high risk, low failure systems, it can multitask innately. Therefore, a quad core CPU is NOT required for BB10. In addition to that, BB10 and the apps designed for it probably aren't even made to utilize the extra cores. It's wasted hardware. The performance boost is all in your head. Now, if you do a little googling, you'll see that a combination of the CPU and the GPU is what really yields the best improvements. You'll also see that the best returns in mobile come from a quad core GPU, not a quad core CPU. Before you claim that anyone is wrong, you better be able to back it up. I'll admit to being wrong when I am, but this isn't one of those times.

    Perhaps my standards of performance are a little higher than most, but I don't consider the phones you listed good enough experience wise. The S3 has the same processor and RAM as the Z10. Which phone do you think has more lag complaints? Which phone is it common for to slow down after you've owned it for several months? That would be the famous S3.
    Unbiased Tech likes this.
    07-17-13 05:19 PM
  4. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    This is what the A10 should be like!! This guy stole the words right out of my mouth

    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...1/#post8841550

    I'd like it and thank it 1,000,000 times. Definitely the best thread on these forums at the moment.
    07-17-13 05:54 PM
  5. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    Honestly, most of the people who doesn't know specs or the complication of it aim for the higher numbers, Quad Cores, 400 megapixel and Those Blah Blah Blah, consumers won't bother to research further more on the power but when the numbers get high, it means it's the best. who wants to pour hard earned money on outdated specs.
    Exactly. That's why AMD in the Athlon days named their processors 3600+, 4800+ etc. Because of the architecture a 2.0GHz Athlon could be equivalent to (e.g.) a 3GHz Intel Pentium, so they would market it as 3000+. That way people would look at it as having similar specs. If people knew they were getting a 2GHz processor instead of a 3GHz one they likely wouldn't buy it.

    Same with dual core and quad core. Even if there isn't any noticeable performance difference, people will think they're getting a faster phone with a quad core. On the plus side, they don't have a completely obsolete phone in 6 months.
    07-17-13 06:38 PM
  6. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    1. Quad core is NOT faster. The extra cores help you to multitask better. Since QNX was designed for high risk, low failure systems, it can multitask innately. Therefore, a quad core CPU is NOT required for BB10. In addition to that, BB10 and the apps designed for it probably aren't even made to utilize the extra cores. It's wasted hardware. The performance boost is all in your head. Now, if you do a little googling, you'll see that a combination of the CPU and the GPU is what really yields the best improvements. You'll also see that the best returns in mobile come from a quad core GPU, not a quad core CPU. Before you claim that anyone is wrong, you better be able to back it up. I'll admit to being wrong when I am, but this isn't one of those times.


    That is completely off base. First, if extra cores don't do anything because of QNX's multitasking abilities, why does the Z10 have two? Is one of them sitting around twiddling its thumbs the entire time? No, QNX can benefit from multiple cores because it can dispatch separate threads to separate cores and balance the load across multiple cores. As long as there's more than one thread running (and I'm sure there are 20+ even without any apps open) it will benefit somewhat.

    You say we'll have to back up our statements, but where did you back up your statement that the GPU is more important? The CPU and GPU are both important, just for different reasons. And if you have several apps running in the background your CPU is going to have to take care of them, so CPU cores would help.

    Unless you back up your statement that BB10 can't utilize multiple cores or that QNX is able to perform magic with its multithreading abilities.
    Tre Lawrence likes this.
    07-17-13 06:54 PM
  7. LWKING's Avatar


    That is completely off base. First, if extra cores don't do anything because of QNX's multitasking abilities, why does the Z10 have two? Is one of them sitting around twiddling its thumbs the entire time? No, QNX can benefit from multiple cores because it can dispatch separate threads to separate cores and balance the load across multiple cores. As long as there's more than one thread running (and I'm sure there are 20+ even without any apps open) it will benefit somewhat.

    You say we'll have to back up our statements, but where did you back up your statement that the GPU is more important? The CPU and GPU are both important, just for different reasons. And if you have several apps running in the background your CPU is going to have to take care of them, so CPU cores would help.

    Unless you back up your statement that BB10 can't utilize multiple cores or that QNX is able to perform magic with its multithreading abilities.
    Where did I ever say that extra cores don't do anything? I said quad core wasn't required for BB10 lol! Your post is ridiculous.. Anyways, I wasn't even referring to you. It's not nice to pick fights buddy! I will give you this though What is GPU Computing? | High-Performance Computing | NVIDIA | NVIDIA and this Meet the Power Behind the BlackBerry Tablet OS

    and for those of you that don't like reading, here are some quotes.

    "GPUs have evolved to the point where many real-world applications are easily implemented on them and run significantly faster than on multi-core systems."

    "QNX Neutrino is a multi-threaded RTOS optimized for the latest multi-core processors. Its field-proven implementation of symmetric multi-processing (SMP) allows multiple applications to run in parallel while extracting the maximum performance from every processing core."


    I'm done here.
    Last edited by LWKING; 07-17-13 at 09:42 PM.
    07-17-13 09:26 PM
  8. irwan ari wibowo1's Avatar
    Where did I ever say that extra cores don't do anything? I said quad core wasn't required for BB10 lol! Your post is ridiculous.. Anyways, I wasn't even referring to you. It's not nice to pick fights buddy! I will give you this though What is GPU Computing? | High-Performance Computing | NVIDIA | NVIDIA and this Meet the Power Behind the BlackBerry Tablet OS

    and for those of you that don't like reading, here are some quotes.

    "GPUs have evolved to the point where many real-world applications are easily implemented on them and run significantly faster than on multi-core systems."

    "QNX Neutrino is a multi-threaded RTOS optimized for the latest multi-core processors. Its field-proven implementation of symmetric multi-processing (SMP) allows multiple applications to run in parallel while extracting the maximum performance from every processing core."


    I'm done here.
    +1

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-13 09:42 PM
  9. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    Where did I ever say that extra cores don't do anything? I said quad core wasn't required for BB10 lol! Your post is ridiculous.. Anyways, I wasn't even referring to you. It's not nice to pick fights buddy!
    I'm not trying to pick fights but it just annoys me when people spread false information and argue that it's a fact. Since you said "The performance boost is all in your head." I assumed you meant extra cores don't do anything. My bad.

    "GPUs have evolved to the point where many real-world applications are easily implemented on them and run significantly faster than on multi-core systems."

    "QNX Neutrino is a multi-threaded RTOS optimized for the latest multi-core processors. Its field-proven implementation of symmetric multi-processing (SMP) allows multiple applications to run in parallel while extracting the maximum performance from every processing core."


    I'm done here.
    Well since you're done here it's probably pointless, but the GPU quote is most likely not applicable to BB10 because it doesn't support OpenCL yet and I've gotten conflicting responses about whether it will in the near future. Also of note is the QNX quote where it says "optimized for the latest multi-core processors" - I'm sure a quad-core CPU with BB10 would be pretty slick, especially with a lot of apps running at once.
    07-17-13 11:07 PM
  10. letmein13's Avatar
    If specs don't sell phones, please answer my questions


    Have you seen a phone company release 2 new phones with identical hardware configuration?
    Would you pay 600 dollars to replace an old phone with a new one when both of them have the same phone hardware configuration while one has OS 6.1 and another has OS 6.1.2 or 6.2 or 7.0?

    Buying a phone is like buying a computer. When you spend 2000 dollars to buy a Dell computer, you don't spend this amount for MS windows 8 pro. Windows 8 pro OEM only costs 130 dollars. The more money you spend for a computer or a phone, the better your phone or computer is.
    07-18-13 12:29 AM
  11. LWKING's Avatar
    I'm not trying to pick fights but it just annoys me when people spread false information and argue that it's a fact. Since you said "The performance boost is all in your head." I assumed you meant extra cores don't do anything. My bad.



    Well since you're done here it's probably pointless, but the GPU quote is most likely not applicable to BB10 because it doesn't support OpenCL yet and I've gotten conflicting responses about whether it will in the near future. Also of note is the QNX quote where it says "optimized for the latest multi-core processors" - I'm sure a quad-core CPU with BB10 would be pretty slick, especially with a lot of apps running at once.
    No worries, I'm not done here haha. I was "in the moment." I totally get where you're coming from though. A Snapdragon 800 on BB10 would make the A10 destroy any flagship android device for a long time. I mentioned it in one of my previous posts, but I don't remember which one it was. That being said, the A10 experience should still be better than what most people are expecting.

    As for OpenCL, I'm assuming this is you? https://twitter.com/BlackBerryDev/st...97264843350016

    Small world
    07-18-13 01:27 AM
  12. LWKING's Avatar
    If specs don't sell phones, please answer my questions


    Have you seen a phone company release 2 new phones with identical hardware configuration?
    Would you pay 600 dollars to replace an old phone with a new one when both of them have the same phone hardware configuration while one has OS 6.1 and another has OS 6.1.2 or 6.2 or 7.0?

    Buying a phone is like buying a computer. When you spend 2000 dollars to buy a Dell computer, you don't spend this amount for MS windows 8 pro. Windows 8 pro OEM only costs 130 dollars. The more money you spend for a computer or a phone, the better your phone or computer is.
    I have not seen this and I don't think I ever will. Specs are updated because they need to be. It's just a natural progression of things.
    07-18-13 01:38 AM
  13. mmcpher's Avatar
    It will be faster and smoother than this Z10 (which I love) that I'm typing on, so of course it's not going to be "bad". But the leaked specs as premarkrting certainly hasn't been good for that purpose.

    Let's see -- complicated technical arguments (though arguably persuasive ones) are needed to explain why less is more for CPU/GPU multitasking, the large screen resolution and the stingy camera. Not to worry because people buying a large screen flagship device are seldom interested in such obscurities. When I lay out my premium dollars for that type of device, the last thing I would be interested in was how fast, clear and smooth the thing is. So long as someone has argued away the basic math and Physics, I'm set.

    What would be really nice would be a spec sheet that did all the arguing for the device. Something that would set the market drooling just by gazing at it. The experts could then chip in with pronouncements of superfluous overkill. With every device I've overbought on the spec side over the last 30 years, the developers have somehow found a use for the overkill within a couple of months of release. And I kept my devices productive far longer than those who bought on the "what do you need all that for" like.

    Remember the Playbook? Not that those specs on release were embarrassing for that point in time, but some worried then that it wasn't future-proofed enough and were shouted down with arguments about QNX and architecture and other things similarly beyond my ken. How do you like it now, gentlemen?

    Posted via CB10
    toneytone likes this.
    07-18-13 02:22 AM
  14. letmein13's Avatar
    BB need to learn a lesson about not repackaging their new phones with cosmetic changes and asking consumers to pay top dollar for them.

    I'd tell BB sales representatives to get lost if their 700 dollar A10 had the following specs: 5" screen (no HD), a slightly bigger battery, and a quadcore GPU. I consider these specs cosmetic changes .No freaking way. Not in my widest dream.

    If A10 came out with these specs, BB should not call it a "top tier" phone in the current phone market.
    07-18-13 06:08 AM
  15. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    If specs don't sell phones, please answer my questions


    Have you seen a phone company release 2 new phones with identical hardware configuration?
    Would you pay 600 dollars to replace an old phone with a new one when both of them have the same phone hardware configuration while one has OS 6.1 and another has OS 6.1.2 or 6.2 or 7.0?

    Buying a phone is like buying a computer. When you spend 2000 dollars to buy a Dell computer, you don't spend this amount for MS windows 8 pro. Windows 8 pro OEM only costs 130 dollars. The more money you spend for a computer or a phone, the better your phone or computer is.
    Are you saying that the Z10 and the A10 have identical hardware configurations?
    07-18-13 06:13 AM
  16. letmein13's Avatar
    Are you saying that the Z10 and the A10 have identical hardware configurations?
    Would you pay 700 dollar for an A10 if it had the following specs: 5" screen, a slightly bigger battery, and a quadcore GPU? I consider these specs cosmetic changes when we have the same 2GB RAM, 16GB hard drive, and 8MP camera .
    07-18-13 06:56 AM
  17. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Would you pay 700 dollar for an A10 if it had the following specs: 5" screen, a slightly bigger battery, and a quadcore GPU? I consider these specs cosmetic changes when we have the same 2GB RAM, 16GB hard drive, and 8MP camera .
    So a faster CPU, a much improved GPU with more features and a larger screen are just cosmetic? So in that case, you must think that the iPhone has had nothing but cosmetic changes too?

    I feel that you will never be happy.

    So BB has released the price of the A10? I didn't know they are charging $700.
    07-18-13 07:12 AM
  18. letmein13's Avatar
    So a faster CPU, a much improved GPU with more features and a larger screen are just cosmetic? So in that case, you must think that the iPhone has had nothing but cosmetic changes too?

    I feel that you will never be happy.

    So BB has released the price of the A10? I didn't know they are charging $700.
    A faster dual core CPU for A10? How fast is it if you compare it with that of z10? 200MHz?

    If I overclocked a z10's CPU like a computer CPU, i'd get it little higher than your pathetic A10's CPU speed. Yes, I would do it for you FOR FREE so that you can continue using Z10.

    What more features for A10 were you talking about?
    07-18-13 07:21 AM
  19. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    What more features for A10 were you talking about?
    That was for the GPU. The GPU is more advanced and has more features than the Z10 GPU. We are talking hardware are we not?

    It is also 4 X more powerful than the previous gpu.
    07-18-13 07:26 AM
  20. tomsobon's Avatar
    Do you guys forget about the 8mp camera ?
    This is ridiculous, the camera on the Q10, Z10 is not bad, but let's be honest, it could be a lot better.........

    Still can't believe it

    Posted via CB10
    07-18-13 07:43 AM
  21. PhilipDZ's Avatar
    OK folks, there's been a LOT of complaining on the forums about the leaked specs of the new Z series (A10 codename) device.

    Here's my question and I ask you to honestly consider this. Are the specs really THAT bad?

    Six core unit comprising 2 x 1.7Ghz Krait CPU cores and 4 x GPU cores.
    2GB Ram
    1280*720 pixel 5.0" Screen
    2800Mah Battery.
    BB10.2 Operating System

    Call me easily pleased, but that actually sounds pretty decent to me.

    I want to stress the CPU/GPU combination here because a lot of people are getting their knickers in a knot over the dual processing cores while completely ignoring the fact that the A10 has been fitted with a Quad Core GPU. With mobile devices relying so heavily on GPU these days, it makes perfect sense to increase the GPU count even in place of CPU count.

    For the A10, this would be a perfect combination. BB10 is an amazing operating system and one that could easily take advantage of a powerful GPU processing system. Smooth, liquid graphics and application switching using the GPU cores and freeing up your CPU cores for other work. Launch an application and once again, use those GPU cores to render images, video, whatever.

    By upgrading the CPU cores to 1.7Ghz, AND adding 4 GPU cores, I think BlackBerry have produced an amazing device.

    Now, let's look at the rumours for Apple's next iPhone:

    New iPhone 5S photos appear, specs hint at 12 MP camera, higher CPU clock, quad-core GPU

    What's that? Dual CPU and Quad GPU? Could it be that Apple is aiming for the same setup? Interesting also to note that Apple is also rumoured to be launching with 2GB ram - the same as the A10.

    I really don't think the A10 is that bad. In fact, I'm brazen enough to say it's really awesome. Dual CPU, Quad GPU cores? Heck yes.

    Now let's wait to see the other factors which can't be measured on a spec sheet. How about Battery life? How about how the device feels in the hand? How about the typing experience with BlackBerry's awesome virtual keyboard on an even larger 5" canvas?

    I'm excited about this device. I think the negativity is being overplayed. I think we're going to be surprised at how powerful the CPU/GPU combination really is for real life use.

    Only time will tell
    Yes it is that bad when you have it sitting next to a S4

    Posted via CB10
    07-18-13 08:48 AM
  22. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Yes it is that bad when you have it sitting next to a S4

    Posted via CB10
    And if you use or try the two phones, do you see a big difference in performance?
    07-18-13 09:32 AM
  23. mmcpher's Avatar
    And if you use or try the two phones, do you see a big difference in performance?
    That's the thing -- there is a perceptible difference sometimes notwithstanding that it's difficult to measure while you're standing in a store. So you tend to then look for the spec card.

    Posted via CB10
    07-18-13 09:53 AM
  24. LWKING's Avatar
    That's the thing -- there is a perceptible difference sometimes notwithstanding that it's difficult to measure while you're standing in a store. So you tend to then look for the spec card.

    Posted via CB10
    Idk, my little sister would buy the "prettier" one.



    This is no disrespect to my sister. I know many other that would choose similarly. Maybe you guys aren't as well versed as you may think in this area.. I see a lot of the same and it's incredible how many experts we have on this forum.
    07-18-13 09:58 AM
  25. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Idk, my little sister would buy the "prettier" one.



    This is no disrespect to my sister. I know many other that would choose similarly. Maybe you guys aren't as well versed as you may think in this area.. I see a lot of the same and it's incredible how many experts we have on this forum.
    Take a poll with all the people in your office. Ask them what they specs of their smartphone are. I doubt few will be able to know a single spec other than possibly storage.

    Don't poll friends or people in the IT department.

    P.S. One of the ladies in the office wanted a Blackberry with a keyboard and she liked the look of the white one. That was her requirements. She didn't even know they were called Q10s. To her, it was the "new" Blackberry with the keyboard.
    07-18-13 11:00 AM
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